I know what islam is really about

[THE LIGHT]

• Kill all of the men
• Kill all of the non-virgin women
• Kill all of the male children
• Rape all of the female children.

Um... where do you find the word rape in there?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Do You have Equal Justice in there anywhere,

You'll have to be more specific...

or Inalienable Rights,

The right to life and freedom of conscience can be extrapolated from the verses I've posted so far.

of Freedom to choose Your own Religion,

Yes.

There is no compulsion in matter of faith. Distinct is the way of guidance now from error. He who turns away from the forces of evil and believes in God, will surely hold fast to a handle that is strong and unbreakable, for God hears all and knows everything. - 2:256

If your Lord had willed, all the people on the earth would have come to believe, one and all. Are you going to compel the people to believe except by God's dispensation? He puts doubt in those who do not think. - 10:99-100

Say: "The truth is from your Lord: So believe if you like, or do not believe if you will." We have prepared for the sinners a fire which will envelope them in its tent. If they ask for water they will be helped to liquid like molten brass that would scald their mouths. How evil the drink, and evil the resting-place! But surely We do not let the reward of those who believe and do the right to go waste. - 18:29-30

To you your religion, to me my religion. - 109:6​

or Slavery is Bad? Call me when you get there, and we'll compare notes.

It is clear that Muhammad (SAWS) intended for slavery to be gradually phased out.

This is one of my favorite passages:

Piety does not lie in turning your face to East or West: Piety lies in believing in God, the Last Day and the angels, the Scriptures and the prophets, and disbursing your wealth out of love for God among your kin and the orphans, the wayfarers and mendicants, freeing the slaves, observing your devotional obligations, and in paying the zakat and fulfilling a pledge you have given, and being patient in hardship, adversity, and times of peril. These are the men who affirm the truth, and they are those who follow the straight path. - 2:177
​

Christianity and Judaism improved themselves by drifting away from their scriptures. We Muslims will improve ourselves by holding fast to Islam and the Qur'an.

You managed to get almost all of your distortions, misinterprationions and verbal slight of hand in one meanlingless post Good job

 

[SmarterThanHick]

You managed to get almost all of your distortions, misinterprationions and verbal slight of hand in one meanlingless post Good job

Can you refute a single passage? Can you show where he mislead or mistranslated anything?

No. No you can't.

What you do, instead, is come here with NO knowledge of the Qu'ran, claiming the person who is citing it line for line is doing it wrong. Anyone can say "no you're wrong". I can claim you type like a lost raccoon! Just don't expect anyone to believe a word of what you say unless you SUPPORT it.

So either show where he misrepresented his religion by providing counter-evidence from the Qu'ran, or don't bother hitting the reply button.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

You managed to get almost all of your distortions, misinterprationions and verbal slight of hand in one meanlingless post Good job

Can you refute a single passage? Can you show where he mislead or mistranslated anything?

No. No you can't.

What you do, instead, is come here with NO knowledge of the Qu'ran, claiming the person who is citing it line for line is doing it wrong. Anyone can say "no you're wrong". I can claim you type like a lost raccoon! Just don't expect anyone to believe a word of what you say unless you SUPPORT it.

So either show where he misrepresented his religion by providing counter-evidence from the Qu'ran, or don't bother hitting the reply button.

Been there done that.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/81748-islam-forbids.html

 

[Sunni Man]

Only in your mind Mr Fitnuts..............only in your mind.......

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Only in your mind Mr Fitnuts..............only in your mind.......

Please post a link that proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

let's look at where you quote the Qu'ran.

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out."

Notice the "them" in that first sentence? It's referring to something in the passage preceding that line. You did a good job of copying and pasting that from another website, but your error was also that you took a sentence out of context. Let's take a look at the line before it, and the actual translation of 2:191:

Rules of War*

[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

So not only did you purposely take the line out of context to twist it to your own purposes, but you used a mistranslation as well. But hey, you probably just blindly copied and pasted it from some other ignorant hick anyway.

You're the reason America is the target of terrorist organizations: ignorance breeding hatred.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

let's look at where you quote the Qu'ran.

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out."

Notice the "them" in that first sentence? It's referring to something in the passage preceding that line. You did a good job of copying and pasting that from another website, but your error was also that you took a sentence out of context. Let's take a look at the line before it, and the actual translation of 2:191:

Rules of War*

[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

So not only did you purposely take the line out of context to twist it to your own purposes, but you used a mistranslation as well. But hey, you probably just blindly copied and pasted it from some other ignorant hick anyway.

