Zone1 If a follower of Judaism simply cannot keep Shabbat, is there a way to make amends?

[Cougarbear]

The one that allows Jews to Survive when Practicing could mean death .

???

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Or not truly undesirable hours….just a regular Mon to Fri job. For the Orthodox, they will usually make an arrangement to quit work an hour or two early on Fridays in exchange for later hours another day of the week. If the employer doesn’t accommodate that, they don’t take that job.

As a Sabbath 'keeping Christian I've had to do this many times. I've had understanding employers and not understanding employers.

He has choices. God ALWAYS gives us choices.

First century Christians faced DEATH Afor "Judaizing" on the Sabbath. If he's serious, he will choose to OBEY God

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

First, if I chose to covert I would decide to announce that or not. I try and keep the 613 Commandments,Shenma and yes, Shabbat.

The inquiry is about knowledge and the fact that I KNOW not every follower of Judaism works only M-F

There are serious Christians and CULTURAL Christians. This applies to Jews too.

 

[Meriweather]

The Old Testament. His arrival was supposed to be followed with a number of events most importantly an era of peace (which the world has never enjoyed). Furthermore, the trinty operates contrary to the Old Testament of "one G_d". Unless Jesus was G_d himself, which would betray the OT monolithic proclamation. I love Jesus and his message, I'm just not so certain about his role. What it means to be Christian has also.changed dratcially judging by the actions if many. Relying on so-called beliefs over actions doesn't jive with the bible nor my perspective.

Trinity is an adjective. It is an adjective that describes God, Creator is an adjective that describes and also tells how God operates. Are you against that adjective as well?

The next thing that puzzles me is tossing aside who Jesus said he was in favor of believing those who never knew him yet said who he was or who he would be.

There are many good reasons to follow Judaism. I would in a heartbeat, but two things stand in my way. First, I was not born a Jew, and I have yet to find in my extensive genealogy, anyone in my ancestry who was Jew. Secondly, I believe Jesus' statements about who he is. On the other hand, if I had to believe some of other Christian interpretations of Revelation and other (Old Testament) apocalyptic literature, that would make a huge difference.

As it is, I am very happy in being included in the role of being a disciple of another nation/flock. And this includes giving a happy nod to all those in the first or original flock. They are in a healthy, happy place. As I said before, I wish you well in your own journey. May you find peace, health, happiness.

 

[rosends]

He was a practising Rabbi in his time, I thought this was well accepted even by those who reject him outright.

nope, not at all. Though people might have called him "master" (Rav) there is no indication the he was properly ordained as a rabbi.

 

[rosends]

So, who is doing the atoning? There has to be someone who steps in and atones so that we can be redeemed. The redeemer of Israel. But, how is that done and who is the Redeemer of Israel?

individuals do the atoning for their own behavior. Why should someone else step in? While there are communal sins that someone might, representing the people, atone for, and in the days when sacrifices were in use, a person might help in the atonement sacrifice, people atone for themselves.

 

[Cougarbear]

individuals do the atoning for their own behavior. Why should someone else step in? While there are communal sins that someone might, representing the people, atone for, and in the days when sacrifices were in use, a person might help in the atonement sacrifice, people atone for themselves.

How can a sinner atone for their own sins? That makes no sense. Sinners can ask for forgiveness and repent. But, that doesn't mean the sin is washed away. I realize Catholics have something similar to what you are saying. They call them Indulgences. It's big down in Mexico and South America. Priests hand out for a price, indulgences, that say you can repent and be forgiven of any sin you commit during Mardi Gras for instance. All you have to do is buy them. Yep, put up some money and you get them. Rosends says, "I'm going to commit adultery." So, she commits adultery. Then, she says, "I will put myself up to atone for the sin of adultery I committed." Now, she is pure in the sight of the LORD. Is that about right?

 

[rosends]

How can a sinner atone for their own sins? That makes no sense. Sinners can ask for forgiveness and repent. But, that doesn't mean the sin is washed away. I realize Catholics have something similar to what you are saying. They call them Indulgences. It's big down in Mexico and South America. Priests hand out for a price, indulgences, that say you can repent and be forgiven of any sin you commit during Mardi Gras for instance. All you have to do is buy them. Yep, put up some money and you get them. Rosends says, "I'm going to commit adultery." So, she commits adultery. Then, she says, "I will put myself up to atone for the sin of adultery I committed." Now, she is pure in the sight of the LORD. Is that about right?

