How are Californians so stupid? Hundreds missing in wildfires.

[westwall]

California fires: At least 23 dead as hundreds reported missing - CNN

The whole world has been watching these fires for DAYS. How can you not know it's time to GET THE FUCK OUT when you're only miles from the fires. Meanwhile I'm sitting in the heartland and even I know if you're near that shit it's time to go.

I don't mean to seem insensitive but WTF??? These deaths are just mind bogglingly senseless to me.

Have you ever seen a Santa Ana wind driven firestorm? If not, you really don't know how fast they move. Plus, they jump....sometimes miles.

Q Bodey: Do they make fire cuts in the forest in CA?

I find it incredibly hard to believe fire jumps miles. Seriously.

Embers can travel for miles which could be how a fire can 'jump.' The National Forest Service has a 'let it burn' mandate for BLM land and increasingly do not allow forest clean-ups. On my own property I made a firebreak around the perimeter and keep down the fuel.

It is the environmentalists who don't allow forest deadfall cleanups. The Forest Service would love to clear that crap out.

But no blame for the people in Congress that will not expand the Forest Service budget when they spend most of their funds for fighting these fires? And, now, mostly fighting to keep those fires from towns, ranches, and farms.

I blame Congress for most of the ills of this country dude. The Forest Service needs a complete change in how they do business. They have this ridiculous idea that they have to pay for someone to clear up the deadfall. This is ridiculous, they could get companies to PAY them for the right to cut the trees and a condition of that contract would be they have to clear the undergrowth too (it makes sense as it gets cleared up anyway), thus something that is now costing us taxpayers ridiculous amounts of money could be turned into a money making proposition.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Plus, it is not just us that just moved here. We have no clue of secret passable roads. One way out. I have to go down a dirt road because we are at the dead end of it...to ONE of the TWO main roads, and head north. No east. No west. Nothing but forest. And not being familiar...well...I guess we are fucked. But I guess we "should have known and are too stupid to leave".

Well, I hope you don't burn, Gracie. That would be bad to wish on anyone. Evacuate if you can.

 

[Gracie]

Plus, it is not just us that just moved here. We have no clue of secret passable roads. One way out. I have to go down a dirt road because we are at the dead end of it...to ONE of the TWO main roads, and head north. No east. No west. Nothing but forest. And not being familiar...well...I guess we are fucked. But I guess we "should have known and are too stupid to leave".

If that's the case and you know your are locked in, yeah, you should have left.

We did not have to. It was in the lower part of town. We are in the upper. But if we had been told to leave, we would have. Problem is...HOW and WHICH WAY? North obviously, but we would be sitting ducks on that road along with THOUSANDS OF OTHERS in their cars.

Stop judging unless you stand in our shoes!

 

[Harry Dresden]

California fires: At least 23 dead as hundreds reported missing - CNN

The whole world has been watching these fires for DAYS. How can you not know it's time to GET THE FUCK OUT when you're only miles from the fires. Meanwhile I'm sitting in the heartland and even I know if you're near that shit it's time to go.

I don't mean to seem insensitive but WTF??? These deaths are just mind bogglingly senseless to me.

Have you ever seen a Santa Ana wind driven firestorm? If not, you really don't know how fast they move. Plus, they jump....sometimes miles.

yep you guys have no idea what you are saying....i was delivering mail in the one in the Anaheim Hills 10 years ago i think,in the same place this one that is burning now,the SA winds were doing about 40-50 MPH,the fire jumped a pretty wide freeway and was on an APT complex pretty dam quick and started for the neighborhood i was in,uphill,that thing moved 3 miles in less than a half hour....

 

[Gracie]

This is the road for 26K+ people fleeing north. See both sides of that road? Hello? SEE IT???

 

[Eaglewings]

Have you ever seen a Santa Ana wind driven firestorm? If not, you really don't know how fast they move. Plus, they jump....sometimes miles.

Q Bodey: Do they make fire cuts in the forest in CA?

I find it incredibly hard to believe fire jumps miles. Seriously.

