How will US economy ever recover?

[rdean]

Get ready to be barraged by the "This is America, you can be as successful as you want" crowd.

It must really suck to be replaced at work by an illiterate Mexican. That explains a lot about your bitterness.

In fact it is hard for people to remember that the unemployment rate in this country from 2001 to 2007 was around 5%. We faced a severe shortage of labor, which accounts for a lot of the illegals here.
So outsourcing is not the cause of job loss. Actually the U.S. is a net importer of jobs being outsourced from elsewhere.
The main problem is the Democrats. If the U.S. really wants a strong vibrant economy we will outlaw the Democratic Party.

You are such an idiot. Republicans moved jobs overseas.

 

[KissMy]

You are such an idiot. Republicans moved jobs overseas.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhwhMXOxHTg"]NAFTA[/ame]

 

[MikeK]

The next decade will be a decade where labor does better than capital and when the middle and lower classes do better than the rich.

I hope you're right.

A fundamental shift is now occurring in the global economy. Offshoring will become far less important if not irrelevant. Why? Because wages are soaring in China and there are labour shortages. This will make it more expensive and less desirable to offshore labor. In fact it is the educated and upper classes who will begin to feel pressure as their jobs start to move offshore as Asians become more educated and productive.

Good points.

 

[The Rabbi]

Get ready to be barraged by the "This is America, you can be as successful as you want" crowd.

It must really suck to be replaced at work by an illiterate Mexican. That explains a lot about your bitterness.

In fact it is hard for people to remember that the unemployment rate in this country from 2001 to 2007 was around 5%. We faced a severe shortage of labor, which accounts for a lot of the illegals here.
So outsourcing is not the cause of job loss. Actually the U.S. is a net importer of jobs being outsourced from elsewhere.
The main problem is the Democrats. If the U.S. really wants a strong vibrant economy we will outlaw the Democratic Party.

You are such an idiot. Republicans moved jobs overseas.

You are one of the biggest morons on this board. Possibly the biggest. Don't refute anything I write with actual facts. Just name call. And then engage in partisan rhetoric.
The U.S. is a net importer of jobs. THis is fact.
You are a moron of the first order, never having even met a Republican. This is also a fact.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You are such an idiot. Republicans moved jobs overseas.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhwhMXOxHTg"]NAFTA[/ame]

Disappearing LMSM Monopoly Kudos!

Ahhh man it's sucks Alaskan moose cock to be a Progressive today. They keep forgetting that they lost control of the message, so they get exposed as liars time and time again.

 

[Againsheila]

Get ready to be barraged by the "This is America, you can be as successful as you want" crowd.

It must really suck to be replaced at work by an illiterate Mexican. That explains a lot about your bitterness.

In fact it is hard for people to remember that the unemployment rate in this country from 2001 to 2007 was around 5%. We faced a severe shortage of labor, which accounts for a lot of the illegals here.
So outsourcing is not the cause of job loss. Actually the U.S. is a net importer of jobs being outsourced from elsewhere.
The main problem is the Democrats. If the U.S. really wants a strong vibrant economy we will outlaw the Democratic Party.

Sometimes I think people who take economics classes only remember what they want. There has been no shortage of workers, if there was, the lower wages would INCREASE to bring in more workers. Instead, the wage gap has gotten worse, not better.

 

[The Rabbi]

Get ready to be barraged by the "This is America, you can be as successful as you want" crowd.

It must really suck to be replaced at work by an illiterate Mexican. That explains a lot about your bitterness.

In fact it is hard for people to remember that the unemployment rate in this country from 2001 to 2007 was around 5%. We faced a severe shortage of labor, which accounts for a lot of the illegals here.
So outsourcing is not the cause of job loss. Actually the U.S. is a net importer of jobs being outsourced from elsewhere.
The main problem is the Democrats. If the U.S. really wants a strong vibrant economy we will outlaw the Democratic Party.

Sometimes I think people who take economics classes only remember what they want. There has been no shortage of workers, if there was, the lower wages would INCREASE to bring in more workers. Instead, the wage gap has gotten worse, not better.

