Ideas to solve unemployment

[code1211]

Here is my suggestion to help the unemployment and homeless problem.

Give an incentive for people to help people.

If a person or company hires or otherwise helps find employment for an unemployed or homeless person they will receive that persons federal income tax for the next five years for which that person is employed, rather then the IRS. Also any State can forgo their income tax.

If person helps an unemployed or homeless person start a business the same applies.

If an unemployed person starts his own business and hires unemployed or homeless people he gets the same benefit.
.
The government gains by not having to pay unemployment insurance and they will indirectly increase tax revenue from the purchasing power of the newly employed.

This will stop the unemployment insurance bleeding and increase the size of GDP.

The program should continue until unemployment numbers are at reasonable levels.

If someone quits their job, they are not eligible.

What is your idea?

What you are describing are "what ifs".

For one, people who quit their jobs are not eligible for unemployment now.

Second, what kind of job? What is the job? Making what? Doing what?

People only hire when there is demand. If only the top 1% have all the money, they will be the only ones buying anything. If people don't buy, then there is no "demand", hence, no "jobs". If no one is working, who cares about "taxes"?

People fail to look at the big picture.

For instance, how many times have those on the right said, "Why build a bridge? After all, when the bridge is finished, then those people stop working". When you try to explain how that bridge now connects three communities, meaning commerce, meaning jobs, their little eyes go all glazie and they call you a "communist socialist".
It's difficult seeing the big picture when you are used to relying on "slogans" and "sound bytes".

You were so close. So close...

"People only hire when there is a demand". If you had stopped right there, you had it.

Building a bridge may help and it may not. If the commerce already moved and a differnt community is thriving as a result of that moved commerce and we now build the bridge and destroy that commerce in favor of the old commerce that the Ear Mark producer just fuinded with a promise to get his name on it, did we help or hurt?

There's a dandy bridge in Alaska. Did this fulfill the needs? The Alskan voters didn't think so.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

many american-made products dont have a cost-benefit to wield over chinese-made products. that is a fact that people need to deal with in considering actual solutions. lots of americans like myself have a thing for american cars and trucks, but new ones are less and less american-made. less and less dewalts are american. a wish and a prayer that folks would be patriotic at the store is a non-solution. there are real reasons consumers and manufacturers make the decisions they do and without addressing them there's not going to be any real change.

It isn't about patriotism.
I am not saying everyone should go out and buy American only.
What I am saying is the American consumer, largely due to "the Wal-Mart effect" no longer understand what "value" is.
Value in the mind of an average consumer is price. And that is pretty much it.
And anyone who has ever ran a business knows the fastest and easiest way to cut expenses is through reducing labor costs. And when you have a consumer base that is hellbent on buying what is the lowest price far and above any other factor?
You get what you pay for: A product that is made with the cheapest/fewest employees possible.

You don't credit the american people with much smarts, do you?

Value is an extremely personal cost/benifit ratio that all of perform all the time. If it on Wheaties, for instance, Wheaties is Wheaties whereever you buy it. If it's 20% less at WalMart, then why shop at the +20% place?

Hondas are assembled in Indiana with parts maunufactured in Indiana. If I plan to buy American, an I buying a Honda or a Buick? What percent of parts and labor must be in a car for it to be American made?

Value in a sweater for a kid who will outgrow it in six months is a sweater that will last six months. Will he need a sweater that will last 10 years? Same with shoes for that kid.

You need to flush the ideas you cling to regarding world competition. Don't think protectionism. Think killer app. When the computer revolution hit, that was a killer app that was applied to every individual and business in American and then the world.

The best recipe for never competing successfully with the Chinese is to decide that the ways of doing things that led to decline in the market place is the only way to do things. Figure out what needs to be done to win and do it. Right now, all you recomend is to double down on what we know will not work and then stick with it.

The Brits could not compete with Ford so they did Rolls. The Germans did Volkswagon. The Japs did Datsun and Honda and Toyota. By studying what drove the sucess of these companies, the USA reinvented their manufacturing.

Harley Davidson did not decide to continue down the drain. They changed and updated and improved. Why do you think that the jig is up for America? Americans love a good fight and this is exactly what we are heading into right now.

You seem to be recomending that we simply roll up the tents. I would suggest that we roll up our sleeves.

Wow...you put a lot of words into my mouth.
Shame that isn't what I said.

