I Urge Israel To Take Out Iran's Nuke Plant. You?

[Ringel05]

It's your call. If you decide to believe that "Kalam" is a meticulously maintained alter-ego that I use to propagate radical Islam, there's not much I can do to stop you.

Once again, I have indicated a conundrum and asked a specific question, which both you and Sunni Man keep avoiding. Help me out here.

You said this:

More of a statement and question, not necessarily an accusation. However understand this, (I had this conversation with Sunniman), I am an infidel, therefore to many Islamists it is perfectly ok to lie to, cheat, steal from and kill me without it being considered a sin. You can tell me you are not one of those but I honestly have no way to tell if you are being truthful.​

I responded to you directly here:

It's your call. If you decide to believe that "Kalam" is a meticulously maintained alter-ego that I use to propagate radical Islam, there's not much I can do to stop you.​

I'm not sure what it is you want me to do...

Read post #99

 

[Kalam]

Once again, I have indicated a conundrum and asked a specific question, which both you and Sunni Man keep avoiding. Help me out here.

Dude, these guys' thoughts originate in their tin foil turbans. Who gives a crap what they think?

Thanks for weighing in, Cleetus. Excuse me while I readjust my "turban."

 

[Kalam]

Read post #99

Okay...?

 

[Si modo]

Ringle's point is not difficult, for crap's sake. Tacit approval is approval. Edmund Burke had some very wise words on the danger of such tacit approval as well: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Bullshit pussyfooting disguised in irrelevant verbosity is boring and still equates to tacit approval.

 

[Ringel05]

Read post #99

Okay...?

Ok you read it, or ok you don't know where it is?
(I'll be back in about an hour).

 

[Kalam]

Read post #99

Okay...?

Ok you read it, or ok you don't know where it is?
(I'll be back in about an hour).

I read it and am still not sure what you'd like me to do. I'm clearly missing something.

 

[Ringel05]

Okay...?

Ok you read it, or ok you don't know where it is?
(I'll be back in about an hour).

I read it and am still not sure what you'd like me to do. I'm clearly missing something.

You specifically, I doubt it but you in conjunction with the leaders of the main-stream Islamic community, tons.
One of the biggest challenges are peoples are judged (rightly or wrongly) by the excesses of their extreme members. Because of the actions by the Islamist radicals the west (general population) views most or all Islam as radical, uneducated and terrorist in nature. To mitigate and hopefully remove much of the misconception the world wide main-stream Islamic community needs to stop giving (mostly) lip-service to fighting these elements and expose and isolate the radicals that hide within their midst. It is the radicals that are giving Islam a bad name and until they are dealt with by the moderate and conservative elements within Islam then the negative perceptions will persist.
The issue with this is many Muslims give lip-service, do a wag-the-dog with capturing/killing some "terrorists" and continue to support terrorist organizations world wide. The Saudis and Pakistanis are famous for this, their actions along these lines are well known within the IC.
Also by doing nothing to inhibit or stop the radicals, implied acceptance and/or willful collaboration can only be assumed (remember, perception is everything).
So If the Islamic community truly wants understanding and acceptance from the west then they must step up to the plate and change the established perceptions.

 

[Contumacious]

Israel did our dirty work in '82 when they bombed Iraq, .

WHY was it the US responsibility to attack Iraq's Osirak reactor?

.

 

[MaggieMae]

Israel has a right to exist, but if it nukes Iran, it won't exist thereafter. Israel is the geographic size of New Jersey and is surrounded by hostile nations. It wouldn't stand a chance of surviving retaliation.

did i miss something? i didn't see any suggestion that Israel nuke Iran. The suggestion was that Israel take out Iran's nuclear capability.

And you presume that the moderate Arab states would be troubled by Iran being de-nuked. I think that's a leap.

How would they "take out" (bomb) Iran's nuclear sites without the risk of setting off a nuclear explosion? Does the IAEA yet know how far along Iran has come with building weapons grade bombs from uranium or plutonium (which they have)?

Iran's neighbors are Saudi Arabia (quasi friendly) and Jordan (friendly for now), and Syria and Iran (NOT friendly). Israel might be resting on its laurels from successfully taking out Syria's nuclear facility, but I'll bet that wasn't enough to deter Syria completely. After all, thereafter weren't they trying to buy some nuclear goodies from North Korea?

 

[HUGGY]

what the hell do you mean israel doesnt have the right to exist.

Ok, YOU dont have the right to exist. Someone should come to your house forcibly remove you and kill you, because well, you dont have the right to exist let alone defend yourself

Idiot

It's a no brainer. Self defense. Whena leader publicly decalres a desire to kill you and then is as close to nuke weapons as Iran is...bah!

Amazing, the Zionut Entity has not right to exist , let alone invade Iran. Indirectly, you are asking that the US gets involved because when Iran retaliates the Obama administration will claim that it had "no choice" but to attack Iran.


.

Threatening a member of USMB is a no no.

