Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

Pure unsupportable garbage.

Something is a right if it is granted under the authority of the governing body.

All you've done ehre is whine about why you think the government should take over the health care system.

It is sloppy and ignorant to use this kind of argument in support of a right.
 
Around 150 years ago K to 12 education became not only a right, but mandatory in most states.

We accept that today. Taxes pay for 85% of it, allowing for private schools.

So, how can you have education mandatory, a right, and not something as essential as health care.

The right not to have it is one thing, but then what do you do about those who chose not to and then get their heads splattered open in a skiing accident? Is anyone hard enough to simply let him die?

Why does your country's healthcare only provide full benefits if its in country? Education is not a right in the US, its a priviledge. You can also opt out in public education. I'm guessing you got to what, seventh grade?

You would think food would be a right before health care.

Liberals: constant proof the evolution works in reverse.
 
Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

Pure unsupportable garbage.

Something is a right if it is granted under the authority of the governing body.

All you've done ehre is whine about why you think the government should take over the health care system.

It is sloppy and ignorant to use this kind of argument in support of a right.

Not if you're a socialist. :eusa_eh:
 
The right not to have it is one thing, but then what do you do about those who chose not to and then get their heads splattered open in a skiing accident? Is anyone hard enough to simply let him die?

Yes.

And the issue will soon become that when you can't afford or won't buy health insurance, the government won't let you ski.

If you take risks, you eat the consequences.
 
Good job gang.

You flattened this one before it got started !

Morons.......clean underwear is a right !
 
Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

You don't have a right to someone else's labor. End of story.

Oh, and Bernie Sanders is an admitted Socialist.

That is true. Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. But if it came down to it....rather than watch someone die....I would help them.

That is called charity when an individual steps forward with help. Nobody is against that.
 
If you've got acute appendicitus you go to any ER in the country and they admit you immediately and treat your condition. THEY HAVE TO BY LAW!!! You folks are astoundingly uneducated on this issue.

Maybe your preconceived notion of what 'us folks' believe is just off-kilter. You don't seem to be listening at all. I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't know that the ER will give service to non-paying customers... THAT'S the problem! Who pays for it? Answer: Paying customers via higher medical costs, ergo higher premiums!

Oldstyle said:
Our health care system needed reforms to make it more affordable...what we got was ObamaCare which ignored tort reform (gee, guess who the trial lawyers gave millions to?) and doesn't address the costs of illegals getting their health care through our ER's. So now my health care premiums have gone up because the insurance companies are raising their rates now before they're not allowed to next year. As with most things progressives touch...this has been a cluster you know what from the word go.

Tort reform is a fart in the wind next to the systemic problems with the system, and this has been shown repeatedly. The right to sue is a consumer protection, and why should bureaucrats be able to determine in a blanket fashion how much someone's life is worth?

Yeah, that was the story the trial lawyers were spinning. It's estimated that defensive practices by doctors adds 1.4 billion dollars to the cost of health care every year...costs that we pick up. So why WASN'T tort reform included in the health care reform act? Because the Democrats got paid off by the trial lawyers to the tune of 234 million dollars in the 2008 election cycle...that's why.

Just make sure that you know what it is that you're asking for. I've seen doctors kill more than a FEW patients.
 
You don't have a right to someone else's labor. End of story.

Oh, and Bernie Sanders is an admitted Socialist.

That is true. Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. But if it came down to it....rather than watch someone die....I would help them.

That is called charity when an individual steps forward with help. Nobody is against that.

Yes, but I have to have a doctor's orders. And if the doctor is a psychopath (like some of the people on this thread; not you) then there's only so much that I can do.
 
I would guess all your extra cash is going to charity then.

Right ?

No..."moron" (the only derogatory term you know, other than talking about your own underwear you wear inside-out starting on Wednesdays), it goes for my Copaxone injections ($3600/month-$80 because I have insurance) that I have to take daily-for multiple sclerosis, which I was diagnosed with last month. And for the sackful of medications that I have to otherwise take, at 36, to keep my disease from relapsing. I work full time with this horrible disease that slowly eats away at its patients.

My vision comes and goes. A month ago, I couldn't walk without a cane. And ,yeah, I still take time to do charity work. So you can keep your anoxic brain thoughts to yourself, if you're going to judge me, before you even know who the hell I am.

Some of you people are absolutely repulsive. ALL the hell it will take, is one little spill off that motorcycle, ATV, or any major traumatic injury. And even if you DO have health insurance (which I'm assuming that most of you are smart enough to have, otherwise you wouldn't call everyone else morons....and due to your complacency) most insurances, once your bill reaches $1million, you're OUT! Shit out of luck, and jolly-well fucked. So think about that the next time you want to run up a ramp on a dirt bike. If you don't have millions saved for your trauma surgery, weeks in the trauma or neuro icu, and then MONTHS in rehabilitation, which will easily equal $1 million. My advice to you is to show some humility. Or it may be YOU, who is shown the door.




