If the investment class is doing better than it ever has, why has job growth been slow?

[The Rabbi]

so unions should be destroyed to pacify the randians? it took a lot of years for workers to stop the way they were treated and the conditions under which they worked.

Given the reality of today, unions have a necessary place in the economy - there's no denying that. The adversarial role is too well established.

I muse on possibilities and goals...

I don't like the concept behind incorporated unions performing an adversarial role in corporations. There becomes a certain self perpetuation necessity in the role of the incorporated union, and the relationship between capital and labor remains adversarial to feed it.

I think that given the choice between buying the companies that we work for, and forming corporations to hire lawyers to beat concessions from the companies that we work for, paying union dues is short-sighted and costs jobs in the long run.

We, as a society need to begin to think in terms less adversarial and litigious, and more in terms of community and company, with loyalty in both enforced by ownership in both.

Something like National Socialism, perhaps?

Label Schmabel - nobody knows what that means.

Give me real solutions, like a call for fair and simple taxes and balanced public budgets.

Conservatives are n favor of both those things. Liberals oppose them.
How about trying freedom?

 

[sameech]

The current state of the stock market has absolutely nothing to do with the Bush tax cuts and everything to do with Obama's and the Fed's current policies.

When people with money can borrow it virtually for free and then get a really good return in the market why would they risk that same money on new business ventures in an economy that is barely growing at 1%?

Well I'll be damned, skull finally accidentally told the truth.

Well no shit skull. if you actually recognize that the supposed top 1% "job creators" are actually just borrowing money to make money with in the markets, why in the fuck do you and people like you care if they pay a higher percentage in taxes than they currently do?

YOU ADMIT that even with their Bush tax cuts they didn't create those promised jobs. They just took those cheap bailout dollars after the Bush collapse and spent them in the stock market. What a job creation strategy that was.

And you were correct twice. The Bush stock market sure didn't look like the market now.

I didn't admit anything about the Bush tax cuts other than they have nothing to do with the current state of the market.

And in case you haven't understood my stance on taxes.

IDGAF how much anyone makes. I do not believe that just because a person happens to make more than another that a higher percentage of his money should be confiscated by the government.

And I never called any segment of society "job creators" that's your schtick not mine

your use of language is wrong. the tax structure is not confiscatory.

you haven't as yet addressed why the top 1% pays a smaller PERCENTAGE of what they make in taxes than the middle and working classes. you need to address that issue. and flat tax is not it nor is a VAT which takes a much higher percentage from working people than the wealthy.

Of courser I have you just don't listen.

They get to pay less because we have an unfair tax code written by corrupt bought and paid for politicians.

And confiscatory is and adjective confiscated is a verb. The government takes money by force that is confiscation.

I've mentioned to you several times that the corrupt pols are screwing people over by taxing all the gains in retirement accounts as regular income as well but you don't seem to have your panties in a twist over that.

It's not the 1% that are screwing you over it's the assholes you elect to represent you.

When I tell people that as a white middle class male who doesn't need any aspect of my life micromanaged by the government, I am represented as well in the US Congress as I am the British House of Lords, they think I am joking. I am not.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Hello the left encouraging millions of illegals to pour across our border ring a bell? Hello earth to liberals pull your heads out.

Define "encouraging". Please.

Please be as specific as possible, links are always helpful.

Encourage means to promote, to work for, to cheerlead for.
And yes, the administration has done that with their illegal refusal to enforce Federal immigration laws. It was in all the papers.

Do you mean like the immigration law signed by GW Bush that says no kids are to be deported back to countries that don't border the USA without first seeing a federal judge?

It took both parties to create this mess and there is no one-party solution.

_______________________


Politicians promoting illegal immigration and leading cheers for illegal immigrants?

That's a video everyone should see! Can you please post a link?​

 

[The Rabbi]

Hello the left encouraging millions of illegals to pour across our border ring a bell? Hello earth to liberals pull your heads out.

Define "encouraging". Please.

Please be as specific as possible, links are always helpful.

Encourage means to promote, to work for, to cheerlead for.
And yes, the administration has done that with their illegal refusal to enforce Federal immigration laws. It was in all the papers.

Do you mean like the immigration law signed by GW Bush that says no kids are to be deported back to countries that don't border the USA without first seeing a federal judge?

It took both parties to create this mess and there is no one-party solution.

_______________________


Politicians promoting illegal immigration and leading cheers for illegal immigrants?

That's a video everyone should see! Can you please post a link?​

BOOSH! It's all youv'e got.
Actually Obama declared he would not enforce immigration laws in many instances, that being one.
The Democrats are the obstacle to immigration reform, seeing millions of new voters they can sign up for welfare etc.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Give me real solutions, like a call for fair and simple taxes and balanced public budgets.

Conservatives are n favor of both those things. Liberals oppose them.

Speaking of video I'd like to see!

 

[The Rabbi]

Give me real solutions, like a call for fair and simple taxes and balanced public budgets.

Conservatives are n favor of both those things. Liberals oppose them.

Speaking of video I'd like to see!

Try Youtube.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The more ownership taken in 'The Means of Production' by The Average American Joe and The Average American Jane, the better for our collective future.

True Story!

So let them start their own business. Moving merchandise isn't skilled labor. No one, including liberals, especially liberals, are interested in paying someone $50,000 a year to handle packages.

why would you say "especially liberals" when rightwingnuts have done nothing but drive down wages?