Sometimse I think people never took economics or slept through the whole thing.
The "wage gap" is not a measure of anything. Up until 2005 how many people earned min wage? I suspect the presence of illegals in low paid fields served to keep wages low.

 

[Againsheila]

It must really suck to be replaced at work by an illiterate Mexican. That explains a lot about your bitterness.

In fact it is hard for people to remember that the unemployment rate in this country from 2001 to 2007 was around 5%. We faced a severe shortage of labor, which accounts for a lot of the illegals here.
So outsourcing is not the cause of job loss. Actually the U.S. is a net importer of jobs being outsourced from elsewhere.
The main problem is the Democrats. If the U.S. really wants a strong vibrant economy we will outlaw the Democratic Party.

Sometimes I think people who take economics classes only remember what they want. There has been no shortage of workers, if there was, the lower wages would INCREASE to bring in more workers. Instead, the wage gap has gotten worse, not better.

Sometimse I think people never took economics or slept through the whole thing.
The "wage gap" is not a measure of anything. Up until 2005 how many people earned min wage? I suspect the presence of illegals in low paid fields served to keep wages low.

So you admit, there was no shortage of workers, the illegals were brought in to take our jobs and keep our wages artificially low.

supply and demand....when the supply decreased (fewer workers) the wages would have increased but since that never happened, there was no shortage of workers, NONE, ZERO, NADA.

In fact minimum wage today has the lowest spending power in history, obviously not a sign of fewer low wage workers, but more low wage workers.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sometimes I think people who take economics classes only remember what they want. There has been no shortage of workers, if there was, the lower wages would INCREASE to bring in more workers. Instead, the wage gap has gotten worse, not better.

Sometimse I think people never took economics or slept through the whole thing.
The "wage gap" is not a measure of anything. Up until 2005 how many people earned min wage? I suspect the presence of illegals in low paid fields served to keep wages low.

So you admit, there was no shortage of workers, the illegals were brought in to take our jobs and keep our wages artificially low.

supply and demand....when the supply decreased (fewer workers) the wages would have increased but since that never happened, there was no shortage of workers, NONE, ZERO, NADA.

In fact minimum wage today has the lowest spending power in history, obviously not a sign of fewer low wage workers, but more low wage workers.

Again, with unemployment around 5% for most of the 2000s there was a shortage of workers. This attracted illegals, who weren't competing with anyone since there weren't any workers for those jobs.
Wages probably did increase. Do you have evidence that they did not at the low end of the employment spectrum? If so, post it.
THe min wage is a racist antique designed to keep Blacks out of the marketplace. It has eliminated many entry level jobs. Surely someone with a fine background in econ as you claim know what setting an artificial price does to a market.

 

[Againsheila]

Sometimse I think people never took economics or slept through the whole thing.
The "wage gap" is not a measure of anything. Up until 2005 how many people earned min wage? I suspect the presence of illegals in low paid fields served to keep wages low.

So you admit, there was no shortage of workers, the illegals were brought in to take our jobs and keep our wages artificially low.

supply and demand....when the supply decreased (fewer workers) the wages would have increased but since that never happened, there was no shortage of workers, NONE, ZERO, NADA.

In fact minimum wage today has the lowest spending power in history, obviously not a sign of fewer low wage workers, but more low wage workers.

Again, with unemployment around 5% for most of the 2000s there was a shortage of workers. This attracted illegals, who weren't competing with anyone since there weren't any workers for those jobs.
Wages probably did increase. Do you have evidence that they did not at the low end of the employment spectrum? If so, post it.
THe min wage is a racist antique designed to keep Blacks out of the marketplace. It has eliminated many entry level jobs. Surely someone with a fine background in econ as you claim know what setting an artificial price does to a market.

The last several times the minimum wage was raised, there was no net loss of jobs.

There were people to do those low wage jobs. Trust me, I worked in the fields. The last day I showed up for the bus, I brought my sister in law from Thailand. They took everyone there but me. Coincidentally, everyone else was Asian, I was the only Caucasian, my how things change in 2 years. I worked as a maid. My friend has been pushed out of two jobs working as a maid over the last 30 years, by the Hispanics who, when they come in, they take over and when the hours have to be cut, it's always the Americans, the Caucasians whose hours are cut, not the Hispanics. At one point she was working 6 hours a week, you try and live on that.

