How Can Anyone Defend This...

[jillian]

Is anyone else tired of this BS thats been going on now, which the U.S. is subsidizing to the tune of @ $2,000,000,000/yr. BTW, for the last 40+ years?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into muslim countries over the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into african countries for the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into latin america?

and israel troubles you?

damn, what's wrong with my side of the aisle on this issue?

it's retarded.

They have been the largest recipient of foreign aid. No other country compares. Add to that, they've been caught spying on the U.S. > once:
Israel seeks release of spy in exchange for extending settlement freeze | World news | The Guardian

Israel is seeking the release of an American jailed for life for spying for the Jewish state in return for concessions in the renewed peace process with the Palestinians, including the extension of a partial freeze on the expansion of settlements in the occupied territories.

Thats extortion and they resumed building the illegal settlements too. Now all the conservatives are up in arms against that Army Private. Well? Should the U.S. release him too?

what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?

why shouldn't israel build until they have a peace treaty? who on earth unilaterally agrees to the demands of people who wage war against them?

that's nuts.

as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.

 

[Dot Com]

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into muslim countries over the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into african countries for the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into latin america?

and israel troubles you?

damn, what's wrong with my side of the aisle on this issue?

it's retarded.

They have been the largest recipient of foreign aid. No other country compares. Add to that, they've been caught spying on the U.S. > once:
Israel seeks release of spy in exchange for extending settlement freeze | World news | The Guardian

Israel is seeking the release of an American jailed for life for spying for the Jewish state in return for concessions in the renewed peace process with the Palestinians, including the extension of a partial freeze on the expansion of settlements in the occupied territories.

Thats extortion and they resumed building the illegal settlements too. Now all the conservatives are up in arms against that Army Private. Well? Should the U.S. release him too?

what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?

why shouldn't israel build until they have a peace treaty? who on earth unilaterally agrees to the demands of people who wage war against them?

that's nuts.

as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.

I went over this yesterday:
West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The West Bank (Arabic: الضفة الغربية*, aḍ-Ḍiffä l-Ġarbīyä

Legal status

The United Nations Security Council,[65] the United Nations General Assembly,[66] the United States,[67] the EU,[68] the International Court of Justice,[69] and the International Committee of the Red Cross[70] refer to it as Palestinian territory occupied by Israel. General Assembly resolution 58/292 (17 May 2004) affirmed that the Palestinian people have the right to sovereignty over the area

I thought the U.S. was a nation that abides by the rule of law

 

[P F Tinmore]

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into muslim countries over the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into african countries for the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into latin america?

and israel troubles you?

damn, what's wrong with my side of the aisle on this issue?

it's retarded.

They have been the largest recipient of foreign aid. No other country compares. Add to that, they've been caught spying on the U.S. > once:
Israel seeks release of spy in exchange for extending settlement freeze | World news | The Guardian

Israel is seeking the release of an American jailed for life for spying for the Jewish state in return for concessions in the renewed peace process with the Palestinians, including the extension of a partial freeze on the expansion of settlements in the occupied territories.

Thats extortion and they resumed building the illegal settlements too. Now all the conservatives are up in arms against that Army Private. Well? Should the U.S. release him too?

what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?

why shouldn't israel build until they have a peace treaty? who on earth unilaterally agrees to the demands of people who wage war against them?

that's nuts.

as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.

what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?

Please document the surrender and peace agreement.

 

[Ropey]

"General Assembly resolution 58/292"

This is not a law.

The Meaning of Resolution 242 and 338​

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On November Twenty Two, Nineteen Sixty Seven, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution two four two, establishing the principles that were to guide the negotiations for an Arab-Israeli peace settlement. This resolution was a tortuously negotiated compromise between competing proposals.

