If Alfie Evans were Muslim, Would the EU still be Starving Him To Death?

[Lucy Hamilton]

Vvvv

Not a vegetable to me.

Internet experts who think they know more than his doctors based on a snapshot? Where did you get your medical degree and have you examined the child and his records?

Oh, my GAWD, you think I require a medical degree to see that a child is alive or not?

When did you lose your common sense, Coyote?

This poor child was STARVED TO DEATH and the power of the state was used to prevent humane assistance.

That should scare the shit out of you, but it doesnt because you have drunk the Kool Aid, dear..

Again 70% of his brain had disintegrated, it's not what he LOOKED like externally Jim it's what was NOT happening internally and that was that effectively the child was nearing brain death if some cure could not be found and considering nobody even knew what had caused 70% of his brain to disintegrate then nobody could cure him. Even if he would have been taken to Italy it is very unlikely anything could have been done to reverse his condition and/or save him. The situation also is that while they were experimenting on him to find out what was happening his brain probably would have further disintegrated, in this situation you then have to think is this prolonging his suffering and if yes then that is inhumane.

The withdrawing of his food and water to allow him to starve to death is exceptionally cruel, would have been more humane to just give him an injection and let him go peacefully within a minute.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

What IS evident is this - the parents are in a heartbreaking situation and some folks want to use it to score political points.

A child who is dying due to lack of food and medical care that is being kept from him despite his parents wishes is all this is about.

The 'Life Boat' party are the only ones wanting to play politics about any of this.

"A child who is dying due to lack of food and medical care"

Alfie was not dying per se for those reasons, those reasons only made his death quicker ie. within a few days. Alfie was already dying, he was already dying when they were still feeding him, he was slowly dying for many months because 70% of his brain had disintegrated.

MRI scans of what was left of his brain they showed that the Thalamus had totally disintegrated. The Thalamus controls the stimuli to the most basic sensory functions, he had completely lost the capacity to hear, see, smell or respond to touch, any movement therefore was just reflex.

The Thalamus constitutes the majority of your Grey Matter, this below animated illustration the two masses of grey that's the Thalamus that you can see in the rotation, well ALL of that grey had disintegrated from Alfie's cranium, effectively he had not a lot of brain left:

Thalamus - Wikipedia

Grey matter - Wikipedia

 

[Lysistrata]

This whole situation was mishandled. The Liverpool hospital did all it could for 14 months, and I think that the British legal system merely supported the doctors' conclusion that enough is enough and there could be only one certain outcome.These people wanted more. A big show was had, I think at the behest of something called the "Christian Legal Center," which apparently has adequate funding to have had an ambulance waiting outside of the hospital equipped to continue respiratory support and deliver the child to a plane ready to take him to Italy. This should have happened: parents and baby escorted out of the hospital and into an ambulance, and then on to a plane ready for takeoff to Italy. Sadly, the outcome would have been the same in Italy as it would have been in Britain.

I once kissed a 10-month-old child who was on life support. Skin cold and marble. She was already dead while the machine grinded away., and I was present when the child's parents finally made the decision to end the horror. This hoopla over poor Alfie is political. I think that another poor kid has now taken Alfie's bed at the Liverpool hospital. I hope that her or his prognosis is better.

This "Christian Legal Center" hoodwinked these parents for reasons of its own. Used them.

 

[JoeB131]

Some great points being made on both sides, but I still think that the UK government committed murder here.

Of course you do. Again, murder is what Cigna did to Nataline Sarkisyan... not what the NHS did to Alfie Evans' Corpse.

Socialized Medicine is the worst of all possible options.

It gives us the service of the VA, with the efficiency of the Post Office and the cost of giving them complete control of our lives when get old.

Guy, I've never had a problem with the VA, all the times I've dealt with it. Post office has never lost a letter that I've sent out, not once.

On the other hand, I remember having to spend a year fighting with Cigna to get an operation that my doctor said I needed. And mysteriously, when my employer had to downsize people, I was the first to get cut despite having seniority.

So, um, no, I'd trust a government I can vote out of office long before some soulless corporations looking at a bottom line.

 

[Rustic]

Some great points being made on both sides, but I still think that the UK government committed murder here.

Socialized Medicine is the worst of all possible options.

It gives us the service of the VA, with the efficiency of the Post Office and the cost of giving them complete control of our lives when get old.

No thank you.

This wasn’t a socialized medicine issue, it had zero to do with it. Even in counties that have national healthcare plans, those who can afford to and want to can get care outside it. This is about a law that states when there is a dispute between parents and doctors in matters of serious illness the COURT can appoint an advocate for the child.

The government did not give a shit about the kid, they just wanted to get rid of him...

 

[Rustic]

This whole situation was mishandled. The Liverpool hospital did all it could for 14 months, and I think that the British legal system merely supported the doctors' conclusion that enough is enough and there could be only one certain outcome.These people wanted more. A big show was had, I think at the behest of something called the "Christian Legal Center," which apparently has adequate funding to have had an ambulance waiting outside of the hospital equipped to continue respiratory support and deliver the child to a plane ready to take him to Italy. This should have happened: parents and baby escorted out of the hospital and into an ambulance, and then on to a plane ready for takeoff to Italy. Sadly, the outcome would have been the same in Italy as it would have been in Britain.

