I just finished Woodward book 'Fear'

[gipper]

So he keeps calling him a liar, yet we never hear what these great lies are.

Funny he admits the whole Russia collusion thing is a sham.

Our President is a prolific liar

His biggest problem is that he is not very good at it. Most of his lies are easily disproved with actual facts

Just like your Messiah, but you can’t see that because your media won’t inform you.

 

[rightwinger]

So he keeps calling him a liar, yet we never hear what these great lies are.

Funny he admits the whole Russia collusion thing is a sham.

Our President is a prolific liar

His biggest problem is that he is not very good at it. Most of his lies are easily disproved with actual facts

Just like your Messiah, but you can’t see that because your media won’t inform you.

<sob>. but......but......What about Obama?

 

[g5000]

It is funny how many parroting rubes are willing to post the opinions they are told to have about the book without having read the book.

I bought the audiobook version, and I have listened to all but the last hour. I plan on finishing it tonight.

It is obvious who most of Woodward's sources are. Rob Porter and Gary Cohn provided most of the material. Other contributors are Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, and Lindsey Graham. There are other smaller sources who are unnamed.

Kelly was definitely not a source, but he is portrayed in nothing but a positive light by all concerned. I don't think Tillerson was a source, either, but he might have been. If so, only glancingly. It is clear both men believe Donald Trump not just to be stupid, but an actual threat to world peace. A buffoon who would initiate World War III through sheer stupidity.

The thing about sources for a political book is that each source will attempt to portray themselves in the best possible light. But sometimes a source does not realize how much of a quisling they reveal themselves to be, and that is the case with Lindsey Graham.

After "reading" this book, in some respects I came away with a better impression of Donald Trump than I had before. In other respects, Trump came out looking exactly as I have always seen him.

Here are the key takeaways I have about Trump from the book:

Trump does not want a single drop of American blood to be spilled. He agonizes whenever one of our troops is killed. As a result, Trump is a textbook isolationist. And just like with Iraq, Trump badly wants us to cut and run from Afghanistan. He is a classic liberal peacenik. The only thing stopping Trump from quitting Afghanistan is repeated warnings that this would lead to the return to power of the Taliban and an active threat to America. Another 9/11 in the waiting for which he, Trump, would be responsible.

Several times in the book, it is stated by various authorities there is no "win" possible for the US in Afghanistan. The best we can achieve is a stalemate.

In the delusional world of Donald Trump, though, all you have to do is claim you won and it becomes true. So, in my opinion, it is just a matter of time before we see the old Trump we saw during Iraq:

BLITZER: How does the United States get out of this situation?

TRUMP: You know how they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.




Next, Trump is obsessed with trade imbalances, and is totally unable to grasp that we are actually coming out way ahead in terms of security guarantees. For a small trade imbalance and the cost of maintaining a military presence in South Korea, we save much much more in defense spending by having an ally and a base of operations in a hostile region.

Trump just does not get that, no matter how much it is explained to him.

 

[g5000]

If any of these "journalists" really wanted to do anything for the country, it would be to expose the Washington gravy train and how politicians get rich off the taxpayer dime.

I know these books exist, but they get marginalized.

Actually, part of the book is devoted to exposing the sham of the Trump tax "reform".

The GOP handed over the keys to the store to special interests, and our children are going to have to pay the $1.5 trillion bill.

 

[blackhawk]

Not being as smart as one thinks they are is major problem in the country today especially in politics and it’s a problem many people in both parties have.

 

[g5000]

The book also talks about something I have pointed out many times on this forum.

Trump spends his mornings watching TV news channels. He does not come down to work until 11 am.

I have posted Trump's daily schedule many times on this forum, pointing out Trump spends only about six hours a day on the job. The bulk of his time is spent ranting at the TV, tweeting, and golfing.

Getting him to read anything longer than a page is nearly impossible. In fact, the only document he read more than a page long was a 22 page document explaining how he could fire Mueller.

 

[gipper]

It is funny how many parroting rubes are willing to post the opinions they are told to have about the book without having read the book.

I bought the audiobook version, and I have listened to all but the last hour. I plan on finishing it tonight.