Embers can travel for miles which could be how a fire can 'jump.' The National Forest Service has a 'let it burn' mandate for BLM land and increasingly do not allow forest clean-ups. On my own property I made a firebreak around the perimeter and keep down the fuel.

In other words: No firecuts.

You stupid fuck, in other words, you have not brain one. And how to you create fire breaks in areas that are mostly private property? There were many four lane roads these fires have jumped, and those are wider than most fire breaks. Your obvious ignorance and stupidity is profound.

Oh ok, so fire cuts don't mitigate damage? Righhht.

If the section it jumped to was firecut, it would have stopped there. CA don't believe in that.

How many out of control fires have been in the SE, huh?

We got huge pines here that all you have to do is put a lighter on and they go off like a rocket.

I'll never forget the day I cut down a slash pine for an old friend. He had some friend from work visiting.

So my old friend (who I know has burned acres) goes up next to the pile where all the tree with a lighter.

His buddy from work is like "Aw, you can't do nothin' with that". "That ain't gonna burn, it's green."


I'm all: "Don't encourage him."

He flicks lighter one more time and there's 6 yards of burning fire blazing 30 foot high. Almost instantly.

It went out and it all was gone.

His work-buddy is a dumbass.

Where is SE? Don't you get the humidity?


.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Have you ever seen a Santa Ana wind driven firestorm? If not, you really don't know how fast they move. Plus, they jump....sometimes miles.

Q Bodey: Do they make fire cuts in the forest in CA?

I find it incredibly hard to believe fire jumps miles. Seriously.

Embers can travel for miles which could be how a fire can 'jump.' The National Forest Service has a 'let it burn' mandate for BLM land and increasingly do not allow forest clean-ups. On my own property I made a firebreak around the perimeter and keep down the fuel.

It is the environmentalists who don't allow forest deadfall cleanups. The Forest Service would love to clear that crap out.

But no blame for the people in Congress that will not expand the Forest Service budget when they spend most of their funds for fighting these fires? And, now, mostly fighting to keep those fires from towns, ranches, and farms.

I blame Congress for most of the ills of this country dude. The Forest Service needs a complete change in how they do business. They have this ridiculous idea that they have to pay for someone to clear up the deadfall. This is ridiculous, they could get companies to PAY them for the right to cut the trees and a condition of that contract would be they have to clear the undergrowth too (it makes sense as it gets cleared up anyway), thus something that is now costing us taxpayers ridiculous amounts of money could be turned into a money making proposition.

Forestry/wildlife service is all a big scam. They make bookoo bucks for the government. They go in, supposed to clear out and log the pine, they take out out all the old Oak trees along the way.

Conservation my ass. It's all about using taxpayer-funded land to sell to paper mills and make a profit.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I knew it! No fire cuts!

Oh! You can't cut a line in a patch of trees! (Say the tree huggers)

So the whole damn thing burns.

Sad.

I cut 2 tons of tree today. It didn't cry, it thanked me.

Fire breaks do exist, but they are used to delineate corporate owned forest sections in general. The biggest problem is the environmentalists not allowing deadfall to be cleared away. The whole forest now is one giant powder keg just waiting for a spark. It is not the fault of the people who live there, but I do place a great deal of the fault with the environmentalists who through ignorance will cause the forest to be incinerated instead of going through the normal forest floor burns that were part and parcel of forest life for millenia.

"The biggest problem is the environmentalists not allowing deadfall to be cleared away."

So, when I go check the opinions of professionals from the USFS, and the universities in the west, and various scientists..... this is the dominating opinion I will find? I have a feeling they are going to put droughts and climate change above this as bigger problems.

As a person who has had to deal with the assholes for nigh on 30 years now, yeah. It will. I live in the forest and have kept my area clear for decades, along with my neighbors. Lately though the environmentalists threaten to sue you if you make plans to do a cleanup. We had a very bad fire here in 2007 and the severity of the fire was greatly increased thanks to environmentalists making it nearly impossible to clear away deadfall. Even on private property. The article below treats them in a very soft way, and I can tell you that they are lying through their teeth when they claim to not be the reason for the lack of clearance.