By examining what was discarded as well as the language that appears, it is possible to discern the Security Council's intent. The first point addressed by the resolution is the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war." Some people read two four two as though it ends here and the case for requiring a total Israeli withdrawal from the territories is proven. On the contrary, this clause does no such thing, because the reference clearly applies only to an offensive war. If not, the resolution would provide an incentive for aggression. If one country attacks another, and the defender repels the attack and acquires territory in the process, the former interpretation would require the defender to return the land it took. Thus, aggressors would have little to lose because they would be insured against the main consequence of defeat. The ultimate goal of Two Four Two, as expressed in paragraph three, is the achievement of a "peaceful and accepted settlement." This means a negotiated agreement based on the resolution's principles rather than one imposed upon the parties.

This is also the implication of Resolution Three Three Eight. That resolution, adopted after the nineteen seventy three war, called for negotiations between the parties to start immediately and concurrently with the cease fire.

Withdrawal from Territories - Resolution Two Four Two​

The most controversial clause in Resolution 242 is the call for the "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict." This is linked to the second unambiguous clause calling for "termination of all claims or states of belligerency" and the recognition that "every State in the area" has the "right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."

The resolution does not make Israeli withdrawal a prerequisite for Arab action. Moreover, it does not specify how much territory Israel is required to give up. The Security Council did not say Israel must withdraw from "all the" territories occupied after the Six Day war. This was quite deliberate. The Soviet delegate wanted the inclusion of those words and said that their exclusion meant "that part of these territories can remain in Israeli hands." The Arab states pushed for the word "all" to be included, but this was rejected.

Arabs nevertheless made the assertion that they would read the resolution as if it included the word "all." The British Ambassador who drafted the approved resolution, Lord Caradon, declared after the vote: "It is only the resolution that will bind us, and we regard its wording as clear." This literal interpretation was repeatedly declared to be the correct one by those involved in drafting the resolution. On October Twenty Nine, Nineteen Sixty Nine, for example, the British Foreign Secretary told the House of Commons the withdrawal envisaged by the resolution would not be from "all the territories."

When asked to explain the British position later, Lord Caradon: [URL="http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_un_242.php"]said: "It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its positions of June fourth, Nineteen Sixty Seven, because those positions were undesirable and artificial."[/URL]

UN Resolution 242 clearly calls on the Arab states to make peace with Israel. ​

The principal condition is that Israel withdraw from "territories occupied" in nineteen sixty seven, which means that Israel must withdraw from some, all, or none of the territories still occupied. Since Israel withdrew from ninety one percent of the territories when it gave up the Sinai, it has already partially, if not wholly, fulfilled its obligation under 242.

Arab states also objected to the call for "secure and recognized boundaries" because they feared this implied negotiations with Israel. The Arab League explicitly ruled this out at Khartoum in August nineteen sixty seven,, when it proclaimed the three "noes." This phrase was specifically included because the parties were expected to make "territorial adjustments in their peace settlement encompassing less than a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from occupied territories inasmuch as Israel's prior frontiers had proved to be notably insecure."

The question, then, is whether Israel has to give up any additional territory. Now that peace agreements have been signed with Egypt and Jordan, the only remaining territorial disputes are with Lebanon and Syria.

Israel's conflict with Lebanon is a result of fighting after nineteen sixty seven and is therefore irrelevant to 242 (Israel has said it would withdraw to the international border if a treaty is signed and the central government takes control of northern border areas currently in the hands of terror militant groups).

U.N. RESOLUTION 242: ORIGIN, MEANING, AND SIGNIFICANCE​

The dispute with Syria is over the Golan Heights. Israeli Prime Minister Rubin expressed a willingness to negotiate a compromise in exchange for peace, however President Assad refused to consider even a limited peace treaty unless Israel first agreed to a complete withdrawal.

Under 242, Israel has no obligation to withdraw from any part of the Golan Heights in the absence of a peace accord with Syria. It is also important to realize that other Arab states that continue to maintain a state of war with Israel, or have refused to grant Israel diplomatic recognition, such as Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Libya have no territorial disputes with Israel. They have nevertheless conditioned their relations on an Israeli withdrawal to the previous sixty seven borders. Although ignored by most analysts, Resolution 242 does have other provisions.

