HYPOCRISY, Thy Name Is 'DEMOCRAT': Democrats Leave Capitol To March For Gun Control With Students

[iceberg]

Wrong.....do you realize that criminals do not have to register their illegal guns......do you even understand that?

Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia

In a 7-1 decision, the Court ruled in 1968 in favor of Haynes. Earl Warren dissented in a one sentence opinion and Thurgood Marshalldid not participate in the ruling.

As with many other 5th amendment cases, felons and others prohibited from possessing firearms could not be compelled to incriminate themselves through registration.[1][2] The National Firearms Act was amended after Haynes to make it apply only to those who could lawfully possess a firearm.

That fact...right there, undermines your entire point.....and on top of that, registration does not solve one crime, and it doesn't stop any criminal or mass shooter......

The only reason to register guns is to later confiscate them....we know this from actual experience...Germany, Britain, Australia, Canada, New York, California, Chicago....all registered guns and then later confiscated them

Here ..... a quick primer on gun registration.....

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

15 million guns.....1 billion dollars...and it didn't work....



The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million.


In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.




What's wrong with a registry?

But gun registries have a number of problems. For one, they don’t solve crimes.

Canada’s experience with a long-gun registry illustrates this. After having spent some two billion dollars, the program was found to be ineffective at solving crimes or keeping people safe.

The State of Maryland has had a similar experience with its ballistic fingerprint records, finding that in fifteen years, only twenty-six cases were aided by the registry, and in those cases, law enforcement already knew which guns were involved.

All of this, of course, is in addition to the major question of how we would register American guns in the first place, considering the hundreds of millions here presently and our porous borders.

What registries do allow is confiscation. The experience in Britain of gun control worsening over time illustrates this. The same is true for Australia. And we’ve seen attempts to do the same thing in New York and California.

And then there’s the more basic question of privacy.

This is a concern that goes broader and deeper than just gun rights. Whether we’re talking about the NSA’s spying on our e-mail and telephone calls or the FBI’s desire to have a door opened for them into iPhones, it is abundantly clear that government wants easy access to our personal lives, in spite of and in contradiction to the protection of the Fourth Amendment.

A gun registry would simply be yet another example of this.

I’m sure that all of these points are a case of preaching to the choir, but as I was told once, even the choir needs to hear a good sermon now and then. In the battles over gun control, we risk letting some things slip through when confronted with a flurry of demands, and it’s up to us to make sure bad ideas are not converted into laws.

---

The gun registry’s legacy – creating needless paperwork criminals

The latter statement may not sound like a direct threat to restore the registry. But going after thugs, gang members and smugglers with street guns is very dangerous and expensive. So Liberals often choose the easy way out and burden legitimate owners, instead, just so they can give the appearance of taking action.


Recall that during the tumultuous flooding in High River, Alberta in the spring of 2013, Mounties went door-to-door breaking into hundreds of homes looking for firearms. In the name of finding survivors, officers searched homes that were untouched by flood waters but where, it was later learned, there were registry records of guns in the home.

During some searches, Mounties also seemed to be checking list of guns from the registry, even though all registry records were supposed to have been deleted nearly a year earlier.

But what if the Liberals have figured out they don’t need a new registry to achieve their ultimate goal or a Canada in which only the police and military have guns?

A new study by emeritus business professor and firearms researcher Gary Mauser, released on Thursday, shows that despite gun-controllers rhetoric about concentrating on criminals misusing firearms, it has been legitimate gunowners who have born the brunt of federal firearms enforcement.

Mauser discovered that between 1998, when the Liberals’ registry came into effect, and 2016 there were an average 3,000 registration-related firearms charges laid each year. In 96 per cent of those cases, the registry-related charges were the only ones filed.

Put another way, in only four per cent of registry-related charges was any violence alleged.

The Chretien registry did exactly what gunowners predicted it would do – create a new class of paperwork criminal.

The registry did not scoop up a lot of real criminals in its net – murderers, robbers, drug dealers. Those criminals were never going to abide by laws requiring them to register their guns.

Instead, the registry, even under the Harper Tories, created upwards of 3,000 “criminals” a year. Their only crime was failing to complete Ottawa’s draconian paperwork or comply with the feds’ ultra-confusing “safe storage” rules.

But because the Liberals were so obsessed with their registry in the 1990s, they made administrative infractions into crimes and thus disarmed as many as 60,000 otherwise law-abiding citizens.

The high court's ruling in favor of Haynes is exactly why, gun registration should be mandatory without exception. With the ease of transportation of guns across state lines, our current state laws that regulate gun ownership are ridiculous. It has to be at the federal level and it will happen eventually.

Secondly, owners, that do not secure their firearms should bear some responsibility for crimes committed with their guns. A study at John Hopkins found that 54% of gun owners do not store their guns safely. The researchers defined safe storage as being in a locked gun safe, cabinet or case; locked into a gun rack, or stored with a trigger lock or other lock. The favored places for storing guns were in unlocked desks and drawers, bedside tables, and on closet shelves, all of which are easily accessed by children and thieves.

With all of the facts about gun registration...that it does nothing to solve or prevent crimes...you are still pushing it......that shows that you are immune to actual facts, the truth and reality......

And the truth is this, gun registration = gun confiscation.......everywhere it is done, you end up with confiscation.....

And no.....gun locks were also found unConstitutional under Heller .... citing crap research doesn't help your cause.

With 99% of the guns in the nation being unregistered, the databases are of limited value. Thanks to the gun lobby, it is almost impossible to determine the ownership of a gun used in a crime from registration records. Since every state decides what data is be collected and from who there is little consistency. From the records, you can't tell who owns the weapon now, when it was owned, how it was acquired, or the location of owner. In effect, all you can say for sure is that somebody probably owned the weapon at some point in time. I agree with you. Registration does nothing to solve or prevent crimes. The NRA made sure of that.

