If Jefferson founded the Republican Party what place do Democrats have in America?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You asked for a source. You did not say when. .

dear, I asked for a primary source, not a liberal source! Do you take the bet or continue to run away with your liberal tail between your legs????



5th Congress (1797-1799)
Majority Party: Federalist (22 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (10 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 32

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6th Congress (1799-1801)

Majority Party: Federalist (22 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (10 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 32

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7th Congress (1801-1803)

Majority Party: Republican (17 seats)

Minority Party: Federalist (15 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Vacant: 2

Total Seats: 34

"Historians do not agree on the details surrounding the origin of Parties. Some believe that Jefferson forged the Republican party from coalition of existing state and local parties"....[in the 1790's].

Page 31, Political Parties in America by Robert Huckshorn( most popular Political Science text on parties in USA.


"Although people were still deeply ambivalent about political parties, although one party did not necessarily recognize the legitimacy of the other, and although men on both sides were nostalgic- at one time or another- for the imaginary golden age of political harmony, few people could be found in the early 1790's who believed the parties did not exist. The parties had names: Federalist and Republican."

- Susan Dunn, Jefferson's Second Revolution.


"In referring to political parties I have adopted the names which the respective parties used in self-designation. Thus the Jeffersonian party has been referred to throughout as the Republican Party. This name came into use early in the 1790's among persons who considered themselves of a common political "interest", and the term "Republican interest" was generally used until it was replaced by the more definite "Republican Party".

The Jeffersonian Republicans( the formation of Party organization (1789-1801) by Noble E. Cunningham,Jr.


-During a conciliatory moment at his Inauguration Jefferson said: "today we are all Republicans, we are all Federalists." (referring to the two majors parties at the time)
We have called by different names brethren of the same principle. We are all Republicans, we are all Federalists. If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
- When Jefferson won the election of 1800 the National Gazette headline was, "Complete triumph of Republican firmness over the "obstinacy" of the Aristocrats"! ( what Republicans called big government Federalists)

 

[regent]

You might compare John Locke's thoughts on property as compared toJefferson's. Locke was one of Jefferson's idols but Jefferson's views began to change as conditions changed.
Jefferson was for land distribution

Let's stop you right there.

"The true foundation of republican government is the equal right of every citizen in his person and property and in their management." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816

Jefferson was an adamant supporter of property rights. Whether you are attempting to rewrite history on your own, or are simply one who was taught the corruption of frauds like Zinn, I cannot say.

Likewise, Locke was an advocate of private property;

{Sec. 39. And thus, without supposing any private Dominion, and property in Adam, over all the World, exclusive of other Men, which can no way be proved, nor any ones Property be made out [i.e., traced in lines of inheritance and descent] from it [Locke spent all of the First Treatise refuting such a claim made by Sir Robert Filmer's Patriarcha]; but supposing the World given as it was to the Children of Men in common, we see how labour could make Men distinct titles to several parcels of it, for their private uses; wherein there could be no doubt of Right, no room for quarrel.}

The fiction that Jefferson or Locke would advocate distribution of lands by the state is an absurdity,

but primarily newly acquired lands and believed in America as a farming nation even as the nation was changing to manufacturing.

Jefferson maintained the established system of homesteading uncontested lands. Unlike Jackson, The Jefferson administration required no encumbrance on lands, including those by Indian tribes, prior to homesteading. The founder of the Democratic party, Andrew Jackson, forcibly displacing tribes was policy. Jefferson though, respected property rights. Not much has changed between Republicans and Democrats, even then, Democrats crushed rights and simply took by force.

As Conditions changed Jefferson had to adapt his liberal beliefs to the changing conditions.

All men adapt to changes, but the fiction you are attempting to create for Jefferson has no bearing on reality.

One thing Jefferson was consistent about was a dedication to liberty in the market and economic sovereignty.

{To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. }

You might start with the question so often used when this topic arises: why did Jefferson change Locke's words when he wrote the Declaration of Independence?

 

[Interpol]

Well, I don't really think party names make much of a difference, since things have shifted over time.

I find it difficult to believe that Jefferson would have been excited about the religious right. Times were so much more simple that it's impossible to say what happens if you take an intellectual like that from then and give him the problems we face today. I don't think Jefferson would have approved of our two long wars, for instance.

Today, it's the Democratic party that made cuts to Medicare in order to pay for an expanded private insurance pool and to cover the donut hole in Medicare Part D.

Today it's the Democratic party that wants to cap defense spending and then lower it a bit.

The Democratic President of today wanted to pass a debt package that included over $2 trillion in cuts to socialism, which is unheard of from what we think of liberals.

And what of gov't itself? Hundreds of thousands of jobs are gone now.

I can point the finger at the Democratic party for putting money into stuff that already exists, but I have to point my finger at the Republican party for expanding gov't with Homeland Security and massive new spending in defense because of the wars, and with the mistake that was No Child Left Behind, another unfunded mandate to nowhere.

For me personally, I kind of feel like I can bring fiscal conservatism to the Democratic party as a main issue to apply pressure in order to get something passed whereas in the Republican tent I can soak up the complaints real good but then don't really see much action more than I see stunts.

