Honduras did not have a Coup.

[editec]

I don't think there's a MSM conspiracy.

I just think the MSM would rather pander to hollywood gossip fans than report the news we actually need.

Apparently most of us missed this backstory about Honduras.

But few of us missed the minuetia of the Jackson story even if we didn't want to know it.

That is, I think, what we are saying.

Not a conspiracy but a failing of the MSM.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I don't think there's a MSM conspiracy.

I just think the MSM would rather pander to hollywood gossip fans than report the news we actually need.

Apparently most of us missed this backstory about Honduras.

But few of us missed the minuetia of the Jackson story even if we didn't want to know it.

That is, I think, what we are saying.

Not a conspiracy but a failing of the MSM.

I don't know even about a failing. The story, the whole story, was reported by just about every news outlet I can find. As I posted earlier, there was even coverage of the situation the day before the coup, with complete details of the nastiness between the President and the rest of the government.

I think we have some people skimming headlines and stories and then adopting a stance before even taking the least of measures to be informed.

 

[Tuatara]

Some important details are being left out.


First of all the referendum was not about "term limits". The opposition stated it was and Zelaya stated it wasn't. The actual question in the referendum was whether on not "to hold a National Constituent Assembly to draft a new constitution."

Now the illegal matter comes from this:

On June 23, 2009 the National Congress passed a law forbidding holding referenda and plebiscites less than 180 days before the next general election; as the next elections are set for 29 November 2009. Since this bill was passed after the referendum was scheduled, Zelaya rejected its applicability to this case.

The referendum was set up for a certain date and congress passed a law to not allow this referendum from happening. Zelaya rejected it. As for changing the Honduras Constitution, it is allowed by law except for certain core articles.


As for the way Zelaya was removed even the military's chief lawyer (of Honduras), Colonel Herberth Bayardo Inestroza, stated, "In the moment that we took him out of the country, in the way that he was taken out, there is a crime."
In addition, Deputy Attorney General Roy David Urtecho "has begun an investigation into why Zelaya was removed from Honduras by force instead of being taken to court"


In addition the ambassadors of Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua were taken into custody and assaulted by the military and transported to the airport.
Also, allies of Zelaya, among them several government officials, have been taken into custody by the military.


It is a coup.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Some important details are being left out.


First of all the referendum was not about "term limits". The opposition stated it was and Zelaya stated it wasn't. The actual question in the referendum was whether on not "to hold a National Constituent Assembly to draft a new constitution."

Now the illegal matter comes from this:

On June 23, 2009 the National Congress passed a law forbidding holding referenda and plebiscites less than 180 days before the next general election; as the next elections are set for 29 November 2009. Since this bill was passed after the referendum was scheduled, Zelaya rejected its applicability to this case.

The referendum was set up for a certain date and congress passed a law to not allow this referendum from happening. Zelaya rejected it. As for changing the Honduras Constitution, it is allowed by law except for certain core articles.


As for the way Zelaya was removed even the military's chief lawyer (of Honduras), Colonel Herberth Bayardo Inestroza, stated, "In the moment that we took him out of the country, in the way that he was taken out, there is a crime."
In addition, Deputy Attorney General Roy David Urtecho "has begun an investigation into why Zelaya was removed from Honduras by force instead of being taken to court"


In addition the ambassadors of Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua were taken into custody and assaulted by the military and transported to the airport.
Also, allies of Zelaya, among them several government officials, have been taken into custody by the military.


It is a coup.

I'd say it was a coup. A pretty mild one.

I had said earlier that I really couldn't say one way or the other about who was right. If the referendum was set, then they passed a law to try and stop it, that sounds shaky. In any event, it looks like the courts, the congress and the military stacked up against the guy. Hard to argue with that. In fact, it's going to be hard for him to argue at all, considering he has been expelled from the country. Guess they were tired of arguing.

 

[Tuatara]

I'd say it was a coup. A pretty mild one.

I had said earlier that I really couldn't say one way or the other about who was right. If the referendum was set, then they passed a law to try and stop it, that sounds shaky. In any event, it looks like the courts, the congress and the military stacked up against the guy. Hard to argue with that. In fact, it's going to be hard for him to argue at all, considering he has been expelled from the country. Guess they were tired of arguing.

I think both sides are wrong. From a democratic view what Zelaya did was right. Allowing the people to decide if they want changes to their constitution. From the point of the view of Honduras's Law, what he did was wrong. It also states in Honduras's Constitution in Article 102 "that no Honduran can be expatriated or handed over to a foreign State."


