Hoyer says border walls 'obviously' work, rejects Pelosi's suggestion that barrier is 'immorality'

[Meister]

Cracking ...... Do we see a split between Hoyer who actually seems to have a semblance of a brain and recognizes that DemonRATS becoming the American socialist/communists party just will not win the day?....The extremists of his party seem to be gathering the MSM behind them. And surely looking to squeeze any remnants of your fathers Democrat party out of existence.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., acknowledged Wednesday on Fox News' "Special Report with Bret Baier" that border walls "obviously" work in some areas, and he rejected suggestions that barriers should be removed where they already exist.

The No. 2 House Democrat additionally asserted that the question of whether to fund President Trump's proposed border wall -- a dispute at the center of the unprecedented partial federal government shutdown -- is "not an issue of morality."

Hoyer's comments were seemingly at odds with the positions of other House Democrats, who have argued that border walls like the one Trump is proposing are ineffective and immoral.

Read more at foxnews.com ...

We all know Pelosi has voted for border walls fencing barriers and security in the past, right? So when she now says that the Wall is immoral perhaps she doesn’t mean it in the way you are trying to paint.

I know it’s fun to take sound bites like this and spin them to try and demean yoirnpolitical enemies but how about we have honest and smart conversation for once?

I think we both know that she is against Trumps wall and the rhetoric that has surrounded it, not walls in general. Do you agree with that point?

What do you think she meant when she said:



On Dec. 6, she said that additional barrier construction as demanded by President Donald Trump would be “immoral still,” even if the Mexican government paid for it. On Jan. 3, then, responding to reporters’ questions about the partisan standoff over wall funding that has resulted in a shutdown of roughly 25 percent of the federal government, Pelosi said, “A wall is an immorality. It’s not who we are as a nation.”
Pelosi says border walls are 'immoral.' But that's not the conversation we need to be having right now

I think she is referring to Trumps wall, which is more than concrete and steel. It is a two year campaign to push out the poor and only open America to the rich and connected. That is not the message or the people that Dems typically stand up for. Trumps Wall is a more complex campaign than a simple wall and it goes against the values of many on the Left. As I said, Pelosi has funded walls in the past, her objections now have nothing to do with walls, it has to do with Trunps wall. Get what I’m saying?

Yes, I get what your saying, but....That wasn't Pelosi saying it, that was you saying what you THINK she meant.
She has been very specific with her thoughts on ANY KIND of wall or fence. It is the left's never ever Trump mantra.
Not 1 dollar goes to the wall, she says

 

[Meister]

Well Hoyer is about to "commit suicide"

Why? Is he working for Hillary?

 

[Slade3200]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

What about the Democrats shutting down the Government because they aren’t getting their way? C'mon dude, it's a 2-way street, 5 Billion is nothing to these Dem guys and looks to me like strong arm hardball tactics on both sides equally. I think most lib/dems know damn well this is purely about denying Trump rather than any good reason. It's a tough sell for your side when we see that the Dems themselves voted in large numbers for a barrier back in 2006, and we see that a wall IS effective in places like Tucson, San Diego, and El Paso. Walls are being built everywhere else in the world, AND THEY WORK. Do you know of anywhere where a wall isn't effective?

I think as time passes, more and more people are going to shift some blame to the Dems for not working out a deal. And rightfully so.

Yes it is a two way street but Trump made the proclaimation on National TV that he was owning this shut down and it was going to depend on wall funding. That is absurd! Seriously think about it. Out 800k people that have nothing to do with this nonesense out of work to force the other side to give in. On principle alone we should not accept that shit as a proper way to govern let alone reward it.

This situation is long past the simple question about the effectiveness of a wall. I think we all know that, right?

 

[Slade3200]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

Then you'll respect Trump remaining strong in the face of their blithering idiocy.

Do you think Trump is being childish? Fine, call him childish and then fund the government with a bill that has the 5 billion for additional border barrier construction and get those people back to work, provided you care enough about them to do the mature thing and settle your disagreement with Trump AFTER the government is opened again.

