Health Insurers Raise Rates Because of Obamacare

[RDD_1210]

Okay, switching back to that argument. So, I got you on the car accident point.

Most people are well protected under bankruptcy laws and would suffer minimal losses on a medical bankruptcy. People do this on a regular basis. Care to inquire as to why it is so popular? Cheaper than insurance and fairly easy to get. No denial of coverage. You do realize hospitals will give you care on the conditions you mentioned right?

IT GETS EVEN BETTER! Your solution is bankruptcy!!! LMAO!!!!! LOL!!!! Holy shit, I need to catch my breath. WOW!!!

You have been pwned from here to eternity. Every post you have made is simply factually wrong. When you can't refute it, you declare victory and go home.

The basic point is proven: young people will not enroll in insurance plans that exceed to cost of the fine for not doing it. They will remain uninsured until they get sick, at which time they will apply for and get insurance. If they can't, their relatives can certainly do it for them under power of attorney (didn't consider that one, eh?).
Thus insurers will not really get the stock of premium-paying low risk people they thought but will be stuck with mandates that raise exposure.
Thus rates will continue up at ever greater percentages until a government takeover is the "only" solution.

I'm "pwned" but these two genius minds are suggesting medical bankruptcy and using power of attorney as solutions to the healthcare crisis. LMAO!!! If that's being "pwned" then so be it. Simply amazing!!!

 

[saveliberty]

Ignorance on full display. You can't go without coverage and then just pick it up the day you get sick. What happens if you are in a car accident and are in a coma? Still gonna call to request coverage? Well thought out logic though.

In reality, there will be enrollment periods preventing people from being able to do this.

This is the post I responded to. Thanks for the intellectual dishonesty.

 

[RDD_1210]

Ignorance on full display. You can't go without coverage and then just pick it up the day you get sick. What happens if you are in a car accident and are in a coma? Still gonna call to request coverage? Well thought out logic though.

In reality, there will be enrollment periods preventing people from being able to do this.

This is the post I responded to. Thanks for the intellectual dishonesty.

Bankruptcy!!! This is why republicans can't fix the healthcare system, you're suggesting bankruptcy as a solution!. Bwahahahahahahha!!!!

 

[The Rabbi]

Ignorance on full display. You can't go without coverage and then just pick it up the day you get sick. What happens if you are in a car accident and are in a coma? Still gonna call to request coverage? Well thought out logic though.

In reality, there will be enrollment periods preventing people from being able to do this.

This is the post I responded to. Thanks for the intellectual dishonesty.

Bankruptcy!!! This is why republicans can't fix the healthcare system, you're suggesting bankruptcy as a solution!. Bwahahahahahahha!!!!

Who is suggesting bankruptcy as a solution to health care problems?
No one. It is a straw man of your own making. The suggestion is that people ALREADY USE BANKRUPTCY as a solution to medical bills they cannot pay. The Obamacare fix will not help that situation. In fact, it will make it worse.

 

[RDD_1210]

This is the post I responded to. Thanks for the intellectual dishonesty.

Bankruptcy!!! This is why republicans can't fix the healthcare system, you're suggesting bankruptcy as a solution!. Bwahahahahahahha!!!!

Who is suggesting bankruptcy as a solution to health care problems?
No one. It is a straw man of your own making. The suggestion is that people ALREADY USE BANKRUPTCY as a solution to medical bills they cannot pay. The Obamacare fix will not help that situation. In fact, it will make it worse.

I asked what people should do who do not have health insurance and have a catastrophic incident. His suggestion was bankruptcy! "It's "worked" for so many people before, why not keep doing it" he says. LOL!!

And the removing of caps on coverages and coverage denial for pre-existing conditions DOES address this issue.

The two of you are so ridiculously stubborn and biased it's quite literally breath taking. LMAO!!!

 

[saveliberty]

I asked what people should do who do not have health insurance and have a catastrophic incident. His suggestion was bankruptcy! "It's "worked" for so many people before, why not keep doing it" he says. LOL!!