With what is known now, both sides are wrong

 

[Tech_Esq]

I'd say it was a coup. A pretty mild one.

I had said earlier that I really couldn't say one way or the other about who was right. If the referendum was set, then they passed a law to try and stop it, that sounds shaky. In any event, it looks like the courts, the congress and the military stacked up against the guy. Hard to argue with that. In fact, it's going to be hard for him to argue at all, considering he has been expelled from the country. Guess they were tired of arguing.

I think both sides are wrong. From a democratic view what Zelaya did was right. Allowing the people to decide if they want changes to their constitution. From the point of the view of Honduras's Law, what he did was wrong. It also states in Honduras's Constitution in Article 102 "that no Honduran can be expatriated or handed over to a foreign State."


With what is known now, both sides are wrong

I believe the government's (Honduran) position is that Zeyala can submit himself without fanfare into custody and they will take him now. Then he can stand trial for the crimes he is charged with.

The question is where there is to be rule of law in Honduras. Zeyala would not have it, the people in charge now would. Zeyala wants to be above the law.

My opinion is that in a contest between "democracy" and actual "rule of law," rule of law should win.

 

[Tuatara]

I believe the government's (Honduran) position is that Zeyala can submit himself without fanfare into custody and they will take him now. Then he can stand trial for the crimes he is charged with.

The question is where there is to be rule of law in Honduras. Zeyala would not have it, the people in charge now would. Zeyala wants to be above the law.

My opinion is that in a contest between "democracy" and actual "rule of law," rule of law should win.

But the new Government is also not following any rule of Law as I pointed out already. Also Zelaya tried to land in Honduras but the military clogged up the airport. If by the rule of Law was correct then Zelaya would be simply charged when he landed but they won't even let him back in.

I also read that the Coup was planned months before which means this has nothing to do with the referendum or any Rule Of Law. Not one single nation recognizes the new Government of Honduras although Micheletti is claiming Israel does. (Surprise surprise).


I'm willing to bet there will be war in Honduras in less than one week.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

In fact the Supreme Court of Honduras with the consent of the Congress ordered the military to seize the former President and escort him out of the Country. Why? Because he was rabble rousing and tried to illegally change the Constitution of the Country.

Honduras rejects OAS appeal to restore president - Yahoo! News

I wonder why NONE of this was reported before. A Coup is when the Military seizes power , they never seized power, they acted under the direct orders of the Supreme Court and the Congress of Honduras. The Military was never in power. Congress replaced the President at the same time he was ousted by the COURTS and the CONGRESS.

"Insulza asked Honduras to reinstate Zelaya, but the president of the court categorically answered that there is an arrest warrant for him," said court spokesman Danilo Izaguirre. "Now the OAS has to decide what it will do."

Micheletti's supporters say the army was justified in ousting Zelaya — on orders of Congress and the Supreme Court — because he had called a referendum which they claim he intended to use to extend his rule. Zelaya denies that and has said he will no longer press for constitutional changes.

This was actually reported the day the supposed "coup" took place. Why Obama along with the MSM chose to side with Chavez is anybody's guess.

Well I guess, its the whole ideological kinship thing... 'Birds of a Marxist Feather...'

 

[Sweet Willy]

So a good friend of mine is the Guatemalan Counsel General in my state and he operates a charity clinic in Honduras. He came by today with his fiance, Silva, who is a Honduran national. Very interesting conversation.

The short story: The Honduran president is an idiot and good riddance.

 

[DiveCon]

So a good friend of mine is the Guatemalan Counsel General in my state and he operates a charity clinic in Honduras. He came by today with his fiance, Silva, who is a Honduran national. Very interesting conversation.

The short story: The Honduran president is an idiot and good riddance.

so, you agree that Obama is wrong to insist that guy be placed back in power?

 

[Sweet Willy]

So a good friend of mine is the Guatemalan Counsel General in my state and he operates a charity clinic in Honduras. He came by today with his fiance, Silva, who is a Honduran national. Very interesting conversation.

The short story: The Honduran president is an idiot and good riddance.

so, you agree that Obama is wrong to insist that guy be placed back in power?

Has Obama insisted that? I'd like to see a cite for that claim.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So a good friend of mine is the Guatemalan Counsel General in my state and he operates a charity clinic in Honduras. He came by today with his fiance, Silva, who is a Honduran national. Very interesting conversation.

The short story: The Honduran president is an idiot and good riddance.

so, you agree that Obama is wrong to insist that guy be placed back in power?

Has Obama insisted that? I'd like to see a cite for that claim.

He is in agreement with OAS on this, and they demand he be returned to power. Guess your reading skills escaped you this time?