At this point, it makes no sense to try and argue that there is a principle involved because you'll then have to acknowledge that both sides are standing on principles and the government can remain partially closed indefinitely. That would actually benefit 100's of millions of Americans.

I do think he is petty and childish. So are the Dems, but in this situation I can’t support rewarding a president for freezing the pay of 800k workers just so he can get his way. That’s insane. If Obama did that you would be losing your shit and you know it.

This isn’t about the wall for me, at this point I don’t think anybody should cave to his strong arm tactics or it sets a horrible precedent on how to handle future issues. This shut down nonesense should never happen again

 

[Slade3200]

Cracking ...... Do we see a split between Hoyer who actually seems to have a semblance of a brain and recognizes that DemonRATS becoming the American socialist/communists party just will not win the day?....The extremists of his party seem to be gathering the MSM behind them. And surely looking to squeeze any remnants of your fathers Democrat party out of existence.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., acknowledged Wednesday on Fox News' "Special Report with Bret Baier" that border walls "obviously" work in some areas, and he rejected suggestions that barriers should be removed where they already exist.

The No. 2 House Democrat additionally asserted that the question of whether to fund President Trump's proposed border wall -- a dispute at the center of the unprecedented partial federal government shutdown -- is "not an issue of morality."

Hoyer's comments were seemingly at odds with the positions of other House Democrats, who have argued that border walls like the one Trump is proposing are ineffective and immoral.

Read more at foxnews.com ...

We all know Pelosi has voted for border walls fencing barriers and security in the past, right? So when she now says that the Wall is immoral perhaps she doesn’t mean it in the way you are trying to paint.

I know it’s fun to take sound bites like this and spin them to try and demean yoirnpolitical enemies but how about we have honest and smart conversation for once?

I think we both know that she is against Trumps wall and the rhetoric that has surrounded it, not walls in general. Do you agree with that point?

What do you think she meant when she said:



On Dec. 6, she said that additional barrier construction as demanded by President Donald Trump would be “immoral still,” even if the Mexican government paid for it. On Jan. 3, then, responding to reporters’ questions about the partisan standoff over wall funding that has resulted in a shutdown of roughly 25 percent of the federal government, Pelosi said, “A wall is an immorality. It’s not who we are as a nation.”
Pelosi says border walls are 'immoral.' But that's not the conversation we need to be having right now

I think she is referring to Trumps wall, which is more than concrete and steel. It is a two year campaign to push out the poor and only open America to the rich and connected. That is not the message or the people that Dems typically stand up for. Trumps Wall is a more complex campaign than a simple wall and it goes against the values of many on the Left. As I said, Pelosi has funded walls in the past, her objections now have nothing to do with walls, it has to do with Trunps wall. Get what I’m saying?

Yes, I get what your saying, but....That wasn't Pelosi saying it, that was you saying what you THINK she meant.
She has been very specific with her thoughts on ANY KIND of wall or fence. It is the left's never ever Trump mantra.
Not 1 dollar goes to the wall, she says

That’s how I understand it and it’s really the only thing that makes logical sense. If she actually meant that walls in general are immoral after funding them for decades then she is batshit crazy. Even though she appears a little nutty I think she knows exactly what she is doing.

 

[task0778]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

What about the Democrats shutting down the Government because they aren’t getting their way? C'mon dude, it's a 2-way street, 5 Billion is nothing to these Dem guys and looks to me like strong arm hardball tactics on both sides equally. I think most lib/dems know damn well this is purely about denying Trump rather than any good reason. It's a tough sell for your side when we see that the Dems themselves voted in large numbers for a barrier back in 2006, and we see that a wall IS effective in places like Tucson, San Diego, and El Paso. Walls are being built everywhere else in the world, AND THEY WORK. Do you know of anywhere where a wall isn't effective?

I think as time passes, more and more people are going to shift some blame to the Dems for not working out a deal. And rightfully so.

