How will US economy ever recover?

[topspin]

ghook, I posted in another spot 10% cut accross the board cuts, and 20% military.
I'm fiscally conservative and socially way far left liberal.

 

[The Rabbi]

(6) Get rid of the income, capital gains, payroll, sales and corporate tax and replace it with the Fair Tax or VAT Tax.

A lot of good suggestions, except for VAT. VAT is a hidden tax added at each step of the supply chain. Taxes should be transparent. A Fair Tax or an end user Sales Tax which is separate from the purchase price accomplishes this.

I like Paul Ryan's Roadmap:

A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

If the VAT replaces income, sales, corporate, capital gains and the payroll tax then I am for it. If you look at my signature, I have been a Fair Tax fan for a while!

You should look at a recent WSJ article on the VAT in Britain. There unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats make rules as to what falls within VAT and what doesn't. It is crazy.
After reading that I could not support anything like a VAT or Fair Tax. Flat tax is different and seems to work well.

 

[GHook93]

(6) Get rid of the income, capital gains, payroll, sales and corporate tax and replace it with the Fair Tax or VAT Tax.

A lot of good suggestions, except for VAT. VAT is a hidden tax added at each step of the supply chain. Taxes should be transparent. A Fair Tax or an end user Sales Tax which is separate from the purchase price accomplishes this.

I like Paul Ryan's Roadmap:

A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

I dont like the VAT or Fair tax because it empowers bureaucrats to make decisions as to what is taxed and what isn't. The WSJ had a great article on how this works in Britain.
I do favor a flat tax with elimination of deductions. Keep it simple, scooter.

I am not as familiar with VAT tax as I am with the Fair Tax. I was under the assumption they were similar.

The flat tax does not eliminate the Corporate, Sales, Payroll, Capital Gains or Income Tax. Really it does little. If we are going to tax income, then a progressive tax, where the rich pay the bulk is by far the best way. Lossing 25% of your pay checks means more to a person on minimum wage then it does to the $250K a year person.

The fair tax eliminates these C, S, P, CG and I tax, hence making America a very attractive place to move and/or keep your business in, including manufacturing companies!

 

[GHook93]

ghook, I posted in another spot 10% cut accross the board cuts, and 20% military.
I'm fiscally conservative and socially way far left liberal.

By socially left do you mean pro-abortion, pro-gun control and pro-fag marriage, or do you mean pro-entitlements programs. If its the later your can't be a fiscal conservative.

 

[The Rabbi]

A lot of good suggestions, except for VAT. VAT is a hidden tax added at each step of the supply chain. Taxes should be transparent. A Fair Tax or an end user Sales Tax which is separate from the purchase price accomplishes this.

I like Paul Ryan's Roadmap:

A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

I dont like the VAT or Fair tax because it empowers bureaucrats to make decisions as to what is taxed and what isn't. The WSJ had a great article on how this works in Britain.
I do favor a flat tax with elimination of deductions. Keep it simple, scooter.

I am not as familiar with VAT tax as I am with the Fair Tax. I was under the assumption they were similar.

The flat tax does not eliminate the Corporate, Sales, Payroll, Capital Gains or Income Tax. Really it does little. If we are going to tax income, then a progressive tax, where the rich pay the bulk is by far the best way. Lossing 25% of your pay checks means more to a person on minimum wage then it does to the $250K a year person.

The fair tax eliminates these C, S, P, CG and I tax, hence making America a very attractive place to move and/or keep your business in, including manufacturing companies!

It does not eliminate them. It shifts them to a different vehicle. One that is far less transparent.
Flat tax simply makes income taxes simpler. That would include income from cap gains.
You are right they are similar. That is why they are so bad. Do you want a bureaucrat deciding whether your dog food is for household pets, subject to the tax, or for racing dogs, and not subject? That is part of the VAT regime in Britain.
Really, if you like the idea of national sales tax, then you have to go read the article about how it is implemented in Britain. And you wont be a fan of it any longer.

And progressive income tax sucks. Why would you want to punish success and hard work? I'd favor a regressive tax that rewards people for working hard and getting ahead over a progressive one. The "stick it to the rich" mentality is a loser.

