CDZ If our politicians and bureaucrats can't operate the VA...how can they handle 320 million patients?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by 2aguy, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    The insurance companies lobby for and buy themselves such laws, and like all the other business friendly legislation they even write most of the bills themselves. Most people never read bills or even bother to keep track of of what their pols do, so obviously they're fine with this, and also the vast majority of business friendly legislation, so it's clear the pols aren't just popping up out of nowhere and just arbitrarily doing their own thing, so the semantics game fails. And, like I said, the VA works for a lot of people just fine, so obviously if it isn't working in some region then the problem is the people in that region and those they elect.

    And, I see I forgot to point out the reasons these insurance companies can set up these state monopolies is because of the 'states' rights' functions of governments, not the Feds; corporations are state-created entities, not Federal ones, so it's another case of right wing Constitutional literalism contradicting itself re 'free enterprise' and the like. If one attempts to 'reform' that and allow competition from other states, then one is going to have to nullify some 'states' rights' legal prerogatives to do so. Think that isn't a problem? ... The usual ad hoc handwaves don't work in this case, or mosto thers for that matter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  2. Dragonlady
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    The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

    What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

    However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.
     
  3. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?
     
  4. eflatminor
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    eflatminor Classical Liberal

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    It's insane is what it is. The VA is run by the government soup to nuts, and the lefties want that shit for all of us. Insane.

    Were we to have a free market in healthcare (ha...), it would be simple thing to honor our vets with a straight forward benefit. Congress simply creates a law that says to all healthcare providers, send any vet bills to DC. If you charge the taxpayers more than market rates, you loose reimbursement privileges for vets. Simple.

    As it stands, the markets for healthcare and health insurance is a clusterfuck. Thanks central planners from both parties.
     
  5. Dragonlady
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    I'm a Canadian living in Canada. I've had 100% government funded health care since I was a child. It's a whole lot BETTER than the mess you have.

    Medicare and the VA are function a whole lot better than your private insurance system, and they're a whole lot cheaper.
     
  6. Toronado3800
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    No, I want all the freeloaders to be forced to carry some form of health insurance since the kinder/gentler folks can't throw those who can't pay out of the hospital.

    As a trade off for forcing people to use their products, and a nod towards the new problem Ancient Greece did not have, I don't mind regulations forcing insurance companies to treat those with pre-existing conditions decently.
     
  7. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Cheaper....? Only because the do not pay the Doctors the actual cost of the treatment. They pay only a portion of the fee and stick the Doctors with the rest, that is why a lot of Doctors do not Accept those patients......and the Canadian healthcare system is collapsing like all the other social welfare state healthcare systems.....
     
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  8. Dragonlady
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    The "actual cost of treatment", does that include insurance company administration fees, CEO salaries and profits for the shareholders? The rest of the world does it better, and cheaper than the US, and we cover ALL of our citizens - every single one of them. Everyone gets the same quality of basic treatment, and we don't have co-pays, paperwork, or bills from our doctor. There are more expensive additions you can make, but no one is forced to use emergency rooms or "free clinics" for care.

    The Canadian health care system is strong and well maintained. The proof is that Canadians are outliving Americans, and that Canadians are universally reporting high satisfaction rates with their health care, as is most of the rest of the First World. When Americans complain about health care, it isn't Medicare they complain about. They complain about insurance companies denying coverage, of mountains of paperwork fighting insurance company denials, high co-pays, pre-approvals for treatment and the myriad ways for-profit health care adds to the costs and stress of illness. None of which the rest of the world deals with under single payer.

    In the USA before Obamacare, 45,000 people per year died because of lack of access to health care. But since these were poor people, or people who had "maxxed out" their coverages, most Americans don't care.

    But keep believing the lies your for-profit medical industrial complex feeds you about the horrors of health care in other countries. The rest of the world can't believe you're so gullible. OTOH, you elected Trump so your level of intelligence and gullibility is highly suspect.
     
  9. 2aguy
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    The rest of the world is watching their healthcare systems crumble...they cant afford them...and the quality sucks....
     
  10. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Yeah...keep telling yourself that....

    Canada....

    If Universal Health Care Is The Goal, Don't Copy Canada

    Amongst industrialized countries -- members of the OECD -- with universal health care, Canada has the second most expensive health care system as a share of the economy after adjusting for age. This is not necessarily a problem, however, depending on the value received for such spending. As countries become richer, citizens may choose to allocate a larger portion of their income to health care. However, such expenditures are a problem when they are not matched by value.
    The most visible manifestation of Canada’s failing health care system are wait times for health care services. In 2013, Canadians, on average, faced a four and a half month wait for medically necessary treatment after referral by a general practitioner. This wait time is almost twice as long as it was in 1993 when national wait times were first measured.
    --------

    Long wait times in Canada have also been observed for basic diagnostic imaging technologies that Americans take for granted, which are crucial for determining the severity of a patient’s condition. In 2013, the average wait time for an MRI was over two months, while Canadians needing a CT scan waited for almost a month.

    These wait times are not simply “minor inconveniences.” Patients experience physical pain and suffering, mental anguish, and lost economic productivity while waiting for treatment. One recent estimate (2013) found that the value of time lost due to medical wait times in Canada amounted to approximately $1,200 per patient.

    There is also considerable evidence indicating that excessive wait times lead to poorer health outcomes and in some cases, death. Dr. Brian Day, former head of the Canadian Medical Association recently noted that “[d]elayed care often transforms an acute and potentially reversible illness or injury into a chronic, irreversible condition that involves permanent disability.”

    And more on Canada...


    The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care

    Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

    When Aucoin appealed to an official ombudsman, the Ontario government claimed that her treatment was unproven and that she had gone to an unaccredited clinic. But the FDA in the U.S. had approved Erbitux, and her clinic was a cancer center affiliated with a prominent Catholic hospital in Buffalo. This January, the ombudsman ruled in Aucoin’s favor, awarding her the cost of treatment. She represents a dramatic new trend in Canadian health-care advocacy: finding the treatment you need in another country, and then fighting Canadian bureaucrats (and often suing) to get them to pick up the tab.

    And the truth.......that Canadians don't see until it is too late.....

    My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the sta
    ndard of care was four weeks.
     

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