Yes it is a two way street but Trump made the proclaimation on National TV that he was owning this shut down and it was going to depend on wall funding. That is absurd! Seriously think about it. Out 800k people that have nothing to do with this nonesense out of work to force the other side to give in. On principle alone we should not accept that shit as a proper way to govern let alone reward it.

This situation is long past the simple question about the effectiveness of a wall. I think we all know that, right?

Yup, it's totally politics, there is no other possible legitimate reason for the Democrats to deny Trump the $5 mil he asked for. The efffectiveness of the wall is not in question, this is absolutely nothing more than the Dems deliberately obstructing Trump for their own political benefit. The Dems could easily work out a deal, we get this and you get your wall. That's what these fuckers are supposed to be doing, why else are they in Washington?

 

[DandyDonovan]

Well Hoyer is about to "commit suicide"

Why? Is he working for Hillary?

More like he went against the borg.

 

[Darkwind]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

Then you'll respect Trump remaining strong in the face of their blithering idiocy.

Do you think Trump is being childish? Fine, call him childish and then fund the government with a bill that has the 5 billion for additional border barrier construction and get those people back to work, provided you care enough about them to do the mature thing and settle your disagreement with Trump AFTER the government is opened again.

At this point, it makes no sense to try and argue that there is a principle involved because you'll then have to acknowledge that both sides are standing on principles and the government can remain partially closed indefinitely. That would actually benefit 100's of millions of Americans.

I do think he is petty and childish. So are the Dems, but in this situation I can’t support rewarding a president for freezing the pay of 800k workers just so he can get his way. That’s insane. If Obama did that you would be losing your shit and you know it.

This isn’t about the wall for me, at this point I don’t think anybody should cave to his strong arm tactics or it sets a horrible precedent on how to handle future issues. This shut down nonesense should never happen again

I cannot support the childishness of two leaders like Pelosi and Schumer who in the past, voted for and appropriated money for the very thing they are now hurting 800k people with. Additionally, if Obama threatened to veto legislation to get his way (Something he did frequently when the GOP held the House and the Dems held the Senate), you'd be supporting him.

 

[Darkwind]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

What about the Democrats shutting down the Government because they aren’t getting their way? C'mon dude, it's a 2-way street, 5 Billion is nothing to these Dem guys and looks to me like strong arm hardball tactics on both sides equally. I think most lib/dems know damn well this is purely about denying Trump rather than any good reason. It's a tough sell for your side when we see that the Dems themselves voted in large numbers for a barrier back in 2006, and we see that a wall IS effective in places like Tucson, San Diego, and El Paso. Walls are being built everywhere else in the world, AND THEY WORK. Do you know of anywhere where a wall isn't effective?

I think as time passes, more and more people are going to shift some blame to the Dems for not working out a deal. And rightfully so.

Yes it is a two way street but Trump made the proclaimation on National TV that he was owning this shut down and it was going to depend on wall funding. That is absurd! Seriously think about it. Out 800k people that have nothing to do with this nonesense out of work to force the other side to give in. On principle alone we should not accept that shit as a proper way to govern let alone reward it.

This situation is long past the simple question about the effectiveness of a wall. I think we all know that, right?

Yup, it's totally politics, there is no other possible legitimate reason for the Democrats to deny Trump the $5 mil he asked for. The efffectiveness of the wall is not in question, this is absolutely nothing more than the Dems deliberately obstructing Trump for their own political benefit. The Dems could easily work out a deal, we get this and you get your wall. That's what these fuckers are supposed to be doing, why else are they in Washington?

What is worse is that the 5 billion is a compromise from 25 billion and the Democrats have said nothing but no the whole way. They never compromise or move off their stated stance. So, Trump can take their lesson and apply it.

 

[DandyDonovan]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

Then you'll respect Trump remaining strong in the face of their blithering idiocy.

Do you think Trump is being childish? Fine, call him childish and then fund the government with a bill that has the 5 billion for additional border barrier construction and get those people back to work, provided you care enough about them to do the mature thing and settle your disagreement with Trump AFTER the government is opened again.