What I did say - is that the American consumer has lost what value means.
People don't buy thinking as much about quality/service/longevity than they do price. This should be obvious to a first-day business student.
The entire retail market has removed the three things I mentioned all to lower prices.
And the last thing people think of is where something was manufactured.
Sorry if I am not as cold-hearted as you seem to be.
I kinda feel guilty, or dirty if you will, if I buy a product that I know engages in slave/child labor just so I can pay less for it.

 

[loosecannon]

as long as you define "value" or the value of a transaction as a closed system in which the price and the commodity are just abstract units to be exchanged you will always be enslaved to globalization.

What might seem cheap today can turn out to be an extremely expensive price once you account for the loss of purchasing power that globalization eventually creates here as our trade, manufacturing and jobs are shipped overseas.

Deferred costs are a bitch, and yet hardly anybody accounts for them in the simplistic terms in which transactions are generally appraised.

 

[loosecannon]

You don't credit the american people with much smarts, do you?

Value is an extremely personal cost/benifit ratio that all of perform all the time. If it on Wheaties, for instance, Wheaties is Wheaties whereever you buy it. If it's 20% less at WalMart, then why shop at the +20% place?

Hondas are assembled in Indiana with parts maunufactured in Indiana. If I plan to buy American, an I buying a Honda or a Buick? What percent of parts and labor must be in a car for it to be American made?

Value in a sweater for a kid who will outgrow it in six months is a sweater that will last six months. Will he need a sweater that will last 10 years? Same with shoes for that kid.

You need to flush the ideas you cling to regarding world competition. Don't think protectionism. Think killer app. When the computer revolution hit, that was a killer app that was applied to every individual and business in American and then the world.

The best recipe for never competing successfully with the Chinese is to decide that the ways of doing things that led to decline in the market place is the only way to do things. Figure out what needs to be done to win and do it. Right now, all you recomend is to double down on what we know will not work and then stick with it.

The Brits could not compete with Ford so they did Rolls. The Germans did Volkswagon. The Japs did Datsun and Honda and Toyota. By studying what drove the sucess of these companies, the USA reinvented their manufacturing.

Harley Davidson did not decide to continue down the drain. They changed and updated and improved. Why do you think that the jig is up for America? Americans love a good fight and this is exactly what we are heading into right now.

You seem to be recomending that we simply roll up the tents. I would suggest that we roll up our sleeves.

epic fail. You are doing two dimensional accounting in a 4 dimensional world.

 

[MikeK]

Well, laying a 90% tax rate on the Big Bad Businesses is sure as hell not going to solve the problem. They wouldn't be doing much hiring with a 10% budget on hiring, expansion, supplies, benefits, materials, utilities, and everything else that falls under "running a business."

My suggestion would be to get the government the hell out of business; get rid of unions. Under the current economic/job situation employers are going to be very wary of doing a lot of hiring.

Granny,

The 91% progressive tax rate was in effect throughout the most prosperous and productive years in our history. The decline began when Ronald Reagan commenced his corporatist policies of deregulation and tax reduction.

The 91% progressive tax rate affects profits, not operating costs. And the only individuals who will pay the full 91% tax bill are those multi-billionaires who do nothing but cash multi-million dollar dividend checks and produce absolutely nothing. The rest will take advantage of the many practical exemptions.

So don't be taken in by neo-Conservative corporatist propaganda.

Regards,

Grandpa.

 

[kostovski]

i dont think the kostovski plan is all that brilliant, but 25% of labor costs is a big deal to me. i would imagine such would be the same for many other employers.

i propose hitting the whole labor pool with similar subsidy, not just the unemployed. obviously endowing only the unemployed would create problems with incumbent employees.

The person getting hired only receives a job, they do not get anything different from incumbent employees. The employer gets the income tax that would have gone to the IRS, which is his incentive to hire someone who is unemployed. To offer it to the whole labor pool would mean the government would collect no income tax.

 

[code1211]

You don't credit the american people with much smarts, do you?

Value is an extremely personal cost/benifit ratio that all of perform all the time. If it on Wheaties, for instance, Wheaties is Wheaties whereever you buy it. If it's 20% less at WalMart, then why shop at the +20% place?

Hondas are assembled in Indiana with parts maunufactured in Indiana. If I plan to buy American, an I buying a Honda or a Buick? What percent of parts and labor must be in a car for it to be American made?

Value in a sweater for a kid who will outgrow it in six months is a sweater that will last six months. Will he need a sweater that will last 10 years? Same with shoes for that kid.

You need to flush the ideas you cling to regarding world competition. Don't think protectionism. Think killer app. When the computer revolution hit, that was a killer app that was applied to every individual and business in American and then the world.