One requirement in that section is that freedom of navigation be guaranteed.​

It is important to remind people this clause was included because a principal cause of the nineteen sixty seven war was Egypt's blockade of the Strait of Tiran.

Israel's Obligation to the Palestinians under Resolution 242?

THE PALESTINIANS ARE NOT MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN RESOLUTION 242!! ​

They are only alluded to in the second clause of the second article of 242, which calls for "a just settlement of the refugee problem." Nowhere does it require that Palestinians be given any political rights or territory. In fact, the use of the generic term "refugee" was a deliberate acknowledgment that two refugee problems were products of the conflict one Arab and another Jew. In the case of the latter, almost as many Jews fled Arab countries as Palestinians left Israel!! The Jews however, were never compensated by the Arab states, nor were any UN organizations ever established to help them.

In a statement to the General Assembly October fifteen, Nineteen Sixty Eight, the PLO, rejecting Resolution 242, said "the implementation of said resolution will lead to the loss of every hope for the establishment of peace and security in Palestine and the Middle East region."

By contrast, Ambassador Abba Eban expressed Israel's position to the Security Council on May First, 1968:

"My government has indicated its acceptance of the Security Council resolution for the promotion of agreement on the establishment of a just and lasting peace. I am also authorized to reaffirm that we are willing to seek agreement with each Arab State on all matters included in that resolution."​

It took nearly a quarter century, but the PLO finally agreed that Resolutions 242 and 338 should be the basis for negotiations with Israel when it signed the Declaration of Principles in September nineteen ninety three.

And let's remember.

The Resolution 242 was stated as, "But A Recommendation."

Considering there are 57 Muslim countries who vote as a block against Israel it's not surprising General Assembly resolutions (non binding) are released.

But this is about the murder of a family.

 

[rikules]

What is wrong with you?

I'll take that as a non- answer. They were on Palestinian property and we all know how conservatives feel inre: property- rights don't we? They willfully decided to settle on land that belongs to someone else UNDER THE LAW.

Why did you leave this part out?

"Are you directing that question to the three month old little baby girl who, I suppose, you agree deserves to have her throat slit....."

There are folks who seem to be missing that part of their soul that allows the kind of empathy that would have obviated your post.

On the other hand, you seem to have mastered that element of objectivity, that I have not...as though, if you were to lose a dearly loved member of your immediate family- heaven forbid- you would immediately recalculate your grocery order to reduce costs.
Bravo.

just recently conservative palerider posted his amusement at the thought of liberals, making the mistake of driving through texas, being murdered by conservatives....

when these cons kill these liberals....

will they use guns or knives?

will they kill whole families?

 

[Foxfyre]

I find this interesting that so many want to talk just about anything except that the fact that it was Palestinian thugs who broke into a private home to kill four innocent people including three little kids.

The closest we get to condemnation of that is "nobody is condoning it."?

Yes the USA sends aid to Israel along with more than 3/4ths of the countries of the world. We send aid to Venezuela for Pete's sake. The top ten recipients of US Aid in 2010 were Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, West Bank & Gaza, Kenya, Mexico, Iraq, and Ethopia. On average 150 countries around the world will receive U.S. aid in any given year.

So what do our friends here focus on? Aid to Israel who happens to be the only real ally we have in that whole group.

If the Palestinians do not hold accountable those who murdered the mother and children, we'll keep sending them a lot of aid just the same, much of which will likely be used to launch attacks on Israel.

And sometimes that becomes a really bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Dot Com]

I find this interesting that so many want to talk just about anything except that the fact that it was Palestinian thugs who broke into a private home to kill four innocent people including three little kids.

The closest we get to condemnation of that is "nobody is condoning it."?

Yes the USA sends aid to Israel along with more than 3/4ths of the countries of the world. We send aid to Venezuela for Pete's sake. The top ten recipients of US Aid in 2010 were Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, West Bank & Gaza, Kenya, Mexico, Iraq, and Ethopia. On average 150 countries around the world will receive U.S. aid in any given year.

So what do our friends here focus on? Aid to Israel who happens to be the only real ally we have in that whole group.