At this point, it makes no sense to try and argue that there is a principle involved because you'll then have to acknowledge that both sides are standing on principles and the government can remain partially closed indefinitely. That would actually benefit 100's of millions of Americans.

I do think he is petty and childish. So are the Dems, but in this situation I can’t support rewarding a president for freezing the pay of 800k workers just so he can get his way. That’s insane. If Obama did that you would be losing your shit and you know it.

This isn’t about the wall for me, at this point I don’t think anybody should cave to his strong arm tactics or it sets a horrible precedent on how to handle future issues. This shut down nonesense should never happen again

I cannot support the childishness of two leaders like Pelosi and Schumer who in the past, voted for and appropriated money for the very thing they are now hurting 800k people with. Additionally, if Obama threatened to veto legislation to get his way (Something he did frequently when the GOP held the House and the Dems held the Senate), you'd be supporting him.

The only difference is the Republicans always caved to Obama so he didn't have to play hardball with them .

 

[Darkwind]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

Then you'll respect Trump remaining strong in the face of their blithering idiocy.

Do you think Trump is being childish? Fine, call him childish and then fund the government with a bill that has the 5 billion for additional border barrier construction and get those people back to work, provided you care enough about them to do the mature thing and settle your disagreement with Trump AFTER the government is opened again.

At this point, it makes no sense to try and argue that there is a principle involved because you'll then have to acknowledge that both sides are standing on principles and the government can remain partially closed indefinitely. That would actually benefit 100's of millions of Americans.

I do think he is petty and childish. So are the Dems, but in this situation I can’t support rewarding a president for freezing the pay of 800k workers just so he can get his way. That’s insane. If Obama did that you would be losing your shit and you know it.

This isn’t about the wall for me, at this point I don’t think anybody should cave to his strong arm tactics or it sets a horrible precedent on how to handle future issues. This shut down nonesense should never happen again

I cannot support the childishness of two leaders like Pelosi and Schumer who in the past, voted for and appropriated money for the very thing they are now hurting 800k people with. Additionally, if Obama threatened to veto legislation to get his way (Something he did frequently when the GOP held the House and the Dems held the Senate), you'd be supporting him.

The only difference is the Republicans always caved to Obama so he didn't have to play hardball with them .

I know. Time for that to stop.

 

[DandyDonovan]

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

Then you'll respect Trump remaining strong in the face of their blithering idiocy.

Do you think Trump is being childish? Fine, call him childish and then fund the government with a bill that has the 5 billion for additional border barrier construction and get those people back to work, provided you care enough about them to do the mature thing and settle your disagreement with Trump AFTER the government is opened again.

At this point, it makes no sense to try and argue that there is a principle involved because you'll then have to acknowledge that both sides are standing on principles and the government can remain partially closed indefinitely. That would actually benefit 100's of millions of Americans.

I do think he is petty and childish. So are the Dems, but in this situation I can’t support rewarding a president for freezing the pay of 800k workers just so he can get his way. That’s insane. If Obama did that you would be losing your shit and you know it.

This isn’t about the wall for me, at this point I don’t think anybody should cave to his strong arm tactics or it sets a horrible precedent on how to handle future issues. This shut down nonesense should never happen again

I cannot support the childishness of two leaders like Pelosi and Schumer who in the past, voted for and appropriated money for the very thing they are now hurting 800k people with. Additionally, if Obama threatened to veto legislation to get his way (Something he did frequently when the GOP held the House and the Dems held the Senate), you'd be supporting him.

The only difference is the Republicans always caved to Obama so he didn't have to play hardball with them .

I know. Time for that to stop.

And that is why the left have truly hated Trump from the start. They are scared to death of him. He doesnt give a fuck what they think of him, or what the media says about him, and he doesn't mind playing their game one bit, and so they can't just bully him the way they have past Republicans.