The best recipe for never competing successfully with the Chinese is to decide that the ways of doing things that led to decline in the market place is the only way to do things. Figure out what needs to be done to win and do it. Right now, all you recomend is to double down on what we know will not work and then stick with it.

The Brits could not compete with Ford so they did Rolls. The Germans did Volkswagon. The Japs did Datsun and Honda and Toyota. By studying what drove the sucess of these companies, the USA reinvented their manufacturing.

Harley Davidson did not decide to continue down the drain. They changed and updated and improved. Why do you think that the jig is up for America? Americans love a good fight and this is exactly what we are heading into right now.

You seem to be recomending that we simply roll up the tents. I would suggest that we roll up our sleeves.

epic fail. You are doing two dimensional accounting in a 4 dimensional world.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that there is no global economy or that the USA should avoid becoming a part of it?

 

[code1211]

It isn't about patriotism.
I am not saying everyone should go out and buy American only.
What I am saying is the American consumer, largely due to "the Wal-Mart effect" no longer understand what "value" is.
Value in the mind of an average consumer is price. And that is pretty much it.
And anyone who has ever ran a business knows the fastest and easiest way to cut expenses is through reducing labor costs. And when you have a consumer base that is hellbent on buying what is the lowest price far and above any other factor?
You get what you pay for: A product that is made with the cheapest/fewest employees possible.

You don't credit the american people with much smarts, do you?

Value is an extremely personal cost/benifit ratio that all of perform all the time. If it on Wheaties, for instance, Wheaties is Wheaties whereever you buy it. If it's 20% less at WalMart, then why shop at the +20% place?

Hondas are assembled in Indiana with parts maunufactured in Indiana. If I plan to buy American, an I buying a Honda or a Buick? What percent of parts and labor must be in a car for it to be American made?

Value in a sweater for a kid who will outgrow it in six months is a sweater that will last six months. Will he need a sweater that will last 10 years? Same with shoes for that kid.

You need to flush the ideas you cling to regarding world competition. Don't think protectionism. Think killer app. When the computer revolution hit, that was a killer app that was applied to every individual and business in American and then the world.

The best recipe for never competing successfully with the Chinese is to decide that the ways of doing things that led to decline in the market place is the only way to do things. Figure out what needs to be done to win and do it. Right now, all you recomend is to double down on what we know will not work and then stick with it.

The Brits could not compete with Ford so they did Rolls. The Germans did Volkswagon. The Japs did Datsun and Honda and Toyota. By studying what drove the sucess of these companies, the USA reinvented their manufacturing.

Harley Davidson did not decide to continue down the drain. They changed and updated and improved. Why do you think that the jig is up for America? Americans love a good fight and this is exactly what we are heading into right now.

You seem to be recomending that we simply roll up the tents. I would suggest that we roll up our sleeves.

Wow...you put a lot of words into my mouth.
Shame that isn't what I said.

What I did say - is that the American consumer has lost what value means.
People don't buy thinking as much about quality/service/longevity than they do price. This should be obvious to a first-day business student.
The entire retail market has removed the three things I mentioned all to lower prices.
And the last thing people think of is where something was manufactured.
Sorry if I am not as cold-hearted as you seem to be.
I kinda feel guilty, or dirty if you will, if I buy a product that I know engages in slave/child labor just so I can pay less for it.

Something that the first year business student does not know, but that every successful businessperson understands is that the customer defines quality.

If the customer does not share your definition of quality, you will soon be out of business.

If you feel that the only way to be successful as an American businessperson is to educate the customers who just "don't get it", your business plan is doomed before it starts.

If your product is recognized as a commodity, then price is the only point of differentiation. If you recognize your product as something other than a commodity, but the customers do not, you have a problem. You may be selling Zenith TV's in a world that prefers Vizios. Good luck.

 

[antagon]

i dont think the kostovski plan is all that brilliant, but 25% of labor costs is a big deal to me. i would imagine such would be the same for many other employers.

i propose hitting the whole labor pool with similar subsidy, not just the unemployed. obviously endowing only the unemployed would create problems with incumbent employees.

The person getting hired only receives a job, they do not get anything different from incumbent employees. The employer gets the income tax that would have gone to the IRS, which is his incentive to hire someone who is unemployed. To offer it to the whole labor pool would mean the government would collect no income tax.

well, i dig the tax transfer thing. i just think employers should get some expensability for their labor outlay. however you manage it, an issue is created whereby employed folks are imperilled by endowing unemployed with a cash rebate. the option to layoff people and hire subsidized employees is real. i dont dig that aspect of the solution either.