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

no one is threatening to come get our cars if they can. or dogs. or bikes, burglar alarms or the rest of your list.

since we have house bills being produced to ball all semi-automatics and feinstein out there saying she'd outlaw them all if she could, people give a big FUCK YOU to those who want them registered. the only reason at this point TO register them is so you can come get 'em.

 

[2aguy]

The high court's ruling in favor of Haynes is exactly why, gun registration should be mandatory without exception. With the ease of transportation of guns across state lines, our current state laws that regulate gun ownership are ridiculous. It has to be at the federal level and it will happen eventually.

Secondly, owners, that do not secure their firearms should bear some responsibility for crimes committed with their guns. A study at John Hopkins found that 54% of gun owners do not store their guns safely. The researchers defined safe storage as being in a locked gun safe, cabinet or case; locked into a gun rack, or stored with a trigger lock or other lock. The favored places for storing guns were in unlocked desks and drawers, bedside tables, and on closet shelves, all of which are easily accessed by children and thieves.

With all of the facts about gun registration...that it does nothing to solve or prevent crimes...you are still pushing it......that shows that you are immune to actual facts, the truth and reality......

And the truth is this, gun registration = gun confiscation.......everywhere it is done, you end up with confiscation.....

And no.....gun locks were also found unConstitutional under Heller .... citing crap research doesn't help your cause.

With 99% of the guns in the nation being unregistered, the databases are of limited value. Thanks to the gun lobby, it is almost impossible to determine the ownership of a gun used in a crime from registration records. Since every state decides what data is be collected and from who there is little consistency. From the records, you can't tell who owns the weapon now, when it was owned, how it was acquired, or the location of owner. In effect, all you can say for sure is that somebody probably owned the weapon at some point in time. I agree with you. Registration does nothing to solve or prevent crimes. The NRA made sure of that.

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

no one is threatening to come get our cars if they can. or dogs. or bikes, burglar alarms or the rest of your list.

since we have house bills being produced to ball all semi-automatics and feinstein out there saying she'd outlaw them all if she could, people give a big FUCK YOU to those who want them registered. the only reason at this point TO register them is so you can come get 'em.

And one of the Supreme Court justices of the four who said he wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment........

I am so glad they have taken off the mask....the anti gunners can no longer lie about their real goal of confiscating all guns...

 

[iceberg]

With all of the facts about gun registration...that it does nothing to solve or prevent crimes...you are still pushing it......that shows that you are immune to actual facts, the truth and reality......

And the truth is this, gun registration = gun confiscation.......everywhere it is done, you end up with confiscation.....

And no.....gun locks were also found unConstitutional under Heller .... citing crap research doesn't help your cause.

With 99% of the guns in the nation being unregistered, the databases are of limited value. Thanks to the gun lobby, it is almost impossible to determine the ownership of a gun used in a crime from registration records. Since every state decides what data is be collected and from who there is little consistency. From the records, you can't tell who owns the weapon now, when it was owned, how it was acquired, or the location of owner. In effect, all you can say for sure is that somebody probably owned the weapon at some point in time. I agree with you. Registration does nothing to solve or prevent crimes. The NRA made sure of that.

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

no one is threatening to come get our cars if they can. or dogs. or bikes, burglar alarms or the rest of your list.

since we have house bills being produced to ball all semi-automatics and feinstein out there saying she'd outlaw them all if she could, people give a big FUCK YOU to those who want them registered. the only reason at this point TO register them is so you can come get 'em.

And one of the Supreme Court justices of the four who said he wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment........

I am so glad they have taken off the mask....the anti gunners can no longer lie about their real goal of confiscating all guns...

yep. playing ignorant these days just makes you look ignorant.

 

[Humorme]

Bullshit. Craigslist does not allow the sale of any firearms. Any listing that even resembles a firearms listing, gets immediately pulled.

OK, suit yourself. I bought my rifle from a guy a met on the rifle range. No ID, no nothing. Cash transaction. Perfectly legal in my state.

Sure. "Face to face" transactions are perfectly legal in any state. I myself bought 14 firearms from garage sales two years ago.

But the law is that as long as you don't knowingly sell a firearm to a convicted felon or an under-aged person, you're good to go.

Similarly with an automobile: If I sell an automobile to a person without a driver's license and he runs over someone, it's his problem, not mine.

Purchases of guns and automobiles aren't comparable.
Government requires automobiles be registered and drivers be trained and licensed. Neither registration, licensing, or training is required for most gun ownership. Automobiles are built to transport. Guns are made to kill. Thus in this screwed up world, it makes perfect sense to make it hard to own and operate a car but very easy to own and operate a gun.

Absolute Horseshit!

To being with, there is no constitutional protection for owning a car. And why should you not "register" a car? Automobiles belong to the government. The origination papers (the equivalent of a birth certificate) are owned by the government. All the car's caretaker will ever get is a Certificate of Title. The ownership of the car resides with the government.

Now, despite the fact that cars are registered; drivers licensed and trained it don't stop the misuse and abuse that claims more lives than firearms do. And since you probably didn't know, there are 265 million automobiles in the United States. Fewer cars than guns, but cars cost more lives and cars are registered... and most of the misuse and abuse comes from people that are trained and licensed to drive.

What was your argument again?

I hope that no one lights a match over here. That straw man is so old and dried out that it could burn the entire board down...

You need to learn how to read. I don't use straw man arguments. I gave a poster a factual response. Who rattled your cage?

 

[Humorme]

With all of the facts about gun registration...that it does nothing to solve or prevent crimes...you are still pushing it......that shows that you are immune to actual facts, the truth and reality......

And the truth is this, gun registration = gun confiscation.......everywhere it is done, you end up with confiscation.....

And no.....gun locks were also found unConstitutional under Heller .... citing crap research doesn't help your cause.