 

[Slade3200]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

What about the Democrats shutting down the Government because they aren’t getting their way? C'mon dude, it's a 2-way street, 5 Billion is nothing to these Dem guys and looks to me like strong arm hardball tactics on both sides equally. I think most lib/dems know damn well this is purely about denying Trump rather than any good reason. It's a tough sell for your side when we see that the Dems themselves voted in large numbers for a barrier back in 2006, and we see that a wall IS effective in places like Tucson, San Diego, and El Paso. Walls are being built everywhere else in the world, AND THEY WORK. Do you know of anywhere where a wall isn't effective?

I think as time passes, more and more people are going to shift some blame to the Dems for not working out a deal. And rightfully so.

Yes it is a two way street but Trump made the proclaimation on National TV that he was owning this shut down and it was going to depend on wall funding. That is absurd! Seriously think about it. Out 800k people that have nothing to do with this nonesense out of work to force the other side to give in. On principle alone we should not accept that shit as a proper way to govern let alone reward it.

This situation is long past the simple question about the effectiveness of a wall. I think we all know that, right?

Yup, it's totally politics, there is no other possible legitimate reason for the Democrats to deny Trump the $5 mil he asked for. The efffectiveness of the wall is not in question, this is absolutely nothing more than the Dems deliberately obstructing Trump for their own political benefit. The Dems could easily work out a deal, we get this and you get your wall. That's what these fuckers are supposed to be doing, why else are they in Washington?

I agree but don’t you think it sets a horrible precedent for the president to shut the government down unless he gets wall funding? Agree with the wall or not, I don’t see how you can justify the tactic. What if a future president shuts the government down until they get amnesty or single payer health care or some other poloctacal agenda item?!

These strong arm tactics at the expense of government workers is embarrassing and extremely unethical in my opinion. They shouldnt be rewarded or they will be used again

 

[Slade3200]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

Then you'll respect Trump remaining strong in the face of their blithering idiocy.

Do you think Trump is being childish? Fine, call him childish and then fund the government with a bill that has the 5 billion for additional border barrier construction and get those people back to work, provided you care enough about them to do the mature thing and settle your disagreement with Trump AFTER the government is opened again.

At this point, it makes no sense to try and argue that there is a principle involved because you'll then have to acknowledge that both sides are standing on principles and the government can remain partially closed indefinitely. That would actually benefit 100's of millions of Americans.

I do think he is petty and childish. So are the Dems, but in this situation I can’t support rewarding a president for freezing the pay of 800k workers just so he can get his way. That’s insane. If Obama did that you would be losing your shit and you know it.

This isn’t about the wall for me, at this point I don’t think anybody should cave to his strong arm tactics or it sets a horrible precedent on how to handle future issues. This shut down nonesense should never happen again

I cannot support the childishness of two leaders like Pelosi and Schumer who in the past, voted for and appropriated money for the very thing they are now hurting 800k people with. Additionally, if Obama threatened to veto legislation to get his way (Something he did frequently when the GOP held the House and the Dems held the Senate), you'd be supporting him.

Childish is shutting down the gov over the wall. That was Trumps call. You can keep trying to turn the blame but it won’t work Trump owned it

 

[DandyDonovan]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

What about the Democrats shutting down the Government because they aren’t getting their way? C'mon dude, it's a 2-way street, 5 Billion is nothing to these Dem guys and looks to me like strong arm hardball tactics on both sides equally. I think most lib/dems know damn well this is purely about denying Trump rather than any good reason. It's a tough sell for your side when we see that the Dems themselves voted in large numbers for a barrier back in 2006, and we see that a wall IS effective in places like Tucson, San Diego, and El Paso. Walls are being built everywhere else in the world, AND THEY WORK. Do you know of anywhere where a wall isn't effective?

I think as time passes, more and more people are going to shift some blame to the Dems for not working out a deal. And rightfully so.

Yes it is a two way street but Trump made the proclaimation on National TV that he was owning this shut down and it was going to depend on wall funding. That is absurd! Seriously think about it. Out 800k people that have nothing to do with this nonesense out of work to force the other side to give in. On principle alone we should not accept that shit as a proper way to govern let alone reward it.