There are no jobs Americans will not do, there have never been jobs Americans will not do. It's a LIE brought about by the uber wealthy who want an excuse to bring in illegals and keep our wages low.

If you really know anything about economics, you know that if you put the money in the hands of those who will spend it HERE, it will help our economy. Right now, the money is in the hands of the wealthy and the illegals, going overseas. Not much help for our economy from either of them.

When JFK reduced taxes, he reduced them on the middle and lower classes and the economy improved (ie. the saved money went immediately and directly into the economy), the complete opposite of Reagan's and Bush's tax cuts.

I find it amazing that every wants capitalism, but only when it benefits them. All those bailouts were socialism NOT capitalism. Amazing how we have socialism for the wealthy and the bankers, but capitalism for the rest of us.

The unemployment rate has not been accurate for many, many years. The poll was changed when Reagan got into office the same way the cost of living increase was changed to make things look better for him.

 

[Douger]

Businesses moved jobs overseas for cheap labor. Now those people, in China for instance, are striking for higher wages and benefits such as "healthcare". Eventually, they will move back here or other companies will take their place.

But you're forgetting there's still one continent left of untapped cheap labor where the people ar so poor that they'll gladly work for a fraction of what the Chinese workers get.

And there's a lot of them.

North murka ?

 

[The Rabbi]

So you admit, there was no shortage of workers, the illegals were brought in to take our jobs and keep our wages artificially low.

supply and demand....when the supply decreased (fewer workers) the wages would have increased but since that never happened, there was no shortage of workers, NONE, ZERO, NADA.

In fact minimum wage today has the lowest spending power in history, obviously not a sign of fewer low wage workers, but more low wage workers.

Again, with unemployment around 5% for most of the 2000s there was a shortage of workers. This attracted illegals, who weren't competing with anyone since there weren't any workers for those jobs.
Wages probably did increase. Do you have evidence that they did not at the low end of the employment spectrum? If so, post it.
THe min wage is a racist antique designed to keep Blacks out of the marketplace. It has eliminated many entry level jobs. Surely someone with a fine background in econ as you claim know what setting an artificial price does to a market.

The last several times the minimum wage was raised, there was no net loss of jobs.

There were people to do those low wage jobs. Trust me, I worked in the fields. The last day I showed up for the bus, I brought my sister in law from Thailand. They took everyone there but me. Coincidentally, everyone else was Asian, I was the only Caucasian, my how things change in 2 years. I worked as a maid. My friend has been pushed out of two jobs working as a maid over the last 30 years, by the Hispanics who, when they come in, they take over and when the hours have to be cut, it's always the Americans, the Caucasians whose hours are cut, not the Hispanics. At one point she was working 6 hours a week, you try and live on that.

There are no jobs Americans will not do, there have never been jobs Americans will not do. It's a LIE brought about by the uber wealthy who want an excuse to bring in illegals and keep our wages low.

If you really know anything about economics, you know that if you put the money in the hands of those who will spend it HERE, it will help our economy. Right now, the money is in the hands of the wealthy and the illegals, going overseas. Not much help for our economy from either of them.

When JFK reduced taxes, he reduced them on the middle and lower classes and the economy improved (ie. the saved money went immediately and directly into the economy), the complete opposite of Reagan's and Bush's tax cuts.

I find it amazing that every wants capitalism, but only when it benefits them. All those bailouts were socialism NOT capitalism. Amazing how we have socialism for the wealthy and the bankers, but capitalism for the rest of us.

The unemployment rate has not been accurate for many, many years. The poll was changed when Reagan got into office the same way the cost of living increase was changed to make things look better for him.

If the unemployment rate has not been accurate then how do you know no jobs were lost?
The economy improved with Reagan's and Bush's tax cuts. Or do you not read the papers?
I find it amazing that people are so blinded by class envy that they refuse to recognize reality and instead offer incorrect generalizations and self-contradictory analyses.
In fact raising the min wage reduces such jobs. When was the last time you saw a movie theater usher? Or a gas jockey who checked your oil and wiped your windshield? Yet these were standard jobs, especially for teenagers.