And the removing of caps on coverages and coverage denial for pre-existing conditions DOES address this issue.

The two of you are so ridiculously stubborn and biased it's quite literally breath taking. LMAO!!!

Really?

This is the post I responded to:

"Ignorance on full display. You can't go without coverage and then just pick it up the day you get sick. What happens if you are in a car accident and are in a coma? Still gonna call to request coverage? Well thought out logic though." - RDD_1210 post #88

Further, I simply responded with what many people are doing to combet the issue. You suggested I was wrong, so I posted information showing that is how almost 2 million people a year deal with it.

You have been wrong at every turn, so you resorted to lies and fabricated quotes.

 

[The Rabbi]

Bankruptcy!!! This is why republicans can't fix the healthcare system, you're suggesting bankruptcy as a solution!. Bwahahahahahahha!!!!

Who is suggesting bankruptcy as a solution to health care problems?
No one. It is a straw man of your own making. The suggestion is that people ALREADY USE BANKRUPTCY as a solution to medical bills they cannot pay. The Obamacare fix will not help that situation. In fact, it will make it worse.

I asked what people should do who do not have health insurance and have a catastrophic incident. His suggestion was bankruptcy! "It's "worked" for so many people before, why not keep doing it" he says. LOL!!

And the removing of caps on coverages and coverage denial for pre-existing conditions DOES address this issue.

The two of you are so ridiculously stubborn and biased it's quite literally breath taking. LMAO!!!

You're making shit up again.
You did not ask that. You asked about a very specific case of someone in a car accident AND comatose.
The response given was adequate.
Removing caps and pre-existing "addresses" the issue in the sense of making it worse. It will encourage people to go without insurance, knowing full well they can get it later.

 

[Gadawg73]

Insurance is the worst possible delivery system imagineable with a commodity people use as a benefit.
Is a car accident a benefit?
Is a death a benefit?
Group health insurance has ruined American health care. Anything where a third party pays the bill is ripe for fraud and waste.
Blank check health care for seniors must also end.

 

[RDD_1210]

Who is suggesting bankruptcy as a solution to health care problems?
No one. It is a straw man of your own making. The suggestion is that people ALREADY USE BANKRUPTCY as a solution to medical bills they cannot pay. The Obamacare fix will not help that situation. In fact, it will make it worse.

I asked what people should do who do not have health insurance and have a catastrophic incident. His suggestion was bankruptcy! "It's "worked" for so many people before, why not keep doing it" he says. LOL!!

And the removing of caps on coverages and coverage denial for pre-existing conditions DOES address this issue.

The two of you are so ridiculously stubborn and biased it's quite literally breath taking. LMAO!!!

You're making shit up again.
You did not ask that. You asked about a very specific case of someone in a car accident AND comatose.
The response given was adequate.
Removing caps and pre-existing "addresses" the issue in the sense of making it worse. It will encourage people to go without insurance, knowing full well they can get it later.

Concrete thinking at its finest. I used a car accident as an example, with the point being someone who is incapacitated and could not sign up for insurance on the spot. When this point went right over his head, I had to expand my example to show that people can be rendered unconscious in cases other then auto accidents. I'm sorry for assuming that he couldn't make the connection, which you seem to refuse to do either.

His "solution" for these people by declaring bankruptcy to cover their medical bills is FAR from adequate and is actually quite ridiculous and only further highlights the need for healthcare reform in this country.

Next time, when you lose an argument, instead of making yourself look worse by posting further, just admit maybe you were wrong and stop posting.

 

[saveliberty]

I asked what people should do who do not have health insurance and have a catastrophic incident. His suggestion was bankruptcy! "It's "worked" for so many people before, why not keep doing it" he says. LOL!!

And the removing of caps on coverages and coverage denial for pre-existing conditions DOES address this issue.

The two of you are so ridiculously stubborn and biased it's quite literally breath taking. LMAO!!!

You're making shit up again.
You did not ask that. You asked about a very specific case of someone in a car accident AND comatose.
The response given was adequate.
Removing caps and pre-existing "addresses" the issue in the sense of making it worse. It will encourage people to go without insurance, knowing full well they can get it later.

