Idf Shoots Down Syrian Warplane Over Golan

The FSA and Jabhat al-Nusra at the Crossroads of Aleppo
freehalab.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/the-fsa-and-jabhat-al-nusra-at-the-crossroads-of-aleppo/
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Activists in Aleppo released a statement on the day of the terrorist attack on the Saadallah al-Jabri square in down town Aleppo, disassociating the revolution from Jabhat al-Nusra and calling on all revolutionaries to do the same. The statement does not seem to be in response to the attacks themselves, but to a mass execution of regime forces a few days before. Unfortunately, not everyone feels the same as can be seen in the following demonstration from the Abu Hurayra Mosque on October 5.

They are calling for God to protect Jabhat al-Nusra, whose fighters are walking amongst them. Ironically, they call for the FSA to be armed while walking amongst those who nobody would want to arm; who are pointed to when arms are not coming through; who have more than plenty of resources themselves; and whose abundance of this is what puts the FSA in a problematic position. In fact, a disastrous position, at the crossroads of Aleppo’s liberation and its future.

It is important to understand that this group is not mainstream Salafist or Islamist, but Qaedist. It is part of the ideological movement of Al Qaeda which operates in Afhanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Mali, Somalia, Chechnya, as well as the non-Muslim world. This is not something merely assumed from the way it has operated in Syria, or from its suspected origins in Iraq, or from its fans are around the world, but from its own sources. A quick look at their forum Ansar al-Mujahidin reveals what they are all about to anyone even slightly familiar with groups and personalities that belong to this movement. Now that the UNSC addressed the group’s latest attack, its name can be expected to appear on the official lists.

It all began when Assad decided that he would wage war on Al Qaeda early on in the revolution and when Qaedists decided that their Jihad had come to Syria. It started off badly because this “coincidence” alone was enough to raise suspicions, not to mention the fact that such a conflict was galaxies away from the realities of Syria, its people and their revolution. The people couldn’t even imagine what such a conflict would look like considering that they, unlike people in many other countries, haven’t been exposed to anything even resembling this ideology and the movement behind it for three decades.

It took nearly a year into the revolution for the first group, Jabhat al-Nusra, to pop up, and others followed. At first there were very few of them, then a few hundred fighters, by now perhaps a few thousand. Ammar Abdulhamid spoke of as many as 5000 while Prof. Landis spoke of thousands having come in over the Turkish border; this seems to be a bit exaggerated though, and in the end even such a number remains a fraction of many tens of thousands fighting for the FSA. Whatever the eventual number may be, only a few are needed for their typical terrorist operations and soon enough the suicide bombings, kidnappings, executions and so on would be introduced and structurally grow in size and frequency, eventually resulting in the recent events. When they arrived, they were isolated from Syrian society and the FSA and limited themselves to their characteristic operations. This slowly changed. First, some Syrians joined them. Probably through them, they came in contact with battalions who were ideologically closer to them than others, some of which were associated with the FSA. By this time the battle for Aleppo started, and they became much more of a fighting force on the ground. Probably through these battalions they reached the FSA Brigades there and finally, so it seems, the military council. However, until now Jabhat al-Nusra or any other Qaedist group is not part of the FSA or any of its Brigades.

In the beginning all of this was only imaginable in the fantasy world of regime supporters, while many others explained things by ascribing everything completely to the regime as the culprit. Even now there are probably people who can’t look beyond the regime and see that this movement is very real and present in Syria, going about its usual business. Others might ignore the other side of what happened at the Saadallah al-Jabri square or other such issues, out of anger, suffering and despair, perhaps out of an extreme response, but not out of an extremist ideology; that is what could describe most of those protesters chanting for Jabhat al-Nusra, they may walk with them but they are surely not part of their movement. And even then they remain only a few amongst the hundreds of thousands of activists, not to mention the rest of the people. The problem is that many people don’t know who they’re dealing with and might get duped. That free Syrian flag waving there is to be waged war against, as is Syrian religious tradition and its people, scholars and laymen alike, as are minorities, and any political system and social culture that contradicts their ideology. There will never be peace unless the Syrian people either defeat them, or concede at least a part of their country to them. They wouldn’t be the only ones in line as far as that goes.