LAKE TAHOE / Forest practices blamed for fire get critical eye

Catastrophic Wildfires? Thank the Greenies and Forest Service

Hmm, from what I am seeing, the experts , while they do acknowledge that thinning the forests and cleaning away dead matter would help, that droughts and climate change seem to be bigger factors. That tells me that blaming this all on environmentalists is not a rational, scientific thing to do, but rather a political thing to do.

The droughts are normal. I bet you have never heard that the longest drought in Cali history lasted for over 200 years. Climate change is blamed for everything, and if you are familiary with the old adage if something is blamed for everything, the reality is it is responsible for none of it comes to mind. The normal life cycle of many Cali plants REQUIRES fire. That is how regular fires are in Cali. What is not normal is the environmentalists preventing the deadfall from being cleared away.

THAT is the un normal part of the equation.

That's not what I am hearing from the experts. while the existence of droughts may be normal, the intensity and duration of this latest CA drought is being labeled somewhat out of the ordinary, and the worst in 1200 years. By the way, the people that taught you everything you know about droughts, past and present, are climate scientists. it seems rather odd for you to make arguments based on the knowledge you gained from them, then to try to discredit them in the very next breath. And, by "odd", I mean irrational.



And the experts are also highlighting the role climate change is playing... you'll have to understand that when some stranger on the internet (who has displayed his agenda very clearly in the past) tries to undermine them with anecdotes and sayings from embroidered pillows, it doesn't "move" me. Nothing personal.

 

[miketx]

It is the environmentalists who don't allow forest deadfall cleanups. The Forest Service would love to clear that crap out.

But no blame for the people in Congress that will not expand the Forest Service budget when they spend most of their funds for fighting these fires? And, now, mostly fighting to keep those fires from towns, ranches, and farms.

Well hey, cut out all the 15 foreign languages everything has to be written in, all the 15 gender bathrooms they have to have, all the gay/lesbo shit that has to be done, cut all the tree huggers and all the spotted owl and black and purple otter conservation programs and etc etc and you might not need any more money to DO YOUR JOB!

Fires burning down Northern California- and assholes find time to blame gays and lesbians.

Go figure.

You are bald faced liar. Never said anything like that and it's right there in black and white.

Chock on your own cock asshole.

Fires are burning out of control and you bring nothing but your usual bigotry- fuck off.

Pointing out the fact of excessive government expenditure for PC bullshit is not bigotry it's a fact. It's not every govt agencies job to speak 40 fucking languages, Kow tow to every special interest group and every fucking wacko enviro group and all the goes with it. Trolls like you are why the government is so fucked up to begin with. Just forget all the pc cry baby shit and DO THEIR JOB!

 

[westwall]

It is the environmentalists who don't allow forest deadfall cleanups. The Forest Service would love to clear that crap out.

I knew it! No fire cuts!

Oh! You can't cut a line in a patch of trees! (Say the tree huggers)

So the whole damn thing burns.

Sad.

I cut 2 tons of tree today. It didn't cry, it thanked me.

Fire breaks do exist, but they are used to delineate corporate owned forest sections in general. The biggest problem is the environmentalists not allowing deadfall to be cleared away. The whole forest now is one giant powder keg just waiting for a spark. It is not the fault of the people who live there, but I do place a great deal of the fault with the environmentalists who through ignorance will cause the forest to be incinerated instead of going through the normal forest floor burns that were part and parcel of forest life for millenia.

The Forest Service makes fire breaks in National forests- as does the BLM.

Yes. But not many of them. Nor does it truly matter. Fire breaks wouldn't have any measurable effect with the fires we get these days. There is simply too much fuel load on the ground.

Absolutely depends on the terrain and the weather.

There is too much fuel load on the ground- which is why the BLM and Forest Service have a policy of letting fires burn if they don't threaten structures- to get rid of the fuel load.

That changed a policy of years of trying to knock down every fire as quickly as possible which resulted in the huge build up of the undergrowth.

Yeah, I know. I have National Forest out my back door. I deal with them all of the time.

 

[Eaglewings]

This is the road for 26K+ people fleeing north. See both sides of that road? Hello? SEE IT???

