Hurray for justice!

[Hagbard Celine]

Awwwwwwwwww, the poor guy had to endure a few extra needle pricks, and you think he was frustrated? Hahahahahaha. How about his victim he described gurgling as he died?
Ya know what that’s about? It about trying to breath with BLOOD filling your airway!

I don’t feel for this guy at all. Like I said he got off easy.

No, I actually read what a reporter wrote about how he acted when he died because the reporter was there to witness it first-hand. Actually 23 of them were. Apparently Williams appreared frustrated because the executioners could not find a vein. It's not what I think, it's the testimony of a first-person observer. But I guess you'd argue that it's a leftist opinion designed to undermine the righteous ideals of the unconscionably persecuted conservative movement in accordance with the agenda of the vast liberal conspiracy --ppbbtt! Gimme a break.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

It’s not about “teaching” its about punishment for a CRIME.
In this case the punishment was death, the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime of murder, simple.

How is letting a person die a punishment? They get to escape the guilt of having killed somebody. I'd argue that the greater punishment would be being forced to live your entire life in an 8' by 6' cell with a view of a cinder-block wall while reeling nightly with the guilt of having taken someone's life.

Meanwhile, we collectively as a nation have to live with the fact that we let our government kill people in our name, supposedly for our sake.

And it is about "teaching." The number one argument FOR the death penalty is that it is a deterrent to other would-be killers. But that's stupid IMO because who's thinking about life sentences and death penalties WHILE they are killing someone? It's ridiculous and barbaric and it's more in line with Radical Islamic ideals than Western ones.

I mean isn't one of the top five most important ten commandments, the holiest of law documents, "thou shalt not kill?" I guess there's an amendment there I missed..."Thou shalt not kill---unless the killee is a brown person, a woman, a person of a different ethnicity or a criminal."

Don't bring up abortion as an "I caught Hagbard making a mistake" loophole either because I changed my mind on that several months ago--I'm against killing of any kind. One kind of killing isn't more righteous than another, it's all murder. You simply can't legitimize it.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

How is letting a person die a punishment? They get to escape the guilt of having killed somebody. I'd argue that the greater punishment would be being forced to live your entire life in an 8' by 6' cell with a view of a cinder-block wall while reeling nightly with the guilt of having taken someone's life.

Meanwhile, we collectively as a nation have to live with the fact that we let our government kill people in our name, supposedly for our sake.

And it is about "teaching." The number one argument FOR the death penalty is that it is a deterrent to other would-be killers. But that's stupid IMO because who's thinking about life sentences and death penalties WHILE they are killing someone? It's ridiculous and barbaric and it's more in line with Radical Islamic ideals than Western ones.

I mean isn't one of the top five most important ten commandments, the holiest of law documents, "thou shalt not kill?" I guess there's an amendment there I missed..."Thou shalt not kill---unless the killee is a brown person, a woman, a person of a different ethnicity or a criminal."

Don't bring up abortion as an "I caught Hagbard making a mistake" loophole either because I changed my mind on that several months ago--I'm against killing of any kind. One kind of killing isn't more righteous than another, it's all murder. You simply can't legitimize it.

Maybe you can't justify it, but consider the alternative.
Not everyone feels remorse for murder, and we all have to pay for that 8-6 cell with three hots and a cott.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Maybe you can't justify it, but consider the alternative.
Not everyone feels remorse for murder, and we all have to pay for that 8-6 cell with three hots and a cott.

Actually, you're wrong. Executions are more expensive.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Actually, you're wrong. Executions are more expensive.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108

Long term???

 

[archangel]

Actually, you're wrong. Executions are more expensive.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108

your link only shows that it costs 48% more to prosecute a 'Death"penalty case v "life"penalty...what you forgot to add into the cost was the cost of taking care of this person from the onset to the natural death in prison...Figure a rough estimate of some $60,000.00 per year and multiply it by the number of years this person is cared for...well I would bet the difference would be greater!

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

your link only shows that it costs 48% more to prosecute a 'Death"penalty case v "life"penalty...what you forgot to add into the cost was the cost of taking care of this person from the onset to the natural death in prison...Figure a rough estimate of some $60,000.00 per year and multiply it by the number of years this person is cared for...well I would bet the difference would be greater!

 

[The ClayTaurus]

It would be interesting to do the math, especially if you count all the appeals processes associated with a death sentence.

$ Total cost of Indiana's death penalty is 38% greater than the total cost of life without parole sentences

Of course, who's to say what would happen if the death penalty disappeared, perhaps some of those appeals costs would transfer over to life in prison sentences instead.

 

[Mr. P]

He wasn't, and that's the whole point I was trying to make. There are so many failsafes to make sure that a person to be executed is actually guilty that the chance of an innocent man getting executed is very, very small.

Okay, got it..But it shouldn't take so damn long. I think you'd agree with that.