So I'm not so sure where Thomas Jefferson would be today, I sort of feel like he'd be an independent with the self-reliance and liberty message of a Ron Paul, but with equal traits from a Bernie Sanders. Just seems like he'd be that kind of guy, the type of politician you could hang out with and you'd come to respect the guy because of so much more than just his position on a few things.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A variety of venues, all solid and objective, will show that Edward has been deliberately a doosh, a slimy liar. Why would he do something so easily exposed? Additionally, go to almost any freshman history book by the major houses and find the party that Jefferson co-founded (Democratic-Republican) that became the Democratic Party. If Edward had tried this in almost any junior college or college or university, he would have received a failing grade. Here are samples:

1796 Presidential Election
President Elect - 1800
Presidential Elections, 1789 (1804)
Election of 1808 (1808)

And finally
http://voices.yahoo.com/history-democraticrepublican-2902098.html
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=881
Thomas Jefferson — History.com Articles, Video, Pictures and Facts Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), author of the Google

Edward, where did you go?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Edward, we are waiting.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

A variety of venues, all solid and objective, will show that Edward has been deliberately a doosh, a slimy liar.

does this mean you will take the bet?? Yes or No??? I've asked you 4 times now??

It would seem obvious that you can't come up with a primary source to show Jeffferson's Party was called Democratic-Republican, not Republican?? So now you know freedom from big liberal has been the Republican mantra since Jefferson founded the Party in 1792. Welcome to your first lesson in American History.


"In referring to political parties I have adopted the names which the respective parties used in self-designation. Thus the Jeffersonian party has been referred to throughout as the Republican Party. This name came into use early in the 1790's among persons who considered themselves of a common political "interest", and the term "Republican interest" was generally used until it was replaced by the more definite "Republican Party".

The Jeffersonian Republicans( the formation of Party organization (1789-1801) by Noble E. Cunningham,Jr.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The issue is settled. Jefferson was the co-founder of the Democratic-Republican Party, This is settled. Your concerns about it mean nothing. I notice that you have expanded to use Jeffersonian-Republican. There may be hope for you.

You do know that the Jefferson party, the Democratic-Republicans, became the Democratic Party? You do know that, do you not?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The issue is settled.

did you take legally binding bet??? I've asked 5 times now?? Did the Congressional Record( primary source) get it wrong??

5th Congress (1797-1799)
Majority Party: Federalist (22 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (10 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 32

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6th Congress (1799-1801)

Majority Party: Federalist (22 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (10 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 32

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7th Congress (1801-1803)

Majority Party: Republican (17 seats)

Minority Party: Federalist (15 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Vacant: 2

Total Seats: 34

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is already settled, Edward, in post 564 above and you simply won't accept that you are wrong. That's your right.

 

[Brutus]

This is already settled, Edward, in post 564 above and you simply won't accept that you are wrong. That's your right.

Then why are you afraid to take bet, why not just one primary source??? What does that tell you??

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is no bet to make because the evidence is conclusive: Jefferson co-founded the D-R, which is the antecedent to the Democratic Party.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There is no bet to make because the evidence is conclusive: Jefferson co-founded the D-R, which is the antecedent to the Democratic Party.

if the evidence is conclusive that Jefferson founded the Democratic-Republican Party in 1792 , not the Republican Party why are you so afraid to make the bet and make $10,000?? See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?

Moreover where did the welfare state tradition in America come from if not Marx? Now you know why the liberals spied for Stalin and remain contemptuous of our Jeffersonian Republican founding.

 

[JakeStarkey]

edward, let me help you. Study the concept below. Incorporate it. Breathe slowly. Let knowing envelop your being.

Democratic-Republicans led to the Democratic Party

Federalists led to the nationalist wing of the Democratic-Republicans then to the Whigs and then to the Republican Party

Go back to your history books and show me where any of that is false.

And a question for you: which party celebrates Jefferson and which party celebrates Lincoln?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Democratic-Republicans led to the Democratic Party

if I disagreed I'll pay you $10,000. Bet??? or run away again with your liberal tail between your legs.

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow. You're trying to change the subject with a strawman but don't even know it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Did the Democratic-Republican Party of Jeffersons morph into the Democratic Party? Does the party celebrate Jefferson?

Did the Federalists lead to the Whigs which led to the Republicans? Does the party celebrate Lincoln?

Folks are laughing at you.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Folks are laughing at you.

of course if so you would not be so afraid to say exactly why? What does your fear tell you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, folks are laughing at you, edward. Answer the questions if you want any semblance of knowing what you are discussing.

Did the Democratic-Republican Party of Jeffersons morph into the Democratic Party? Does the party celebrate Jefferson?

Did the Federalists lead to the Whigs which led to the Republicans? Does the party celebrate Lincoln?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yes, folks are laughing at you, edward. Answer the questions if you want any semblance of knowing what you are discussing.

Did the Democratic-Republican Party of Jeffersons morph into the Democratic Party? Does the party celebrate Jefferson?

Did the Federalists lead to the Whigs which led to the Republicans? Does the party celebrate Lincoln?

if I disagreed with the above I will pay you $10,000. Bet or run away with your liberal tail between your legs?

 

[JakeStarkey]

edward, you are not a conservative, merely a far right wing nut, so your characterization of me as a "liberal" (if that meant anything in the first place in this discussion) is silly.

OK, so you agree with the below, which is very smart of you.

Did the Democratic-Republican Party of Jeffersons morph into the Democratic Party? Does the party celebrate Jefferson?

Did the Federalists lead to the Whigs which led to the Republicans? Does the party celebrate Lincoln?

 

[Peach]

edward, you are not a conservative, merely a far right wing nut, so your characterization of me as a "liberal" (if that meant anything in the first place in this discussion) is silly.

OK, so you agree with the below, which is very smart of you.

Did the Democratic-Republican Party of Jeffersons morph into the Democratic Party? Does the party celebrate Jefferson?

Did the Federalists lead to the Whigs which led to the Republicans? Does the party celebrate Lincoln?

BOTH parties came from the Democratic/Republican Party:

Democratic Party - Profile of the Democratic Party