With 99% of the guns in the nation being unregistered, the databases are of limited value. Thanks to the gun lobby, it is almost impossible to determine the ownership of a gun used in a crime from registration records. Since every state decides what data is be collected and from who there is little consistency. From the records, you can't tell who owns the weapon now, when it was owned, how it was acquired, or the location of owner. In effect, all you can say for sure is that somebody probably owned the weapon at some point in time. I agree with you. Registration does nothing to solve or prevent crimes. The NRA made sure of that.

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

no one is threatening to come get our cars if they can. or dogs. or bikes, burglar alarms or the rest of your list.

since we have house bills being produced to ball all semi-automatics and feinstein out there saying she'd outlaw them all if she could, people give a big FUCK YOU to those who want them registered. the only reason at this point TO register them is so you can come get 'em.

And one of the Supreme Court justices of the four who said he wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment........

I am so glad they have taken off the mask....the anti gunners can no longer lie about their real goal of confiscating all guns...

You said "he" and I don't know who you are referencing, but Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Elena Kagan (a real communist literally) would support a ban on all weapons. The left is a third of the way there already.

 

[Flopper]

The high court's ruling in favor of Haynes is exactly why, gun registration should be mandatory without exception. With the ease of transportation of guns across state lines, our current state laws that regulate gun ownership are ridiculous. It has to be at the federal level and it will happen eventually.

Secondly, owners, that do not secure their firearms should bear some responsibility for crimes committed with their guns. A study at John Hopkins found that 54% of gun owners do not store their guns safely. The researchers defined safe storage as being in a locked gun safe, cabinet or case; locked into a gun rack, or stored with a trigger lock or other lock. The favored places for storing guns were in unlocked desks and drawers, bedside tables, and on closet shelves, all of which are easily accessed by children and thieves.

With all of the facts about gun registration...that it does nothing to solve or prevent crimes...you are still pushing it......that shows that you are immune to actual facts, the truth and reality......

And the truth is this, gun registration = gun confiscation.......everywhere it is done, you end up with confiscation.....

And no.....gun locks were also found unConstitutional under Heller .... citing crap research doesn't help your cause.

With 99% of the guns in the nation being unregistered, the databases are of limited value. Thanks to the gun lobby, it is almost impossible to determine the ownership of a gun used in a crime from registration records. Since every state decides what data is be collected and from who there is little consistency. From the records, you can't tell who owns the weapon now, when it was owned, how it was acquired, or the location of owner. In effect, all you can say for sure is that somebody probably owned the weapon at some point in time. I agree with you. Registration does nothing to solve or prevent crimes. The NRA made sure of that.

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

Wow...you actually cited Germany in that post.....Germany, where they registered guns in the 1920s and in the 1930s they used those same lists to confiscate guns, and then shipped the owners to death camps, gas chambers and mass graves...

Britain, Australia, Canada. New York, Chicago, California......all required registration, all confiscated guns...even Switzerland has their anti gun movement trying to take guns....

Again......registration does not help the police solve crimes.....you have been shown actual statements from law enforcment that show this...that is a lie and you keep pushing it.....a stolen gun is not registered to the criminal who commits the crime....

And every call a police officer goes to is assumed to have at least one gun ,the cops, involved........

This is just a scam to get registration...so you can confiscate all guns.....you guys told us this at the CNN Town Hall and at the rally, and your Supreme Court justice stated the goal in his op ed yesterday.......

Registration = Confiscation.....

Any vote for a democrat is a vote to end the 2nd Amendment.....

Law enforcement has been seizing weapons for years before any gun registration and will continue to do so. Many countries require the registration of firearms and they have had no wholesale gun seizures of legally registered firearms. If gun registration in the US was required, the only guns confiscated would be unregistered guns and those connected to criminal activity.

Fear of gun registration and confiscation has been an NRA mantra forever. It's based on nothing but the fact that they just keep saying it over and over again.

The ATF National Tracing Center from 1991 to 1998 maintained a registry of machine gun, sawed-off shotguns, silencers, and other weaponry favored by gangsters. If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?

The Nazi compensation of registered firearms is another famous NRA fantasy. There was such a registry in 1928 and there was compensation of guns. That part is true. What the NRA neglects in the story is that guns were compensated only from communist, Jews and labor unions that opposed Hitler. Most guns compensated were found in raids, not by following locations in the registry because most guns at the time were never registered. Also the NRA left out of the story that after Hitler came to power he liberalized guns laws to encourage gun ownership and no registry was maintained.

If in the future, the government decides to seize firearms, why would they need a registry to find gun owners? With guns in nearly every other household, the government would have no trouble finding them with about 300 million of them floating around.
Florida lawmaker mangles Nazi gun control history

 

[Humorme]

With all of the facts about gun registration...that it does nothing to solve or prevent crimes...you are still pushing it......that shows that you are immune to actual facts, the truth and reality......

And the truth is this, gun registration = gun confiscation.......everywhere it is done, you end up with confiscation.....

And no.....gun locks were also found unConstitutional under Heller .... citing crap research doesn't help your cause.

With 99% of the guns in the nation being unregistered, the databases are of limited value. Thanks to the gun lobby, it is almost impossible to determine the ownership of a gun used in a crime from registration records. Since every state decides what data is be collected and from who there is little consistency. From the records, you can't tell who owns the weapon now, when it was owned, how it was acquired, or the location of owner. In effect, all you can say for sure is that somebody probably owned the weapon at some point in time. I agree with you. Registration does nothing to solve or prevent crimes. The NRA made sure of that.

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

Wow...you actually cited Germany in that post.....Germany, where they registered guns in the 1920s and in the 1930s they used those same lists to confiscate guns, and then shipped the owners to death camps, gas chambers and mass graves...

Britain, Australia, Canada. New York, Chicago, California......all required registration, all confiscated guns...even Switzerland has their anti gun movement trying to take guns....

