Humble Pie Anyone?

[AllieBaba]

Humility and meekness are not hand in glove.

A meek black belt would apologise to end the situation even if he was in the right.

A humble bb would simply walk away, knowing if things got out of hand, he could handle it.

Meek people don't speak up for themselves. A humble person will not allow himself to be wronged.

Will not allow himself to be wronged?

I'll use an example;

It's pouring outside. The boss tells a meek person to go and dig a hole, even though it's against the rules, a meek person will do it. A humble person will politely remind the boss about the rules b/c he doesn't want the boss to get into trouble.

I would say; HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

but then, I ain't all the humble or tolerant.

tolerance is the major issue I'm working on.

Yeah well that's great...but you're way off about meekness and humbleness.

A humble, meek person will not necessarily violate their own principles or code of conduct just because they're told they must.

Christ, who was both, submitted to the law, but refused to recant. So I would assume that a humble, meek person who is law abiding may not fight back if told to do something they know is illegal...but they might just not do it and suffer the consequences.

 

[boedicca]

Humility would be ABS admitting that CG totally owned him in That Thread.

 

[B. Kidd]

ABS, you been 'saved' or something?

 

[boedicca]

Humble people generally can laugh at their own foibles.

 

[Intense]

The word humility signifies lowliness or submissiveness an it is derived from the Latin humilitas or, as St. Thomas says, from humus, i.e. the earth which is beneath us. As applied to persons and things it means that which is abject, ignoble, or of poor condition, as we ordinarily say, not worth much. Thus we say that a man is of humble birth or that a house is a humble dwelling. As restricted to persons, humility is understood also in the sense of afflictions or miseries, which may be inflicted by external agents, as when a man humiliates another by causing him pain or suffering. It is in this sense that others may bring about humiliations and subject us to them. Humility in a higher and ethical sense is that by which a man has a modest estimate of his own worth, and submits himself to others. According to this meaning no man can humiliate another, but only himself, and this he can do properly only when aided by Divine grace. We are treating here of humility in this sense, that is, of the virtue of humility.

The virtue of humility may be defined: "A quality by which a person considering his own defects has a lowly opinion of himself and willingly submits himself to God and to others for God's sake." St. Bernard defines it: "A virtue by which a man knowing himself as he truly is, abases himself." These definitions coincide with that given by St. Thomas: "The virtue of humility", he says, "Consists in keeping oneself within one's own bounds, not reaching out to things above one, but submitting to one's superior" (Summa Contra Gent., bk. IV, ch. lv, tr. Rickaby).

To guard against an erroneous idea of humility, it is necessary to explain the manner in which we ought to esteem our own gifts in reference to the gifts of others, if called upon to make a comparison. Humility does not require us to esteem the gifts and graces which God has granted us, in the supernatural order, less than similar gifts and graces which appear in others. No one should esteem less in himself than in others these gifts of God which are to be valued above all things according to the words of St. Paul: "That we may know the things that are given us from God." (1 Corinthians 2:12). Neither does humility require us in our own estimation to think less of the natural gifts we possess than of similar, or of inferior, gifts in our neighbours; otherwise, as St. Thomas teaches, it would behove everyone to consider himself a greater sinner or a greater fool than his neighbour; for the Apostle without any prejudice to humility was able to say: "We by nature are Jews, and not of the Gentiles sinners" (Galatians 2:15). A man, however, may generally esteem some good in his neighbour which he does not himself possess, or acknowledge some defect or evil in himself which he does not perceive in his neighbour, so that, whenever anyone subjects himself out of humility to an equal or to an inferior he does so because he takes that equal or inferior to be his superior in some respect. Thus we may interpret the humble expressions of the saints as true and sincere. Besides, their great love of God caused them to see the malice of their own faults and sins in a clearer light than that which is ordinarily given to persons who are not saints.
The four cardinal virtues are prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance, and all other moral virtues are annexed to theses either as integral, potential, or subjective parts. Humility is annexed to the virtue of temperance as a potential part, because temperance includes all those virtues that refrain or express the inordinate movements of our desires or appetites. Humility is a repressing or moderating virtue opposed to pride and vainglory or that spirit within us which urges us to great things above our strength and ability, and therefore it is included in temperance just as meekness which represses anger is a part of the same virtue. From what we have here stated it follows that humility is not the first or the greatest of the virtues. The theological virtues have the first place, then the intellectual virtues, as these immediately direct the reason of man to good. Justice is placed in the order of the virtues before humility, and so should obedience be, for it is part of justice. Humility is, however, said to be the foundation of the spiritual edifice, but in a sense inferior to that in which faith is called its foundation. Humility is the first virtue inasmuch as it removes the obstacles to faith — per modum removens prohibens, as St. Thomas says. It removes pride and makes a man subject to and a fit recipient of grace according to the words of St. James: "God resisteth the proud, and giveth his grace to the humble" (James 4:6). Faith is the first and the positive fundamental virtue of all the infused virtues, because it is by it we can take the first step in the supernatural life and in our access to God: "For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him" Hebrews 11:6). Humility, inasmuch as it seems to keep the mind and heart submissive to reason and to God, has its own function in connection with faith and all the other virtues, and it may therefore be said to be a universal virtue.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Humility

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I just learned myself what meekness is (even after reading the Bible for about 10 years) I used to think it meant "weak". It doesn't. It means to be submissive.. so I'd say yeah, that would be part of humility, wouldn't it?

Yep. It is. Meekness is kinda like a black belt martial artist, who although they know how to fight very well and do serious damage, instead of going to fists first, most that I've known over my life would rather talk their way out of a situation than anything else.

Think of the Karate Kid series and look at Mr. Miyagi and how he handles things. That is probably one of the best examples of meekness I can think of.