Concrete thinking at its finest. I used a car accident as an example, with the point being someone who is incapacitated and could not sign up for insurance on the spot. When this point went right over his head, I had to expand my example to show that people can be rendered unconscious in cases other then auto accidents. I'm sorry for assuming that he couldn't make the connection, which you seem to refuse to do either.

His "solution" for these people by declaring bankruptcy to cover their medical bills is FAR from adequate and is actually quite ridiculous and only further highlights the need for healthcare reform in this country.

Next time, when you lose an argument, instead of making yourself look worse by posting further, just admit maybe you were wrong and stop posting.

Really? My solution? I don't even go to a doctor. I have health insurance. Almost two million Americans use it annually. Yet, you choose not to see it as an answer by many. We had healthcare reform. Did you get the memo? How is it working out for you so far? From what I see, it is increasing insurance premiums by 1-2% more than Obama said it would.

 

[RDD_1210]

You're making shit up again.
You did not ask that. You asked about a very specific case of someone in a car accident AND comatose.
The response given was adequate.
Removing caps and pre-existing "addresses" the issue in the sense of making it worse. It will encourage people to go without insurance, knowing full well they can get it later.

Concrete thinking at its finest. I used a car accident as an example, with the point being someone who is incapacitated and could not sign up for insurance on the spot. When this point went right over his head, I had to expand my example to show that people can be rendered unconscious in cases other then auto accidents. I'm sorry for assuming that he couldn't make the connection, which you seem to refuse to do either.

His "solution" for these people by declaring bankruptcy to cover their medical bills is FAR from adequate and is actually quite ridiculous and only further highlights the need for healthcare reform in this country.

Next time, when you lose an argument, instead of making yourself look worse by posting further, just admit maybe you were wrong and stop posting.

Really? My solution? I don't even go to a doctor. I have health insurance. Almost two million Americans use it annually. Yet, you choose not to see it as an answer by many. We had healthcare reform. Did you get the memo? How is it working out for you so far? From what I see, it is increasing insurance premiums by 1-2% more than Obama said it would.

I mean this is the nicest way possible.......if you're still advocating that people SHOULD be filing for bankruptcy to take care of their medical bills and DON'T see how that's a major part of the problem in this country with the healthcare system then you obviously lack the mental capacity to even try to continue to discuss this any further.

 

[saveliberty]

Concrete thinking at its finest. I used a car accident as an example, with the point being someone who is incapacitated and could not sign up for insurance on the spot. When this point went right over his head, I had to expand my example to show that people can be rendered unconscious in cases other then auto accidents. I'm sorry for assuming that he couldn't make the connection, which you seem to refuse to do either.

His "solution" for these people by declaring bankruptcy to cover their medical bills is FAR from adequate and is actually quite ridiculous and only further highlights the need for healthcare reform in this country.

Next time, when you lose an argument, instead of making yourself look worse by posting further, just admit maybe you were wrong and stop posting.

Really? My solution? I don't even go to a doctor. I have health insurance. Almost two million Americans use it annually. Yet, you choose not to see it as an answer by many. We had healthcare reform. Did you get the memo? How is it working out for you so far? From what I see, it is increasing insurance premiums by 1-2% more than Obama said it would.

I mean this is the nicest way possible.......if you're still advocating that people SHOULD be filing for bankruptcy to take care of their medical bills and DON'T see how that's a major part of the problem in this country with the healthcare system then you obviously lack the mental capacity to even try to continue to discuss this any further.

Why didn't the Dems eliminate medical bankruptcies then? I mean this in the nicest way, but if you can't be more honest then STFU.

 

[RDD_1210]

Really? My solution? I don't even go to a doctor. I have health insurance. Almost two million Americans use it annually. Yet, you choose not to see it as an answer by many. We had healthcare reform. Did you get the memo? How is it working out for you so far? From what I see, it is increasing insurance premiums by 1-2% more than Obama said it would.

