House to pass bill with tax on Millionaires and Billionaires

[Bern80]

Japan is 13 trillion in debt, while having the economy three times smaller than the US and a shrinking population. Still, it borrows at lower rate than the US.

If it is any indication, we can easily handle 40 trillion in debt.

Notice that is not a qualitative statement in regards to the actual health of their economy? Read and learn:

Japan's Economic Woes Offer Lessons To U.S. | KCUR

First, the government does not spend twice its revenue. Trillion+ dollar deficits started with recession of 2008, but they are coming down as the economy recovers. As for the total debt, see above.

No not that much. More like 25% more. And no the government can not raise revenue on a whim. Not without having a public mutiny. Or perhaps you'll say public bonds. If it were that simple, why haven't they done it?

 

[ilia25]

Japan is 13 trillion in debt, while having the economy three times smaller than the US and a shrinking population. Still, it borrows at lower rate than the US.

If it is any indication, we can easily handle 40 trillion in debt.

Notice that is not a qualitative statement in regards to the actual health of their economy? Read and learn:

Japan's Economic Woes Offer Lessons To U.S. | KCUR

That WAS my point -- if Japan can easily handle the debt twice as big as ours despite its lackluster economy, then we can too.

And no, Japan economy troubles are not because of the large government debt, it's the other way around.

First, the government does not spend twice its revenue. Trillion+ dollar deficits started with recession of 2008, but they are coming down as the economy recovers. As for the total debt, see above.

No not that much. More like 25% more.

Come again?

And no the government can not raise revenue on a whim. Not without having a public mutiny. Or perhaps you'll say public bonds. If it were that simple, why haven't they done it?

There will be no public mutiny if we tax the rich at the level they were taxed in 70s (which is less than they were paying in 50s).

And they have not done because of the right-wing propaganda about taxes destroying the economy (they don't, not even the 90+% marginal rates we had in 50s).

 

[hazlnut]

Time to lock this thread up.

Big time GOP FAIL.

An conservative OP-ed said they are sending a message to America that they are incapable of governing.

 

[Bern80]

That WAS my point -- if Japan can easily handle the debt twice as big as ours despite its lackluster economy, then we can too.

And no, Japan economy troubles are not because of the large government debt, it's the other way around.

That's a convenient argument. Any actual evidence for it? The fact that they have 40 trillion in debt, by the very fact that it exists at all, means no, they are not handling their debt. Stop deluding yourself. You pretend government is somehow immune to the issues that would face a family or business in the same scenario, but can't adequately explain why. If debt is such a none issue why even bother trying to maintain a budget? Why not just let government spend as it goes on whatever it feels like if how much they spend doesn't really matter? It's like you don't even understand the concept of owing someone. Do you understand that at this point we aren't paying back anyone what we owe? We're not even making a dent on the interest on the debt.

Come again?

Correcting myself. We don't spend twice what we take in. According to 2011 tax date the fed collected 2.3 trillion dollars and a deficit of 1.3 trillion. That's more like 36% more, but you get the picture.

Come again?

There will be no public mutiny if we tax the rich at the level they were taxed in 70s (which is less than they were paying in 50s).

And they have not done because of the right-wing propaganda about taxes destroying the economy (they don't, not even the 90+% marginal rates we had in 50s).[/QUOTE]

If the debt doesn't matter there shouldn't be any reason to raise taxes now should there?

 

[ilia25]

That WAS my point -- if Japan can easily handle the debt twice as big as ours despite its lackluster economy, then we can too.

And no, Japan economy troubles are not because of the large government debt, it's the other way around.

That's a convenient argument. Any actual evidence for it?

Do you know what happened to the US deficit after the recession of 2008 hit? Just because this is a "convenient" argument it does not make it false.

You pretend government is somehow immune to the issues that would face a family or business in the same scenario, but can't adequately explain why.

I can. A country that borrows in a currency it can print in any quantities cannot possibly default on its debt. Printing too much money can cause inflation, but not when the short term interest are set close to zero. Google "liquidity trap", if you really are interested in how these things work.

If debt is such a none issue

I never said that we should never worry about debt. But right now we should stimulate the economy by increasing the government spending on infrastructure or helping states to hire back the teachers. Because we can afford to borrow many trillions more -- but we cannot afford to live the economy depressed for years to come. Particularly because the depressed economy means huge deficits anyway.

Do you understand that at this point we aren't paying back anyone what we owe? We're not even making a dent on the interest on the debt.

I don't think you understand how this system works.

We are paying everyone we owe to when it is due, including the interest -- that is the point. We do it by borrowing ever more -- but guess what, this is what we've been doing since this country was founded. Our debt was growing exponentially for past 200 years, and the world did not come to an end.

Correcting myself. We don't spend twice what we take in. According to 2011 tax date the fed collected 2.3 trillion dollars and a deficit of 1.3 trillion. That's more like 36% more, but you get the picture.

And in 2012 we have borrowed about 300 billion less than in 2011. See the trend?