How will US economy ever recover?

seltzer

Rookie
Jul 16, 2010
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Let me ask you experts a very simple & straight question - will US ever recover?

After decades of job outsourcing there are not many jobs left anymore. Without jobs we must rely on food stamps.

Let's face it - except select few elite CEOs and white-collar professionals, the rest of us are competing with Indians and Chinese who work for less than $1 a day.

Globalization made those elites very rich over the years while the rest of us became poor. The middle class is collapsing fast.

Is there any reason not to believe that in the future there will be a very select few rich employed people and a swarm of unemployed? What kind of country will that be? Even today, top 1% owns 83% of all US stocks - clearly, wealth distribution is not happening and it's only getting worse.

Proof: google "22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America"

How can we become a nation of producers of goods to keep us employed when it's cheaper to produce everything overseas?

In theory, CEOs will keep outsourcing til our wages become equal that of Chinese. But before we reach that point the country will disintegrate first. Big corporations and the rich will survive because they'll just move their companies and assets overseas.

So let me ask you again - how can we ever recover? I just can't see how, like a tide that cannot be turned, milk that cannot be un-spilled.
 
If you have any money at all, and would like to keep it, these are the guys you should be listening to.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNGVQflUUN0]YouTube - Peter Schiff - Dollar Collapse part 1 of 3[/ame]
 
Get ready to be barraged by the "This is America, you can be as successful as you want" crowd.
 
At best, with Obama gone and some Statesmen, NOT politicians in Office in 2012, it would take 4 years to begin to undo the damage and start moving the economy in the right direction.

It would take another 4 years to insure the Economy and Nation were on the correct path.

This would not be without "Pain" for those newly freed from the Gubmit Plantation.

Worst case and most probable case, "We the Sheeple", stumble along for another 2 or 3 years until our Creditors tear up our Credit Cards, call their Paper and send us straight to Economic Hell or what folks with IQs higher than their shoe size call "Reality."

Then comes hyperinflation as the Gubmit in power tries to remain in power, vis a vis Zimbabwe.

Then comes "Balkanization."

Whether the Empire of Amerika comes apart peacefully of violently is the only question.

I give the Empire 36-60 months before collapse.
 
You're spot on Pepe.
But there has to be a new war. A BIG war.
That movie will be opening soon.

There has never been a century without a major conflagration.

This will be no exception.

War has been used since history was first recorded as a political leaders option to take the subjects minds off their current plight.

Plenty of boogeymen out there.

Just ask the Liberals and Neocons.
 
Let me ask you experts a very simple & straight question - will US ever recover?

No. It will change into something else and our masters will eventually call that recovery.

After decades of job outsourcing there are not many jobs left anymore. Without jobs we must rely on food stamps.

Truer and truer every damned day.

Let's face it - except select few elite CEOs and white-collar professionals, the rest of us are competing with Indians and Chinese who work for less than $1 a day.

And the problem continues to migrate from no skilled, to semiskilled to highly skilled types of jobs, too.
Globalization made those elites very rich over the years while the rest of us became poor. The middle class is collapsing fast.


Western World wide, I note.

Is there any reason not to believe that in the future there will be a very select few rich employed people and a swarm of unemployed?

Yes.

Trends like these seldom last long.

Sooner or later something very good or very bad comes along to so drastically change the state of affairs, that such predictions look foolish in restrospect.

What kind of country will that be? Even today, top 1% owns 83% of all US stocks - clearly, wealth distribution is not happening and it's only getting worse.

If it happens, which I doubt, it would look like neo Feudalism.

Proof: google "22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America"

I used to be in the middle class.

How can we become a nation of producers of goods to keep us employed when it's cheaper to produce everything overseas?

Tariffs (read fair trade)

OR

we just get so damned poor that WE BECOME the third world workers.

In theory, CEOs will keep outsourcing til our wages become equal that of Chinese.

In theory, we won't eventually get so sick of their shit that we won't have a civil war, too.

But before we reach that point the country will disintegrate first.

And it will happen so gradually that we'll be able to deny it is happening, and when we cannot deny it, then we;ll be told is all our faults by the apologists for the Masters.

(sound familiar?)

Big corporations and the rich will survive because they'll just move their companies and assets overseas.

My only complaint about the above is that you've put the verbs in the wrong tense.

They won't do that in the future, they'be been doing that for the last 40 years that I know of and I see no reason to imagine they're going to stop doing it either.

So let me ask you again - how can we ever recover? I just can't see how, like a tide that cannot be turned, milk that cannot be un-spilled.

You cannot turn back the clock. There's no do overs in history

All we can do it try to mitigate the problems we have today and plan for for a better future.
 
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The next decade will be a decade where labor does better than capital and when the middle and lower classes do better than the rich.

A fundamental shift is now occurring in the global economy. Offshoring will become far less important if not irrelevant. Why? Because wages are soaring in China and there are labour shortages. This will make it more expensive and less desirable to offshore labor. In fact it is the educated and upper classes who will begin to feel pressure as their jobs start to move offshore as Asians become more educated and productive.
 
The total assets of our entire country is something close to 200 trillion dollars.
We still have a great infrastructure and the best scientists and engineers in the world.

Every time the Republicans were in the majority, the gap in income between the rich and the middle class widened. Every time the Democrats have been in power, the gap lessened.

The 8 years of Bush were a special case. For a long period of time, Republicans controlled both houses. That right there is enough to cause enormous damage. Look at the apology to BP, the name calling of the unemployed. Call a spade a spade. The Republican leadership has nothing but disdain for the average American.

