...I just realized Lincoln was the Hitler of the 19th century.

[ABikerSailor]

Genocide would be closer to what the European Americans did to the Native Americans when they came here.

Not what happened during the Civil War.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Genocide would be closer to what the European Americans did to the Native Americans when they came here.

Not what happened during the Civil War.

Or what Sherman and Sheridan did to the plains indians after the Civil War.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A KevinKennedy assertion: The fact is that southern civilians were targeted and murdered by Union troops, and Lincoln had absolutely no problem with this.

KK, have you studied the courts-martial records for the Union Army and concluded that no courts were held for such crimes, that Lincoln pardoned soldiers convicted of such crimes and had been sentenced to death?

You have not given any evidence, thus any reader can safely ignore your statement as simply biased.

Lincoln gave the "thanks of the nation" to Sherman for his actions, and his actions included destroying the south. Sherman and Sheridan then went on from their successful destruction of the south to destroy the plains indians.

In other words, no, I haven't jake so I will give you a load of crap. KK, don't be like that moron Curve Light.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

Even though I don't agree with The War of The States in regards to how The Federal Government slaughtered fellow Americans because they stood up for their Constitutional Rights, I think it's fucking crazy to compare Lincoln to Hitler. Alot of people suffered in that War, and there is enough blame to go around on both sides, which is historically usually the case. ~BH

 

[Rogue 9]

Not caring and deliberately attempting to destroy are two very different things, though I doubt he was truly guilty of either. I'd say that you more aptly described Sherman.

Sherman and Sheridan certainly wanted to wipe out the southern population, but Lincoln gave Sherman the "thanks of the nation" for his work in the south. Hard to say he didn't want to wipe out the south when he thanked Sherman for doing exactly that.

What a crock, the both of you. Sherman's armies did not go about randomly shooting everyone they saw and you know it. Hell, they didn't even wantonly destroy all the property in sight either; you can today go to Georgia, proceed to somewhere that was in the path of Sherman's march, and hear the residents bewailing how the evil Sherman burned everything to the ground and five minutes later proudly point out examples of still standing antebellum architecture.

Besides, they shouldn't have brought it on themselves.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Not caring and deliberately attempting to destroy are two very different things, though I doubt he was truly guilty of either. I'd say that you more aptly described Sherman.

Sherman and Sheridan certainly wanted to wipe out the southern population, but Lincoln gave Sherman the "thanks of the nation" for his work in the south. Hard to say he didn't want to wipe out the south when he thanked Sherman for doing exactly that.

What a crock, the both of you. Sherman's armies did not go about randomly shooting everyone they saw and you know it. Hell, they didn't even wantonly destroy all the property in sight either; you can today go to Georgia, proceed to somewhere that was in the path of Sherman's march, and hear the residents bewailing how the evil Sherman burned everything to the ground and five minutes later proudly point out examples of still standing antebellum architecture.

Besides, they shouldn't have brought it on themselves.

You know what's really interesting Rogue?

A fanatical Christian and a Muslim are arguing about who slaughtered who.

Kinda ironic when you consider the violence of both religions.........

 

[JBeukema]

By
Besides, they shouldn't have brought it on themselves.

By exercising their constitutional right to leave the union?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not caring and deliberately attempting to destroy are two very different things, though I doubt he was truly guilty of either. I'd say that you more aptly described Sherman.

Sherman and Sheridan certainly wanted to wipe out the southern population, but Lincoln gave Sherman the "thanks of the nation" for his work in the south. Hard to say he didn't want to wipe out the south when he thanked Sherman for doing exactly that.

What a crock, the both of you. Sherman's armies did not go about randomly shooting everyone they saw and you know it. Hell, they didn't even wantonly destroy all the property in sight either; you can today go to Georgia, proceed to somewhere that was in the path of Sherman's march, and hear the residents bewailing how the evil Sherman burned everything to the ground and five minutes later proudly point out examples of still standing antebellum architecture.

Besides, they shouldn't have brought it on themselves.

Who said they shot everyone they saw? They did, however, burn down southern cities and raped, robbed, and murdered southern civilians and slaves.

 

[Rogue 9]

By
Besides, they shouldn't have brought it on themselves.

