Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

[Cuyo]

Hell, at least you're principled. But I think you'll find you're in a minority even among your own.

All I hear is a lot of wanting healthcare costs to go down, without denying vital services, and without government intervention. It's like saying "I want you to cut my grass, but only if you also give me a handjob."

While I don't agree with your position, at least it makes sense.

I know i am in the minority.....i am also realistic and truthful.

I really don't give a shit if your baby is not going to live another extra year without the 10 million dollar surgery. Say good by now instead of later and don't waste the money.

I really don't care if your 99 year old mother needs a heart transplant.... she wont live much longer anyway. Say good by now and not later. Don't waste the money OR organ.

I don't care if you cant get your dick up and you WANT Viagra... tough shit... you wont die not having sex.

I could care less if you want a sex change.... you wont die without one.

You got shot gang banging...though. I don't care if you bleed out on a gurney.... you can wait till everyone else in the ER is taken care of.

The only way to make universal health care work is to put limits on what services you CAN have.


So ...back to broken leg man.... ya patch him up. You put a plaster cast on him... not a high tech fiberglass one. I don't care if you want rehab or psychical therapy...if you want it pay for it. I don't care if turns out is ugly... if you want a plastic surgeon to fix you... pay for it.

So if you suddenly find yourself out of job because of some Chinese takeover, have your health coverage discontinued and you get acute appendicitis, you deserve to die because you have no insurance? That is essentially what you are saying. Not all the people without insurance are at fault. Some do milk the system but a lot of people have no recourse.

The healthcare industry is a for profit industry and to that end each level tries to maximize that profit. The doctor, the pharmacists, the hospitals, the nursing homes, the equipment suppliers, the drug companies and all the middle men. That is the way it is set up. It is not set up to provide affordable care but to make a profit and as much as they can.

All good points, and another crucial part of the debate. Say your HMO buried in line 19 of page 40 of rider 3 in your policy that lymphoma isn't covered if you own a diabetic hamster... Then lo and behold, lymphoma... Diabetic hamster... figures.

I know that's an extraneous scenario but this sort of thing does happen. You may think you have great insurance for years, until 'The big one' happens... Suddenly some stipulation precludes you from receiving payment.

But do we want THE GUBMINT to tell insurance companies what they CAN and CANNOT do??? What is this, Nazi Germany? I mean, won't the free market handle this sort of thing? Can't you just take it as a lesson learned and not use that insurance company anymore?

Universal single payer and laissez faire free-market are not the only two options, just as Smart Cars and Hummers are not your only two options. Obamacare is a middle ground that for decades prior, we were not pursuing.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

You don't have a right to someone else's labor. End of story.

Oh, and Bernie Sanders is an admitted Socialist.

 

[mskafka]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

You don't have a right to someone else's labor. End of story.

Oh, and Bernie Sanders is an admitted Socialist.

That is true. Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. But if it came down to it....rather than watch someone die....I would help them.

 

[saveliberty]

With rights come responsibilities. Those who insist on universal healthcare must be willing to submit to healthy lifestyles. The only logical penalty is withholding medical services from those who refuse to be healthy.

 

[Oldstyle]

Hell, at least you're principled. But I think you'll find you're in a minority even among your own.

All I hear is a lot of wanting healthcare costs to go down, without denying vital services, and without government intervention. It's like saying "I want you to cut my grass, but only if you also give me a handjob."

While I don't agree with your position, at least it makes sense.

I know i am in the minority.....i am also realistic and truthful.

I really don't give a shit if your baby is not going to live another extra year without the 10 million dollar surgery. Say good by now instead of later and don't waste the money.

I really don't care if your 99 year old mother needs a heart transplant.... she wont live much longer anyway. Say good by now and not later. Don't waste the money OR organ.

I don't care if you cant get your dick up and you WANT Viagra... tough shit... you wont die not having sex.

I could care less if you want a sex change.... you wont die without one.

You got shot gang banging...though. I don't care if you bleed out on a gurney.... you can wait till everyone else in the ER is taken care of.

The only way to make universal health care work is to put limits on what services you CAN have.


So ...back to broken leg man.... ya patch him up. You put a plaster cast on him... not a high tech fiberglass one. I don't care if you want rehab or psychical therapy...if you want it pay for it. I don't care if turns out is ugly... if you want a plastic surgeon to fix you... pay for it.

So if you suddenly find yourself out of job because of some Chinese takeover, have your health coverage discontinued and you get acute appendicitis, you deserve to die because you have no insurance? That is essentially what you are saying. Not all the people without insurance are at fault. Some do milk the system but a lot of people have no recourse.