 

[MaggieMae]

i urge israel to do what it feels is in her best intrest, they dont need permission from us, jst as we do not need permission from anyone else to do what we see as the right thing for our national security

They don't need permission? Then why do we continue to give them $2-$3 billion annually in foreign aid, almost all of it designated for military support? If the United States is a limited partner in Israel's military endeavors, I think we have a right to know if they plan to lob bombs at some other country which conceivably could draw us into another full-fledged military conflict.

 

[Contumacious]

They don't need permission? Then why do we continue to give them $2-$3 billion annually in foreign aid, almost all of it designated for military support? .

The aid is closer to 4 - 6 billion - over 100 BBBBBBBBBillion since 1947.

The US pays that kind of money in order to have the pleasure of them telling the US what to do. Try not to forget that.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

 

[xotoxi]

Rename the state! Don't confuse it with the other religions.

Juland.

 

[MaggieMae]

YouTube - Dealing with Iran Scott Ritter September 29 2009

There's also a wealth of information not even discussed yet in this thread found here in Zakaria's discussion among a panel of experts on Iran last Sunday. A few considerations are the increasingly pro-American citizens of Iran, and questions over whether Hamas and/or Hezbollah would offer support for Iran by increased attacks on Jerusalem from only a few miles away and start bombing Lebanon again.

CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[Contumacious]

YouTube - Dealing with Iran Scott Ritter September 29 2009

There's also a wealth of information not even discussed yet in this thread found here in Zakaria's discussion among a panel of experts on Iran last Sunday. A few considerations are the increasingly pro-American citizens of Iran, and questions over whether Hamas and/or Hezbollah would offer support for Iran by increased attacks on Jerusalem from only a few miles away and start bombing Lebanon again.

CNN.com - Transcripts

It behooves Hezbollah to assist Iran since the zionuts have been trying to annex Southern Lebanon - from the Litani River - for quite sometime now.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

YouTube - Dealing with Iran Scott Ritter September 29 2009

There's also a wealth of information not even discussed yet in this thread found here in Zakaria's discussion among a panel of experts on Iran last Sunday. A few considerations are the increasingly pro-American citizens of Iran, and questions over whether Hamas and/or Hezbollah would offer support for Iran by increased attacks on Jerusalem from only a few miles away and start bombing Lebanon again.

CNN.com - Transcripts

Hezbollah is a creature of the Iranians. To think they would act independently is to be sadly deluded about the nature of the world. Of course they will launch attacks.

 

[MaggieMae]

Because that's part and parcel of being a Muslim, right?

I'd familiarize myself with the religious views of my opponent before I dove headlong into accusing him of supporting radical Islam.

OK.
Kalam, do you support "radical Islam"? And how do you define "radical Islam"?

Support for the national Sovereignty of Islamic Republics.

/

Al Qaeda, Hezbullah and Hamas are not Islamic "Republics." They are Islamic terrorist organizations, period. The vast majority of the world's 1.8 billion Muslims are peaceful.

 

[MaggieMae]

Israel did our dirty work in '82 when they bombed Iraq, got no problem with them taking out Iran's nukes, especially when the current pussy sitting in the White House has no clue what he's doing.

More concerned about Al Qaeda though, and Obama's lack of a plan for dealing with them and Afghanistan.

What would you suggest, genius? Are you upset that Obama hasn't sent you a private memo detailing his plans for al-Qaeda? Or could it be that the organization is just as elusive as it ever was, probably headquartered in Pakistan now, and the US can't very well invade that country since it too has nuclear capability.

 

[mightypeon]

My view on the matter:

1: If I would be Iranian I would try to get Nukes.
The US has proved with its handling of Aghanistan, North Korea and Iraq that Having Nukes is the way to be safe from invasion.
Secondly, Israel and Pakistan have nukes, Pakistan would be a rival for who is the biggest Muslim (Turkey is propably quasi nuclear, although not as quasi nuclear as Germany, with quasi Nuclear I mean the abilitiy to get Nukes before anyone could react), Israel has a penchant of shooting at nuke less states too.
Even if getting Nukes fails, Iran may get significant concessions (I would not settle for less than a formal and binding Russian, Chinese and US guarantee of independence though) for ceasing this programm.

2: Concerning Israel: If I would be Iranian I would not see a significant benefit from needslessly antagonising them. I would certainly do some Erdogan like moves in Davos if the situation presents itself, but there is little reason to use nukes first if demographics mean that one can afford to just wait.

 

[Liability]

It's a no brainer. Self defense. Whena leader publicly decalres a desire to kill you and then is as close to nuke weapons as Iran is...bah!

WE have the capability to do it.

WE have the needed bunker-buster type bombs.

WE can fly over Iraq. It's not at all clear that Israel can.

ISRAEL is the one who faces immediate and furious and insane reprisals -- no matter who takes out the Iranian nuclear plants.

So it boils down to three options.

(1) We permit Israel to act as our surrogate and do the deed. Our help would be needed to get to Iran.

(2) We stop acting like pussies and we do it ourselves (at great immediate risk to Israel).

(3) We elect to do nothing and have nobody act like a surrogate, and Iran ends up with nukes.

What we should do is an open question, but I will bet you that I know exactly what we WILL do. Option #3. President Obama is simply not up to the job.