It is obvious who most of Woodward's sources are. Rob Porter and Gary Cohn provided most of the material. Other contributors are Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, and Lindsey Graham. There are other smaller sources who are unnamed.

Kelly was definitely not a source, but he is portrayed in nothing but a positive light by all concerned. I don't think Tillerson was a source, either, but he might have been. If so, only glancingly. It is clear both men believe Donald Trump not just to be stupid, but an actual threat to world peace. A buffoon who would initiate World War III through sheer stupidity.

The thing about sources for a political book is that each source will attempt to portray themselves in the best possible light. But sometimes a source does not realize how much of a quisling they reveal themselves to be, and that is the case with Lindsey Graham.

After "reading" this book, in some respects I came away with a better impression of Donald Trump than I had before. In other respects, Trump came out looking exactly as I have always seen him.

Here are the key takeaways I have about Trump from the book:

Trump does not want a single drop of American blood to be spilled. He agonizes whenever one of our troops is killed. As a result, Trump is a textbook isolationist. And just like with Iraq, Trump badly wants us to cut and run from Afghanistan. He is a classic liberal peacenik. The only thing stopping Trump from quitting Afghanistan is repeated warnings that this would lead to the return to power of the Taliban and an active threat to America. Another 9/11 in the waiting for which he, Trump, would be responsible.

Several times in the book, it is stated by various authorities there is no "win" possible for the US in Afghanistan. The best we can achieve is a stalemate.

In the delusional world of Donald Trump, though, all you have to do is claim you won and it becomes true. So, in my opinion, it is just a matter of time before we see the old Trump we saw during Iraq:

BLITZER: How does the United States get out of this situation?

TRUMP: You know how they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.




Next, Trump is obsessed with trade imbalances, and is totally unable to grasp that we are actually coming out way ahead in terms of security guarantees. For a small trade imbalance and the cost of maintaining a military presence in South Korea, we save much much more in defense spending by having an ally and a base of operations in a hostile region.

Trump just does not get that, no matter how much it is explained to him.

Thank you for your take on the book. I sure hope Trump is an isolationist. That would be absolutely fantastic. He ran as a non-interventionist and I suspect this is a big reason for his winning the office. We all knew Hillary was a warmonger.

As far as Afghanland, it is way past time to get out. There is no need for our presence there and it is very unlikely they could ever hurt us again, as long as we are diligent.

We need to get out of SK too. No need to keep troops there. As such, your conclusions about trade imbalances, Trump's delusions, and hostile region is nonsensical. It is not a hostile region and it is none of our business.

 

[g5000]

It is funny how many parroting rubes are willing to post the opinions they are told to have about the book without having read the book.

I bought the audiobook version, and I have listened to all but the last hour. I plan on finishing it tonight.

It is obvious who most of Woodward's sources are. Rob Porter and Gary Cohn provided most of the material. Other contributors are Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, and Lindsey Graham. There are other smaller sources who are unnamed.

Kelly was definitely not a source, but he is portrayed in nothing but a positive light by all concerned. I don't think Tillerson was a source, either, but he might have been. If so, only glancingly. It is clear both men believe Donald Trump not just to be stupid, but an actual threat to world peace. A buffoon who would initiate World War III through sheer stupidity.

The thing about sources for a political book is that each source will attempt to portray themselves in the best possible light. But sometimes a source does not realize how much of a quisling they reveal themselves to be, and that is the case with Lindsey Graham.

After "reading" this book, in some respects I came away with a better impression of Donald Trump than I had before. In other respects, Trump came out looking exactly as I have always seen him.

Here are the key takeaways I have about Trump from the book:

Trump does not want a single drop of American blood to be spilled. He agonizes whenever one of our troops is killed. As a result, Trump is a textbook isolationist. And just like with Iraq, Trump badly wants us to cut and run from Afghanistan. He is a classic liberal peacenik. The only thing stopping Trump from quitting Afghanistan is repeated warnings that this would lead to the return to power of the Taliban and an active threat to America. Another 9/11 in the waiting for which he, Trump, would be responsible.

Several times in the book, it is stated by various authorities there is no "win" possible for the US in Afghanistan. The best we can achieve is a stalemate.