The link doesn't open Gracie..But I can imagine how horrible it is..

.

 

[Gracie]

Two Helpless Horses Are Trapped By A Raging Wildfire Until This Truck Driver Attempts A Miracle

 

[miketx]

Plus, it is not just us that just moved here. We have no clue of secret passable roads. One way out. I have to go down a dirt road because we are at the dead end of it...to ONE of the TWO main roads, and head north. No east. No west. Nothing but forest. And not being familiar...well...I guess we are fucked. But I guess we "should have known and are too stupid to leave".

If that's the case and you know your are locked in, yeah, you should have left.

We did not have to. It was in the lower part of town. We are in the upper. But if we had been told to leave, we would have. Problem is...HOW and WHICH WAY? North obviously, but we would be sitting ducks on that road along with THOUSANDS OF OTHERS in their cars.

Stop judging unless you stand in our shoes!

Ok, I understand, but if it's the way you say, you should have got out sooner, don't you think? You know that nature is unpredictable and the government cannot take care of us all, right? You have to do something to safeguard things, right?

 

[Harry Dresden]

California fires: At least 23 dead as hundreds reported missing - CNN

The whole world has been watching these fires for DAYS. How can you not know it's time to GET THE FUCK OUT when you're only miles from the fires. Meanwhile I'm sitting in the heartland and even I know if you're near that shit it's time to go.

I don't mean to seem insensitive but WTF??? These deaths are just mind bogglingly senseless to me.

One would think, but with winds and certain terrains some fires would outrun a NASCAR. They can be burning merrily along one direction and switch on a dime. Embers can travel and settle miles away to start a fire no one is even aware of immediately.
Our last year in northern Cali we had a fire about ten miles out, heading away from us. I plopped my 250 pounds of dogs, our bug out bag and my brother in my truck and we were off. But getting in the truck we could see the flames just down our street, engulfing the tall pines. It had went into a dry creek bed that accelerated it to frightening speeds.

Too many underestimate fire and don't understand how it works.

I would think Californians would have a unique insight into the danger wildfires represent just as people in tornadoe alley do with tornadoes.

You'd think. But though it may seem like it has all been on fire st one time or another, millions haven't experienced fire like this and don't have a clue. If I hadn't seen it myself, I doubt I'd believe how quick and quirky they are.

Now we're in MO so we're working on a tornado shelter. Wherever we live, there's always a bug out back for emergencies

No basement?

in California?....i have never seen one out here....

 

[westwall]

Fire breaks do exist, but they are used to delineate corporate owned forest sections in general. The biggest problem is the environmentalists not allowing deadfall to be cleared away. The whole forest now is one giant powder keg just waiting for a spark. It is not the fault of the people who live there, but I do place a great deal of the fault with the environmentalists who through ignorance will cause the forest to be incinerated instead of going through the normal forest floor burns that were part and parcel of forest life for millenia.

"The biggest problem is the environmentalists not allowing deadfall to be cleared away."

So, when I go check the opinions of professionals from the USFS, and the universities in the west, and various scientists..... this is the dominating opinion I will find? I have a feeling they are going to put droughts and climate change above this as bigger problems.

As a person who has had to deal with the assholes for nigh on 30 years now, yeah. It will. I live in the forest and have kept my area clear for decades, along with my neighbors. Lately though the environmentalists threaten to sue you if you make plans to do a cleanup. We had a very bad fire here in 2007 and the severity of the fire was greatly increased thanks to environmentalists making it nearly impossible to clear away deadfall. Even on private property. The article below treats them in a very soft way, and I can tell you that they are lying through their teeth when they claim to not be the reason for the lack of clearance.

LAKE TAHOE / Forest practices blamed for fire get critical eye

Catastrophic Wildfires? Thank the Greenies and Forest Service

Hmm, from what I am seeing, the experts , while they do acknowledge that thinning the forests and cleaning away dead matter would help, that droughts and climate change seem to be bigger factors. That tells me that blaming this all on environmentalists is not a rational, scientific thing to do, but rather a political thing to do.