A sinner atones by a process of repenting. Sin is forgiven because of sincere repentance, prayer and giving charity. This is the process God put in place for people by which they can achieve expiation of sin. But as I said, if one intentionally commits a sin, the process is more complex. One cannot say "I will sin and repent" and then expect to receive atonement. The process of repentance is complex and demanding

The Four Steps of Repentance - Jewish Holidays

The Torah tells us no matter how far we stray or how many times we sin, God will wait for us to return to him through Teshuvah which is a 4-part process.

www.ou.org

and rosends is not a "she" nor does he identify as one.

 

[Cougarbear]

A sinner atones by a process of repenting. Sin is forgiven because of sincere repentance, prayer and giving charity. This is the process God put in place for people by which they can achieve expiation of sin. But as I said, if one intentionally commits a sin, the process is more complex. One cannot say "I will sin and repent" and then expect to receive atonement. The process of repentance is complex and demanding

The Four Steps of Repentance - Jewish Holidays

The Torah tells us no matter how far we stray or how many times we sin, God will wait for us to return to him through Teshuvah which is a 4-part process.

www.ou.org

and rosends is not a "she" nor does he identify as one.

Why were animals sacrificed as the “atonement” while the 4 steps to repentance goes on? The “atonement” comes from a third party’s sacrifice. The sinless animal sacrifice. So, the repentant sinner cannot atone for their own sins.
I just figured with a name of Rose, that would make the person a woman. I repent!

 

[rosends]

Why were animals sacrificed as the “atonement” while the 4 steps to repentance goes on? The “atonement” comes from a third party’s sacrifice. The sinless animal sacrifice. So, the repentant sinner cannot atone for their own sins.
I just figured with a name of Rose, that would make the person a woman. I repent!

There were animal sacrifices which were part of the process for a small group of sins. But God put in place a process for times when sacrifice was not available, and even when it was, he put in place other means to cover the sins that sacrifices had nothing to do with or for. The atonement is because the individual connects with God and God forgives. No third party needed.

 

[Cougarbear]

There were animal sacrifices which were part of the process for a small group of sins. But God put in place a process for times when sacrifice was not available, and even when it was, he put in place other means to cover the sins that sacrifices had nothing to do with or for. The atonement is because the individual connects with God and God forgives. No third party needed.

Ooh, I don’t know about that. When in the scriptures does it say God put in another method for atonement? Without a prophet stating this, it cannot be so. Amos 3:7.
Duet. 4:2. Can’t add or take away without the Lord and that has to be to a prophet.
The word atone must have a third party. It’s why the animal sacrifice.

 

[rosends]

Ooh, I don’t know about that. When in the scriptures does it say God put in another method for atonement? Without a prophet stating this, it cannot be so. Amos 3:7.
Duet. 4:2. Can’t add or take away without the Lord and that has to be to a prophet.
The word atone must have a third party. It’s why the animal sacrifice.

Here is some information

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/630900/jewish/Atonement-in-the-Absence-of-Sacrifices.htm

Leviticus 17:11

In Christian theology, the only way to achieve atonement for sins is by offering a sacrifice whose blood is shed in our place. Christians insist that the absolute need for a vicarious blood sacrifice is rooted in the Torah, and cite as proof Leviticus 17:11

jewsforjudaism.org

What Atones for Which Sins?

At some point I read a very interesting post somewhere about this, but cannot remember where it was or what sources it used (or if they were even reputable). It stated that the spilling of blood in...

judaism.stackexchange.com

Atonement in Judaism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure why you claim the word "atone" must have a third party.

 

[Cougarbear]

Here is some information

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/630900/jewish/Atonement-in-the-Absence-of-Sacrifices.htm

Leviticus 17:11

In Christian theology, the only way to achieve atonement for sins is by offering a sacrifice whose blood is shed in our place. Christians insist that the absolute need for a vicarious blood sacrifice is rooted in the Torah, and cite as proof Leviticus 17:11

jewsforjudaism.org

What Atones for Which Sins?