In the delusional world of Donald Trump, though, all you have to do is claim you won and it becomes true. So, in my opinion, it is just a matter of time before we see the old Trump we saw during Iraq:

BLITZER: How does the United States get out of this situation?

TRUMP: You know how they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.




Next, Trump is obsessed with trade imbalances, and is totally unable to grasp that we are actually coming out way ahead in terms of security guarantees. For a small trade imbalance and the cost of maintaining a military presence in South Korea, we save much much more in defense spending by having an ally and a base of operations in a hostile region.

Trump just does not get that, no matter how much it is explained to him.

Thank you for your take on the book. I sure hope Trump is an isolationist. That would be absolutely fantastic. He ran as a non-interventionist and I suspect this is a big reason for his winning the office. We all knew Hillary was a warmonger.

As far as Afghanland, it is way past time to get out. There is no need for our presence there and it is very unlikely they could ever hurt us again, as long as we are diligent.

We need to get out of SK too. No need to keep troops there. As such, your conclusions about trade imbalances, Trump's delusions, and hostile region is nonsensical. It is not a hostile region and it is none of our business.

Not a hostile region? BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

South Korea provides us with a warning of an ICBM launch from North Korea within 7 seconds. Without South Korea, we would not detect a launch until 15 minutes later.

That is a HUGE loss of time which could cost millions of American lives and the destruction of our economy in the blink of an eye. Our trade imbalance is but a pittance in comparison.

By the way, you understand protectionist tariffs are a liberal thing, right?

 

[theHawk]

So he keeps calling him a liar, yet we never hear what these great lies are.

Funny he admits the whole Russia collusion thing is a sham.

Our President is a prolific liar

His biggest problem is that he is not very good at it. Most of his lies are easily disproved with actual facts

And yet you can’t name one of these big lies.

 

[Votto]

I am starting this thread so that people who have ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK can give their thoughts about what they read.

My thoughts (other than it was a FASCINATING 'read' - I highly recommend it):

1) it talks VERY little about the whole Russian thing...maybe 3-4 chapters. It often mentions Trump's anger about it, but (except for one or two chapters in the middle), it is not until the last few chapters that it REALLY goes into it.

2) the book does NOT give ANY evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. It gives the impression that the only way Trump is guilty of collusion was if former people in his inner circle (Flynn, Manafort, etc.) turn on him and say damning things. Woodward does not say if Trump is guilty or innocent. But the general impression is that Woodward saw/heard nothing that Trump did wrong on this matter (though he does not exclude the possibility that things happened that he is not aware of).
And Woodward gives the impression - through what others said in the book - that the investigation may indeed have 'witch hunt' aspects to it.
The overriding theme about this - to me - was that Trump is his own worst enemy. And that there were two things about Trump's personality that are hurting him as much as anything - that he is not as smart as he thinks he is and that he is a liar.
These two things are mentioned over and over and over again in the book...from MANY different sources. That Trump is stupid (or, at least, far less intelligent than he thinks he is) and he lies...like crazy.
In fact, the final words of the book are attributed to his former lead attorney, John Dowd, a marine and a man who seemed genuinely fond of Trump;
'Trump had one overriding problem that Dowd knew, but could not bring himself to say to the President; you're a FUCKING liar'.

The book gives the impression that if Trump had just shut up, fully co-operated (including testifying) and let the investigation go forward quietly...that it would be over long ago with few, major problems for Trump.
But, two major impediments got in the way. First, Trump is pissing EVERYONE off...making political enemies all over the place. And second - and maybe the biggest problem - his lawyers refuse to let Trump testify because they STRONGLY believe that Trump will perjure himself.
The impression Woodward gives is that Mueller is dying to question Trump and that Mueller will then deliberately ask Trump a question that he knows will make Trump furious. Then Trump will go nuts, do a five minute rant about it, and perjure himself ten ways from Sunday.
This is where Trump's penchant for lying/exaggerating/making up facts is so bad. And the worst part is - Trump does not seem to believe it. He thinks he is brilliant and honest.
To be fair to Trump - no one around him EVER seems to have the guts to tell him the truth. Maybe if more people whom he respected told him the truth, Trump would learn and smarten up.


