Heat

[Diuretic]

You're most welcome - I thought it might be of interest.

 

[DiveCon]

is the world still on fire down under?

 

[strollingbones]

i have been keeping up with the arson going on....last total i saw was 116 killed by the fast spreading fires....i dont think most americans realize what a large number that is compared to the ozzie population...are there any hopes of rain?

 

[DiveCon]

i have been keeping up with the arson going on....last total i saw was 116 killed by the fast spreading fires....i dont think most americans realize what a large number that is compared to the ozzie population...are there any hopes of rain?

thats a large number regardless of the size of the population
especially when it took someone really stupid to start the fires
i hope they catch whoever did it and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law

 

[Diuretic]

There are stil some fires in the region where this occurred (in the state of Victoria, Melbourne is the state capital) north-east of Melbourne. The area there is heavy bushland and very picturesque, hence the profileration of small villages. There's a fair bit of natural forest there as well and North Americans would realise what that means when it comes to fires. Some of the fires represent a threat but I think the worst fires are now either contained or controlled but as I say, there is no room for complacency for those people over there.

To date 181 killed and police know there are more. The stories of survivors range from remarkable to heartbreaking. Me being me I'm also very conscious of the terrible toll on livestock and wildlife as well as humans (it's okay I'm not PETA material, just common or garden normal animal lover).

In many ways here in Australlia we're lucky because we haven't been subjected to some of the terrible forms of natural disaster that happen elsewhere. There's an awful irony that in far north Queensland (east coast) there has been flooding which has taken lives and in Victoria there have been these terrible fires. But we sometimes look at the devastation of earthquakes in other countries which take a dreadful toll and of course the tornados that rip through the central US from Texas right up to the mid-west and since we only have cyclones (aka hurricanes in the northern hemisphere) in our tropical north and we thank our lucky stars. This set of fires is our biggest natural disaster ever. I'm not trying to minimise it but when we look at what has happened in other countries it underlines the fact that when it comes to natural disasters we are comparatively lucky.

Radio report just on now, about 20 fires still going but thankfully only 4 ("only") are a threat in north-eastern Victoria.

The US is sending senior firefighters to help out which is much appreciated. Hopefully there will also be an exchange of expertise (my point about North American forest fires) on this. Fire experts are saying that the form of these fires are unusual for this country and that the currrent doctrines will have to be revised. A terrible lessson but we need to learn from it.

 

[strollingbones]

i have been keeping up with the arson going on....last total i saw was 116 killed by the fast spreading fires....i dont think most americans realize what a large number that is compared to the ozzie population...are there any hopes of rain?

thats a large number regardless of the size of the population
especially when it took someone really stupid to start the fires
i hope they catch whoever did it and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law

of course it is a large number...i didnt mean to downplay that at all...

i am sorry this is happening to your country....i dont even want to think about the wildlife and all...i have been reading the stories of families separated and trying to find each other...the cars being overtaken by the fires..the saddest the man who said..."i lost both my kids, mate, nothing matters"

 

[Diuretic]

of course it is a large number...i didnt mean to downplay that at all...

i am sorry this is happening to your country....i dont even want to think about the wildlife and all...i have been reading the stories of families separated and trying to find each other...the cars being overtaken by the fires..the saddest the man who said..."i lost both my kids, mate, nothing matters"

bones I didn't read any downplaying so no problems there. I know what you meant.

I sense the recriminations have started by the way. For some reason it doesn't take us long to start looking for scapegoats. The focus seems to be on the lack of warning, but that's being put down to the fact that the 100 km/h winds and the fierce temperatures of about 48c combined made this event somewhat singular. The fire behaviour (I know next to nothing about fire behaviour but I did attend training on bushfire behaviour which I had to deliver to others so I remember a few things) was apparently like none we've seen before here. Some of that might be down to the topography of the area, unlike much of Australia which is in the temperate zones of an arid savannah type, it is heavily forested there and I don't know if we're that expert in fighting forest fires (which is why it's good to have US experts on the way). But scientists are also saying that we need to learn from this because the pattern of climate and bushfire behaviour is changing.

The government in Victoria has just announced a Royal Commission which is the highest form of inquiry you can have in this country, so that might be useful in finding out the facts rather than the conjecture in this event.