And because of 9/11 the Democrats were afraid to fight th GOP and why was that? Because the GOP, the party of lies, would throw out the "patriot" card. Either you are with us or with the terrorists. They still use it today calling anyone who disagrees with them "terrorist sympathizers".

The US Economy will recover. It has been recovering. One sure road to disaster is electing Republicans.

Why do Republicans hate government? The real reason. They are afraid of "government takeover". They only tell that to their base to rile them up. No serious minded person actually believes that.

Take a look at the Republican leadership in congress. Most are worth from 10 million to tens of millions. Even John McCain, when asked, "How much means you're rich", said that if you make over 5 million, you could be considered "rich". 4 million is not rich, but 5 million is.

Businesses moved jobs overseas for cheap labor. Now those people, in China for instance, are striking for higher wages and benefits such as "healthcare". Eventually, they will move back here or other companies will take their place.

How fast depends on who is in power. If it's Republicans, it will take a very long time. They hate government. Government means safety regulations and protects the average American from those big companies. Republicans care about "profit", screw the average person.
 
Here's How:

Phase I


1. Eliminate all Capital gain and Estate Taxes, cut top income tax to 25%
2. All federal programs excluding entitlement (Phase II) and defense sunset and must be reauthorized
3. No taxes on any newly formed business for its first 5 years
4. Repeal All Obama legislation and replace with Free Market solutions, return all unspent Stimulus funds
5. Fast track all energy production especially new nuclear power plant and drilling and refining oil

It took Progressives 100 year to mess it up, it's going to take a generation to bring it back from the brink.

Phase II

1. Eliminate Department of Ed, Tennessee Valley Authority, HUD, etc.
2. Term limit Congress
3. All districts must be comprised of a shape have only 4 straight sides and 4 angles that add up to 360 degrees (the line that comprises the state border need not be straight)
4. Repeal 16th Amendment, states must fund their ratable portion of the federal government, no personal income tax
5. Partial privatization of SocSec, Medicare, repeal BushDrug Plan
 
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Get ready to be barraged by the "This is America, you can be as successful as you want" crowd.

It must really suck to be replaced at work by an illiterate Mexican. That explains a lot about your bitterness.

In fact it is hard for people to remember that the unemployment rate in this country from 2001 to 2007 was around 5%. We faced a severe shortage of labor, which accounts for a lot of the illegals here.
So outsourcing is not the cause of job loss. Actually the U.S. is a net importer of jobs being outsourced from elsewhere.
The main problem is the Democrats. If the U.S. really wants a strong vibrant economy we will outlaw the Democratic Party.
 
Businesses moved jobs overseas for cheap labor. Now those people, in China for instance, are striking for higher wages and benefits such as "healthcare". Eventually, they will move back here or other companies will take their place.


But you're forgetting there's still one continent left of untapped cheap labor where the people ar so poor that they'll gladly work for a fraction of what the Chinese workers get.

And there's a lot of them.
 
The next decade will be a decade where labor does better than capital and when the middle and lower classes do better than the rich.

A fundamental shift is now occurring in the global economy. Offshoring will become far less important if not irrelevant. Why? Because wages are soaring in China and there are labour shortages. This will make it more expensive and less desirable to offshore labor. In fact it is the educated and upper classes who will begin to feel pressure as their jobs start to move offshore as Asians become more educated and productive.
That could and would be true if the Fed and treasury were not cribbing from the Japanese playbook of how to have a recovery. It might turn out to be true anyway because the US is one of the very few developed countries without crappy demographics when immigration is subtracted out but if the US becomes a lean mean exporting machine who will buy the exports?

To take an example I know you are acquainted with Canada minus immigration is depopulating. What you may not realize is that the same is increasingly true even in poor nations such as Greece, Chile and much of Africa. The UN has been predicting maximum world population will be hit in 2060 if trendlines continue. Now eventually those trendlines will reverse but average age will be way up there when it does happen and healthy older workers buy a lot fewer products of all kinds. This isn't the 20th century anymore, the product life cycle is shortening due to innovation and the substitution of capital for labor is becoming a major problem worldwide: robots, nanotech, computers and machine tools will keep going down in cost.

You are absolutely right that the legal profession, programming and medicine is being outsourced and eventually automation will eliminate most of those jobs worldwide. The singularity of substituting capital for labor may be in the rearview mirror so I find your argument incomplete.
 
Creativity & new innovation will kick in to save us once again. High energy prices will be the biggest headwind we will face. Solving this problem is one of the innovations that will create jobs to save us. Also the boomer's are retiring in mass creating job openings & soon will create jobs for us to take care of them.

The locomotive, crop & animal hybrids, steam shovel, automobile, industrialization, automation, robotics, computer & internet did not take us down. Cheap foreigners, Genetics & Nanobots will not get us either. Just roll with the punches & do some fighting back.
 
Businesses moved jobs overseas for cheap labor. Now those people, in China for instance, are striking for higher wages and benefits such as "healthcare". Eventually, they will move back here or other companies will take their place.


But you're forgetting there's still one continent left of untapped cheap labor where the people ar so poor that they'll gladly work for a fraction of what the Chinese workers get.

And there's a lot of them.

Nobody wants to invest in Africa though. They could do it now if they wanted to but lousy infrastructure, corrupt leaders and lack of rule of law dissuades investors.
 
How will US economy ever recover?

when the fundamental human drive of greed is finally addressed as the key component to our systemic demise.....
 

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