As for the rest of the book?

Most of it seems to deal with those around Trump trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do. And the others trying to get him to do what they want him to do.
I actually felt sorry for Trump at times.

And, IMO, not all of those giving advice were giving him good advice.
Trump strongly wanted America to pull troops out of NATO and South Korea. On this, I agree with him 100%. But, he is surrounded by neocons who kept telling him why he could not do this.
Trump was also TOTALLY against staying in Afghanistan (for great reasons, IMO). But, eventually, those around him wore him down and he gave in.

However, his trade deficit obsession is wrong (my words) and despite almost everyone trying to talk him out of his silly tariffs...he DID go ahead with those (obviously).

My believe is that - except for a few critical things (like his attempted tweet about pulling US service personnel out of South Korea) - I wish his 'people' would just let Trump do EXACTLY what he wanted to do and let the world (and Trump) see and learn from the results. If Trump would put his foot down more often, he would get more of what he wanted.
I am NOT saying they would be good for America. But at least they would show everyone (including Trump) whether his ideas really are as good as he thinks they are.


People who surprised me?
Rob Porter comes across in the book as someone who did a LOT of good by being a voice of reason whom Trump respected. And Gary Cohn also came across as a reasonable and decent person. Hope Hicks is mentioned favorably as well. As were Chief of Staff's Kelly and Priebus. And even Lindsey Graham looks good in the book. Forgetting he is a neocon (blah), he seems to be about as straight up with Trump as anyone. All of these people are described as calming Trump down when he goes on a rant and/or stopping him from making REALLY dumb mistakes/taking awful advice.

Finally, except for painting Trump as self-centered, none-too-brilliant and a staggering liar (none of these things should come as a surprise to anyone with an open mind about him)...the book actually paints Trump in a FAR better light then the media seems to be making.
Sure, people took pages off of his desk. Big deal. It's not like he could not have said 'hey, where is that paper I was supposed to sign?'. But since his attention span is (apparently) so short, he quickly forgets about them.

My conclusion about Trump from the book was that here is a man who DESPERATELY needs people around him who will TELL HIM THE TRUTH - no matter how much it hurts him.
Trump is a VERY flawed man. But maybe he would not be so flawed if those closest to him would stop bullshitting him all the time and just be dead straight with the guy.

So....

1. There is no evidence Trump colluded with the Russians
2. The Swamp is pissed off with Trump so they are conducting a witch hunt, the only reason they are really coming after him.
3. Trump is the only one that wants to pull out of wars abroad.

Thanks Mr. Woodward, nothing we don't already know.

 

[candycorn]

So he keeps calling him a liar, yet we never hear what these great lies are.

Funny he admits the whole Russia collusion thing is a sham.

Our President is a prolific liar

His biggest problem is that he is not very good at it. Most of his lies are easily disproved with actual facts

And yet you can’t name one of these big lies.

1. He told the PM of Austrailia that the steel from there would be omitted from the tariffs. It was not.
2. He told Prebius that they would discuss his exit strategy from the COS position on AF1. Prebius walked down the steps and got into a car. While in the car; 3 minutes after talking to the President; there is a tweet from the President announcing Kelly as the COS.
3. Several times, he agreed with his staff on decision memos. He agreed that no policy announcements, no initiatives, no guidance etc... would come from the White House without a signed decision memo. The staff secretary, Porter, would be in charge of putting together these memos that have been created after deliberations, negotiations, ran by the legal folks etc... The book outlines several times that Trump would announce policies via Twitter without these memorandums being signed by him.
4. A similar task force was put together to try to make his tweets more strategic so he wouldn't just tweet whatever popped into his empty head. He agreed to it. Then tweeted without the consultation of the task force he agreed to.

There are far many more in the book. Those are just from memory.

 

[gipper]

It is funny how many parroting rubes are willing to post the opinions they are told to have about the book without having read the book.

I bought the audiobook version, and I have listened to all but the last hour. I plan on finishing it tonight.

It is obvious who most of Woodward's sources are. Rob Porter and Gary Cohn provided most of the material. Other contributors are Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, and Lindsey Graham. There are other smaller sources who are unnamed.