 

[editec]

I know that the percentage owing stocks has exploded since the advent of the 401K. To pretent most of America doesn't benefit from a flurishing stock market is comical.

I'm not pretending that nor did I say that.

What I am doing is asking you if you have a good source for how these simple stats about stock ownership really break down.

Do you?

Can you tell me please, at least by economic quintile, what percentage of corporate stocks and liquid assets each quntil owns?

And better still can you break down the top 20% into the top 10%, 5% 1% and 1/10th of 1%.

These figures will be much more illuminating for ALL of us, than your simple (even if it is completely accurate) take of asset distribution.

I'm not seeking to WIN A DEBATE here, mate, I am seeking to arrive at a MEANINGFULLY useful truth.

 

[topspin]

ghook, I posted in another spot 10% cut accross the board cuts, and 20% military.
I'm fiscally conservative and socially way far left liberal.

By socially left do you mean pro-abortion, pro-gun control and pro-fag marriage, or do you mean pro-entitlements programs. If its the later your can't be a fiscal conservative.

you are retarded and so are your policies. Those are social policies dork

 

[topspin]

I know that the percentage owing stocks has exploded since the advent of the 401K. To pretent most of America doesn't benefit from a flurishing stock market is comical.

I'm not pretending that nor did I say that.

What I am doing is asking you if you have a good source for how these simple stats about stock ownership really break down.

Do you?

Can you tell me please, at least by economic quintile, what percentage of corporate stocks and liquid assets each quntil owns?

And better still can you break down the top 20% into the top 10%, 5% 1% and 1/10th of 1%.

These figures will be much more illuminating for ALL of us, than your simple (even if it is completely accurate) take of asset distribution.

I'm not seeking to WIN A DEBATE here, mate, I am seeking to arrive at a MEANINGFULLY useful truth.

I'm not debating that the top quintile own the most stocks. It took me a while to get in it, I like the top quintile. What you fail to recognize is everyone wants to be in it, and many make the rise of several quintiles in thier careers.

 

[GHook93]

ghook, I posted in another spot 10% cut accross the board cuts, and 20% military.
I'm fiscally conservative and socially way far left liberal.

By socially left do you mean pro-abortion, pro-gun control and pro-fag marriage, or do you mean pro-entitlements programs. If its the later your can't be a fiscal conservative.

you are retarded and so are your policies. Those are social policies dork

Please explain. I find myself supporting abortion in the first term and STRONGLY pro-fag marriage and against the don't ask don't tell (and allowing fags in the military), however, I don't like all the entitlements.

 

[topspin]

classic homeless guy ranting about liberals

 

[KissMy]

Moody’s Cuts Ireland’s Credit Rating

Ireland’s efforts to pull out of a deep economic slump suffered a setback Monday when a major credit agency downgraded the country’s bond rating, citing a weak banking system and rising debt.

Moody’s Investors Service downgraded Ireland one notch, to Aa2 from Aa1, although it remains comfortably above junk level. Moody’s also changed the outlook on the ratings to stable from negative.

“Today’s downgrade is primarily driven by the Irish government’s gradual but significant loss of financial strength, as reflected by its deteriorating debt affordability,” said Dietmar Hornung, a senior credit officer at Moody’s.

The agency also said that the downgrade had been driven by the increased burden in liability for banks after a series of recapitalization measures led by the state.

 

[psikeyhackr]

It's 40 years after the Moon landing and most people can't figure out the economy has been running on PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE for decades.

Get the book THE SCREWING OF THE AVERAGE MAN, copyright 1974.

Ask an economist how much Americans have lost on the depreciation of automobiles every year since the Moon landing.

What do you mean they don't collect those statistics?

Demand Side Depreciation is a Lie of Ommision by the entire economics profession.

The disintigration of the middle class is an example of the PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE of the working classes.

The American middle class became obsolete the moment the communist system fell apart, and the American master class no longer had a viable threat to their international hegemony.

It is certainly curious that the experts on Communism haven't pointed out that Capitalist economists have been ignoring the depreciation of all of the durable consumer goods around the worlds. How many hundreds of billions of dollars would that have been for every year for the last 50 years.

