How About America Standing Up To The Bully Putin On Ukraine!

JimofPennsylvan

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Jun 6, 2007
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What has transpired with America's weak response to Vladimir Putin's sending Russian military forces into Crimea makes one wonder if the current generation of Americans is not of the same caliber in terms of character compared to prior generations! I know that troops on the ground in the Ukraine to repel a Russian military invasion is not an option because America doesn't have that large of an army a deployment of at least two to three hundred thousand troops to the Ukraine would be needed in order to be confident of victory and America just doesn't have it and America's leaders cannot morally deploy American soldiers in a ground war without confidence of success. But America should be standing up for good here commensurate with its ability and the stakes and it isn't!

At this point in the Ukrainian conflict America should not engage the use of its air force to stop Russia's wrongful military intervention; Russia was totally wrong in going into the Crimea region and orchestrating a likely Crimea secession from Ukraine because this is a violation of Ukraine's sovereignty. But that being said historically the Crimea was not part of the Ukraine it was a forced union that took place in 1954 the majority of the population of Crimea is ethnic Russian and even without this Russian invasion it was almost a certainty that some time in the future there would be a popular referendum on whether or not the Crimea should secede from the Ukraine and at this point in time a prudent person would conclude that it would have been more likely than not to succeed! It is really wrong that through Russia's manipulation there is going to be a popular referendum in Crimea on this issue this month that is not sufficient time to have a fair referendum. This referendum should be set for five years out from today the country of Ukraine is set to have presidential elections this year, there very well may be a centrist candidate elected the parliament elected may be moderate and this time frame would give the Ukrainian government leaders time to stabilize the Ukrainian economy and put it on an good upward trajectory. This time frame would give the Crimean population time to deliberate and make a well thought out decision because joining Russia is not a promising option Russia is corrupt and hopelessly so and it is a police state some people that oppose political authorities in Russia are arrested put in jail and killed in jail. Further it is not a great idea for Crimea to just secede from the Ukraine and be an independent state because that will make them susceptible to Putin and his likely corrupt successors covertly controlling Crimea making it a corrupt police state; if Ukraine gets passed this constitutional crisis and becomes an inclusive, democratic, human rights respecting and relatively prosperous country which is likely the wiser course for the Crimean population would be to stay part of the Ukraine!

What I do think that President Barack Obama should have said in his initial conversation with Putin last weeken and members of Congress across the political spectrum should be saying is that if Russian troops enter into eastern Ukraine or any portion of the continuous European continent area of Ukraine America will unleash the full force of its air force using conventional weapons against those Russian troops on Ukrainian soil. The reasons justifying this are: first the world is done with sovereign countries and their people in Europe being taken over or subjugated by another country, the world experienced a century of this in the 20th century and fought two world wars and experienced a "Cold War" over it no more the costs are too great for the world. Secondly, Ukraine helped America out during the Iraq War by sending troops to that war internationally America received a lot of criticism for that war because it was not believed America had justification for it and countries like Ukraine stepping up and sending troops helped save American soldiers lives because it helped give the Iraq mission credibility and legitimacy in and outside Iraq, we need to pay this debt back to the Ukrainian people and such military help would suffice! Thirdly, through Nato treaties which the vast majority of European countries are a member of fellow Nato countries, America being one, are legally obligated to militarily stop foreign invasions; the fact that the Ukraine isn't a member of Nato yet is too a large degree a technicality, a technicality because all it involves is a matter of time there has not been enough time available to complete the processing! The peoples of Nato countries want the Ukraine to join Nato the Ukrainian people want their country to join Nato and the Ukraine has a lot to offer Nato they have the potential to be a prosperous nation at minimum through agricultural production and they are a people that value human rights and they have a strong military! The principles of Nato should apply to the Ukraine the principle of no more empire building in Europe no more Nazi empires no more Soviet Union empires not even little Vladimir Putin empires!

I ask the American people to think what great presidents like President John F. Kennedy or President Ronald Reagan would do right now if they were currently in the White House I believe they would have said to Vladimir Putin in this initial conversation in no uncertain terms is he to send Russian troops into eastern or the continuous European continent portion of Ukraine or America will bomb the hell out of Russian troops in the Ukraine and a lot of Russian soldiers will lose their life in this process! and these Presidents would have lead the American people to widespread support this policy. This Whitehouse's response is weak locating sending six F15 planes to Lithuania and having another dozen planes doing a training mission in Poland this doesn't provide the called for deterrent needed for a person like Vladimir Putin. The Whitehouse should be negotiating with Nato countries in that regions seeking permission to base a hundred plus planes in their countries along with stockpiles of bombs and bullets for these planes. If Russia sends military forces into eastern Ukraine America should be prepared to blanket Ukrainian skies with U.S. fighter jets to protect Ukrainian ground troops from Russian planes and helicopter and U.S. bombers to destroy Russian tank columns and supply lines in the Ukraine, America should have enough assets in the area so as to be prepared to do a 1990's Kosovo war campaign against Russian ground troops and fight off the Russian air force on Ukraine soil!

A lot of critics have said the U.S. did not militarily help Georgia when the Russian military invaded parts of Georgia during the Bush administration so why should this Ukraine conflict be any different. One, there was no time Russian forces took these areas largely in a day the area of ground taken was much less than what Putin needs to take in the Ukraine. Two, at the time the Georgian military was no match for the Russian army who would the U.S. air force have helped the Georgian ground forces stood no chance against the Russian ground forces. This Ukrainian conflict is different many experts believe the Ukrainian army and militias the Ukranian people would be able to muster would be a formidable challenge for the Russian army. If the U.S. could largely take out the Russian air force from the equation the Ukrainian people would have a good chance of denying the Russian army victory in an invasion of Ukraine.
 