Again......registration does not help the police solve crimes.....you have been shown actual statements from law enforcment that show this...that is a lie and you keep pushing it.....a stolen gun is not registered to the criminal who commits the crime....

And every call a police officer goes to is assumed to have at least one gun ,the cops, involved........

This is just a scam to get registration...so you can confiscate all guns.....you guys told us this at the CNN Town Hall and at the rally, and your Supreme Court justice stated the goal in his op ed yesterday.......

Registration = Confiscation.....

Any vote for a democrat is a vote to end the 2nd Amendment.....

Law enforcement has been seizing weapons for years before any gun registration and will continue to do so. Many countries require the registration of firearms and they have had no wholesale gun seizures of legally registered firearms. If gun registration in the US was required, the only guns confiscated would be unregistered guns and those connected to criminal activity.

Fear of gun registration and confiscation has been an NRA mantra forever. It's based on nothing but the fact that they just keep saying it over and over again.

The ATF National Tracing Center from 1991 to 1998 maintained a registry of machine gun, sawed-off shotguns, silencers, and other weaponry favored by gangsters. If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?

The Nazi compensation of registered firearms is another famous NRA fantasy. There was such a registry in 1928 and there was compensation of guns. That part is true. What the NRA neglects in the story is that guns were compensated only from communist, Jews and labor unions that opposed Hitler. Most guns compensated were found in raids, not by following locations in the registry because most guns at the time were never registered. Also the NRA left out of the story that after Hitler came to power he liberalized guns laws to encourage gun ownership and no registry was maintained.

If in the future, the government decides to seize firearms, why would they need a registry to find gun owners? With guns in nearly every other household, the government would have no trouble finding them with about 300 million of them floating around.
Florida lawmaker mangles Nazi gun control history

If I understand the terminology correctly, unless one of the posters here is a spokesman for the NRA, you just wasted a lot of bandwidth making a straw man argument.

Until recent years, America was the leader of the free world. You keep wanting to compare America to other countries. That is bass ackwards. Other countries follow our lead; we don't follow theirs.

And here is something a founding father said regarding this part of the discussion:

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

I don't give a rip what they do in other countries. Thomas Jefferson said of the Declaration of Independence:

“The Declaration of Independence... [is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and of the rights of man.”

You have no case against the Right to keep and bear Arms. It was debated by smarter men than you and I. They were unequivocally clear about the issue.

 

[Vandalshandle]

OK, suit yourself. I bought my rifle from a guy a met on the rifle range. No ID, no nothing. Cash transaction. Perfectly legal in my state.

Sure. "Face to face" transactions are perfectly legal in any state. I myself bought 14 firearms from garage sales two years ago.

But the law is that as long as you don't knowingly sell a firearm to a convicted felon or an under-aged person, you're good to go.

Similarly with an automobile: If I sell an automobile to a person without a driver's license and he runs over someone, it's his problem, not mine.

Purchases of guns and automobiles aren't comparable.
Government requires automobiles be registered and drivers be trained and licensed. Neither registration, licensing, or training is required for most gun ownership. Automobiles are built to transport. Guns are made to kill. Thus in this screwed up world, it makes perfect sense to make it hard to own and operate a car but very easy to own and operate a gun.

Absolute Horseshit!

To being with, there is no constitutional protection for owning a car. And why should you not "register" a car? Automobiles belong to the government. The origination papers (the equivalent of a birth certificate) are owned by the government. All the car's caretaker will ever get is a Certificate of Title. The ownership of the car resides with the government.

Now, despite the fact that cars are registered; drivers licensed and trained it don't stop the misuse and abuse that claims more lives than firearms do. And since you probably didn't know, there are 265 million automobiles in the United States. Fewer cars than guns, but cars cost more lives and cars are registered... and most of the misuse and abuse comes from people that are trained and licensed to drive.

What was your argument again?

I hope that no one lights a match over here. That straw man is so old and dried out that it could burn the entire board down...

You need to learn how to read. I don't use straw man arguments. I gave a poster a factual response. Who rattled your cage?

Yep. From the Model T era.

 

[Flopper]

Actually, you can buy a sniper rifle on Craig's list, without ANY ID or background check.

Bullshit. Craigslist does not allow the sale of any firearms. Any listing that even resembles a firearms listing, gets immediately pulled.

OK, suit yourself. I bought my rifle from a guy a met on the rifle range. No ID, no nothing. Cash transaction. Perfectly legal in my state.

Sure. "Face to face" transactions are perfectly legal in any state. I myself bought 14 firearms from garage sales two years ago.

But the law is that as long as you don't knowingly sell a firearm to a convicted felon or an under-aged person, you're good to go.

Similarly with an automobile: If I sell an automobile to a person without a driver's license and he runs over someone, it's his problem, not mine.

Purchases of guns and automobiles aren't comparable.
Government requires automobiles be registered and drivers be trained and licensed. Neither registration, licensing, or training is required for most gun ownership. Automobiles are built to transport. Guns are made to kill. Thus in this screwed up world, it makes perfect sense to make it hard to own and operate a car but very easy to own and operate a gun.

No, they aren't comparable......car ownership is not a Right, and owning a car is far down on the list of confiscation for left wingers.....

Guns are made to keep the owner alive.

Cars kill more people than guns do every single year. They kill more kids than guns do too....

Nice to hear you agree with me. My first statement in my post was they aren't comparable.

The only people I hear seriously talking about goverment confiscating guns are gun owners. Gun control, done right will not take guns away from law abiding citizens.

Although, I certain don't favor confiscating guns but I certainly hope the number of guns in the country can be reduced over time.

People buy guns today to protect themselves from other people with guns. More guns translate into more gun violence and more media coverage which convinces people to buy more guns. With the country awash in hundreds of millions of guns and the numbers increasing, it's virtually impossible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorist, and the mentally deranged. The only answer gun owners seem to have is buy more guns for protection.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The gun lobby claims that more guns reduces crime. If that were true, America would be virtually crime free, because we have more guns in civilians hands than any country on earth.