And yeah.......it is a part of humility.

Being meek is having strength and not using it. While that does look like humility, it is not. Samurai warriors were meek, but they were never humble.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When I was 30 or 31, I came across a really good friend of mine named Ned. Ned was kinda like my mentor for a while, and one day we were talking about humility.

One of the first things that Ned told me was that I had to get a decent definition of the two so that I could understand what they were, as up to that point, I'd considered them to be one and the same.

However, Ned told me that was wrong. He defined humiliation as having an overabundance of confidence in my abilities, and when asked to demonstrate them, I would fail, because I had inflated my own self worth with nothing. So, when asked to do something, I would fail and suffer embarrasment (humiliation) as a direct result.

He then told me about the antidote to humiliation being humility.

Humility as he defined it was a realistic and accurate appraisal of who and what I truly was, followed by a sincere attempt to become the best that I can.

If you were to ask if I rode a bicycle, I'd tell you yeah. If you pressed further and asked me how far I could ride, I would respond that I used to ride 50-100 miles/day for over 8 years in a row (I commuted by bicycle). If you asked me that same question today, I'd tell you that 50 miles is doable, but since I'd been away from the bike for 10 years, I wasn't quite as fast and enduring as I once was, but I'm working to get back as much as I can.

Meekness is also being aware of who and what you truly are, and trying to become better as you go. It's not about bragging to anyone who will hear how good you are at something, it's quietly demonstrating it when asked.

So, if you look at who and what you are (also accepting the things in life that brought you to this point, even though you didn't like some of them, which is why you changed your perspective), and use that knowledge as a starting point to work towards your goals, then you can be considered truly humble.

Interestingly enough........Christians like to talk a lot about accepting Christ into their hearts, but how many of them after realizing what they did, actually try to follow in the footsteps of Yeshua, and learn from what He taught?

That is actually pretty insightful.

Humiliation is not just about over inflating your abilities and failing though. People can be humiliated if someone walks in on them wehn they are doing something private. People are often humiliated when they get sick and loose control of their bodily functions. I used to think that humiliation came from excessive pride, but it is more complicated than that.

Humility can also be a form of pride. If you downplay your position, skills and accomplishments in order to have someone else praise them you are not being humble. Being humble is knowing who, and what you are, and being able to admit it to yourself, and others, without rubbing it in their face.

Being a Christian and being humble does not mean denying your accomplishments.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You're right Quantum.......


There is such a thing as false humility.

 

[AllieBaba]

There sure is.

And I hate to say it, but church is where I've seen it. I can think of 2 preachers and multiple deacons who try as they might just can't pull off humility. They try, but their arrogance and pride just shines right on through.

 

[ABikerSailor]

There sure is.

And I hate to say it, but church is where I've seen it. I can think of 2 preachers and multiple deacons who try as they might just can't pull off humility. They try, but their arrogance and pride just shines right on through.

You're right.

Almost wanna makes me pos rep you for that.





Almost.

 

[Grace]

There sure is.

And I hate to say it, but church is where I've seen it. I can think of 2 preachers and multiple deacons who try as they might just can't pull off humility. They try, but their arrogance and pride just shines right on through.

Yup. Been years and years since I've been to a church. What I saw and experienced in the many I tried, attempting the one that would "fit" me was the same scenario:
Sunday-Praise the Lord! Be kind. Be gentle. Love thy neighbor. Do good deeds. Love the Lord. Do as Jesus taught.
Monday through Saturday-fuck you.

 

[Ernie S.]

It's near impossible to be humble when you're as perfect as I am. But I manage it.

 

[Grace]

lol. Hi Ernie. LTNS. How you been?

 

[Ernie S.]

Been fine. You?

 

[Grace]

Having a blast, myself. Good to hear things are well with you.

 

[AllieBaba]

There sure is.

And I hate to say it, but church is where I've seen it. I can think of 2 preachers and multiple deacons who try as they might just can't pull off humility. They try, but their arrogance and pride just shines right on through.

Yup. Been years and years since I've been to a church. What I saw and experienced in the many I tried, attempting the one that would "fit" me was the same scenario:
Sunday-Praise the Lord! Be kind. Be gentle. Love thy neighbor. Do good deeds. Love the Lord. Do as Jesus taught.
Monday through Saturday-fuck you.

I'm thinking of specific people who really are committed Christian men...two are preachers, a couple more are deacons. They do walk the walk throughout the week, not just in church at all. But they just don't have humility down very well. One was our church's preacher; they gave him 2 years and finally asked him to go because he just wasn't very loving. He was prideful, and could be very cruel, and obviously had a high opinion of himself. The other preacher I think is loving, and while I wouldn't necessarily call him prideful, I thought he was a little too comfortable with his own path...it bordered on smugness. The deacons I'm thinking of..lovely men, really, but they just can't help being self satisfied. At least that's the way they came across to me...but I've got a very finely tuned radar.

 

[Grace]

I know what you are referring to but I can't express it. My immediate thought was Mother Abigail in The Stand. She went off into the wilderness after taking the people to colorado to prepare the battle with The Walking Dude (stephen king novel) and the reason she went was because she got prideful and smug that God chose her but people bowed before HER and not God. And she let it get to her. So yeah. I can relate to what you are saying. I just can't say it myself how I know what you know.

I know. Muddy waters again, lol.

 

[editec]

Humility -- an sensible grasp of reality and your role in it.

 

[Ringel05]

It's near impossible to be humble when you're as perfect as I am. But I manage it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWCRBSz1zY4&feature=related]YouTube - Hard To Be Humble[/ame]

 

[editec]

FALSE humility is as obnoxious as egocentrism, in my anything but humble opinion.