The FSA should and most likely do know better. But they too are desperate. For nearly a year they have been waiting for arms and some form of serious military assistance, hoping everything would change in that regard in the battles of Aleppo and Damascus so that it would not become like Homs. But it did, nothing substantial came and besides the related problems concerning organisation and defections they suffered shortages of everything, bread, gas, water, while being constantly massively bombarded from the sky. At this rate, it would take months to come for completely liberating Aleppo alone, and years before completely defeating the Assad regime. At first, they could not do anything about those strange groups of foreigners. By now, they feel that they need them. They need their resources, their skills, their suicidal mentality.

By August 20, Jabhat al-Nusra released a clip from an interview with Abdul Qader Saleh, the Commander of Aleppo’s Tawhid Brigade, second only to Col. Abdul Jabbar al-Agedi (see the photo at the top of this post) the head of Aleppo’s Revolutionary Military Council.

He says that Jabhat al-Nusra are their brothers, and that they go with everyone who fights, for the aim is to overthrow this regime, and that this group is fighting just like other battalions are. He seems to have difficulties with what he’s saying, perhaps it’s the desperate and tiresome situation though I don’t think so.

David Ignatius was in Aleppo recently and interviewed Col. al-Agedi:

…Akidi demonstrated the frustration of a commander who has been waiting for U.S. help but claims he isn’t getting anything useful. Official U.S. policy is to provide non-lethal aid, including command-and-control tools such as satellite phones. Akidi looks like a military man, barrel-chested and confident, and he’s the sort of officer who Washington hopes might build a solid fighting force. If the United States can help him get modern antiaircraft and antitank weapons, “I will keep them away from extremist groups,” he promises. He hopes America can provide training, too — even a two-week basic course that could help create a real army. But unless the United States provides weapons that can tip the balance, Akidi says he needs help from the jihadists who are so eager to fight and die. “I have no problem with extremists if they are fighting the regime. All we care is that the regime falls and the bloodshed stops.” What would Akidi do if the regime used chemical weapons? He laughs as he answers: “We will look for a grave.”

He also interviewed Afif Suleiman in Idlib:

I meet Col. Afif Suleiman, the commander of Free Syrian Army forces in Idlib province. He’s wearing a shoulder holster with silver bullets in the bandolier and repeats the same injunction to America: Give us weapons and help us coordinate our forces, or the extremists will take control.

1: David Ignatius Syrian resistance needs U.S. help - The Washington Post
2:David Ignatius Syrian resistance needs U.S. help - The Washington Post

The decision that has apparently been made is a pragmatic one, but it won’t come without a price. All of it is the regime’s gain. First, not only does it finally get the war it has been looking for from the beginning, if it has a hand in Jabhat al-Nusra – which remains very likely although the FSA doesn’t seem to think so any more – the regime may now be able to stretch this hand all the way up to the very leadership of the FSA. Moreover, it will cost support from the international community (whatever that is worth) and more importantly from Syrian society. Most important of all, it will not please God. What they get in return is not only a prolonged battle, even if this seems to be the way to prevent that, but a strong new enemy for many years to come, even if it isn’t very hostile yet. This is not the path Syria should take, it does not befit its people and their heroes who have refused the orders to shoot peaceful demonstrators, and turned their guns against Assad’s machine of mass murder and mass destruction. Col. al-Agedi and Abdul Qader Saleh and their men are good, decent people, national heroes who are fighting for a sacred cause in a righteous way. The people of Halab are with them, but they will never be with Al Qaeda.​
 
Shaykh `Abd al-Hadi Kharsa is asked about the Free Syrian Army. The Shaykh begins his response by saying that the FSA consists of 4 groups.