 

[strollingbones]

man vs. nature.....nature always wins...in the long run..there will be investigations...lots of talking heads then everyone will move on

 

[DiveCon]

i have been keeping up with the arson going on....last total i saw was 116 killed by the fast spreading fires....i dont think most americans realize what a large number that is compared to the ozzie population...are there any hopes of rain?

thats a large number regardless of the size of the population
especially when it took someone really stupid to start the fires
i hope they catch whoever did it and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law

of course it is a large number...i didnt mean to downplay that at all...

i am sorry this is happening to your country....i dont even want to think about the wildlife and all...i have been reading the stories of families separated and trying to find each other...the cars being overtaken by the fires..the saddest the man who said..."i lost both my kids, mate, nothing matters"

i wasnt taking it as downplaying either

but its not "my country" i'm an American and i live in America

but 116 is no small number when people are dieing
especially when some asshole decides to set the place on fire

 

[strollingbones]

thats a large number regardless of the size of the population
especially when it took someone really stupid to start the fires
i hope they catch whoever did it and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law

of course it is a large number...i didnt mean to downplay that at all...

i am sorry this is happening to your country....i dont even want to think about the wildlife and all...i have been reading the stories of families separated and trying to find each other...the cars being overtaken by the fires..the saddest the man who said..."i lost both my kids, mate, nothing matters"

i wasnt taking it as downplaying either

but its not "my country" i'm an American and i live in America
but 116 is no small number when people are dieing
especially when some asshole decides to set the place on fire

that really confused me...has nothing to do with being an american...has everything to do with reconizing what is going on in another country...plus...need i remind you..oz is a strong ally of the us.

did you see where the nutzos are calling for an forest fire or arson jihad?

 

[DiveCon]

of course it is a large number...i didnt mean to downplay that at all...

i am sorry this is happening to your country....i dont even want to think about the wildlife and all...i have been reading the stories of families separated and trying to find each other...the cars being overtaken by the fires..the saddest the man who said..."i lost both my kids, mate, nothing matters"

i wasnt taking it as downplaying either

but its not "my country" i'm an American and i live in America
but 116 is no small number when people are dieing
especially when some asshole decides to set the place on fire

that really confused me...has nothing to do with being an american...has everything to do with reconizing what is going on in another country...plus...need i remind you..oz is a strong ally of the us.

did you see where the nutzos are calling for an forest fire or arson jihad?

the enviro nuts?

 

[Charles_Main]

6 degrees farenheit in my neck of the woods.
The last two winters have been colder than we've had in decades in my neck of the woods. Global warming my ass.

January is officially the coldest month ever recorded in Northern Michigan, and this winter over all is the coldest in a century.

They keep talking about Global warming even when most signs are no pointing to a cooling trend which started almost 10 years ago now.

Now Obama will push through Carbon Legislation and use Fear mongering to do it, just as he is with the stimulus bill, and all of our electric and Heat bills will double over night, all in the name of fighting something that it is become questionable if it is even happening or not.

Obama is quickly losing his chances with me, 3 strikes and your out.

He is no better than Bush was.

He just lies and fear mongers about different things, and spends money even faster.

 

[Diuretic]

Well down here Charles we have very sober-minded people looking at the way thngs are changing here and they're looking to the future. Already we're thinking of how we may have to adapt to what is a rapidly changing climate here. One of the problems we have right now is the southward (towards the previously temperate zones) of dengue fever, a disease that is endemic in our tropical north but which is now moving south as the climate changes. It's a world-wide phenomenon, it's occurring outside of Michigan, I assure you.

 

[DiveCon]

Well down here Charles we have very sober-minded people looking at the way thngs are changing here and they're looking to the future. Already we're thinking of how we may have to adapt to what is a rapidly changing climate here. One of the problems we have right now is the southward (towards the previously temperate zones) of dengue fever, a disease that is endemic in our tropical north but which is now moving south as the climate changes. It's a world-wide phenomenon, it's occurring outside of Michigan, I assure you.

arent the summers down under always hotter than our summers anyway?

 

[Diuretic]

It's hotter in Death Valley then anywhere in Australia. Our highest temp was at Oodnadatta 50.7c, in Death Valley, 56.7c. Now I know why they call it "Death Valley".

But here the summers have been longer and our winters have been drier. Where I live we have long, hot and arid summers but we expect that as we are in the driest state in this country, but our winters for the last few years have been very dry, usually we're used to winter rains which fill up our reservoirs (we get a lot of our water from the River Murray but that's almost stuffed thanks to abuses upstream but that's a domestic issue here that is of no import to the rest of the world) but for the past few years we've had dry winters and that's bad news.

I just had a read of The Age and I thought this article was informative.