 

[william the wie]

Sorry Rabbi I normally agree with you but the gimmicking of the Unemployment rate did begin under Reagan and got much worse under Clinton. No one trusts BLS figures any more or for that matter CPI (google hedonics for a quick giggle), GDP (long story) or even the national debt numbers (the estimates of bad debts held off the books by GSEs and the Fed start at the admitted 5T and go up from there). Shadow Government Statistics does a respected job of correcting for the BS but I doubt they catch it all.

To take one of my pet peeves Net National Investment (NNI) has a depreciation contra-asset account to cover replacement costs but no allowance to recapture under-depreciation in previous years. With inflation being continuous from 1958 until the first quarter of this year that's 52 years of overstated investment (about 5 times overstated at 3% inflation if I calculated it right) which in turn greatly overstates GDP which in part is calculated as a multiple of NNI. That calculates out to a real GDP that is possibly as low as 8 T. Serious estimates of current unemployment start out at about 16% and go way from there. Them books ain't just cooked they are double baked.

 

[editec]

The next decade will be a decade where labor does better than capital and when the middle and lower classes do better than the rich.

A fundamental shift is now occurring in the global economy. Offshoring will become far less important if not irrelevant. Why? Because wages are soaring in China and there are labour shortages. This will make it more expensive and less desirable to offshore labor. In fact it is the educated and upper classes who will begin to feel pressure as their jobs start to move offshore as Asians become more educated and productive.

Yup, I think there's something to that, Toro.

The discontent that formerly was the fate of the "unskilled workers" (many of whom were in fact highly skilled, I note) is now becoming the fate of the managerial classes, too.

There's one fuck of a lot of smart people in the third world.

So sooner or later, Americans, if they EVER get their political will together, are going to do whatever it takes to protect their OWN economy from this trend.

It's not easy because CAPTIAL benefits from pitting workers in one nation against the other.

And CAPITAL owns our government.

 

[Care4all]

If and when all the boomers retire, it will create a labor shortage in this country, which will cause salaries to rise for the middle class....that's my best guess.

and salaries are not rising in china for their lower and middle classes, not to the degree that it will help us....we got another 10-20 years before that happens and businesses have other countries to go to that pay less like vietnam and banglidesh and indonesia before it will "help" us.....besides the fact that China has been allowed to manipulate their yen (money) so that labor costs are still way cheaper there....we need to stop this manipulation.

 

[psikeyhackr]

It's 40 years after the Moon landing and most people can't figure out the economy has been running on PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE for decades.

Get the book THE SCREWING OF THE AVERAGE MAN, copyright 1974.

Ask an economist how much Americans have lost on the depreciation of automobiles every year since the Moon landing.

What do you mean they don't collect those statistics?

Demand Side Depreciation is a Lie of Ommision by the entire economics profession.

psik

 

[editec]

It's 40 years after the Moon landing and most people can't figure out the economy has been running on PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE for decades.

Get the book THE SCREWING OF THE AVERAGE MAN, copyright 1974.

Ask an economist how much Americans have lost on the depreciation of automobiles every year since the Moon landing.

What do you mean they don't collect those statistics?

Demand Side Depreciation is a Lie of Ommision by the entire economics profession.

psik

The disintigration of the middle class is an example of the PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE of the working classes.


The American middle class became obsolete the moment the communist system fell apart, and the American master class no longer had a viable threat to their international hegemony.

 

[topspin]

poor people are funny. The economy is already recovering. What the poor and middle class will do is wait to invest until every possible positive bit of information is in, after most of the money is already made then they jump in.

 

[topspin]

Recessions happen on average every 7 years. we always recover.

 

[boedicca]

We've never had a recession in which the government did so much to undermine the private sector and retard private job creation. You are making the mistake of assuming that the private sector will not alter its behavior no matter the taxes and regulatory burdens placed upon it.

You're wrong.

We have achieved a critical mass of Big Government Cronyism which risks the U.S falling into unrecoverable slow growth high employment European style statism.

Here's a good read explaining the nature of our Ruling Class (the underlying cause of why recovery will not be healthy):

The American Spectator : America's Ruling Class -- And the Perils of Revolution