The first group consists of members of the Muslim brotherhood and followers of Wahhabism, and these do not constitute more than between 10-20% [of the FSA]. He points out that Shaykh al-Buti cannot generalise and justify killings by their mere presence. In fact, there are moderates amongst them and he points out that God says none shall carry the burden of another. Considering the destruction and mass murder in Syria, followers of Wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood are to be cooperated with against the injustice and massacre of our people by the enemies of God and humanity.

The second group consists of people from all parts of society, including scholars and Sufi Shaykhs, civilians and [defected] military who took up arms in defence of their honour and in support of the oppressed, and they account for between 80-90% [of the FSA].

[UPDATE: Full Translation]

Many thanks to The Art of Protest Blog for providing a full translation of the Shaykh’s article, which is quoted below with slight editing.

———————————————————————

In the name of God, the most gracious, most merciful.

Answered Question: What are your thoughts on the Free Syrian Army?

As for the Free [Syrian] Army and its components:

Those who are of Wahhabi, Ikhwan or other Islamist factions from outside the country or within it and they are a very small portion of the [Free Syrian] Army which make no more than 10-20% thereof, and we do not need a man like Dr. al-Buti to act like the presence of these men should be a justification to generalize the entire [Free Syrian] Army and a justification for the [Assad] regime to decimate the Syrian population, and accusing them of such.

The reality is the army has those who are moderate and those who are compromising, although you do have those who are extremists, God says in the Qur’an … [An`am, 164].

In this way, we should not group together the moderates with the extremists, because all those elements will have a place in any realm.

And after we have seen the destruction of Syria and its mass killings, we will find those who have a religious inclination although they might be having Wahhabi or Ikhwani mindsets, they will stay side by side with the people, and defeat the enemies of humanity and those who wish to end this religion.

The second are the everyday Syrian Volunteer Revolutionary, and they make up 90% of the [Free Syrian] Army. The Free [Syrian] Army has Sufi scholars, civilians, defected military, and they had independently took arms against their own tyrant without any help from someone on the outside. And in the beginning, like all other scholars, we tried our best to avoid any type of bloodshed of innocents, so we had given Fatwas about preserving human life to avoid civil war, however there were other scholars that said that as long as the ruler [Assad] has no limits to kill the opposition, what we had feared occurred. Men with religious inclinations had been inspired by scholars to take up arms, and fight for the defence of their country and to end the bloodshed that the regime brings upon them. On that note, a lot of Western countries and Arab countries saw this as an opportunity to jump the board and say they are supportive of this struggle and are financially supportive of it. However, those were all empty promises, and they not only had empty lies of support, but saw the bloodshed everyday, and refused to intervene or even financially support anyone. And the war is uneven between the Free [Syrian] Army and the [Assad] regime, because the Free Army has rag tag army weapons, while the regime is destroying towns whole. Even scholars said to the Free Army, “You cannot make this an urban war nor take refuge in the house of civilians when at war.” And they did so only to fulfil a certain amount of media presence to bring about the war’s attention. However, many of those elements had endangered civilian lives.

Although the opposition have won many political victories in the inside and outside of Syria, it has absolutely no benefit as long as the revolutionaries endanger their fellow civilians in their war against the regime. And you should not consider a war a victory on any end, because there are thousands of injured, killed, abducted, and jailed that are the causalities of trying to obtain an opposition victory against the regime. And more or less, many of the transitional government has done nothing but satisfy Western interests, and this has allowed Syria to be vulnerable to Israel in many ways.

Some political analysts say that it has reached a point of no return, and the war must end one way or another. And although their own brothers and sisters in the country are hell bound on destruction, the innocent revolutionary that puts down his arms will be a victim of persecution regardless.

The majority of the revolutionaries at this point are fighting for the livelihood of their families and honour and whoever has died is a martyr, God willing, and this is in accordance to the Hadith: “Whoever is killed without any allegiance to a murder, is a martyr, and whoever is killed without purpose is also a martyr, and whoever is killed because of religious inclination is also a martyr”. So I hope anyone killed because of any sectarian or political reason is accepted as a martyr in the eyes of God, and I urge anyone in the war to be aware of their intents, and who they are fighting. And to not kill anyone due to a doubt, or not kill a child or woman or any old man. And to avoid tribal revenge from the Jahiliya [pre-Islamic period of ignorance], and to please return to the scholars to see if what you are doing is Islamically sound.

