I did it!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by pegwinn, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. pegwinn
    Offline

    pegwinn Top of the Food Chain

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,549
    Thanks Received:
    329
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +329
    I did it! I talked a JFK guy out of it. We were doing business and somehow the discussion came on about politics. We talked about what was going on in the world. We talked about history and how it is relevant to today. We talked about why we thought "our guy" would make a better leader. He obviously was pro-Kerry. But, he really didn't understand why. He started off by using the usual ABB rhetoric and as each of his objections were beaten down his arguments became weaker and weaker. The best part is that he is a senior USAF enlisted guy. This means he will be giving voting awareness classes every three weeks until election day. He's called once already to clarify something he saw on the Internet. He is not pro bush by any means, but he now understands why Kerry cannot be elected. I have to do follow ups on business issues, so I get to ensure that he doesn't waver. Cool.

    We discussed keeping score and how we personally felt about leadership in general and what makes a good leader. Since we both have extensive military backgrounds we hit it pretty even in that department. My score card is the Leadership Traits and Principles that I learned as a young Marine before being entrusted with my Marines welfare. Additionally I have a mafia question to the effect of "whaddaya done for me ... ever". And finally I have the gut check. Gut checks are simple. Take all the facts, all the suppositions, and all the assumptions. Did it sit well in your gut.

    We agreed right off that both candidates would be given a bye on their military records. No bashing or questioning allowed. Under that condition, Kerry wins in that department. Score is currently 1-0 in K's favor because he did in fact serve in combat.

    We looked at Government service. GW has two successful terms as a chief executive in Texas. He also has a successful term as chief executive at the federal level. Kerry has more total years due to his time in the senate. It was pointed out that Texas Governor may not be as powerful as all that. It was also pointed out that the senate record is singularly unspectacular. Rather than bash either we agreed to let them have a tie here. Score is 0-0 on this. Overall it is still 1-0 in Kerry's favor.

    We looked at how each man conducted his personal life. GW was a drunk who has reformed. Kerry is a catholic on his second marriage. No score. Both have kids who apparently are not really careful (one shows her boobs and the other sticks out her tongue). Neither can really claim to be anything less than upper income. Neither can deny family involvement either. Again 0-0 so we still are 1-0 overall.

    Then we began to talk about great leaders in history. We discussed character and standing. Here's where JFK lost. See even honoring him for his actions in Vietnam, as President Bush has publicly stated, we cannot honor him for his actions after Vietnam. His testimony was and is an insult to those who served and continue to serve. My friend from the Air Force was stunned for a moment. It never occurred to him that Kerrys antiwar actions could cancel, point for point, his decorated service. At this point Kerry lost his one point and we are tied.

    Contrast his (kerrys) years of literally grasping at all sides of an issue with the single minded clarity of the president. Some say that the fervor the president projects with his "with us or......" stance is evidence of a right wing religious conspiracy. I believe that in reality it is unwavering character. It is the sure and certain knowledge that in this world there is right and wrong and that in spite of the apologists, he will do the right thing.

    My friend began to nod. Then I asked him about WIIFM. In the service, WIIFM is the acronym for "Whats In It For Me?". It is the central question you must answer every time you teach a class or brief someone with an intent to suggest a course of action. It is also Kerry's stance. It shows in each of his endeavors as he uses issues and people to position himself for advancement. As Kerry's statements come out, as his record in the senate is examined, as his votes are more and more scrutinized, you have to ask yourself, WIIFM? Not much. My friend from the Air Force agreed as well.

    Score one for the good guys. 1-0 for GW and the Good Guys will win.
     
  2. Merlin1047
    Offline

    Merlin1047 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    3,500
    Thanks Received:
    449
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    AL
    Ratings:
    +450
    Congratulations. Four more and you'll be an ace!
    :thewave:
     
  3. Hobbit
    Offline

    Hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    5,099
    Thanks Received:
    420
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Near Atlanta, GA
    Ratings:
    +421
    Most of my liberal friends say they'll vote for Bush if for no other reason than to "cancel out some dork's vote who wasted it on Kerry." I've turned some neutrals towards our side, but I still haven't found any Kerry supporters I thought I could turn. Good job.
     
  4. Jimmyeatworld
    Offline

    Jimmyeatworld Silver Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,239
    Thanks Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    America
    Ratings:
    +223
    Cool. The best I've done so far is get someone to think about it. It was someone basing a lot of things on Michael Moore's propaganda film. I may not have turned them to GWB, but maybe I turned them away from Kerry and to a third party.
     
  5. insein
    Offline

    insein Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    6,096
    Thanks Received:
    356
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Amazing huh...
    Ratings:
    +356

    Same here. I have a couple of friends who believe MM's word is gospel. Ive tried to just get them to look at other things other than MM and the standard news. They beleive Kerry is the second coming and hate Bush for being Rich, a snob, and not taking the right views. I basically said that they need to research who Kerry is instead of going by the one liners from the news. Hopefully some will take my advice.

    My goal is not to get them to vote for GW but to get them to truly know Kerry and for themselves, decide if he represents who they are. If they see what Kerry really is, they will probably not vote at all or vote 3rd party. ABB is too powerful sometimes.
     
  6. rtwngAvngr
    Offline

    rtwngAvngr Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    15,755
    Thanks Received:
    511
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +511
    Way to go. Your honorary cape, leotard, and sacrament kit are in the mail. You're an honorary Avenger now!
     
  7. fubar
    Offline

    fubar Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2004
    Messages:
    162
    Thanks Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +11
    I don't know if this one counts, but if it does it's a "two-fer'. I turned a media sheep couple who voted Gore, into Bush supporters who won't even admit they voted for Gore anymore. Of course I had help : Al Gore's temper tantrum at losing.

    They Still plan to vote Bush, and of course against Kerry in his next Senate bid after he loses to GWB.
     
  8. pegwinn
    Offline

    pegwinn Top of the Food Chain

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,549
    Thanks Received:
    329
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +329
    Oh yeah, beats mine all to hell. Not only are they not voting K in the pres, but you got in-state people to scuttle the continuing junior senator saga.

    :bow3: :bow3: :bow3: :bow3: :bow3: :bow3:
     

Share This Page