By exercising their constitutional right to leave the union?

There is no constitutional right to leave the union. Also, read the link; they did far more and worse than simply secede.

 

[paperview]

Sherman and Sheridan certainly wanted to wipe out the southern population, but Lincoln gave Sherman the "thanks of the nation" for his work in the south. Hard to say he didn't want to wipe out the south when he thanked Sherman for doing exactly that.

What a crock, the both of you. Sherman's armies did not go about randomly shooting everyone they saw and you know it. Hell, they didn't even wantonly destroy all the property in sight either; you can today go to Georgia, proceed to somewhere that was in the path of Sherman's march, and hear the residents bewailing how the evil Sherman burned everything to the ground and five minutes later proudly point out examples of still standing antebellum architecture.

Besides, they shouldn't have brought it on themselves.

Who said they shot everyone they saw? They did, however, burn down southern cities and raped, robbed, and murdered southern civilians and slaves.

And so did Confederates.

To repeat my earlier post:

Champ Ferguson
might tell you a thing or two about murdering civilians.

"...At the start of the war, Ferguson organized a unit and started attacking civilians believed to support the Union. Occasionally, his guerrilla band cooperated with Confederate military units led by Brig. Gen. John Hunt Morgan and Maj. Gen. Joseph Wheeler. Some evidence indicates Ferguson was actually made a captain of partisan rangers by Morgan. However, Ferguson's men were seldom subject to military discipline and frequently violated the normal rules of warfare.
There are legends of Ferguson's alleged sadism, including stories that he decapitated prisoners and rolled their heads down hillsides and was willing to kill elderly and bedridden men."​

How about Jefferson Davis' Partisan Ranger Act?

How about the other guerrilla forces the Confederates used?

When you acknowledge those, you have to then acknowledge the Confederate Government and the civilian South shared some of the blame for the Union's hard war policy.

 

[JBeukema]

There is no constitutional right to leave the union.

10th amendment

show me where the Constitution says they can't leave.

 

[paperview]

Don't you guys ever get tired of going around and round and around with a question the Civil War answered?

 

[theHawk]

They both committed ridiculous and pointless genocide...maybe no where near in similar methods or to the same ends, but they both killed a large enough amount of people that should taint their legacy as villainous in my opinion.

Both sides of this debate bring up good points, aside from the rediculous comparison of Lincoln to Hitler.

Legally, I think the south had the right to secede from the Union, as if was not prohibited in the Constitution at the time.
I think its important to understand the times of when the Constitution was written, it was drafted in a manner to get all the states on board, which is of course why the issue of slavery was put on the backburner at the time. They probably left out session for the same exact reason.
Unfortunately for Lincoln, this left him with no legal backing to go to war. But, he did what he thought was best for "the Union". The war may have not been legally justified but it was perhaps morally justified as the end result was the abolition of slavery.

 

[JBeukema]

The war may have not been legally justified but it was perhaps morally justified as the end result was the abolition of slavery.

Such was never the intent. The union never said they would go to war over slavery and Lincoln did nothing for the slaves in the Union.

The Union has no moral highground whatsoever.

 

[JBeukema]

Don't you guys ever get tired of going around and round and around with a question the Civil War answered?

Bullets magically make the ink on the Constitution rewrite itself?

 

[paperview]

Don't you guys ever get tired of going around and round and around with a question the Civil War answered?

Bullets magically make the ink on the Constitution rewrite itself?

No. They simply highlight the words United States.

 

[JBeukema]

subjection = unity in paper's eyes

 

[paperview]

Let us all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all."

 

[hortysir]

Let us all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all."

Now you're just poking fun

I never got a chance to elaborate on the Pledge from my earlier post:

I'm just paraphrasing because I'm, honestly, too lazy to go look it up right now. And, besides, I'm at work
But, anyways......I'd read that the Pledge originated with Union soldiers forcing the southern population (primarily children) to pledge their allegiance to the Union.

Have you read or come across this in your studies?

 

[JBeukema]

Let us all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all."

You mean the pledge written by a religious socialist who didn't include the word 'God', which was added by anticonstitutionalist rightwingers when Glenn Beck Sr was still around to keep us afraid of the Russians?