 

[Humorme]

Sure. "Face to face" transactions are perfectly legal in any state. I myself bought 14 firearms from garage sales two years ago.

But the law is that as long as you don't knowingly sell a firearm to a convicted felon or an under-aged person, you're good to go.

Similarly with an automobile: If I sell an automobile to a person without a driver's license and he runs over someone, it's his problem, not mine.

Purchases of guns and automobiles aren't comparable.
Government requires automobiles be registered and drivers be trained and licensed. Neither registration, licensing, or training is required for most gun ownership. Automobiles are built to transport. Guns are made to kill. Thus in this screwed up world, it makes perfect sense to make it hard to own and operate a car but very easy to own and operate a gun.

Absolute Horseshit!

To being with, there is no constitutional protection for owning a car. And why should you not "register" a car? Automobiles belong to the government. The origination papers (the equivalent of a birth certificate) are owned by the government. All the car's caretaker will ever get is a Certificate of Title. The ownership of the car resides with the government.

Now, despite the fact that cars are registered; drivers licensed and trained it don't stop the misuse and abuse that claims more lives than firearms do. And since you probably didn't know, there are 265 million automobiles in the United States. Fewer cars than guns, but cars cost more lives and cars are registered... and most of the misuse and abuse comes from people that are trained and licensed to drive.

What was your argument again?

I hope that no one lights a match over here. That straw man is so old and dried out that it could burn the entire board down...

You need to learn how to read. I don't use straw man arguments. I gave a poster a factual response. Who rattled your cage?

Yep. From the Model T era.

Well, I got the terminology right. It bothers me more to have to say it than it does for you to have to read it and feel compelled to respond to it. You have a far better ability to express yourself without straw man arguments, name calling, belittling your opposition when you've been proven wrong and your arguments work against you.

 

[Humorme]

The gun lobby claims that more guns reduces crime. If that were true, America would be virtually crime free, because we have more guns in civilians hands than any country on earth.

The statistical probability that any of those more than 300 MILLION firearms being used in a crime is less than percent per year. That's pretty damn safe.

Furthermore, IF the gun lobby would get off their ass and support ideas to slash mass shootings before they happen employing without gun control, you wouldn't have much of an issue there.

 

[Humorme]

Bullshit. Craigslist does not allow the sale of any firearms. Any listing that even resembles a firearms listing, gets immediately pulled.

OK, suit yourself. I bought my rifle from a guy a met on the rifle range. No ID, no nothing. Cash transaction. Perfectly legal in my state.

Sure. "Face to face" transactions are perfectly legal in any state. I myself bought 14 firearms from garage sales two years ago.

But the law is that as long as you don't knowingly sell a firearm to a convicted felon or an under-aged person, you're good to go.

Similarly with an automobile: If I sell an automobile to a person without a driver's license and he runs over someone, it's his problem, not mine.

Purchases of guns and automobiles aren't comparable.
Government requires automobiles be registered and drivers be trained and licensed. Neither registration, licensing, or training is required for most gun ownership. Automobiles are built to transport. Guns are made to kill. Thus in this screwed up world, it makes perfect sense to make it hard to own and operate a car but very easy to own and operate a gun.

No, they aren't comparable......car ownership is not a Right, and owning a car is far down on the list of confiscation for left wingers.....

Guns are made to keep the owner alive.

Cars kill more people than guns do every single year. They kill more kids than guns do too....

Nice to hear you agree with me. My first statement in my post was they aren't comparable.

The only people I hear seriously talking about goverment confiscating guns are gun owners. Gun control, done right will not take guns away from law abiding citizens.

Although, I certain don't favor confiscating guns but I certainly hope the number of guns in the country can be reduced over time.

People buy guns today to protect themselves from other people with guns. More guns translate into more gun violence and more media coverage which convinces people to buy more guns. With the country awash in hundreds of millions of guns and the numbers increasing, it's virtually impossible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorist, and the mentally deranged. The only answer gun owners seem to have is buy more guns for protection.

Why are you defending dangerous people running loose on our streets?

 

[2aguy]

With all of the facts about gun registration...that it does nothing to solve or prevent crimes...you are still pushing it......that shows that you are immune to actual facts, the truth and reality......

And the truth is this, gun registration = gun confiscation.......everywhere it is done, you end up with confiscation.....

And no.....gun locks were also found unConstitutional under Heller .... citing crap research doesn't help your cause.

With 99% of the guns in the nation being unregistered, the databases are of limited value. Thanks to the gun lobby, it is almost impossible to determine the ownership of a gun used in a crime from registration records. Since every state decides what data is be collected and from who there is little consistency. From the records, you can't tell who owns the weapon now, when it was owned, how it was acquired, or the location of owner. In effect, all you can say for sure is that somebody probably owned the weapon at some point in time. I agree with you. Registration does nothing to solve or prevent crimes. The NRA made sure of that.

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

Wow...you actually cited Germany in that post.....Germany, where they registered guns in the 1920s and in the 1930s they used those same lists to confiscate guns, and then shipped the owners to death camps, gas chambers and mass graves...

Britain, Australia, Canada. New York, Chicago, California......all required registration, all confiscated guns...even Switzerland has their anti gun movement trying to take guns....

Again......registration does not help the police solve crimes.....you have been shown actual statements from law enforcment that show this...that is a lie and you keep pushing it.....a stolen gun is not registered to the criminal who commits the crime....

And every call a police officer goes to is assumed to have at least one gun ,the cops, involved........

This is just a scam to get registration...so you can confiscate all guns.....you guys told us this at the CNN Town Hall and at the rally, and your Supreme Court justice stated the goal in his op ed yesterday.......

Registration = Confiscation.....