There are groups that claim they are part of the Free Army but are just bandits and gangs, and they take the banner of the Free Army without permission. They are in many ways planted to carry out crimes in the name of the Free Army, to justify for the regime to destroy cities in a manipulative manner. Many of them are mercenaries or others that bank off any war.

However, although I have outlined the groups I also must urge the righteous among the Free [Syrian] Army to still fulfil some moral standards:

1. Do not kill those who you have absolutely no evidence that they are responsible for war crimes simply for their allegiance to the [Assad] regime at one point in time.

2. Do not begin to loot and destroy the houses of the families of those who had allegiance to the regime, or those who simply weren’t supportive of the FSA, or those who didn’t speak out against the regime. This is completely unIslamic, and you must return everything you have stolen or you will be judged on the day of Judgement for this. I urge everyone to spread this.

3. Do not act on revenge or entertain the idea. This is a practice of Jahiliyyah [pre-Islamic period of ignorance], do not attempt it.

4. Cursing others. I understand you have seen major crimes but we cannot ever curse another Muslim, unless they actually they openly committed disbelief. Otherwise I see no point to make this type of insult on your opponents. The punishment for cursing is that it goes to the sky and it returns back to the initial person. Please pray and declare that God is the Greatest to achieve victory instead
 
who said the FSA receives ALL the aid.? the amount of ZAKAT dedicated to the Islamic cause of blowing the brains out of millions for allah---is staggering. uhm... priester----of course you need not answer-------I am a jew---born of two jewish parents-------in the USA----
of course you do not have to answer-----
uhm,,,,,,,,is you a Baathist ?----you seem to like
pig assad (of course you need not answer)
FSA is as Islamist as Al Nusra, Islamic Front and Isis.
You should get your Tourette-Syndrome under control, by the way.
 
'from the post of aris----->>>>
At first, they could not do anything about those strange groups of foreigners. By now, they feel that they need them. They need their resources, their skills, their suicidal mentality.

good summary of ---the strange lure of Islamic terrorism as foisted upon desperate
and disorganized people
 
FSA is as Islamist as Al Nusra, Islamic Front and Isis.
You should get your Tourette-Syndrome under control, by the way.[/QUOTE]

I did not suggest that the FSA is islamist-----as far as I know its main thing is "get rid of ass-aad--- and the weirdo islamicists. I was responding to YOUR statement "fsa gets all the aid" According to the info from Aris (a reliable source) FSA is hurting for help. I doubt that it is getting aid from "the Qatari ladies auxiliary for the support of the caliphate"---or
from the Iranian "ladies auxiliary" ---maybe from the UJA
 
I did not suggest that the FSA is islamist
Right, But I did. and I am right on that.
Aris is not a good source btw, cause she downgraded herself to a puppet repeating western propaganda in favor of a bunch of Islamist terrorists who terrorize the Syrian people.
 
So the FSA is the new American puppet ?

well according to the author of the thing aris presented ---THIS is FSA>>>

There are groups that claim they are part of the Free Army but are just bandits and gangs, and they take the banner of the Free Army without permission. They are in many ways planted to carry out crimes in the name of the Free Army, to justify for the regime to destroy cities in a manipulative manner. Many of them are mercenaries or others that bank off any war.

watta mess
 
The second are the everyday Syrian Volunteer Revolutionary, and they make up 90% of the [Free Syrian] Army.
You again with your bullshit... Why does the other side always have to lie, lie, lie?