The healthcare industry is a for profit industry and to that end each level tries to maximize that profit. The doctor, the pharmacists, the hospitals, the nursing homes, the equipment suppliers, the drug companies and all the middle men. That is the way it is set up. It is not set up to provide affordable care but to make a profit and as much as they can.

If you've got acute appendicitus you go to any ER in the country and they admit you immediately and treat your condition. THEY HAVE TO BY LAW!!! You folks are astoundingly uneducated on this issue.

Our health care system needed reforms to make it more affordable...what we got was ObamaCare which ignored tort reform (gee, guess who the trial lawyers gave millions to?) and doesn't address the costs of illegals getting their health care through our ER's. So now my health care premiums have gone up because the insurance companies are raising their rates now before they're not allowed to next year. As with most things progressives touch...this has been a cluster you know what from the word go.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

Ya know what would really help with that number?

Telling people that don't make enough to afford a kid to stop fucking. Stop lying to them by telling them it's ok if you use birth control. The bullshit that they are 99% effective is an out and out lie.

 

[Cuyo]

I know i am in the minority.....i am also realistic and truthful.

I really don't give a shit if your baby is not going to live another extra year without the 10 million dollar surgery. Say good by now instead of later and don't waste the money.

I really don't care if your 99 year old mother needs a heart transplant.... she wont live much longer anyway. Say good by now and not later. Don't waste the money OR organ.

I don't care if you cant get your dick up and you WANT Viagra... tough shit... you wont die not having sex.

I could care less if you want a sex change.... you wont die without one.

You got shot gang banging...though. I don't care if you bleed out on a gurney.... you can wait till everyone else in the ER is taken care of.

The only way to make universal health care work is to put limits on what services you CAN have.


So ...back to broken leg man.... ya patch him up. You put a plaster cast on him... not a high tech fiberglass one. I don't care if you want rehab or psychical therapy...if you want it pay for it. I don't care if turns out is ugly... if you want a plastic surgeon to fix you... pay for it.

So if you suddenly find yourself out of job because of some Chinese takeover, have your health coverage discontinued and you get acute appendicitis, you deserve to die because you have no insurance? That is essentially what you are saying. Not all the people without insurance are at fault. Some do milk the system but a lot of people have no recourse.

The healthcare industry is a for profit industry and to that end each level tries to maximize that profit. The doctor, the pharmacists, the hospitals, the nursing homes, the equipment suppliers, the drug companies and all the middle men. That is the way it is set up. It is not set up to provide affordable care but to make a profit and as much as they can.

If you've got acute appendicitus you go to any ER in the country and they admit you immediately and treat your condition. THEY HAVE TO BY LAW!!! You folks are astoundingly uneducated on this issue.

Maybe your preconceived notion of what 'us folks' believe is just off-kilter. You don't seem to be listening at all. I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't know that the ER will give service to non-paying customers... THAT'S the problem! Who pays for it? Answer: Paying customers via higher medical costs, ergo higher premiums!

Our health care system needed reforms to make it more affordable...what we got was ObamaCare which ignored tort reform (gee, guess who the trial lawyers gave millions to?) and doesn't address the costs of illegals getting their health care through our ER's. So now my health care premiums have gone up because the insurance companies are raising their rates now before they're not allowed to next year. As with most things progressives touch...this has been a cluster you know what from the word go.

Tort reform is a fart in the wind next to the systemic problems with the system, and this has been shown repeatedly. The right to sue is a consumer protection, and why should bureaucrats be able to determine in a blanket fashion how much someone's life is worth?

 

[Full-Auto]

So if you suddenly find yourself out of job because of some Chinese takeover, have your health coverage discontinued and you get acute appendicitis, you deserve to die because you have no insurance? That is essentially what you are saying. Not all the people without insurance are at fault. Some do milk the system but a lot of people have no recourse.

The healthcare industry is a for profit industry and to that end each level tries to maximize that profit. The doctor, the pharmacists, the hospitals, the nursing homes, the equipment suppliers, the drug companies and all the middle men. That is the way it is set up. It is not set up to provide affordable care but to make a profit and as much as they can.

If you've got acute appendicitus you go to any ER in the country and they admit you immediately and treat your condition. THEY HAVE TO BY LAW!!! You folks are astoundingly uneducated on this issue.

Maybe your preconceived notion of what 'us folks' believe is just off-kilter. You don't seem to be listening at all. I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't know that the ER will give service to non-paying customers... THAT'S the problem! Who pays for it? Answer: Paying customers via higher medical costs, ergo higher premiums!

Our health care system needed reforms to make it more affordable...what we got was ObamaCare which ignored tort reform (gee, guess who the trial lawyers gave millions to?) and doesn't address the costs of illegals getting their health care through our ER's. So now my health care premiums have gone up because the insurance companies are raising their rates now before they're not allowed to next year. As with most things progressives touch...this has been a cluster you know what from the word go.