Any vote for a democrat is a vote to end the 2nd Amendment.....

Law enforcement has been seizing weapons for years before any gun registration and will continue to do so. Many countries require the registration of firearms and they have had no wholesale gun seizures of legally registered firearms. If gun registration in the US was required, the only guns confiscated would be unregistered guns and those connected to criminal activity.

Fear of gun registration and confiscation has been an NRA mantra forever. It's based on nothing but the fact that they just keep saying it over and over again.

The ATF National Tracing Center from 1991 to 1998 maintained a registry of machine gun, sawed-off shotguns, silencers, and other weaponry favored by gangsters. If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?

The Nazi compensation of registered firearms is another famous NRA fantasy. There was such a registry in 1928 and there was compensation of guns. That part is true. What the NRA neglects in the story is that guns were compensated only from communist, Jews and labor unions that opposed Hitler. Most guns compensated were found in raids, not by following locations in the registry because most guns at the time were never registered. Also the NRA left out of the story that after Hitler came to power he liberalized guns laws to encourage gun ownership and no registry was maintained.

If in the future, the government decides to seize firearms, why would they need a registry to find gun owners? With guns in nearly every other household, the government would have no trouble finding them with about 300 million of them floating around.
Florida lawmaker mangles Nazi gun control history

Germany, registered guns, conifscated guns....

Britain, dittos,

Australia, dittos

Moron, hitler did not liberalize gun ownership, he gave ownership to nazi party members and confiscated guns from Jews and politial enemies, who would later end up being shipped off to death camps.

If the government announced bans and confiscation on the levels that democrats want, millions of guns would be "lost" or "stolen" and reported as lost and stolen.....that is why the democrats know they have to register guns first......

 

[Vandalshandle]

The gun lobby claims that more guns reduces crime. If that were true, America would be virtually crime free, because we have more guns in civilians hands than any country on earth.

The statistical probability that any of those more than 300 MILLION firearms being used in a crime is less than percent per year. That's pretty damn safe.

Furthermore, IF the gun lobby would get off their ass and support ideas to slash mass shootings before they happen employing without gun control, you wouldn't have much of an issue there.

And, yet, our crime rate far exceeds almost every industrialized nation on earth, all of which have a lower percent of firearms held by civilians than we do. This, of course, destroys the myth that more guns mean less crime. In fact, it proves the opposite.

 

[2aguy]

The gun lobby claims that more guns reduces crime. If that were true, America would be virtually crime free, because we have more guns in civilians hands than any country on earth.

It is a fact...we have actual 21 years of history of increasing gun ownership and increasing gun carrying by law abiding gun owners.....and the gun crime rates went down..........it is the truth, the fact and the reality....you guys can keep lying but facts are facts.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Flopper]

With 99% of the guns in the nation being unregistered, the databases are of limited value. Thanks to the gun lobby, it is almost impossible to determine the ownership of a gun used in a crime from registration records. Since every state decides what data is be collected and from who there is little consistency. From the records, you can't tell who owns the weapon now, when it was owned, how it was acquired, or the location of owner. In effect, all you can say for sure is that somebody probably owned the weapon at some point in time. I agree with you. Registration does nothing to solve or prevent crimes. The NRA made sure of that.

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

Wow...you actually cited Germany in that post.....Germany, where they registered guns in the 1920s and in the 1930s they used those same lists to confiscate guns, and then shipped the owners to death camps, gas chambers and mass graves...

Britain, Australia, Canada. New York, Chicago, California......all required registration, all confiscated guns...even Switzerland has their anti gun movement trying to take guns....

Again......registration does not help the police solve crimes.....you have been shown actual statements from law enforcment that show this...that is a lie and you keep pushing it.....a stolen gun is not registered to the criminal who commits the crime....

And every call a police officer goes to is assumed to have at least one gun ,the cops, involved........

This is just a scam to get registration...so you can confiscate all guns.....you guys told us this at the CNN Town Hall and at the rally, and your Supreme Court justice stated the goal in his op ed yesterday.......

Registration = Confiscation.....

Any vote for a democrat is a vote to end the 2nd Amendment.....

Law enforcement has been seizing weapons for years before any gun registration and will continue to do so. Many countries require the registration of firearms and they have had no wholesale gun seizures of legally registered firearms. If gun registration in the US was required, the only guns confiscated would be unregistered guns and those connected to criminal activity.

Fear of gun registration and confiscation has been an NRA mantra forever. It's based on nothing but the fact that they just keep saying it over and over again.

The ATF National Tracing Center from 1991 to 1998 maintained a registry of machine gun, sawed-off shotguns, silencers, and other weaponry favored by gangsters. If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?

The Nazi compensation of registered firearms is another famous NRA fantasy. There was such a registry in 1928 and there was compensation of guns. That part is true. What the NRA neglects in the story is that guns were compensated only from communist, Jews and labor unions that opposed Hitler. Most guns compensated were found in raids, not by following locations in the registry because most guns at the time were never registered. Also the NRA left out of the story that after Hitler came to power he liberalized guns laws to encourage gun ownership and no registry was maintained.

If in the future, the government decides to seize firearms, why would they need a registry to find gun owners? With guns in nearly every other household, the government would have no trouble finding them with about 300 million of them floating around.
Florida lawmaker mangles Nazi gun control history

If I understand the terminology correctly, unless one of the posters here is a spokesman for the NRA, you just wasted a lot of bandwidth making a straw man argument.

Until recent years, America was the leader of the free world. You keep wanting to compare America to other countries. That is bass ackwards. Other countries follow our lead; we don't follow theirs.

And here is something a founding father said regarding this part of the discussion:

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

I don't give a rip what they do in other countries. Thomas Jefferson said of the Declaration of Independence:

“The Declaration of Independence... [is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and of the rights of man.”

You have no case against the Right to keep and bear Arms. It was debated by smarter men than you and I. They were unequivocally clear about the issue.