At some point I read a very interesting post somewhere about this, but cannot remember where it was or what sources it used (or if they were even reputable). It stated that the spilling of blood in...

judaism.stackexchange.com

Atonement in Judaism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure why you claim the word "atone" must have a third party.

I’m not saying that the animal sacrifice was the only thing that removes the sin. Same with what Christ taught. The first principles should be faith in God, repentance, baptism and receive the Holy Spirit. Isaiah said come forth up out of the waters of Judah. Washing and anointings were important and perhaps they performed baptisms as well. Without the right attitude with repentance, the rituals mean nothing. But, with the right attitude the rituals mean everything. For they show your faith first in God.
Anyways, what I read from your references simply show without a prophet, there will never be a temple and thus, no ritual sacrifice. The atonement has been lost. It’s what I realized and with specific revelations from the Holy Ghost, the animal sacrifices were similitudes of the only begotten of the Father in the flesh. The only one through him can we be saved. The atone is a third party.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I’m not saying that the animal sacrifice was the only thing that removes the sin. Same with what Christ taught. The first principles should be faith in God, repentance, baptism and receive the Holy Spirit. Isaiah said come forth up out of the waters of Judah. Washing and anointings were important and perhaps they performed baptisms as well. Without the right attitude with repentance, the rituals mean nothing. But, with the right attitude the rituals mean everything. For they show your faith first in God.
Anyways, what I read from your references simply show without a prophet, there will never be a temple and thus, no ritual sacrifice. The atonement has been lost. It’s what I realized and with specific revelations from the Holy Ghost, the animal sacrifices were similitudes of the only begotten of the Father in the flesh. The only one through him can we be saved. The atone is a third party.

The animal.sacrifice ritual was replaced long.ago. I believe during the Greeks takeover/hellenic period in Jewish history and definitely after the temple was destroyed.

 

[AsherN]

Those would be Reform Jews for the most part, although Conservatives give themselves a little leeway in November and early December, when sunset is around 4:30 pm on Fridays. Orthodox Jews would never work after that time, and also need to allow themselves time to drive home….so that means wrapping up the week by 4 pm or so. It really is a small allowance on the part of an employer to let an observant Jew hang it up an hour early on Friday afternoon.

Besides, there is a lot of telework going on, with Friday the most popular day for work at home. An Orthodox Jew could choose that day, and then turn off the computer by 4:30. It‘s only a half-hour early, and it’s only for a short time of the time of the year.

Not all reform Jews. I belong to a Reform congregation. I've always stopped early enough of Friday to be home for Shabbat.

 

[Lisa558]

Not all reform Jews. I belong to a Reform congregation. I've always stopped early enough of Friday to be home for Shabbat.

I got the impression you were Orthodox. I recall your giving me some helpful information when I was invited to Shabbos dinner at the home of very observant Jews.

 

[Cougarbear]

The animal.sacrifice ritual was replaced long.ago. I believe during the Greeks takeover/hellenic period in Jewish history and definitely after the temple was destroyed.

That’s kind of my point. It wasn’t replaced as far as the Jews believe. Instead, they replaced it with their own way to hide the fact they blew it by angering God in many ways. Enough to destroy their temple. It’s called apostasy.

 

[Lisa558]

That’s kind of my point. It wasn’t replaced as far as the Jews believe. Instead, they replaced it with their own way to hide the fact they blew it by angering God in many ways. Enough to destroy their temple. It’s called apostasy.

Apostates are Jews who convert to Christianity or simply decide that Jesus was a deity of some sort.

 

[Cougarbear]

Apostates are Jews who convert to Christianity or simply decide that Jesus was a deity of some sort.

And with this continued attitude you have no Temple. So, who is in the state of apostasy?

 

[Lisa558]

And with this continued attitude you have no Temple. So, who is in the state of apostasy?

If Jesus was the Messiah, the temple would have been rebuilt. So what have apostates who abandoned Judaism accomplished? There’s still no temple.