Considering that double-entry accounting is 700 years old and developed in Italy it is certainly curious that with all of the cheap computers today that our educators don't suggest that accounting should be mandatory for EVERYONE by now. Accounting was among the first uses of computers by big corporations in the 50s and netbooks are more powerful than that old junk so why isn't competent capitalism good for everybody in America.

Adam Smith talked about enlightened self interest. But American capitalism doesn't seem to be interested in enlightening everyone. The schools are designed to produce dumb worker/consumers that go into debt for junk.

psik

 

[topspin]

Blashaphemy, wtf I don't want accountants salaries going down in the next 5 yrs. After that teach all the acct you want. Right now I like that everybody thinks it's the hardest curriculum in Business.

 

[editec]

I know that the percentage owing stocks has exploded since the advent of the 401K. To pretent most of America doesn't benefit from a flurishing stock market is comical.

I'm not pretending that nor did I say that.

What I am doing is asking you if you have a good source for how these simple stats about stock ownership really break down.

Do you?

Can you tell me please, at least by economic quintile, what percentage of corporate stocks and liquid assets each quntil owns?

And better still can you break down the top 20% into the top 10%, 5% 1% and 1/10th of 1%.

These figures will be much more illuminating for ALL of us, than your simple (even if it is completely accurate) take of asset distribution.

I'm not seeking to WIN A DEBATE here, mate, I am seeking to arrive at a MEANINGFULLY useful truth.

I'm not debating that the top quintile own the most stocks.

Proably a good idea since that is very likely the case and you and I both know it.

It took me a while to get in it, I like the top quintile.

How nice for you.

What you fail to recognize is everyone wants to be in it, and many make the rise of several quintiles in thier careers.

Again, interesting, but hardly germane.

 

[topspin]

what exactly is the harm of having millions of millionaires?
I'd ask you what model works better, but I know it's not out there.

 

[GHook93]

what exactly is the harm of having millions of millionaires?
I'd ask you what model works better, but I know it's not out there.

Hey stoner, why not quote the person your attempting to debate with so people can figure out who you are annoying!

 

[topspin]

what exactly is the harm of having millions of millionaires?
I'd ask you what model works better, but I know it's not out there.

Hey stoner, why not quote the person your attempting to debate with so people can figure out who you are annoying!

Hey homeless dude, drink less hateraid.

I have no problem with your choice to be poor, I choose to be rich. Don't hate.

I would be responding to the educated ones, which likely wouldn't include you.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Blashaphemy, wtf I don't want accountants salaries going down in the next 5 yrs. After that teach all the acct you want. Right now I like that everybody thinks it's the hardest curriculum in Business.

You demonstrate perfectly how the system really works.

People are constantly hiding information from each other and pretending that many things are more difficult to understand than they really are.

All computers are von Neumann machines but I was never told that in years at IBM. Even though IBM hired John von Neumann as a consultant in 1952.

The educational system is designed to control the distribution of knowledge and maintain the economic class structure. Computers and the internet are a way to alter the global distribution of knowledge. That is the waiting social revolution of the 21st century.

If we really wanted to educate people wouldn't a national recommended reading list have been the way to do it decades ago? I have a couple of accounting books. Neither of them has something as simple as a cash flow diagram. Accounting books are not written to teach accounting they are written to make money teaching accounting. What would the economy be like if EVERYONE had been trained to concentrate on NET WORTH for the last 50 years?

NAZInomics is built on teaching the approved lies.

If you are going to tell a lie, tell a BIG LIE.

How does the entire economics profession forget to talk about the depreciation of all of the automobiles on the planet for the last 60 years? How many cars had been manufactured by the time Keynes published his book by 1936? Technology and planned obsolescence have changed the economy. But economists are technological morons. They think money is more important than anything else.

psik

 

[topspin]

Nice rant hacker. Only education is the escalator up. anybody can go, but by your take you want to read a library book or two and be up their with some kid who busts his ass for four years in accounting. I give that whine a five star on the whabulance scale.

rastafari, you know what I mean

 

[hvactec]

Unemployment Extensions bill passed 3pm 7/20/2010 - 60 Yes - 40 No
34 billion will last until November
People that Used up the 99 weeks can no longer collect.. link http://www.mlive.com/michigan-job-s...senate_advances_unemployment_extension_o.html