You're the reason America is the target of terrorist organizations: ignorance breeding hatred.

2:190.
And fight in the Way of Allâh[] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].
2:191.
And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[] unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192.
But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
The Noble Quran : Surat 2

let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Sunni Man]

Only in your mind Mr Fitnuts..............only in your mind.......

Please post a link that proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent.

Several people here have meet your challenge, and refuted every idiotic accusation your little Islamophobic mind could dream up.

So give it up Mr Fitnuts, you lost the battle a long, long time ago.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Only in your mind Mr Fitnuts..............only in your mind.......

Please post a link that proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent.

Several people here have meet your challenge, and refuted every idiotic accusation your little Islamophobic mind could dream up.

So give it up Mr Fitnuts, you lost the battle a long, long time ago.

Please post a link that proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

yes - we just went over that passage. It says "do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors." or in your mangled translation "but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors." Your version doesn't even make sense in English - that should tell you about the quality of the translation - why are you even using it?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

yes - we just went over that passage. It says "do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors." or in your mangled translation "but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors." Your version doesn't even make sense in English - that should tell you about the quality of the translation - why are you even using it?

I use that translation because it does not try to shoehorn bias into the translation where no direct translation of a word exists.

Allah goes onto in the ayat 193 to command transgression against disbelievers.

The translation by Muhammad Khan and distributed by “King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur’an—The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

meanwhile let's look at the Christian bible:

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroya them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

The Lord said to Moses, "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

And he sent you on a mission, saying, "Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out."

I could go on, but the rules of war inthe bible are essentially the same as in the Qu'ran.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

meanwhile let's look at the Christian bible:

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroya them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

The Lord said to Moses, "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

And he sent you on a mission, saying, "Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out."

I could go on, but the rules of war inthe bible are essentially the same as in the Qu'ran.

Moving the goal posts, deflection, logical fallacy.
Noted
The OT verse describe a time and place
Quran commandments are open ended

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Definition of fitnah:

1 – The word fitnah from a linguistic point of view:

Al-Azhari said: “The Arabic word fitnah includes meanings of testing and trial. The root is taken from the phrase fatantu al-fiddah wa’l-dhahab (I assayed (tested the quality of) the silver and gold), meaning I melted the metals to separate the bad from the good. Similarly, Allaah says in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning): ‘(It will be) a Day when they will be tried [yuftanoona] (punished, i.e. burnt) over the Fire!’ [al-Dhaariyaat 51:13], meaning, burning them with fire.” (Tahdheeb al-Lughah, 14/196).

Ibn Faaris said: “Fa-ta-na is a sound root which indicates testing or trial.” (Maqaayees al-Lughah, 4/472). This is the basic meaning of the word fitnah in Arabic.

Ibn al-Atheer said: “Fitnah: trial or test… The word is often used to describe tests in which something disliked is eliminated. Later it was also often used in the sense of sin, kufr (disbelief), fighting, burning, removing and diverting.” (al-Nihaayah, 3/410. Ibn Hajar said something similar in al-Fath, 13/3).

Ibn al-A’raabi summed up the meanings of fitnah when he said: “Fitnah means testing, fitnah means trial, fitnah means wealth, fitnah means children, fitnah means kufr, fitnah means differences of opinion among people, fitnah means burning with fire.” (Lisaan al-‘Arab by Ibn Manzoor).

2 – Meanings of the word fitnah in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

1- Testing and trial, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: ‘We believe, and will not be tested [la yuftanoon]” [al-‘Ankaboot 29:2]

i.e., that they will not be subjected to trial, as Ibn Jareer said.

In other words Islam cannot be questioned or examined

2- Blocking the way and turning people away, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“but beware of them lest they turn you [yaftinooka] (O Muhammad) far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you” [al-Maa’idah 5:49]

Al-Qurtubi said: this means blocking your way and turning you away.

3- Persecution, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then, verily, your Lord for those who emigrated after they had been put to trials [futinoo] and thereafter strove hard and fought (for the Cause of Allaah) and were patient, verily, your Lord afterward is, Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful” [al-Nahl 16:110]

Put to trial means persecuted.