I mean this is the nicest way possible.......if you're still advocating that people SHOULD be filing for bankruptcy to take care of their medical bills and DON'T see how that's a major part of the problem in this country with the healthcare system then you obviously lack the mental capacity to even try to continue to discuss this any further.

Why didn't the Dems eliminate medical bankruptcies then? I mean this in the nicest way, but if you can't be more honest then STFU.

Thanks again for the laughs!! Made my day.

 

[saveliberty]

I mean this is the nicest way possible.......if you're still advocating that people SHOULD be filing for bankruptcy to take care of their medical bills and DON'T see how that's a major part of the problem in this country with the healthcare system then you obviously lack the mental capacity to even try to continue to discuss this any further.

Why didn't the Dems eliminate medical bankruptcies then? I mean this in the nicest way, but if you can't be more honest then STFU.

Thanks again for the laughs!! Made my day.

Medical bankruptcies aren't a Dem priority. Just what I thought. Apparently you can't discuss the issue at all. Nervous laughter often can cover for a lack of understanding.

 

[Greenbeard]

Why didn't the Dems eliminate medical bankruptcies then? I mean this in the nicest way, but if you can't be more honest then STFU.

Well, start with some facts:

Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them.

They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.

"That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study -- 78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services," says Woolhandler. "Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance."​

So it looks like if we're talking about medical bankruptcies, we're look at two basic kinds of people:

1. People who don't have insurance but get sick; or, conversely, people who get sick and lose their job/coverage because of it. Either way, they then have trouble paying for the care they need.
2. People who do have insurance (the large majority) but find their coverage isn't comprehensive enough or that the cost-sharing is more than they can handle, financially.

So if you wanted to address this issue, how might you proceed? First, you might eliminate lifetime limits and put restrictions on annual limits with respect to benefits (I'll tack on there the obvious step of also ending rescissions). Second, you might put limits on out-of-pocket spending. Third, you might establish a uniform baseline standard of comprehensive coverage that plans must meet. Fourth, you might create viable alternatives to employer-sponsored coverage so that someone who loses their job need not necessarily become uninsured. All of these will be happening, some of them starting in plan years that begin after next week.

Combating medical bankruptcies means addressing their causes.

 

[saveliberty]

Why didn't the Dems eliminate medical bankruptcies then? I mean this in the nicest way, but if you can't be more honest then STFU.

Well, start with some facts:

Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them.

They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.

"That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study -- 78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services," says Woolhandler. "Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance."​

So it looks like if we're talking about medical bankruptcies, we're look at two basic kinds of people:

1. People who don't have insurance but get sick; or, conversely, people who get sick and lose their job/coverage because of it. Either way, they then have trouble paying for the care they need.
2. People who do have insurance (the large majority) but find their coverage isn't comprehensive enough or that the cost-sharing is more than they can handle, financially.

So if you wanted to address this issue, how might you proceed? First, you might eliminate lifetime limits and put restrictions on annual limits with respect to benefits (I'll tack on there the obvious step of also ending rescissions). Second, you might put limits on out-of-pocket spending. Third, you might establish a uniform baseline standard of comprehensive coverage that plans must meet. Fourth, you might create viable alternatives to employer-sponsored coverage so that someone who loses their job need not necessarily become uninsured. All of these will be happening, some of them starting in plan years that begin after next week.

Combating medical bankruptcies means addressing their causes.

Democrats had their chance this last spring. Why the fail? Probably because your suggested fixes would make healthcare insurance too expensive for anyone but the rich or in Congress.

 

[Greenbeard]

Had their chance at what?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Has anyone ever answered what reporting purchases over $600 to the IRS has to do with Health Care Reform?

 

[saveliberty]

Had their chance at what?

Focus there Greenbeard. What is the thread topic again? Wipe your mouth your drooling.

 

[Greenbeard]

Had their chance at what?

Focus there Greenbeard. What is the thread topic again? Wipe your mouth your drooling.

Have we moved on from "this law does nothing to prevent medical bankruptcies" to "this law does too much to prevent bankruptcies"?