People died doing exactly what they were told to do | theage.com.au

When we moved into our rural haven at Cottles Bridge the clock started ticking on 10 years of well-below-average rainfall. The summers became hotter and hotter until this year, when day after day of intense heat left the landscape looking like it had been left in the oven too long. And the leaves on the trees we had been boldly planting all these years were burnt brown by the sun and shrivelled while I heaved buckets of water around the place trying desperately to sustain them

The writer is referencing how we may need to change our bushfire response doctrine but his experience over the last 10 years is informative.

 

[Diuretic]

There's lots of money and goods coming in for people which is terrific but if you're so inclined to help out the organisations that are trying to help animals in this bushfire emergency then this is a link

RSPCA Victoria: Home

Just click on Victoria's Bushfires up there in the right hand corner.

There is also a link to the Australian Red Cross appeal (human benefit).

But in case you can't find it

Australian Red Cross


Don't worry, I donated equal amounts to both humans and animals - I might be quirky but I'm not unbalanced

 

[Old Rocks]

Well down here Charles we have very sober-minded people looking at the way thngs are changing here and they're looking to the future. Already we're thinking of how we may have to adapt to what is a rapidly changing climate here. One of the problems we have right now is the southward (towards the previously temperate zones) of dengue fever, a disease that is endemic in our tropical north but which is now moving south as the climate changes. It's a world-wide phenomenon, it's occurring outside of Michigan, I assure you.

While many in the US want to deny it, things are changing here, also. Our mountain snows are gone much earlier than was the case for most of the last century. Many of the trees in our forests are bug infested, because the bugs are starting their life cycles earlier, before their natural predetors, the birds, are back, even though the birds now are also reacting to the changing climate. Because of the amount of dead wood, and summer drying from lack of higher elevation snows, our forest fires tend now to start crowning with less wind. So what would have been a ground fire 50 years ago, a boon to the forest, now turns into a crown fire, destroying the forest.

Here in the Northwest, the summers have been warmer, the winters much warmer than in the past. And we have had much more intense storms than we had in the last century. We have had many winters now where we thought we had an adaquete snowpack, only to see it melt off much too early. Western Washington and Western Oregon are feeling that only in relation to forest fires and munincipal resouvoirs, however, Eastern Oregon and Eastern Washington are losing agricultural production because of the lack of late season water.

 

[Diuretic]

Crown fires - those are bloody scary things. I've only every seen film and that's all I ever want to see.

I know that the sceptics will be on me like a tonne (we're metric ya know ) of bricks, but I do think that climate change is an issue here. You've pointed out the changes in the Pacific NW and I assure any doubters that there is ample evidence of climate change in this country. It may or may not be anthropomorphic (what would I know) but it's there and we down here need to manage it. If that requires a change in the way we live then so be it.

I'm not a radical greenie, in fact they put me right off with their totally unreasonable and doctrinaire responses, give them a millimetre and they'll take a kilometre (we're metric ya know ), but I'm more than happy to see the scientific evidence and then see some sensible, practical policy to deal with the environment in a positive manner.

 

[DiveCon]

Well down here Charles we have very sober-minded people looking at the way thngs are changing here and they're looking to the future. Already we're thinking of how we may have to adapt to what is a rapidly changing climate here. One of the problems we have right now is the southward (towards the previously temperate zones) of dengue fever, a disease that is endemic in our tropical north but which is now moving south as the climate changes. It's a world-wide phenomenon, it's occurring outside of Michigan, I assure you.

While many in the US want to deny it, things are changing here, also. Our mountain snows are gone much earlier than was the case for most of the last century. Many of the trees in our forests are bug infested, because the bugs are starting their life cycles earlier, before their natural predetors, the birds, are back, even though the birds now are also reacting to the changing climate. Because of the amount of dead wood, and summer drying from lack of higher elevation snows, our forest fires tend now to start crowning with less wind. So what would have been a ground fire 50 years ago, a boon to the forest, now turns into a crown fire, destroying the forest.

Here in the Northwest, the summers have been warmer, the winters much warmer than in the past. And we have had much more intense storms than we had in the last century. We have had many winters now where we thought we had an adaquete snowpack, only to see it melt off much too early. Western Washington and Western Oregon are feeling that only in relation to forest fires and munincipal resouvoirs, however, Eastern Oregon and Eastern Washington are losing agricultural production because of the lack of late season water.

um, from whats been said already, these fires are NOT from natural happenings, but were set by morons


this has absolutely NOTHING to do with gorebal warming

 

[Kazikli Bey]

this has absolutely NOTHING to do with gorebal warming

Actually, two of them were started by lightning. And, i would also like to point out that when you have a fire this big and this much devastation to the environment, there are going to be many local climactic problems. I mean, it is nothing compared to what a super-volcanic eruption could do, but there are going to be environmental effects anyway.