If you read further in Webster's work as a Federalist editor, you will see his support for the 2nd amendment was support for armed citizen (militias) in lieu of a standing army. Webster like most Americans in the late 18th century had seen the injustice of armies in the colonies and were well aware of the horrors they brought to Europe. The feeling was so strong that North Carolina and several other colonies passed laws that outlawed any standing army within it's boarders.

The underpinnings of the second amendment, armed citizens in lieu of a standing army simple does not exist today. How could any one in their right mind believe we need armed citizens in lieu of our armed forces. The inevitable conclusion is the 2nd amendment is a just relic of the 18th century which has prevented government from acting on real gun legislation. The result has has been the deaths of 1.2 million people in the US between 1968 and 2011, exceeding that of all foreign wars fought by the US. However, I have come to the sad conclusion that America is not ready to repeal the second amendment. Someday it will happen but not now.

Unless you're a hermit living totally independent of others, you should care what happens in other countries because influence over Americans’ lives is no longer centralized in America. Nearly half of our national debt is held by foreigners. Farmland equal to size of Tennessee is owned abroad. Hundreds of our largest American business are owned by foreign corporations such as Budweiser, General Electric, Lucky Strike, Ben & Jerrys, Burger King, American Apparel, 7-Eleven, and Holiday Inn.

With more than 95 percent of the world's population and 80 percent of the world's purchasing power outside of the United States, future American economic growth and job creation depend on open markets abroad. However, it not just our economic future that depends on our ability to be successful in international commerce, but our current economic well being. Today, over 41 million jobs depend on our international trade.

You may not care a rip about what they do in other countries but what they do certainly has a major effect on our lives in America.

 

[2aguy]

The gun lobby claims that more guns reduces crime. If that were true, America would be virtually crime free, because we have more guns in civilians hands than any country on earth.

The statistical probability that any of those more than 300 MILLION firearms being used in a crime is less than percent per year. That's pretty damn safe.

Furthermore, IF the gun lobby would get off their ass and support ideas to slash mass shootings before they happen employing without gun control, you wouldn't have much of an issue there.

And, yet, or crime rate far exceeds almost every industrialized nation on earth, all of which have a lower percent of firearms held by civilians than we do. This, of course, destroys the myth that more guns mean less crime.

No...it doesn't.....you fail to take into account the wholesale destruction of European society by World War 2, the slow recovering of their societies and the ability of their culture and values to civilize their young males......which they have now destroyed with their social welfare states, their destruction of their police forces with man power cuts, resource cuts and tying their hands with politically correct policies...and they are importing even more violent 3rd world young males who now control their drug gangs and who are more comfortable with murder and violence...

They are at the point in their crime development that we were in the mid 1960s......they have increasing gun crime all over the country, their young people are stabbing each other to death.....and their single teenage mothers on welfare are raising a new generation of sociopaths...

You don't know what you are talking about......

And again, they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rates are going up...ours are going down...

 

[2aguy]

Knowing who owns a firearm is irrelevant. Crimes are solved without the LEO community having all that information. Serial numbers and registrations do not make firearms any less lethal.

Your money would be better spent on rehabilitating criminals while they are incarcerated. It would be better spent on identity children with emotional and behavioral issues while they're in school and treating them so that they don't commit violent acts as they grow up.

What is really wrong with registering guns? We register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration.

The slogan or talking point “registration always leads to confiscation” has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history, long before anyone was talking about registering them.

There are many countries that require registration and there is no wholesale seizure of legal firearms. In Switzerland and Germany, and dozens of other countries gun registration is required and rarely does the police seize legally registered guns.

Requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensures gun owner accountability and helps law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. It will enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms. Registration systems also create accountability for firearm owners and discourage illegal sales.

Information generated by firearm registration systems can also help protect law enforcement officers responding to an incident by providing them with information about whether firearms may be present at the scene and, if so, how many and what types. This will can not only save lives of law enforcement officers but other members of the community. All too often we read of innocent people running out of a house to a police car and being shot.

Wow...you actually cited Germany in that post.....Germany, where they registered guns in the 1920s and in the 1930s they used those same lists to confiscate guns, and then shipped the owners to death camps, gas chambers and mass graves...

Britain, Australia, Canada. New York, Chicago, California......all required registration, all confiscated guns...even Switzerland has their anti gun movement trying to take guns....

Again......registration does not help the police solve crimes.....you have been shown actual statements from law enforcment that show this...that is a lie and you keep pushing it.....a stolen gun is not registered to the criminal who commits the crime....

And every call a police officer goes to is assumed to have at least one gun ,the cops, involved........

This is just a scam to get registration...so you can confiscate all guns.....you guys told us this at the CNN Town Hall and at the rally, and your Supreme Court justice stated the goal in his op ed yesterday.......

Registration = Confiscation.....

Any vote for a democrat is a vote to end the 2nd Amendment.....

Law enforcement has been seizing weapons for years before any gun registration and will continue to do so. Many countries require the registration of firearms and they have had no wholesale gun seizures of legally registered firearms. If gun registration in the US was required, the only guns confiscated would be unregistered guns and those connected to criminal activity.

Fear of gun registration and confiscation has been an NRA mantra forever. It's based on nothing but the fact that they just keep saying it over and over again.

The ATF National Tracing Center from 1991 to 1998 maintained a registry of machine gun, sawed-off shotguns, silencers, and other weaponry favored by gangsters. If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?

The Nazi compensation of registered firearms is another famous NRA fantasy. There was such a registry in 1928 and there was compensation of guns. That part is true. What the NRA neglects in the story is that guns were compensated only from communist, Jews and labor unions that opposed Hitler. Most guns compensated were found in raids, not by following locations in the registry because most guns at the time were never registered. Also the NRA left out of the story that after Hitler came to power he liberalized guns laws to encourage gun ownership and no registry was maintained.