This situation is long past the simple question about the effectiveness of a wall. I think we all know that, right?

Yup, it's totally politics, there is no other possible legitimate reason for the Democrats to deny Trump the $5 mil he asked for. The efffectiveness of the wall is not in question, this is absolutely nothing more than the Dems deliberately obstructing Trump for their own political benefit. The Dems could easily work out a deal, we get this and you get your wall. That's what these fuckers are supposed to be doing, why else are they in Washington?

I agree but don’t you think it sets a horrible precedent for the president to shut the government down unless he gets wall funding? Agree with the wall or not, I don’t see how you can justify the tactic. What if a future president shuts the government down until they get amnesty or single payer health care or some other poloctacal agenda item?!

These strong arm tactics at the expense of government workers is embarrassing and extremely unethical in my opinion. They shouldnt be rewarded or they will be used again

Desparate times call for desparate measures, and these are desparate times. The Democrats MUST be broken. It isn't just about the wall, if it were Trump would simply declare the national emergency and build the wall. This is about breaking the DNC and making them do that which they do ot want to to do at all, negotiate with Trump. If he doesn't push this all the way now for the next two years Pelosi will do the same thing over EVERYTHING .

This is exactly how you deal with a bully, you don't give in and give him your lunch money, because if you do, he's going to be back the next day wanting your lunch money. Instead you punch him in the mouth. Then the next day he goes and looks for someone else's lunch money.

 

[task0778]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

What about the Democrats shutting down the Government because they aren’t getting their way? C'mon dude, it's a 2-way street, 5 Billion is nothing to these Dem guys and looks to me like strong arm hardball tactics on both sides equally. I think most lib/dems know damn well this is purely about denying Trump rather than any good reason. It's a tough sell for your side when we see that the Dems themselves voted in large numbers for a barrier back in 2006, and we see that a wall IS effective in places like Tucson, San Diego, and El Paso. Walls are being built everywhere else in the world, AND THEY WORK. Do you know of anywhere where a wall isn't effective?

I think as time passes, more and more people are going to shift some blame to the Dems for not working out a deal. And rightfully so.

Yes it is a two way street but Trump made the proclaimation on National TV that he was owning this shut down and it was going to depend on wall funding. That is absurd! Seriously think about it. Out 800k people that have nothing to do with this nonesense out of work to force the other side to give in. On principle alone we should not accept that shit as a proper way to govern let alone reward it.

This situation is long past the simple question about the effectiveness of a wall. I think we all know that, right?

Yup, it's totally politics, there is no other possible legitimate reason for the Democrats to deny Trump the $5 mil he asked for. The efffectiveness of the wall is not in question, this is absolutely nothing more than the Dems deliberately obstructing Trump for their own political benefit. The Dems could easily work out a deal, we get this and you get your wall. That's what these fuckers are supposed to be doing, why else are they in Washington?

I agree but don’t you think it sets a horrible precedent for the president to shut the government down unless he gets wall funding? Agree with the wall or not, I don’t see how you can justify the tactic. What if a future president shuts the government down until they get amnesty or single payer health care or some other poloctacal agenda item?!

These strong arm tactics at the expense of government workers is embarrassing and extremely unethical in my opinion. They shouldnt be rewarded or they will be used again

I am under the impression that this is NOT unprecedented, Presidents have been doing this since Carter at least. It's not like the Dems offered a deal that included funding the wall in exchange for this or that, the Dems have not budged that I know of from offering absolutely NOTHING. So, in my view, they are as complicit in this whole sorry mess as Trump and the GOP is. They shoulda got the wall funded before the Dems took back the House IMHO, so there's a lotta blame to go around.