 

[antagon]

That's very unpatriotic and disempowering Antagon.

well, shux, man. blame it on the pragmatism.

personally, i have 6 vehicles made in america and all that good stuff, but the hope, at a policy level, that there's a solution in peoples attitudes about how they spend is not practical.

with products and services, we have to recognize what 'good' is and empower our businesses to provide it where they can. nothing will change our relationship with producer states entirely... nothing short of cutting wages and quality of life to suit that neighborhood. i think the most prudent approach is supporting our labor force directly rather than presuming we know exactly where or how. certainly targeting the flow of goods at market is a major failure in observing the basis of our economy.[/QUOTE]

 

[loosecannon]

You don't credit the american people with much smarts, do you?

Value is an extremely personal cost/benifit ratio that all of perform all the time. If it on Wheaties, for instance, Wheaties is Wheaties whereever you buy it. If it's 20% less at WalMart, then why shop at the +20% place?

Hondas are assembled in Indiana with parts maunufactured in Indiana. If I plan to buy American, an I buying a Honda or a Buick? What percent of parts and labor must be in a car for it to be American made?

Value in a sweater for a kid who will outgrow it in six months is a sweater that will last six months. Will he need a sweater that will last 10 years? Same with shoes for that kid.

You need to flush the ideas you cling to regarding world competition. Don't think protectionism. Think killer app. When the computer revolution hit, that was a killer app that was applied to every individual and business in American and then the world.

The best recipe for never competing successfully with the Chinese is to decide that the ways of doing things that led to decline in the market place is the only way to do things. Figure out what needs to be done to win and do it. Right now, all you recomend is to double down on what we know will not work and then stick with it.

The Brits could not compete with Ford so they did Rolls. The Germans did Volkswagon. The Japs did Datsun and Honda and Toyota. By studying what drove the sucess of these companies, the USA reinvented their manufacturing.

Harley Davidson did not decide to continue down the drain. They changed and updated and improved. Why do you think that the jig is up for America? Americans love a good fight and this is exactly what we are heading into right now.

You seem to be recomending that we simply roll up the tents. I would suggest that we roll up our sleeves.

epic fail. You are doing two dimensional accounting in a 4 dimensional world.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that there is no global economy or that the USA should avoid becoming a part of it?

I am saying that there is a global economy and that the full costs of a transaction are not measured in commodity and price. There are deferred elements of a transaction that also have significant value altho they may not be apparent. Buying exported goods as an example involves increasing the trade deficit, encourages our jobs to be shipped abroad and deprives us of money that could be circulating within our own nation generating more economic growth.

 

[code1211]

Well, laying a 90% tax rate on the Big Bad Businesses is sure as hell not going to solve the problem. They wouldn't be doing much hiring with a 10% budget on hiring, expansion, supplies, benefits, materials, utilities, and everything else that falls under "running a business."

My suggestion would be to get the government the hell out of business; get rid of unions. Under the current economic/job situation employers are going to be very wary of doing a lot of hiring.

How do you get the government "out of business" and get rid of "unions"? Who's going to get rid of the Unions?

Why don't you post the conservative mantra..

"Have government back our corporatist overlords."

At least that would be honest.

You guys have no concern for people that are struggling.

None.

Even if it's yourself.

You think its a fucking lottery to get rich in this country. It ain't.

To the contrary. It is not the Conservative who believes that life is a lottery in this country.

Life is a series of choices and challenges and breaks and busts. These things happen to everyone and everyone must navigate through them. Working to achieve something that is planned and winning the lottery are two very different things.

I do have a concern for people that are struggling. I have been that people for a good portion of my life. Thankfully, when I've had to fall back on something, there was something there to fall back onto. In most cases, it was there because I put it there.

The greatest piece of luck I ever had was being born where I was and when I was. After that, it was not a matter of getting lucky to make it. It was simply a matter of not screwing up so badly that not even the USA economy could drag me along with it.

If you are incapable of taking care of yourself in the USA, you have a real problem. If that problem is choosing to game the system before trying to work to achieve, you have an even more real problem.

Our problems that reside within us are the hardest to identify and to correct.

 

[code1211]

A radical idea.

Freeze all current stocks at their present price. They can go down if selling but not up.