If in the future, the government decides to seize firearms, why would they need a registry to find gun owners? With guns in nearly every other household, the government would have no trouble finding them with about 300 million of them floating around.
Florida lawmaker mangles Nazi gun control history

If I understand the terminology correctly, unless one of the posters here is a spokesman for the NRA, you just wasted a lot of bandwidth making a straw man argument.

Until recent years, America was the leader of the free world. You keep wanting to compare America to other countries. That is bass ackwards. Other countries follow our lead; we don't follow theirs.

And here is something a founding father said regarding this part of the discussion:

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

I don't give a rip what they do in other countries. Thomas Jefferson said of the Declaration of Independence:

“The Declaration of Independence... [is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and of the rights of man.”

You have no case against the Right to keep and bear Arms. It was debated by smarter men than you and I. They were unequivocally clear about the issue.

If you read further in Webster's work as a Federalist editor, you will see his support for the 2nd amendment was support for armed citizen (militias) in lieu of a standing army. Webster like most Americans in the late 18th century had seen the injustice of armies in the colonies and were well aware of the horrors they brought to Europe. The feeling was so strong that North Carolina and several other colonies passed laws that outlawed any standing army within it's boarders.

The underpinnings of the second amendment, armed citizens in lieu of a standing army simple does not exist today. How could any one in their right mind believe we need armed citizens in lieu of our armed forces. The inevitable conclusion is the 2nd amendment is a just relic of the 18th century which has prevented government from acting on real gun legislation. The result has has been the deaths of 1.2 million people in the US between 1968 and 2011, exceeding that of all foreign wars fought by the US. However, I have come to sad conclusion that America is not ready to repeal the second amendment. Someday it will happen but not now.

Unless you're a hermit living totally independent of others, you should care what happens in other countries because influence over Americans’ lives is no longer centralized in America. Nearly half of our national debt is held by foreigners. Farmland equal to size of Tennessee is owned abroad. Hundreds of our largest American business are owned by foreign corporations such as Budweiser, General Electric, Lucky Strike, Ben & Jerrys, Burger King, American Apparel, 7-Eleven, and Holiday Inn.

With more than 95 percent of the world's population and 80 percent of the world's purchasing power outside of the United States, future American economic growth and job creation depend on open markets abroad. However, it not just our economic future that depends on our ability to be successful in international commerce, but our current economic as well being. Today, over 41 million jobs depend on our international trade.

You may not care a rip about what they do in other countries but what they do certainly has a major effect on our lives in America.

And had the Founders seen what modern governments would do......12 million dead in Europe from the German socialists, 25 million from the Russian socialists, 70 million from the Chinese socialists, they would have mandated gun ownership in every home to guard against government mass murder.....

You don't know what you are talking about...but thanks for being honest about wanting to confiscate guns......it gets old listening to you asswipes lie about your real goals...

Oh...and this lie?

The result has has been the deaths of 1.2 million people in the US between 1968 and 2011, exceeding that of all foreign wars fought by the US.

On average, Americans use their guns 1,500,000 times a year according to bill clinton's Department of Justice study on gun self defense........and that is just one study that puts it that high....

If we take that number and multiply it by that same time period...43 years....we get.....64,500,000 times that Americans used their guns to stop rape, robbery and murder........

Which number is bigger...and that is granting that your number is even accurate....

64,500,000 times guns stop crimes.... vs. 1.2 million deaths from war...


And keep in mind, genius.......

12 million unarmed people murdered by their governments in Europe...since 1917.

25 million unarmed people murdered by their governments in Russia....since 1917.

70 million unarmed people murderd by their governments in China...since 1917


That doesn't include the mass murder happening right now in Mexico as the drug cartels and their police and military allies murder unarmed mexican citizens right across our border....

Or the Armenian Genocide,

Or the Rwandan Genocide....

Cambodia, cuba, ..........

The governments of Europe learned nothing from World War 2 even as survivors of the gas chambers and death camps live among them.....

 

[2aguy]

Bullshit. Craigslist does not allow the sale of any firearms. Any listing that even resembles a firearms listing, gets immediately pulled.

OK, suit yourself. I bought my rifle from a guy a met on the rifle range. No ID, no nothing. Cash transaction. Perfectly legal in my state.

Sure. "Face to face" transactions are perfectly legal in any state. I myself bought 14 firearms from garage sales two years ago.

But the law is that as long as you don't knowingly sell a firearm to a convicted felon or an under-aged person, you're good to go.

Similarly with an automobile: If I sell an automobile to a person without a driver's license and he runs over someone, it's his problem, not mine.

Purchases of guns and automobiles aren't comparable.
Government requires automobiles be registered and drivers be trained and licensed. Neither registration, licensing, or training is required for most gun ownership. Automobiles are built to transport. Guns are made to kill. Thus in this screwed up world, it makes perfect sense to make it hard to own and operate a car but very easy to own and operate a gun.

No, they aren't comparable......car ownership is not a Right, and owning a car is far down on the list of confiscation for left wingers.....

Guns are made to keep the owner alive.

Cars kill more people than guns do every single year. They kill more kids than guns do too....

Nice to hear you agree with me. My first statement in my post was they aren't comparable.

The only people I hear seriously talking about goverment confiscating guns are gun owners. Gun control, done right will not take guns away from law abiding citizens.

Although, I certain don't favor confiscating guns but I certainly hope the number of guns in the country can be reduced over time.

People buy guns today to protect themselves from other people with guns. More guns translate into more gun violence and more media coverage which convinces people to buy more guns. With the country awash in hundreds of millions of guns and the numbers increasing, it's virtually impossible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorist, and the mentally deranged. The only answer gun owners seem to have is buy more guns for protection.

More guns translate into more gun violence and more media coverage which convinces people to buy more guns.

Wrong.....again.

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.