The droughts are normal. I bet you have never heard that the longest drought in Cali history lasted for over 200 years. Climate change is blamed for everything, and if you are familiary with the old adage if something is blamed for everything, the reality is it is responsible for none of it comes to mind. The normal life cycle of many Cali plants REQUIRES fire. That is how regular fires are in Cali. What is not normal is the environmentalists preventing the deadfall from being cleared away.

THAT is the un normal part of the equation.

That's not what I am hearing from the experts. while the existence of droughts may be normal, the intensity and duration of this latest CA drought is being labeled somewhat out of the ordinary, and the worst in 1200 years. By the way, the people that taught you everything you know about droughts, past and present, are climate scientists. it seems rather odd for you to make arguments based on the knowledge you gained from them, then to try to discredit them in the very next breath. And, by "odd", I mean utterly irrational.



And the experts are also highlighting the role climate change is playing... you'll have to understand that when some stranger on the internet (who has displayed his agenda very clearly in the past) tries to undermine them with anecdotes and sayings from embroidered pillows, it doesn't "move" me. Nothing personal.

The claim that it is the worst in 1200 years is laughable so I will classify the rest of what your "experts" claim the same way.


"California’s current drought is being billed as the driest period in the state’s recorded rainfall history. But scientists who study the West’s long-term climate patterns say the state has been parched for much longer stretches before that 163-year historical period began.

And they worry that the “megadroughts” typical of California’s earlier history could come again.

Through studies of tree rings, sediment and other natural evidence, researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years — compared to the mere three-year duration of the current dry spell. The two most severe megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that one, another that stretched at least 180 years.

“We continue to run California as if the longest drought we are ever going to encounter is about seven years,” said Scott Stine, a professor of geography and environmental studies at Cal State East Bay. “We’re living in a dream world.”

California in 2013 received less rain than in any year since it became a state in 1850. And at least one Bay Area scientist says that based on tree ring data, the current rainfall season is on pace to be the driest since 1580 — more than 150 years before George Washington was born. The question is: How much longer will it last?"




California drought: Past dry periods have lasted more than 200 years, scientists say – The Mercury News

 

[Marion Morrison]

All crackers I know have firecuts on their property. It's just common sense.

well, I guess that settles it! Fire all the experts and hire you! think of the budget savings!!!

Appears it's way too late for CA. Pray for rain.

 

[Gracie]

I knew it! No fire cuts!

Oh! You can't cut a line in a patch of trees! (Say the tree huggers)

So the whole damn thing burns.

Sad.

I cut 2 tons of tree today. It didn't cry, it thanked me.

Fire breaks do exist, but they are used to delineate corporate owned forest sections in general. The biggest problem is the environmentalists not allowing deadfall to be cleared away. The whole forest now is one giant powder keg just waiting for a spark. It is not the fault of the people who live there, but I do place a great deal of the fault with the environmentalists who through ignorance will cause the forest to be incinerated instead of going through the normal forest floor burns that were part and parcel of forest life for millenia.

The Forest Service makes fire breaks in National forests- as does the BLM.

Yes. But not many of them. Nor does it truly matter. Fire breaks wouldn't have any measurable effect with the fires we get these days. There is simply too much fuel load on the ground.

Absolutely depends on the terrain and the weather.

There is too much fuel load on the ground- which is why the BLM and Forest Service have a policy of letting fires burn if they don't threaten structures- to get rid of the fuel load.

That changed a policy of years of trying to knock down every fire as quickly as possible which resulted in the huge build up of the undergrowth.

Yeah, I know. I have National Forest out my back door. I deal with them all of the time.

Where you live looks like where I live since you are just over the hill a tad. These folks just don't have a clue that when we say FOREST..we mean FOREST.

 

[leftwinger]

Each $500K -$1mil modest homes pay ~$10K-$125K annual property tax. Winds were known. Conditions were also known. Now they hear "nothing we can do, sorry". No prisoners or illegals burned up. They woud be moved out or otherwise alerted. Always re-active with CA leaders. Never pro-active. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Sanctuary state, blame Trump. Yes at least 2 fires were arson, probably many others. Use the amber alert to send text? Landlines? Who's stationed out to do watching?