If the Palestinians do not hold accountable those who murdered the mother and children, we'll keep sending them a lot of aid just the same, much of which will likely be used to launch attacks on Israel.

And sometimes that becomes a really bitter pill to swallow.

"private home"? How so if it was built on property they didn't own?

The point I made about aid is that they are THE LARGEST RECIPIENT of U.S. foreign aid, alot of which they use to purchase weaponry . I'm not talking $10 or 20 million here. I'm talking $2 billion/yr. And they wonder why we have had few allies in the M.E.

 

[Jroc]

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into muslim countries over the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into african countries for the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into latin america?

and israel troubles you?

damn, what's wrong with my side of the aisle on this issue?

it's retarded.

They have been the largest recipient of foreign aid. No other country compares. Add to that, they've been caught spying on the U.S. > once:
Israel seeks release of spy in exchange for extending settlement freeze | World news | The Guardian

Israel is seeking the release of an American jailed for life for spying for the Jewish state in return for concessions in the renewed peace process with the Palestinians, including the extension of a partial freeze on the expansion of settlements in the occupied territories.

Thats extortion and they resumed building the illegal settlements too. Now all the conservatives are up in arms against that Army Private. Well? Should the U.S. release him too?

what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?

why shouldn't israel build until they have a peace treaty? who on earth unilaterally agrees to the demands of people who wage war against them?

that's nuts.

as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.

I guess there cannot be one Jew in the so-called "Palestinian" territories right? We have 1.5 million Arabs in Israel proper but not one Jew allowed in any future "Palestine" state. that tells you something doesn’t it. There is no peace, there will be no peace, and I say the more settlements built the better.

 

[Ropey]

They have been the largest recipient of foreign aid. No other country compares. Add to that, they've been caught spying on the U.S. > once:
Israel seeks release of spy in exchange for extending settlement freeze | World news | The Guardian

Thats extortion and they resumed building the illegal settlements too. Now all the conservatives are up in arms against that Army Private. Well? Should the U.S. release him too?

what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?

why shouldn't israel build until they have a peace treaty? who on earth unilaterally agrees to the demands of people who wage war against them?

that's nuts.

as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.

I guess there cannot be one Jew in the so-called "Palestinian" territories right? We have 1.5 million Arabs in Israel proper but not one Jew allowed in any future "Palestine" state. that tells you something doesn’t it. There is no peace, there will be no peace, and I say the more settlements built the better.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY"]Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine [/ame]

They are clear. This is not about Palestine. This is about "Jews" and their religion.

 

[Dot Com]

They have been the largest recipient of foreign aid. No other country compares. Add to that, they've been caught spying on the U.S. > once:
Israel seeks release of spy in exchange for extending settlement freeze | World news | The Guardian

Thats extortion and they resumed building the illegal settlements too. Now all the conservatives are up in arms against that Army Private. Well? Should the U.S. release him too?

what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?

why shouldn't israel build until they have a peace treaty? who on earth unilaterally agrees to the demands of people who wage war against them?

that's nuts.

as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.

I guess there cannot be one Jew in the so-called "Palestinian" territories right? We have 1.5 million Arabs in Israel proper but not one Jew allowed in any future "Palestine" state. that tells you something doesn’t it. There is no peace, there will be no peace, and I say the more settlements built the better.

If there will be no peace, which looks to be the case after 40+ yrs, we need to stop s(p)ending $2 billion annually in U.S. tax payer $ over there.

 

[Ropey]

There is no illegal settlements. That's just a concocted word. Arabian settlements are no different in the area.

If they were truly illegal, then the Arabians would simply take Israel to court and win.

D'oh.

 

[Foxfyre]

I find this interesting that so many want to talk just about anything except that the fact that it was Palestinian thugs who broke into a private home to kill four innocent people including three little kids.

The closest we get to condemnation of that is "nobody is condoning it."?

Yes the USA sends aid to Israel along with more than 3/4ths of the countries of the world. We send aid to Venezuela for Pete's sake. The top ten recipients of US Aid in 2010 were Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, West Bank & Gaza, Kenya, Mexico, Iraq, and Ethopia. On average 150 countries around the world will receive U.S. aid in any given year.