4- Shirk and kufr, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allaah)” [al-Baqarah 2:193]

Ibn Katheer said: this means shirk (worshipping others besides Allaah).

5- Falling into sin and hypocrisy, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“(The hypocrites) will call the believers: “Were we not with you?” The believers will reply: “Yes! But you led yourselves into temptations [fatantum anfusakum], you looked forward for our destruction; you doubted (in Faith) and you were deceived by false desires” [al-Hadeed 57:14]

Al-Baghawi said: i.e., you made yourselves fall into hypocrisy and you destroyed yourselves by means of sin and whims and desires.

Snip

Islam Question and Answer - Meanings of the word fitnah in the Qur’aan

 

[Intense]

meanwhile let's look at the Christian bible:

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroya them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

The Lord said to Moses, "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

And he sent you on a mission, saying, "Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out."

I could go on, but the rules of war inthe bible are essentially the same as in the Qu'ran.

None of that applies today. That is the point of difference STH. I am free to reject and so are you. Not the case in Islam. Apples and oranges.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

so despite all those passages with have been pointed out that expressly describe the dislike of their God to starting aggression, it doesn't count?

that's basically what you're saying, eh? How do you resolve the discrepancy in what you're saying?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

so despite all those passages with have been pointed out that expressly describe the dislike of their God to starting aggression, it doesn't count?

that's basically what you're saying, eh? How do you resolve the discrepancy in what you're saying?

An example of the abrogation: there are 124 versus that call for tolerance and patience which have been canceled and replaced by this one single verse:

9.5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quran, there are only 43 Surahs that were not affected by this concept.

This doctrine is based on the Quran, where Allah allegedly says in Surah 2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allâh is able to do all things?

Also, in Surah
16:101. And when We change a Verse [of the Qur'ân, i.e. cancel (abrogate) its order] in place of another, and Allâh knows the best of what He sends down, they (the disbelievers) say: "You (O Muhammad SAW) are but a Muftari! (forger, liar)." Nay, but most of them know not.
The Noble Quran : Surat 16

The Abrogator and the Abrogated
In their attempt to polish Islam's image, Muslim activists usually quote the Meccan passages of the Quran that call for love, peace and patience. The deliberately hid the Medenan passages that call for killing, decapitating, and maiming.

Muslim activists also fail to reveal to people in the West a major doctrine in Islam called "al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh" (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). This simply means that when a recent verse in the Quran gives a contradictory view to another verse that preceded it (chronologically), the recent verse abrogates (cancels and replaces) the old verse and renders it null and void.

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

so despite all those passages with have been pointed out that expressly describe the dislike of their God to starting aggression, it doesn't count?

that's basically what you're saying, eh? How do you resolve the discrepancy in what you're saying?

There is no compulsion to accept Islam

Question:
Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
[Yoonus 10:99]
“There is no compulsion in religion”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]
What is your opinion concerning that?.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say,“if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah,(2) nor in the Last Day,(3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad),(4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.
These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.
These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.
These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219


Islam Question and Answer - There is no compulsion to accept Islam

 

[Intense]

so despite all those passages with have been pointed out that expressly describe the dislike of their God to starting aggression, it doesn't count?

that's basically what you're saying, eh? How do you resolve the discrepancy in what you're saying?

I'm not sure of the driving force behind the inquiries STH, so I ask again what is your Faith, Your Foundation?

There is no discrepancy in what I'm saying. Christianity is not bound the same way Islam is. Some may choose to live in the past, but each action is a Conscious Choice, and stands or falls on It's own Merritt. We are accountable To Our Maker Through Conscience, that is True under All Banners, whether Recognized or not. The Point is to be aware of All Pitfalls, regardless of their origin. You are being bombarded with evidence yet it has little to no effect.

We do Not live under the Old Testament.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Only in your mind Mr Fitnuts..............only in your mind.......

Please post a link that proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent.

Several people here have meet your challenge, and refuted every idiotic accusation your little Islamophobic mind could dream up.

So give it up Mr Fitnuts, you lost the battle a long, long time ago.

Sunnidiot......you have stated several times that you are a shrink on these boards.

Fitnah is speaking out in FAVOR of Islam.

Exactly how the fuck is that "islamophobic"? You DO realize (at least, if you really are a shrink), that "phobic" placed after a word means "fear of"?