Hello the left encouraging millions of illegals to pour across our border ring a bell? Hello earth to liberals pull your heads out.

Empty hyperbole much?

 

[AVG-JOE]

BOOSH! It's all youv'e got.
Actually Obama declared he would not enforce immigration laws in many instances, that being one.
The Democrats are the obstacle to immigration reform, seeing millions of new voters they can sign up for welfare etc.

How cliche.

Are you saying that the law currently letting hundreds of kids per day melt in to the US population WASN'T signed by Bush Jr.?

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Give me real solutions, like a call for fair and simple taxes and balanced public budgets.

Conservatives are n favor of both those things. Liberals oppose them.

Speaking of video I'd like to see!

Try Youtube.

Hey, Dude... you're the one making the outlandish claim. It's up to you to bring the evidence to the table.

 

[AVG-JOE]

.

The stock market is not the economy.

Amazing how many people don't know that.

.

But with more widespread ownership of the means of production it could be.

Sad how many people don't know that.

 

[Mac1958]

.

The stock market is not the economy.

Amazing how many people don't know that.

.

But with more widespread ownership of the means of production it could be.

Sad how many people don't know that.

Could you get specific on that?

.

 

[The Rabbi]

BOOSH! It's all youv'e got.
Actually Obama declared he would not enforce immigration laws in many instances, that being one.
The Democrats are the obstacle to immigration reform, seeing millions of new voters they can sign up for welfare etc.

How cliche.

Are you saying that the law currently letting hundreds of kids per day melt in to the US population WASN'T signed by Bush Jr.?

​

Are you saying Obama's refusal to enforce immigration law hasnt resulted in a flood of illegals? Because that is the case. Bush has nothing to do with it.

 

[The Rabbi]

.

The stock market is not the economy.

Amazing how many people don't know that.

.

But with more widespread ownership of the means of production it could be.

Sad how many people don't know that.

Could you get specific on that?

.

From those most able to afford it to those most needy.
Or something like that.

 

[AVG-JOE]

.

The stock market is not the economy.

Amazing how many people don't know that.

.

you're correct. it's a reflection of the wealth of the investor class.

that said, we aren't exactly putting forth policies designed to increase job growth.

when the economy crashed when bush was president, we should have had a jobs program. the right has blocked every effort to create the types of jobs that build infrastructure (which we need anyway) in favor of rewarding coroporations for off-shoring jobs.

True dat!!

I would MUCH rather see We, The Peeps spending money borrowed from China on bridges, roads, schools and other infrastructure than spending money borrowed from China on more weapons and security.

 

[The Rabbi]

.

The stock market is not the economy.

Amazing how many people don't know that.

.

you're correct. it's a reflection of the wealth of the investor class.

that said, we aren't exactly putting forth policies designed to increase job growth.

when the economy crashed when bush was president, we should have had a jobs program. the right has blocked every effort to create the types of jobs that build infrastructure (which we need anyway) in favor of rewarding coroporations for off-shoring jobs.

True dat!!

I would MUCH rather see We, The Peeps spending money borrowed from China on bridges, roads, schools and other infrastructure than spending money borrowed from China on more weapons and security.

Because bridges to nowhere and airports for no one contribute to economic growth, right?

 

[blackhawk]

You know job growth might be slow due to all the new regulations the Obama administration with the help of the EPA has placed on business. You could also factor in the coming employer mandate of Obamacare as employers wait to see the impact that has on them.

 

[AVG-JOE]

It's not the 1% that are screwing you over it's the assholes you elect to represent you.

This is true. The role of the 1% is to pay for the campaigns and the 'after politics' plans of the people you elect to screw you over.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Because bridges to nowhere and airports for no one contribute to economic growth, right?

Possibly. Probably more productive in the long term than producing weapons and bombs, but a better use of borrowed money would be on bridges to somewhere and airports that get used.

Makes me look forward to a political landscape built on fair and simple instead of complicated and corrupt.
​

Let's make it an action item to call for an end to Gerrymandering and things that foment extremism then, eh?

`​

 

[jillian]

.

The stock market is not the economy.

Amazing how many people don't know that.

.

you're correct. it's a reflection of the wealth of the investor class.

that said, we aren't exactly putting forth policies designed to increase job growth.

when the economy crashed when bush was president, we should have had a jobs program. the right has blocked every effort to create the types of jobs that build infrastructure (which we need anyway) in favor of rewarding coroporations for off-shoring jobs.

True dat!!

I would MUCH rather see We, The Peeps spending money borrowed from China on bridges, roads, schools and other infrastructure than spending money borrowed from China on more weapons and security.

i'd rather see the top 1% pay their fair share. until baby bush no leader in history cut taxes during wartime. i'm personally tired of hearing the wingers say we're broke when they just have to stop waging permanent war and collect the taxes they're supposed to from the top 1% and then use those taxes to fix what's broken.

you can't have a consumer economy where consumers can't afford goods and services.

 

[AVG-JOE]

.

The stock market is not the economy.

Amazing how many people don't know that.

.

But with more widespread ownership of the means of production it could be.

Sad how many people don't know that.

Could you get specific on that?

.

What if, instead of bitching about the poor working conditions at Wal Mart and threatening to purchase a union to hire lawyers to fight with the means-of-production tit they are currently suckling a living from, the employees formed a club and started buying every voting share of Wal Mart stock that they could afford?

How different would this country be today if the workers in American heavy industry had spent their union dues buying their companies?

`​