 

[Mr. P]

No, I actually read what a reporter wrote about how he acted when he died because the reporter was there to witness it first-hand. Actually 23 of them were. Apparently Williams appreared frustrated because the executioners could not find a vein. It's not what I think, it's the testimony of a first-person observer. But I guess you'd argue that it's a leftist opinion designed to undermine the righteous ideals of the unconscionably persecuted conservative movement in accordance with the agenda of the vast liberal conspiracy --ppbbtt! Gimme a break.

No, I’d argue it was liberal reporter’s choice of words.

Frustrated just doesn’t fit with what one would feel at execution hour.

Believe he was "just" frustrated it if ya want.

 

[Mr. P]

How is letting a person die a punishment? They get to escape the guilt of having killed somebody. I'd argue that the greater punishment would be being forced to live your entire life in an 8' by 6' cell with a view of a cinder-block wall while reeling nightly with the guilt of having taken someone's life.

...

We didn’t “Let him die” we executed him. Letting this scum live in prison for the rest of his life, while those he killed, are DEAD, would not be justice. Like I said, he paid the ultimate price for the ultimate crime. You would have him LIVE out his life in confinement, with hopes maybe he would FEEL bad, but I wouldn’t.

 

[Mr. P]

...
And it is about "teaching." The number one argument FOR the death penalty is that it is a deterrent to other would-be killers. But that's stupid IMO because who's thinking about life sentences and death penalties WHILE they are killing someone? It's ridiculous and barbaric and it's more in line with Radical Islamic ideals than Western ones.
....

I had several Saudi students at one time. I asked them about there legal system and the public “executions”, and what effect it had. Their response was basically “you’ve seen one, you’ve seen em all”. I asked them about their crime rate, they smiled and sad “LITTLE”.

So, Hagbard is execution a deterrent because it teaches or prevents, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I had several Saudi students at one time. I asked them about there legal system and the public “executions”, and what effect it had. Their response was basically “you’ve seen one, you’ve seen em all”. I asked them about their crime rate, they smiled and sad “LITTLE”.

So, Hagbard is execution a deterrent because it teaches or prevents, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I don't really think we want to be looking at the Saudi way of life as an example for much of anything.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

I don't really think we want to be looking at the Saudi way of life as an example for much of anything.

I can't believe this actually had to be said.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I don't really think we want to be looking at the Saudi way of life as an example for much of anything.

Tsk tsk. Where's your multi-culturalism Clay?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Tsk tsk. Where's your multi-culturalism Clay?

Not in Saudi Arabia, that's for sure.

 

[Mr. P]

I don't really think we want to be looking at the Saudi way of life as an example for much of anything.

Just a cause and effect comparison, in somewhat of a common area, Capital punishment.
The difference is we take much longer to carry it out, and as someone basically said, it losses it's impact. IMO, As a deterrent or Justice.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Just a cause and effect comparison, in somewhat of a common area, Capital punishment.
The difference is we take much longer to carry it out, and as someone basically said, it losses it's impact. IMO, As a deterrent or Justice.

Mr. P, I chased you here just to tell you, I agree with you.

And this didn't even have to happen first:

 

[Hobbit]

On the sixth commandment, the ever quoted "thou shalt not kill." I have a Jewish friend who is fluent in Hebrew and she has read a verbatim copy of this passage, with no adjustments to the language, whatsoever. The word "kill" in this passage is a Hebrew word referring to an unlawful and unjustified killing. There are many places in the Bible where a Hebrew word is translated to mean "kill." The word in the commandment is also used when Cain killed Abel, when Moses killed the man for beating a Jewish slave, and, though a different conjugation, when David had Uriah killed for his wife. However, a different Hebrew word was used to refer to battlefield killings, such as when David killed Goliath, and yet another word for executions, like when Elijah executed the prophets of Baal after the display on Mt. Carmel. Therefore, the idea that this commandment extend the 'no killing' rule to war, executions, or even, as PETA likes to use it, to animals, is completely ludicrous.

Even if this wasn't enough, look at the context. After handing down the commandments, God later detailed in the books of law that homosexuals, rapists, murderers, adulterers, people who stuck their parents, those engaged in beastiality, and many others, were to be stoned to death.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

On the sixth commandment, the ever quoted "thou shalt not kill." I have a Jewish friend who is fluent in Hebrew and she has read a verbatim copy of this passage, with no adjustments to the language, whatsoever. The word "kill" in this passage is a Hebrew word referring to an unlawful and unjustified killing. There are many places in the Bible where a Hebrew word is translated to mean "kill." The word in the commandment is also used when Cain killed Abel, when Moses killed the man for beating a Jewish slave, and, though a different conjugation, when David had Uriah killed for his wife. However, a different Hebrew word was used to refer to battlefield killings, such as when David killed Goliath, and yet another word for executions, like when Elijah executed the prophets of Baal after the display on Mt. Carmel. Therefore, the idea that this commandment extend the 'no killing' rule to war, executions, or even, as PETA likes to use it, to animals, is completely ludicrous.

Even if this wasn't enough, look at the context. After handing down the commandments, God later detailed in the books of law that homosexuals, rapists, murderers, adulterers, people who stuck their parents, those engaged in beastiality, and many others, were to be stoned to death.