Check this out:

Timeline of U.S. Government Shutdowns

 

[Slade3200]

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

What about the Democrats shutting down the Government because they aren’t getting their way? C'mon dude, it's a 2-way street, 5 Billion is nothing to these Dem guys and looks to me like strong arm hardball tactics on both sides equally. I think most lib/dems know damn well this is purely about denying Trump rather than any good reason. It's a tough sell for your side when we see that the Dems themselves voted in large numbers for a barrier back in 2006, and we see that a wall IS effective in places like Tucson, San Diego, and El Paso. Walls are being built everywhere else in the world, AND THEY WORK. Do you know of anywhere where a wall isn't effective?

I think as time passes, more and more people are going to shift some blame to the Dems for not working out a deal. And rightfully so.

Yes it is a two way street but Trump made the proclaimation on National TV that he was owning this shut down and it was going to depend on wall funding. That is absurd! Seriously think about it. Out 800k people that have nothing to do with this nonesense out of work to force the other side to give in. On principle alone we should not accept that shit as a proper way to govern let alone reward it.

This situation is long past the simple question about the effectiveness of a wall. I think we all know that, right?

Yup, it's totally politics, there is no other possible legitimate reason for the Democrats to deny Trump the $5 mil he asked for. The efffectiveness of the wall is not in question, this is absolutely nothing more than the Dems deliberately obstructing Trump for their own political benefit. The Dems could easily work out a deal, we get this and you get your wall. That's what these fuckers are supposed to be doing, why else are they in Washington?

I agree but don’t you think it sets a horrible precedent for the president to shut the government down unless he gets wall funding? Agree with the wall or not, I don’t see how you can justify the tactic. What if a future president shuts the government down until they get amnesty or single payer health care or some other poloctacal agenda item?!

These strong arm tactics at the expense of government workers is embarrassing and extremely unethical in my opinion. They shouldnt be rewarded or they will be used again

Desparate times call for desparate measures, and these are desparate times. The Democrats MUST be broken. It isn't just about the wall, if it were Trump would simply declare the national emergency and build the wall. This is about breaking the DNC and making them do that which they do ot want to to do at all, negotiate with Trump. If he doesn't push this all the way now for the next two years Pelosi will do the same thing over EVERYTHING .

This is exactly how you deal with a bully, you don't give in and give him your lunch money, because if you do, he's going to be back the next day wanting your lunch money. Instead you punch him in the mouth. Then the next day he goes and looks for someone else's lunch money.

Yeah yeah, and I’m sure you have counterparts on the Dems side who are saying the same thing about republicans. It’s people like you with that mentality from both sides that are the problem and getting us nowhere. These fights should be held in the political forum and decided by elections, not at the expense of hundreds of thousands of workers via a government shutdown. Times are never desperate enough to excuse this type of action from a POTUS. It’s pathetic.

 

[Slade3200]

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

What about the Democrats shutting down the Government because they aren’t getting their way? C'mon dude, it's a 2-way street, 5 Billion is nothing to these Dem guys and looks to me like strong arm hardball tactics on both sides equally. I think most lib/dems know damn well this is purely about denying Trump rather than any good reason. It's a tough sell for your side when we see that the Dems themselves voted in large numbers for a barrier back in 2006, and we see that a wall IS effective in places like Tucson, San Diego, and El Paso. Walls are being built everywhere else in the world, AND THEY WORK. Do you know of anywhere where a wall isn't effective?

I think as time passes, more and more people are going to shift some blame to the Dems for not working out a deal. And rightfully so.

Yes it is a two way street but Trump made the proclaimation on National TV that he was owning this shut down and it was going to depend on wall funding. That is absurd! Seriously think about it. Out 800k people that have nothing to do with this nonesense out of work to force the other side to give in. On principle alone we should not accept that shit as a proper way to govern let alone reward it.

This situation is long past the simple question about the effectiveness of a wall. I think we all know that, right?

Yup, it's totally politics, there is no other possible legitimate reason for the Democrats to deny Trump the $5 mil he asked for. The efffectiveness of the wall is not in question, this is absolutely nothing more than the Dems deliberately obstructing Trump for their own political benefit. The Dems could easily work out a deal, we get this and you get your wall. That's what these fuckers are supposed to be doing, why else are they in Washington?