Tort reform is a fart in the wind next to the systemic problems with the system, and this has been shown repeatedly. The right to sue is a consumer protection, and why should bureaucrats be able to determine in a blanket fashion how much someone's life is worth?

Thats part of it, but we use the justice system as a judicial lottery. So its not just a fart.

 

[Oldstyle]

So if you suddenly find yourself out of job because of some Chinese takeover, have your health coverage discontinued and you get acute appendicitis, you deserve to die because you have no insurance? That is essentially what you are saying. Not all the people without insurance are at fault. Some do milk the system but a lot of people have no recourse.

The healthcare industry is a for profit industry and to that end each level tries to maximize that profit. The doctor, the pharmacists, the hospitals, the nursing homes, the equipment suppliers, the drug companies and all the middle men. That is the way it is set up. It is not set up to provide affordable care but to make a profit and as much as they can.

If you've got acute appendicitus you go to any ER in the country and they admit you immediately and treat your condition. THEY HAVE TO BY LAW!!! You folks are astoundingly uneducated on this issue.

Maybe your preconceived notion of what 'us folks' believe is just off-kilter. You don't seem to be listening at all. I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't know that the ER will give service to non-paying customers... THAT'S the problem! Who pays for it? Answer: Paying customers via higher medical costs, ergo higher premiums!

Our health care system needed reforms to make it more affordable...what we got was ObamaCare which ignored tort reform (gee, guess who the trial lawyers gave millions to?) and doesn't address the costs of illegals getting their health care through our ER's. So now my health care premiums have gone up because the insurance companies are raising their rates now before they're not allowed to next year. As with most things progressives touch...this has been a cluster you know what from the word go.

Tort reform is a fart in the wind next to the systemic problems with the system, and this has been shown repeatedly. The right to sue is a consumer protection, and why should bureaucrats be able to determine in a blanket fashion how much someone's life is worth?

Yeah, that was the story the trial lawyers were spinning. It's estimated that defensive practices by doctors adds 1.4 billion dollars to the cost of health care every year...costs that we pick up. So why WASN'T tort reform included in the health care reform act? Because the Democrats got paid off by the trial lawyers to the tune of 234 million dollars in the 2008 election cycle...that's why.

 

[Bern80]

I just commented in another thread that I hate when the debate is framed as "Right v privelige," but let me play devils advocate here.

When Bill shatters his leg and doesn't have insurance and will die without care... Let him die?

There is no emergency room that will deny service to urgent situations.

That being said.... emergency rooms need to refuse anything that is not an emergency.

I know that's the way it is now, and it's a big part of why it's so broken. Everyone loves to exercise that Truine brain and shout about how everyone should have to pay, but nobody's willing to let Bill die if he can't pay.

I think a mandate for most is a pretty damn good common ground... But at least partially because I'm not hearing a lot of alternatives from those who so hate the concept.

I know that seems like the practical fix to many, but it is not. It is far too slippery slope and frankly probably wouldn't do that well in actually making people healthier either. That the federal government can make you purchase something from another private party is a precedent that has never existed before. It begs some big picture questions such as how free are you really if your government can make you spend your money? What can't they make you purchase?

This is an analogy that a lot of people have a hard time swallowing, but I believe would be the best way to handle health care. You treat health care like you treat your car as far as their costs. Believe me there is far more in common between the two than not. The only major difference is the level of which people priortize the two, but even that isn't too different for a lot of people. In fact, short of life or death situation there are probably a lot of people that take more care of their cars than they do themselves.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

Agreed, healthcare is a right.....that you can pay for if you want it.

I just commented in another thread that I hate when the debate is framed as "Right v privelige," but let me play devils advocate here.

When Bill shatters his leg and doesn't have insurance and will die without care... Let him die?

I will never understand why the same people who shrug at the idea of killing millions of babies simply because their existence is inconvenient or at the suggestion of euthanizing the sick and elderly for the same reason somehow consider prolonging the existence of everyone else under all circumstances and at all costs the sacred, ultimate calling of people who don't even know the person.

God forbid we just stop deliberately offing people and let everyone else tend to themselves. Not like that's both more sensible and more possible.

 

[PredFan]

I just commented in another thread that I hate when the debate is framed as "Right v privelige," but let me play devils advocate here.

When Bill shatters his leg and doesn't have insurance and will die without care... Let him die?

Wghen Bill shatters his leg, he goes to the ER. Then he is admitted into the hospital. If he can't pay, the hospital eats the cost. Bill is never thrown out on his ass.

As I stated two posts up, yes, that's the way it is, and that's the problem...