Not complete:
Terrorists.jpg


Study author Richard Barrett, a former British intelligence official and U.N. specialist on al-Qaeda, writes that that leaders of groups that attract most foreign fighters — al-Nusra Front, Ahrar al-Sham and the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS)
 
I did not suggest that the FSA is islamist
Right, But I did. and I am right on that.
Aris is not a good source btw, cause she downgraded herself to a puppet repeating western propaganda in favor of a bunch of Islamist terrorists who terrorize the Syrian people.


ok----I got it-----you do not support "islamicists"---
you support saintly BAATHISTS---like Gamal abdel Nasser, Sadaaam Hussein and Papa and baby ASS-AAD

Baathists are noble non-sectarians-----as in the above and as was the very noble muhummad
 
The second are the everyday Syrian Volunteer Revolutionary, and they make up 90% of the [Free Syrian] Army.
You again with your bullshit... Why does the other side always have to lie, lie, lie?

Not complete:
Terrorists.jpg


Study author Richard Barrett, a former British intelligence official and U.N. specialist on al-Qaeda, writes that that leaders of groups that attract most foreign fighters — al-Nusra Front, Ahrar al-Sham and the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS)
Possible. Now. But what was a year ago, when Isis did not play the major role on the Syrian battlefields? ISIS attracts not only foreign fighters, but also (also forign) FSA fighters. So if the last 1000 members of the FSA one day call their army a secular one, its due to groups like Al Nusra and Isis.
 
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When you have nuclear weapons and arms provided to you almost for free then any kind of war crime or unadvised international situation is possible!
 
I have a simple question for those who know----
(not me) who is your FAVE? based on my
not knowing much-----so far FSA seems the nicest in the bunch-----but I am under the influence of USA/aris PROPAGANDA. Based on what I have heard from Syrian expats----asaads are not nice
 
I have a simple question for those who know----
(not me) who is your FAVE? based on my
not knowing much-----so far FSA seems the nicest in the bunch-----but I am under the influence of USA/aris PROPAGANDA. Based on what I have heard from Syrian expats----asaads are not nice
Making a difference between these groups makes no sense. Who´s fighting with Al Nusra, is Al Nusra.
 
41102"]
I have a simple question for those who know----
(not me) who is your FAVE? based on my
not knowing much-----so far FSA seems the nicest in the bunch-----but I am under the influence of USA/aris PROPAGANDA. Based on what I have heard from Syrian expats----asaads are not nice

captain-blei
Making a difference between these groups makes no sense. Who´s fighting with Al Nusra, is Al Nusra.[/QUOTE]

ok captain blei I will rephrase----which faction is the mostest bad,,,,,?
 
ok captain blei I will rephrase----which faction is the mostest bad,,,,,?
hmmm, all these groups are busy abusing children and beheading people. They look very similar to me...
The only reasonable faction is the Syrian government that abolishes all of these groups.
 
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So the FSA is the new American puppet ?

well according to the author of the thing aris presented ---THIS is FSA>>>

There are groups that claim they are part of the Free Army but are just bandits and gangs, and they take the banner of the Free Army without permission. They are in many ways planted to carry out crimes in the name of the Free Army, to justify for the regime to destroy cities in a manipulative manner. Many of them are mercenaries or others that bank off any war.

watta mess

Most Syrian groups as well as al-Qaida and many Imams have distanced themselves from ISIS or out right condemn it's actions.
ISIS has a totally different agenda from the FSA and Syrian opposition groups. They are not fighting for a free syria or political reforms for Syria. ISIS want an islamic caliphate. They don't want elections with candidates from across the spectrum of political, religious or racial groups within Syria. They want to wipe out Syria, Iraq and every place where there are muslim to form a singular empire ruled by a self appointed thug who preaches a corruption of Islam.

I understand it might be confusing but you paint everyone who is not willing to kiss the feet of Assad as being of one united groups that needs to be wiped out so Assad can continue his brutal authoritarian control of Syria.

Having a tantrum and whining the same Assad propaganda is not going to change the facts. Not everyone who wants Assad to step down is not all ISIS, nor are they all FSA. I doubt you are as challenged as you are playing on this forum.

Within every groups there are usually a few zealots and fanatics, no matter how good their cause is. The group should not be defined by the few. Muslims around the world are standing up and saying that the so called radical islamists are no practicing Islam and do not represent the muslim people.
Not In My Name - Muslims against ISIS Facebook
 

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