CDZ I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles

[M14 Shooter]

Have you ever seen anything from Donald H that was otherwise?

There's always a first time.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Your understanding is not required.

Indeed! We don't need the furry foreigners understanding or approval .
What don't they get about that?



What's funny is the people who are "against gun violence " and "care very very very deeply " send death threats to this family all the time.............shocker .

 

[M14 Shooter]

It was a school shooting and most school shootings are done with AR type weapons.

Guess what?
Handgun.
Like most of them.

 

[sartre play]

Guns OK, people not OK that is the problem.

 

[Donald H]

Guess what?
Handgun.
Like most of them.

So inefficient that I suspected it wouldn't be an AR this time. Maybe next weekend?

 

[M14 Shooter]

So inefficient that I suspected it wouldn't be an AR this time

^^^
This is a lie.

 

[Staidhup]

So if I have a 2nd Amendment right, then where can I buy a cruise missile, some grenades, maybe some anti-aircraft missiles... You know, all the stuff we're not allowed to buy.

Right again apples and oranges. You crack me up.

 

[Staidhup]

I haven’t shot an automatic assault weapon or M40 A1 since leaving the service, no desire, yet I respect a person’s desire and passion to do so, it is their right, as it is my right to use a hand gun, shotgun, or rifle.

 

[Donald H]

Wrong answer, dumbass! It was .45 cal pistol.

I did suspect that his 'kill' was too low and inefficient for an AR type weapon.
Being wrong this time doesn't detract from the pleasure of being able to discuss another school shooting.
Facing the issue of school shootings is the pro-gunners first challenge.
Imagining the children's blood on the school floors as a tradeoff for the privilege of packing heat wherever you go. Or the need to pack heat to defend yourself wherever you go?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I did suspect that his 'kill' was too low and inefficient for an AR type weapon.

^^^
This is a lie.

 

[Donald H]

EDIT:

Several readers have responded remarking specifically about the AR-15 genre of rifles. I don't know if they didn't read the whole OP, but this post/thread is about semi-automatic rifles in general, and the AR-15 is but one form of them, albeit, apparently, the most popular one. I've not in the main post below singled out the AR-15 genre of semi-automatic rifles.​

Consider a conversation on the attitudes of those who prefer the AR type semi-automatic weapons.
Do most of them prefer human silouette targets?
Do many of them or most of them enjoy dressing up in pseudo-military costumes when they use their AR type weapon.
Are most of them attempting to portray a military persona with their weapons and their costumes?
Do they prefer an all black weapon as opposed to a natural wood stock?

If those questions aren't going to be considered at least then I would suggest that there's no will or ambition to arrive at an answer.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Consider a conversation on the attitudes of those who prefer the AR type semi-automatic weapons.
Do most of them prefer human silouette targets?

Dunno. Tell us.

Do many of them or most of them enjoy dressing up in pseudo-military costumes when they use their AR type weapon.

Dunno. Tell us.

Are most of them attempting to portray a military persona with their weapons and their costumes?

Dunno. Tell us.

Do they prefer an all black weapon as opposed to a natural wood stock?

Dunno. Tell us.

Be sure to demonstrate your answers to be correct.

 

[Donald H]

Dunno. Tell us.

Dunno. Tell us.

Dunno. Tell us.

Dunno. Tell us.

Be sure to demonstrate your answers to be correct.

I'm suggesting that the answer to my questions is 'yes'.
If the OP is really interested in finding answers, as he suggests, then he might follow up on those questions. Do you have any opinions on those specific questions?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm suggesting that the answer to my questions is 'yes'.

In other word you, have no idea whatsoever.
Disagree?
-Prove- the answers are yes.

 

[Mac-7]

I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting.

You should have not slept through history and civics as a child

The founders wrote the 2nd amendment as a protection for citizens from abusive government

In that context a semi-auto rifle is an excellent weapon for personal defense

See Koreans during LA riots

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/f4/59/6c/f4596c7b227de001527ecffc57fbae53.jpg

 

[M14 Shooter]

The founders wrote the 2nd amendment as a protection for citizens from abusive government

Among other things.

In that context a semi-auto rifle is an excellent weapon for personal defense

George Washington would have, unquestioningly, approved of the idea that each of his potential militiaman, and all Americans living on the forntier, have an AR15 above their transom and 20 loaded 30rd magazines in their cartridge box.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I did suspect that his 'kill' was too low and inefficient for an AR type weapon.
Being wrong this time doesn't detract from the pleasure of being able to discuss another school shooting.
Facing the issue of school shootings is the pro-gunners first challenge.
Imagining the children's blood on the school floors as a tradeoff for the privilege of packing heat wherever you go. Or the need to pack heat to defend yourself wherever you go?

Imagining children's blood on the floor because of making schools targets as "zero tolerance" areas do.
You need to learn the difference between Right and privilege. There are some very serious differences.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Consider a conversation on the attitudes of those who prefer the AR type semi-automatic weapons.
Do most of them prefer human silouette targets?
Do many of them or most of them enjoy dressing up in pseudo-military costumes when they use their AR type weapon.
Are most of them attempting to portray a military persona with their weapons and their costumes?
Do they prefer an all black weapon as opposed to a natural wood stock?

If those questions aren't going to be considered at least then I would suggest that there's no will or ambition to arrive at an answer.

A better question would be why do you think any of your questions relate in any way to the OP? Or why the answers would be any of your business?

 

[Ivan88]

Our Glorious Peoples Leaders have murdered hundreds of millions of people over the last 121 years using many different weapons, and we are supposed to focus on the actions of a few peasants in USA.

 

[sakinago]

EDIT:

Several readers have responded remarking specifically about the AR-15 genre of rifles. I don't know if they didn't read the whole OP, but this post/thread is about semi-automatic rifles in general, and the AR-15 is but one form of them, albeit, apparently, the most popular one. I've not in the main post below singled out the AR-15 genre of semi-automatic rifles.​

Edit end.


I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.

The second amendment was never about hunting, or self defense, or utility. It’s about the government NOT having a monopoly of force. Ideally, in a perfect world in which we do not live, everyone, including gun owners, wants a government acting justly and securing individual rights to be the monopoly of force to apply justice. Again, we don’t live in that perfect world. Just look at our brothers down under. Power still corrupts. It’s a tale literally as old as time and unfortunately never goes out of style. The 2nd amendment allows citizens to say “yeah no, we’re not gonna do that.” It makes tyrants think twice. The founders 100% intended the citizenry to be as powerful as the government. Jefferson even famously chided a town that asked him if it was okay to own a cannon, offended that they even asked the question. So if you’re premise is “why do you even need semi auto rifles”, you don’t grasp the intentions behind the 2nd amendment.