Easy to advocate war and conflict when you're not gonna be on the frontline. Imbeciles like you making statements so casually like "US could take out the Russian air force..." obviously never served in the military and are just one of many gutless cowards hurling war and violence around like some videogame. When you've seen and smelled real death you better appreciate the realities of what you're proposing. Until you've held someone as died in pain and suffering

Shut that silly little fucking hole under your nose.
 
None of our business. The only time it should be our business is if Putin starts eyeballing the USA. THEN it will be.
 
None of our business UNTIL people begin dying as war breaks out. Germany was 'none of our business' either, but getting into WWII was moral to do so. Ukraine and Crimea thus far isn't a war or even Russians killing anybody. Only deaths so far were in Ukraine from their uprising, but that wasn't a Russian military attack the rest of the world might opt to meddle in. Until/Unless Russia does start levelling towns, no action is justifiable. Even the economic sanctions are dubiously justified. May not love the idea of a reemergent Soviet Union, but if they can achieve that peacefully it's not our business. Not like the Russians are rolling into non-Russian areas, these are former Soviet countries. If their people as a majority wanna rejoin a Soviet system that's their decision.
 
I'm with you friend...remember Putin said that the dissolution of the Soviet Union was "the greatest disaster of the 20th century"....He is clearly attempting hegemony leading to the re-establishment of a similar totalitarian State....First Ukraine; then Moldova, Latvia, Estonia...Where will it end?


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Oh shut up. Crimea is 60% ethnically Russian for starters. Fuck I hate stupid but here I am freaking witnessing it.There is no invasion. This is bullshit.

The new coup regime in Kiev want to basically off the Crimeans, first passage bill was to outlaw the Russian language aka Crimeans are toast.

I'd be running to Putin to.
 
Stand up to him? The Right is in love with him!

Oh fuck yourself. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Come on dear heart don't slag this way.

Oh and btw the new crew in Kiev want to kill anyone from the LGBT movement. Better yet no abortions ever. You really better read their party policies and go HOLY SHIT WHY ARE WE BACKING THESE GUYS?
 
Sad isn't it...that Right wing Americans would praise a Hegemon like Putin while denigrating their own prez...Wonder how they would enjoy living in a repressive totalitarian regime in which their rights disappear and possessions evaporate...and go to the STATE...and even a mild criticism of someone like Putin would land them in prison, Siberia or worse.,.


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Sad isn't it...that Right wing Americans would praise a Hegemon like Putin while denigrating their own prez...Wonder how they would enjoy living in a repressive totalitarian regime in which their rights disappear and possessions evaporate...and go to the STATE...and even a mild criticism of someone like Putin would land them in prison, Siberia or worse.,.


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The left wingers are killing me more. I find it unreal.
 
Sad isn't it...that Right wing Americans would praise a Hegemon like Putin while denigrating their own prez...Wonder how they would enjoy living in a repressive totalitarian regime in which their rights disappear and possessions evaporate...and go to the STATE...and even a mild criticism of someone like Putin would land them in prison, Siberia or worse.,.


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They're traitors. All show and no go. Just a lot of hot air.

I wish they'd leave. Let them go hump Putin's leg, up close and personal. They'd be crying and begging for the US in 2 seconds flat.

And, you can bet that all those who are itching for another idiotic, expensive and deadly war would be staying home, next to their fire. Cowards, every one of them.
 
Sad isn't it...that Right wing Americans would praise a Hegemon like Putin while denigrating their own prez...Wonder how they would enjoy living in a repressive totalitarian regime in which their rights disappear and possessions evaporate...and go to the STATE...and even a mild criticism of someone like Putin would land them in prison, Siberia or worse.,.


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The left wingers are killing me more. I find it unreal.

Try looking at it clean and sober.
 
What I do think that President Barack Obama should have said in his initial conversation with Putin last weeken and members of Congress across the political spectrum should be saying is that if Russian troops enter into eastern Ukraine or any portion of the continuous European continent area of Ukraine America will unleash the full force of its air force using conventional weapons against those Russian troops on Ukrainian soil.

Do you not think for one moment that the Russians do not have an air force?? Anti-air defenses? The Russians have a numerical superiority to our conventional weapons that are available for a first strike.... These things take time, this is not a viddy game....
 
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Lol Luddy...But seriously; although I certainly do not advocate WW III (east vs.west) and any military strikes against Russia...We need to do what we can to stem the creeping hegemony of Putin and the snuffing out of the nascent Democratic government effort in the Ukraine..Ukrainians have the right to join the EU and look to the West for their destiny...AND IT WILL AFFECT US if Putin manages to take over that and other eastern european nations...and reconstitute the Soviet Union...on steroids w China involved.


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Easy to advocate war and conflict when you're not gonna be on the frontline. Imbeciles like you making statements so casually like "US could take out the Russian air force..." obviously never served in the military and are just one of many gutless cowards hurling war and violence around like some videogame. When you've seen and smelled real death you better appreciate the realities of what you're proposing. Until you've held someone as died in pain and suffering

Shut that silly little fucking hole under your nose.

:clap2: :clap2:
 
Who sez American lives have to be given up...like the thousands by W in Iraq?


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