 

[DiveCon]

So a good friend of mine is the Guatemalan Counsel General in my state and he operates a charity clinic in Honduras. He came by today with his fiance, Silva, who is a Honduran national. Very interesting conversation.

The short story: The Honduran president is an idiot and good riddance.

so, you agree that Obama is wrong to insist that guy be placed back in power?

Has Obama insisted that? I'd like to see a cite for that claim.

wow, in spite of the claims about conservatives being stupid, it shows time and time again how uninformed most liberals are


White House: Honduran president should return - Yahoo! News

 

[Sweet Willy]

so, you agree that Obama is wrong to insist that guy be placed back in power?

Has Obama insisted that? I'd like to see a cite for that claim.

He is in agreement with OAS on this, and they demand he be returned to power. Guess your reading skills escaped you this time?

It's a simple question. Has Barak Obama insisted that this man be retruned to power?

Again, I don't want to smell your opinion or Divecons. I am asking if you have this demand from a reputable source.

 

[Sweet Willy]

so, you agree that Obama is wrong to insist that guy be placed back in power?

Has Obama insisted that? I'd like to see a cite for that claim.

wow, in spite of the claims about conservatives being stupid, it shows time and time again how uninformed most liberals are


White House: Honduran president should return - Yahoo! News

Please provide me with any instance of Barak Obama "insisting" that the Honduran president be returned to power.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Fucking retards.

Do I thnik he should be returned to power? Just long enough to arrest him. It was illegal to take him in the middle of the night and depose him. That's the problem. They should have arrested him. But this is how military coups work. If there is no leader, there is no resistance. Which is why you're going to find most leaders lined up against this, especially in latin America. Regardless of how stupid this guy may be, if you legitimize one coup, another is sure to follow.

Obama is taking a moderate stance on the issue, like he does on most things. he is not making any demands or insisting anything. He sees the coup for what it is, a coup. You don't encourage that.

 

[DiveCon]

Has Obama insisted that? I'd like to see a cite for that claim.

wow, in spite of the claims about conservatives being stupid, it shows time and time again how uninformed most liberals are


White House: Honduran president should return - Yahoo! News

Please provide me with any instance of Barak Obama "insisting" that the Honduran president be returned to power.

he said in that link he wants him returned to power

 

[DiveCon]

Fucking retards.

Do I thnik he should be returned to power? Just long enough to arrest him. It was illegal to take him in the middle of the night and depose him. That's the problem. They should have arrested him. But this is how military coups work. If there is no leader, there is no resistance. Which is why you're going to find most leaders lined up against this, especially in latin America. Regardless of how stupid this guy may be, if you legitimize one coup, another is sure to follow.

Obama is taking a moderate stance on the issue, like he does on most things. he is not making any demands or insisting anything. He sees the coup for what it is, a coup. You don't encourage that.

except Obama has said he wants him returned to power
i gave you the link
and dont even try saying it was from "the white house" and "not Obama"

 

[Sweet Willy]

Fucking retards.

Do I thnik he should be returned to power? Just long enough to arrest him. It was illegal to take him in the middle of the night and depose him. That's the problem. They should have arrested him. But this is how military coups work. If there is no leader, there is no resistance. Which is why you're going to find most leaders lined up against this, especially in latin America. Regardless of how stupid this guy may be, if you legitimize one coup, another is sure to follow.

Obama is taking a moderate stance on the issue, like he does on most things. he is not making any demands or insisting anything. He sees the coup for what it is, a coup. You don't encourage that.

except Obama has said he wants him returned to power
i gave you the link
and dont even try saying it was from "the white house" and "not Obama"

You fail, as usual.

Can you, or can you not, provide support for your question that supposes that Barak Obama has "insisted" that this guy be returned to power?

 

[DiveCon]

Fucking retards.

Do I thnik he should be returned to power? Just long enough to arrest him. It was illegal to take him in the middle of the night and depose him. That's the problem. They should have arrested him. But this is how military coups work. If there is no leader, there is no resistance. Which is why you're going to find most leaders lined up against this, especially in latin America. Regardless of how stupid this guy may be, if you legitimize one coup, another is sure to follow.

Obama is taking a moderate stance on the issue, like he does on most things. he is not making any demands or insisting anything. He sees the coup for what it is, a coup. You don't encourage that.

except Obama has said he wants him returned to power
i gave you the link
and dont even try saying it was from "the white house" and "not Obama"

You fail, as usual.

Can you, or can you not, provide support for your question that supposes that Barak Obama has "insisted" that this guy be returned to power?

i already did
in post #73