 

[Marion Morrison]

Where there's a National Forest, there is a responsibility to make firecuts. They do it in the National Forest here.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"The biggest problem is the environmentalists not allowing deadfall to be cleared away."

So, when I go check the opinions of professionals from the USFS, and the universities in the west, and various scientists..... this is the dominating opinion I will find? I have a feeling they are going to put droughts and climate change above this as bigger problems.

As a person who has had to deal with the assholes for nigh on 30 years now, yeah. It will. I live in the forest and have kept my area clear for decades, along with my neighbors. Lately though the environmentalists threaten to sue you if you make plans to do a cleanup. We had a very bad fire here in 2007 and the severity of the fire was greatly increased thanks to environmentalists making it nearly impossible to clear away deadfall. Even on private property. The article below treats them in a very soft way, and I can tell you that they are lying through their teeth when they claim to not be the reason for the lack of clearance.

LAKE TAHOE / Forest practices blamed for fire get critical eye

Catastrophic Wildfires? Thank the Greenies and Forest Service

Hmm, from what I am seeing, the experts , while they do acknowledge that thinning the forests and cleaning away dead matter would help, that droughts and climate change seem to be bigger factors. That tells me that blaming this all on environmentalists is not a rational, scientific thing to do, but rather a political thing to do.

The droughts are normal. I bet you have never heard that the longest drought in Cali history lasted for over 200 years. Climate change is blamed for everything, and if you are familiary with the old adage if something is blamed for everything, the reality is it is responsible for none of it comes to mind. The normal life cycle of many Cali plants REQUIRES fire. That is how regular fires are in Cali. What is not normal is the environmentalists preventing the deadfall from being cleared away.

THAT is the un normal part of the equation.

That's not what I am hearing from the experts. while the existence of droughts may be normal, the intensity and duration of this latest CA drought is being labeled somewhat out of the ordinary, and the worst in 1200 years. By the way, the people that taught you everything you know about droughts, past and present, are climate scientists. it seems rather odd for you to make arguments based on the knowledge you gained from them, then to try to discredit them in the very next breath. And, by "odd", I mean utterly irrational.



And the experts are also highlighting the role climate change is playing... you'll have to understand that when some stranger on the internet (who has displayed his agenda very clearly in the past) tries to undermine them with anecdotes and sayings from embroidered pillows, it doesn't "move" me. Nothing personal.

The claim that it is the worst in 1200 years is laughable so I will classify the rest of what your "experts" claim the same way.


"California’s current drought is being billed as the driest period in the state’s recorded rainfall history. But scientists who study the West’s long-term climate patterns say the state has been parched for much longer stretches before that 163-year historical period began.

And they worry that the “megadroughts” typical of California’s earlier history could come again.

Through studies of tree rings, sediment and other natural evidence, researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years — compared to the mere three-year duration of the current dry spell. The two most severe megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that one, another that stretched at least 180 years.

“We continue to run California as if the longest drought we are ever going to encounter is about seven years,” said Scott Stine, a professor of geography and environmental studies at Cal State East Bay. “We’re living in a dream world.”

California in 2013 received less rain than in any year since it became a state in 1850. And at least one Bay Area scientist says that based on tree ring data, the current rainfall season is on pace to be the driest since 1580 — more than 150 years before George Washington was born. The question is: How much longer will it last?"




California drought: Past dry periods have lasted more than 200 years, scientists say – The Mercury News

"The claim that it is the worst in 1200 years is laughable so I will classify the rest of what your "experts" claim the same way."

Of course you will, because you always look for a reason to dismiss any disagreement "wholesale".... as if one expert opinion i presented has any bearing on any other. How irrational of you.

I look forward to your published science which shows these scientists to be incorrect. But, i won't hold my breath. In fact, none of your opinions on any of this seem to be "filtering down" (as you seem to see it, with your slight delusions of grandeur) to the scientific community at all. I guess, in the end, scientists don't have much use for your politics and superstitions.

i looked for your research .... oops, only found published research by actual scientists: How unusual is the 2012–2014 California drought?