The only investments allowed to float would be either businesses doing expansion/hiring, entrepenurial new ventures or those involved in serious research and development. Penalize any stocks that moved operations overseas with higher rates of capital gains taxes.

And what of the businesses that maintain a steady workforce, but are only holding their own? Do we torpedoe these folks?

 

[code1211]

Well, laying a 90% tax rate on the Big Bad Businesses is sure as hell not going to solve the problem. They wouldn't be doing much hiring with a 10% budget on hiring, expansion, supplies, benefits, materials, utilities, and everything else that falls under "running a business."

My suggestion would be to get the government the hell out of business; get rid of unions. Under the current economic/job situation employers are going to be very wary of doing a lot of hiring.

Granny,

The 91% progressive tax rate was in effect throughout the most prosperous and productive years in our history. The decline began when Ronald Reagan commenced his corporatist policies of deregulation and tax reduction.

The 91% progressive tax rate affects profits, not operating costs. And the only individuals who will pay the full 91% tax bill are those multi-billionaires who do nothing but cash multi-million dollar dividend checks and produce absolutely nothing. The rest will take advantage of the many practical exemptions.

So don't be taken in by neo-Conservative corporatist propaganda.

Regards,

Grandpa.

So the economy was perfect until Reagan cut taxes in 1982? Perfect during the Malaise years, the Oil Embargo, the Whip Inflation Now and the Stagflation days?

Perfect when the American Auto Makers discovered that additional Chrome did not mean additional sales? Perfect when Zenith and RCA discovered that Panasonic could make TV's, too? Perfect when the remnants of the Arsenal of Democracy was re-named as the Rust Belt?

In 1976, I graduated from college with 3 degrees and had to take a job as an assistant manager at a hamburger stand because the economy was perfect?

Is that your thesis?

 

[code1211]

epic fail. You are doing two dimensional accounting in a 4 dimensional world.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that there is no global economy or that the USA should avoid becoming a part of it?

I am saying that there is a global economy and that the full costs of a transaction are not measured in commodity and price. There are deferred elements of a transaction that also have significant value altho they may not be apparent. Buying exported goods as an example involves increasing the trade deficit, encourages our jobs to be shipped abroad and deprives us of money that could be circulating within our own nation generating more economic growth.

I understand that.

What I am asking is how do you intend to to implement this? Are you suggesting that withdrawing from the global economy is the only solution?

Have you concluded that, given the current world markets, the USA and the residents of the USA are simply incapable of competing successfully on the world stage?

 

[loosecannon]

I am saying we need to look beyond the cheap sticker price and consider the longer term costs when we assign our purchasing power.

 

[code1211]

I am saying we need to look beyond the cheap sticker price and consider the longer term costs when we assign our purchasing power.

What parameters are you suggesting be used to justify the assignment of purchasing power?

 

[loosecannon]

Relying on Chinese made goods is like buying items on credit. The initial purchase price is affordable but you ultimately have to keep paying for the product over a long period of time, as erosion of our/your economy results inevitably from the trade deficit and the transfer of money supply across the oceans.

The only thing that has somewhat shielded us from direct consequence of this effect is that we have the unique ability to print money that the world needs to meet commodity consumption increase.

But someday that effect will reverse and the cumulative effect of all those small purchases and massive wealth redistribution will manifest in a stark reversal of fortunes.

That is what consumers should consider before they commit their purchasing power.

 

[code1211]

Relying on Chinese made goods is like buying items on credit. The initial purchase price is affordable but you ultimately have to keep paying for the product over a long period of time, as erosion of our/your economy results inevitably from the trade deficit and the transfer of money supply across the oceans.

The only thing that has somewhat shielded us from direct consequence of this effect is that we have the unique ability to print money that the world needs to meet commodity consumption increase.

But someday that effect will reverse and the cumulative effect of all those small purchases and massive wealth redistribution will manifest in a stark reversal of fortunes.

That is what consumers should consider before they commit their purchasing power.

The artificial propping up of an inferior product will only prolong the waiting period before the bottom falls out. I don't know how old you are, but if you're as old as I am, then you remember the talk that the Big 3 would soon be out of business because they could not build a car. That was not last year. It was 1975.

The answer to the problem was not to embargo Datsun. The answer was to build a better car.

If the only answer we have is to stop imports either by consumer boycott or by government intervention, the game is already lost. There is another answer and that answer is to do it better, faster and stronger than anyone else can do it.

That's the only way to play this game. Any other approach is surrender.

 

[loosecannon]

Then we better look forward to cutting our wages and living standards in half.