So what do our friends here focus on? Aid to Israel who happens to be the only real ally we have in that whole group.

If the Palestinians do not hold accountable those who murdered the mother and children, we'll keep sending them a lot of aid just the same, much of which will likely be used to launch attacks on Israel.

And sometimes that becomes a really bitter pill to swallow.

"private home"? How so if it was built on property they didn't own?

The point I made about aid is that they are THE LARGEST RECIPIENT of U.S. foreign aid, alot of which they use to purchase weaponry . I'm not talking $10 or 20 million here. I'm talking $2 billion/yr. And they wonder why we have had few allies in the M.E.

And here's one who is far more concerned that the home is built, in his opinion, on 'illegal' land than he is concerned that people would break in and murder a mother and three little kids.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Truly fucked up stuff but not very surprising. The Palestinians are known for this type of ghoulish behavior. They openly celebrated 911 as well. Yet our U.S. Government still gives them $Millions in American Tax Dollars. What a Foreign Policy. It's so sad.

We give the Palestinians millions?

Really,who gets it and for what purpose?

The U.S. Government has been giving $Millions in American Tax Dollars to the Palestinians for many years. All we get in return is them burning American Flags and celebrating 911. What a fucked up Foreign Policy. The American People should have much more say in how their tax dollars are used for "Foreign Aid." The System of handing out the cash is truly disgusting.

That does not answer the questions.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is no way I can understand the nature of the animals that did this. When I find a rabid animal I shoot it. Same rule applies. The Jews has been under constant attack since the establishment of Israel, it has never let up. I also do not understand some of the things that they have done because I have not walked in those shoes. A human being does not murder innocents like this, it is no wonder the cowards hide in the dark. In all the years that Palestine has been on the west bank, there are no hospitals, no jobs, nothing but despair. Their leaders steal their money and incite them to acts like this. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND it.

 

[Dot Com]

There is no illegal settlements. That's just a concocted word. Arabian settlements are no different in the area.

If they were truly illegal, then the Arabians would simply take Israel to court and win.

D'oh.

You're funny The U.S. ALWAYS has sided w/ them no matter what they've done.

BBC News - Israel to restrict white phosphorus use in future wars

 

[Ropey]

There is no illegal settlements. That's just a concocted word. Arabian settlements are no different in the area.

If they were truly illegal, then the Arabians would simply take Israel to court and win.

D'oh.

You're funny The U.S. ALWAYS has sided w/ them no matter what they've done.

BBC News - Israel to restrict white phosphorus use in future wars

They resumed building the illegal settlements too.

You're funny. Where's the international law you stated? The International law that Israel is breaking with illegal settlements? It's surely not White Phosphorous, so whose the silly one?



Rather tangential in discussion aren't you. Try to stay on track. This is why jillian posted the above to you. You're all over the place with non contextual drivel.

as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.

 

[kiwiman127]

Let's put a perspective on this.

Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence

At least 6,430 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis
have been killed since September 29, 2000.

Children Killed
Israeli-124 Palestinian- 1,452

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000

Bringing this up doesn't excuse the killing of this family. But it does show that there is a two-way street in regards to the innocents that are killed. Neither side is innocent of killing innocents.

 

[Jos]

The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law.[39] The Fourth Geneva Convention includes statements such as "the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies".[40]

At present, the predominant view of the international community, as reflected in numerous UN resolutions, regards the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as a violation of international law.[41][42][43] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal[44] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice

International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ropey]

Bringing this up doesn't excuse the killing of this family. But

*****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******

But

But is the great negation in discussion as it seeks to negate the prior statements oh so well.

 

[kiwiman127]

Bringing this up doesn't excuse the killing of this family. But

*****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******

But

But is the great negation in discussion as it seeks to negate the prior statements oh so well.

And me using the word "but" gives people an excuse to be willingly in denial that this is factually a two-way street of senseless killing, right?