It is not THE problem and your summation that the individual mandate is good common ground is completely wrong.

 

[PredFan]

Hell, at least you're principled. But I think you'll find you're in a minority even among your own.

All I hear is a lot of wanting healthcare costs to go down, without denying vital services, and without government intervention. It's like saying "I want you to cut my grass, but only if you also give me a handjob."

While I don't agree with your position, at least it makes sense.

I know i am in the minority.....i am also realistic and truthful.

I really don't give a shit if your baby is not going to live another extra year without the 10 million dollar surgery. Say good by now instead of later and don't waste the money.

I really don't care if your 99 year old mother needs a heart transplant.... she wont live much longer anyway. Say good by now and not later. Don't waste the money OR organ.

I don't care if you cant get your dick up and you WANT Viagra... tough shit... you wont die not having sex.

I could care less if you want a sex change.... you wont die without one.

You got shot gang banging...though. I don't care if you bleed out on a gurney.... you can wait till everyone else in the ER is taken care of.

The only way to make universal health care work is to put limits on what services you CAN have.


So ...back to broken leg man.... ya patch him up. You put a plaster cast on him... not a high tech fiberglass one. I don't care if you want rehab or psychical therapy...if you want it pay for it. I don't care if turns out is ugly... if you want a plastic surgeon to fix you... pay for it.

So if you suddenly find yourself out of job because of some Chinese takeover, have your health coverage discontinued and you get acute appendicitis, you deserve to die because you have no insurance? That is essentially what you are saying. Not all the people without insurance are at fault. Some do milk the system but a lot of people have no recourse.

The healthcare industry is a for profit industry and to that end each level tries to maximize that profit. The doctor, the pharmacists, the hospitals, the nursing homes, the equipment suppliers, the drug companies and all the middle men. That is the way it is set up. It is not set up to provide affordable care but to make a profit and as much as they can.

Not true in all cases. Many hospitals are non-profit or not-for-profit. Mine is non-profit.

 

[PredFan]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

You don't have a right to someone else's labor. End of story.

Oh, and Bernie Sanders is an admitted Socialist.

This is it right here. You can tell me thousands of stories about poor unfortunates, but it comes down to the FACT that no one has the right to a portion of anyone's life, and that is exactly what they are trying to lay claim to.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Around 150 years ago K to 12 education became not only a right, but mandatory in most states.

We accept that today. Taxes pay for 85% of it, allowing for private schools.

So, how can you have education mandatory, a right, and not something as essential as health care.

The right not to have it is one thing, but then what do you do about those who chose not to and then get their heads splattered open in a skiing accident? Is anyone hard enough to simply let him die?

 

[Meister]

Around 150 years ago K to 12 education became not only a right, but mandatory in most states.

We accept that today. Taxes pay for 85% of it, allowing for private schools.

So, how can you have education mandatory, a right, and not something as essential as health care.

The right not to have it is one thing, but then what do you do about those who chose not to and then get their heads splattered open in a skiing accident? Is anyone hard enough to simply let him die?

oh brother...not another skiing accident.

 

[syrenn]

Around 150 years ago K to 12 education became not only a right, but mandatory in most states.

We accept that today. Taxes pay for 85% of it, allowing for private schools.

So, how can you have education mandatory, a right, and not something as essential as health care.

The right not to have it is one thing, but then what do you do about those who chose not to and then get their heads splattered open in a skiing accident? Is anyone hard enough to simply let him die?

no one is saying it is not your right to have healthcare no one is denying you healthcare....

it is your right however, to pay for healthcare if you want healthcare.


and to answer your question.... i have no issues with letting people die.

 

[syrenn]

Around 150 years ago K to 12 education became not only a right, but mandatory in most states.

We accept that today. Taxes pay for 85% of it, allowing for private schools.

So, how can you have education mandatory, a right, and not something as essential as health care.

The right not to have it is one thing, but then what do you do about those who chose not to and then get their heads splattered open in a skiing accident? Is anyone hard enough to simply let him die?

oh brother...not another skiing accident.

I guess this falls under the saying.... shit happens and then you die.

 

[saveliberty]

Around 150 years ago K to 12 education became not only a right, but mandatory in most states.

We accept that today. Taxes pay for 85% of it, allowing for private schools.

So, how can you have education mandatory, a right, and not something as essential as health care.

The right not to have it is one thing, but then what do you do about those who chose not to and then get their heads splattered open in a skiing accident? Is anyone hard enough to simply let him die?

Why does your country's healthcare only provide full benefits if its in country? Education is not a right in the US, its a priviledge. You can also opt out in public education. I'm guessing you got to what, seventh grade?

 

[AmericanFirst]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

Health care is NOT a right, that is a big libtard LIE!!!