I once kissed a 10-month-old child who was on life support. Skin cold and marble. She was already dead while the machine grinded away., and I was present when the child's parents finally made the decision to end the horror. This hoopla over poor Alfie is political. I think that another poor kid has now taken Alfie's bed at the Liverpool hospital. I hope that her or his prognosis is better.

This "Christian Legal Center" hoodwinked these parents for reasons of its own. Used them.

The government obviously wanted the kid dead, They got their wish. Now the parents are in pure misery

 

[Rustic]

Some great points being made on both sides, but I still think that the UK government committed murder here.

Of course you do. Again, murder is what Cigna did to Nataline Sarkisyan... not what the NHS did to Alfie Evans' Corpse.

Socialized Medicine is the worst of all possible options.

It gives us the service of the VA, with the efficiency of the Post Office and the cost of giving them complete control of our lives when get old.

Guy, I've never had a problem with the VA, all the times I've dealt with it. Post office has never lost a letter that I've sent out, not once.

On the other hand, I remember having to spend a year fighting with Cigna to get an operation that my doctor said I needed. And mysteriously, when my employer had to downsize people, I was the first to get cut despite having seniority.

So, um, no, I'd trust a government I can vote out of office long before some soulless corporations looking at a bottom line.

It’s the government wanted the kid dead, they got their wish. And I’m sure they are happy that the parents are in misery.
The post office is a fucking joke in the VA is a fucking joke, in the real world the post office would’ve folded a long time ago but it was propped up by some fucking joke of a federal government. The VA kills veterans...

 

[Coyote]

Some great points being made on both sides, but I still think that the UK government committed murder here.

Socialized Medicine is the worst of all possible options.

It gives us the service of the VA, with the efficiency of the Post Office and the cost of giving them complete control of our lives when get old.

No thank you.

This wasn’t a socialized medicine issue, it had zero to do with it. Even in counties that have national healthcare plans, those who can afford to and want to can get care outside it. This is about a law that states when there is a dispute between parents and doctors in matters of serious illness the COURT can appoint an advocate for the child.

The government did not give a shit about the kid, they just wanted to get rid of him...

It easnt the goverment it was the courts.

 

[Rustic]

Some great points being made on both sides, but I still think that the UK government committed murder here.

Socialized Medicine is the worst of all possible options.

It gives us the service of the VA, with the efficiency of the Post Office and the cost of giving them complete control of our lives when get old.

No thank you.

This wasn’t a socialized medicine issue, it had zero to do with it. Even in counties that have national healthcare plans, those who can afford to and want to can get care outside it. This is about a law that states when there is a dispute between parents and doctors in matters of serious illness the COURT can appoint an advocate for the child.

The government did not give a shit about the kid, they just wanted to get rid of him...

It easnt the goverment it was the courts.

Same. Difference

 

[JimBowie1958]

It easnt the goverment it was the courts.

The courts are part of the government, coyote.

 

[Dekster]

No he was a vegetable at the end of a terminal genetic condition. There was no normal life and new treatments that would saved him. Sure he could have been a human lab rat for a bit if he had gotten there sooner, but the end was inevitable

Experts who, unlike you, know what the hell they are talking about say otherwise.

You just repeat this notion the kid was a vegetable to sooth your evil bastard conscience which is about dead already.

Experts like the medical doctors who were treating him disagree with your trailer park diagnosis. Guess what. They were right. He's dead.

You should never of been up to the government, because they don’t give two shits about the kid or the the family.
Typical of socialism don’t give a shit about individuals

The only place that would take the kid and went to great lengths to take him in was Italy, a country with what you'd call socialist healthcare

Because the Pope arranged for it. They didn't want him. They wanted to please the Pontiff

 

[Dekster]

No

Experts who, unlike you, know what the hell they are talking about say otherwise.

You just repeat this notion the kid was a vegetable to sooth your evil bastard conscience which is about dead already.

That they do.

Scientists Have Reversed Brain Damage in a 2-Year-Old Girl Who Drowned in a Swimming Pool

Alfie wasn't a two year old who drowned in a pool. He had MDS and had already lost 70% of the white matter in his brain.

So, it should’ve been up to the parents 100% ~ 0% up to the government

The parents could have 100% sought no free medical care, but they didn't.

 

[Dekster]

No he was a vegetable at the end of a terminal genetic condition. There was no normal life and new treatments that would saved him. Sure he could have been a human lab rat for a bit if he had gotten there sooner, but the end was inevitable

Experts who, unlike you, know what the hell they are talking about say otherwise.

You just repeat this notion the kid was a vegetable to sooth your evil bastard conscience which is about dead already.

Experts like the medical doctors who were treating him disagree with your trailer park diagnosis. Guess what. They were right. He's dead.

You should never of been up to the government, because they don’t give two shits about the kid or the the family.
Typical of socialism don’t give a shit about individuals

Caring doesn't cure fatal illness. Nor does praying.

 

[Dekster]

He is a terminally ill vegetable who is going to die either way.

No, he could have had a normal life if he had some new treatments done, and why wouldnt the EU allow it if it is not at their expense and duly credentialed professionals are saying it is a plausible cure?

Maniacal wannabe murderers dont want their little precedent get away from them.

No he was a vegetable at the end of a terminal genetic condition. There was no normal life and new treatments that would saved him. Sure he could have been a human lab rat for a bit if he had gotten there sooner, but the end was inevitable

That’s not the point the government should have zero say in the matter because they have zero moral authority and certainly do not have the best interest of the kids or the parents in mind

You get what you pay for.