I agree but don’t you think it sets a horrible precedent for the president to shut the government down unless he gets wall funding? Agree with the wall or not, I don’t see how you can justify the tactic. What if a future president shuts the government down until they get amnesty or single payer health care or some other poloctacal agenda item?!

These strong arm tactics at the expense of government workers is embarrassing and extremely unethical in my opinion. They shouldnt be rewarded or they will be used again

I am under the impression that this is NOT unprecedented, Presidents have been doing this since Carter at least. It's not like the Dems offered a deal that included funding the wall in exchange for this or that, the Dems have not budged that I know of from offering absolutely NOTHING. So, in my view, they are as complicit in this whole sorry mess as Trump and the GOP is. They shoulda got the wall funded before the Dems took back the House IMHO, so there's a lotta blame to go around.

Check this out:

Timeline of U.S. Government Shutdowns

The Dems have put up several bipartisan bills that would fund the government and contribute to border security. Trump is making it about his wall because it was something he campaigned on. Trump is the one that won’t consider a deal unless he gets money for his wall. Y’all are trying to make compromise be about how much he gets. The Dems are fighting against the principle of holding workers pay for a political win.

I don’t care what past presidents have done. I don’t agree with the tactic, especially when it starts having such dramatic effects on American workers and businesses that have nothing to do with the fight. The tactic should be condemned not rewarded

 

[Darkwind]

My understanding is that there are quite a few Dem freshmen Reps in the House that want to get things done so they can go back to their constituents and say I did this and that. Most of the newbies are not from deep blue states or districts and their chances of re-election won't be too good if the only thing they can tell the voters is that they obstructed the hell out of Trump. I suspect that as this shutdown continues support for the Dems is going to erode; nobody seriously believes that they care about 5 measly billion dollars, this is about power politics and everybody knows it. Which is not going to play well in Peoria in 2020.

What about the principle of a President shutting down the Government because he isn’t getting his way? Trump owned this one. He made it a wall or nothing game. There is no way you are going to shift all blame to Dems. The Dems do have some blame in the state of affairs but I actually respect them staying strong to Trumps strong arm tactics. That shit should not be how we govern and it should not be rewarded.

The Dems should put up a clear border security bill and market those ideas while Trump sits on his thumb

Then you'll respect Trump remaining strong in the face of their blithering idiocy.

Do you think Trump is being childish? Fine, call him childish and then fund the government with a bill that has the 5 billion for additional border barrier construction and get those people back to work, provided you care enough about them to do the mature thing and settle your disagreement with Trump AFTER the government is opened again.

At this point, it makes no sense to try and argue that there is a principle involved because you'll then have to acknowledge that both sides are standing on principles and the government can remain partially closed indefinitely. That would actually benefit 100's of millions of Americans.

I do think he is petty and childish. So are the Dems, but in this situation I can’t support rewarding a president for freezing the pay of 800k workers just so he can get his way. That’s insane. If Obama did that you would be losing your shit and you know it.

This isn’t about the wall for me, at this point I don’t think anybody should cave to his strong arm tactics or it sets a horrible precedent on how to handle future issues. This shut down nonesense should never happen again

I cannot support the childishness of two leaders like Pelosi and Schumer who in the past, voted for and appropriated money for the very thing they are now hurting 800k people with. Additionally, if Obama threatened to veto legislation to get his way (Something he did frequently when the GOP held the House and the Dems held the Senate), you'd be supporting him.

Childish is shutting down the gov over the wall. That was Trumps call. You can keep trying to turn the blame but it won’t work Trump owned it

I'll blame whoever I wish, without regard to what the left has to say.

The facts are the facts.

Democrats voted for barrier construction in the past, in fact, they passionatly debated for it. They now will not fund it because they oppose Trump and they have it well within their power to write -vote - pass legislation that opens the government and builds additional border barriers.

Trump has already compromised. It it BEYOND time that the Democrats started.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Hoyer? Brady’s backup?