Kelly was definitely not a source, but he is portrayed in nothing but a positive light by all concerned. I don't think Tillerson was a source, either, but he might have been. If so, only glancingly. It is clear both men believe Donald Trump not just to be stupid, but an actual threat to world peace. A buffoon who would initiate World War III through sheer stupidity.

The thing about sources for a political book is that each source will attempt to portray themselves in the best possible light. But sometimes a source does not realize how much of a quisling they reveal themselves to be, and that is the case with Lindsey Graham.

After "reading" this book, in some respects I came away with a better impression of Donald Trump than I had before. In other respects, Trump came out looking exactly as I have always seen him.

Here are the key takeaways I have about Trump from the book:

Trump does not want a single drop of American blood to be spilled. He agonizes whenever one of our troops is killed. As a result, Trump is a textbook isolationist. And just like with Iraq, Trump badly wants us to cut and run from Afghanistan. He is a classic liberal peacenik. The only thing stopping Trump from quitting Afghanistan is repeated warnings that this would lead to the return to power of the Taliban and an active threat to America. Another 9/11 in the waiting for which he, Trump, would be responsible.

Several times in the book, it is stated by various authorities there is no "win" possible for the US in Afghanistan. The best we can achieve is a stalemate.

In the delusional world of Donald Trump, though, all you have to do is claim you won and it becomes true. So, in my opinion, it is just a matter of time before we see the old Trump we saw during Iraq:

BLITZER: How does the United States get out of this situation?

TRUMP: You know how they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.




Next, Trump is obsessed with trade imbalances, and is totally unable to grasp that we are actually coming out way ahead in terms of security guarantees. For a small trade imbalance and the cost of maintaining a military presence in South Korea, we save much much more in defense spending by having an ally and a base of operations in a hostile region.

Trump just does not get that, no matter how much it is explained to him.

Thank you for your take on the book. I sure hope Trump is an isolationist. That would be absolutely fantastic. He ran as a non-interventionist and I suspect this is a big reason for his winning the office. We all knew Hillary was a warmonger.

As far as Afghanland, it is way past time to get out. There is no need for our presence there and it is very unlikely they could ever hurt us again, as long as we are diligent.

We need to get out of SK too. No need to keep troops there. As such, your conclusions about trade imbalances, Trump's delusions, and hostile region is nonsensical. It is not a hostile region and it is none of our business.

Not a hostile region? BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

South Korea provides us with a warning of an ICBM launch from North Korea within 7 seconds. Without South Korea, we would not detect a launch until 15 minutes later.

That is a HUGE loss of time which could cost millions of American lives and the destruction of our economy in the blink of an eye. Our trade imbalance is but a pittance in comparison.

By the way, you understand protectionist tariffs are a liberal thing, right?

LOL. If you think NK would launch, you aren’t thinking. NK knows they would be incinerated if they did. So, they won’t. No need for a bogie man.

SK can take care of themselves. Trump deserves credit for lowering tensions there. Now bring all our troops home and give peace a chance.

 

[theHawk]

Well for a guy who the left thinks is an idiot, liar and any other derogatory thing they can think of he's doing one fine job.

The economy is booming.

UE is the lowest its been in 49 years.

People have more money in their pay checks.

People like the direction the country is headed in.

I'd say the guy the left thinks in incompetent is very, very competent.

I'll take Trump any day.

He has single handedly destroyed our foreign policy, disrupted our alliances, started a poorly executed trade war and raised the deficit

Yes...he destroyed our policy of needlessly bombing counties and starting new wars against countries that never attacked us.

Our alliances are just fine. He may upset the globalist pigs in the EU but that is a good thing.

The trade war has already been going on for decades, and we’ve been losing it for decades. We finally have a President who is going to turn the tables on China. He already got the trade chief of the EU to throw in the towel and agree to drop their tariffs on the US.

 

[longknife]

I haven't read it and don't plan to.
From your report, I gain one impression - believe the exact opposite of the president from what is reported in this book.

 

[Meathead]

Peace and real prosperity. Trump must be outta his mind!