Good job gang.

You flattened this one before it got started !

Morons.......clean underwear is a right !

Clean underwear? Doubt you have much personal experience with that, judging from your posts, and how they stink on this subject.

"Morons", eh? Don't be so hard on yourself. You have to love yourself before others will love you.
 
I'm growing my hair out for "Locks of Love", regularly buy "The Contributor" (homeless newspaper in my city), trying to help specialists understand my disease better, regularly give money to the homeless. Do I go on TV or announce it to the newspaper? NO! Why? Because the amount I contribute, is miniscule and unimportant.

For a year, I paid my mother's rent, and most of her bills.....LAST YEAR, as a matter of fact. So, yeah....most of my money has gone to charity. Your arrogance...jeez...I have to stop before I have to work overtime for veneers from grinding my teeth. Presumptuous creep.
 
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I just commented in another thread that I hate when the debate is framed as "Right v privelige," but let me play devils advocate here.

When Bill shatters his leg and doesn't have insurance and will die without care... Let him die?

Not if I had anything to do with it. I assume you feel likewise. I think most people would agree.

You know, I'll tell you what I hate. I hate simplistic dichotomies that present us with a false choice; here the idea that if the government isn't taking care of us, we'll die in an alley or something.



That is true. Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. But if it came down to it....rather than watch someone die....I would help them.

So would I. So would most people. So would pretty much all doctors. So why do we need a friggin mandate?
 
You would think food would be a right before health care.

Well, I think most of the people who think health care is a right would agree that food is as well. That's really where all this is headed, and we need to address it. Is being taken care of a right?
 
I just commented in another thread that I hate when the debate is framed as "Right v privelige," but let me play devils advocate here.

When Bill shatters his leg and doesn't have insurance and will die without care... Let him die?

Not if I had anything to do with it. I assume you feel likewise. I think most people would agree.

You know, I'll tell you what I hate. I hate simplistic dichotomies that present us with a false choice; here the idea that if the government isn't taking care of us, we'll die in an alley or something.

Nice try, but I ain't that guy. I'm making a valid point. A lot of the enlarged basal ganglias running around here just love to spout off about how everyone needs to pay for the services, but ignore the fact that unless you're actually going to deny them services, you've solved nothing. Medical costs will rise, and premiums will rise in kind, end of story.

Single payer is probably the best for 'Most' people within a system, but I stand by my assertion that an individual mandate is a good common ground.

Interesting how virtually everyone who so hates the concept are all people who claim not to be affected by it (Eg, already have insurance anyways). :eusa_eh:
 
It will take a lot of these people having to experience for themself a serious illness with HUGE hospital and medication bills, to fully feel the sting of the costs of healthcare.

I'm still trying to get over the: " I don't care if a baby dies", post. Have you ever watched a BABY TAKE ITS LAST BREATH? Have you ever walked into a house and found a woman's husband of 50 years stiff, and had to tell her that there's nothing you can do?

If you aren't in healthcare already (and I pray to God you aren't), it would do you some good to shadow a nurse and a physician for a few shifts.
 
Nice try, but I ain't that guy. I'm making a valid point. A lot of the enlarged basal ganglias running around here just love to spout off about how everyone needs to pay for the services, but ignore the fact that unless you're actually going to deny them services, you've solved nothing. Medical costs will rise, and premiums will rise in kind, end of story.

Single payer is probably the best for 'Most' people within a system, but I stand by my assertion that an individual mandate is a good common ground.

I'm still waiting for compelling stats showing that unpaid care is a major source of health care inflation. I haven't seen it yet. What I've seen is that most uninsured people do pay their bills, even if they don't have all of it up front. EMTALA only requires immediate emergency care, not long term life-sustaining services.

It's not lack of insurance that's making prices go up. If anything, it's the opposite. It's our national habit of over-insuring that's driving health care inflation. There is virtually no downward price pressure from health care consumer who are 'covered' by standard group plans. In fact, they have exactly the opposite incentive. Once their deductible is met, it's entirely in their interests to seek the best, and the most expensive care they can arrange.

That's what makes the mandate doubly damning. Not only is a blatant abuse of the consumers right to refuse to purchase products they don't want, it's actually doubling down a health care financing strategy that's a proven failure.

Interesting how virtually everyone who so hates the concept are all people who claim not to be affected by it (Eg, already have insurance anyways). :eusa_eh:

I'm always sort of fascinated by these kinds of comments. You often hear similar disparaging remarks about people who are opposed to heavily progressive taxes - even while they themselves aren't wealthy. Have you ever considered that some people don't view politics from a "what's-in-it-for-me" perspective? Some of us are genuinely worried about what kind of world these policy changes will create. What kind of legacy will we be leaving our children? What kind of debt? What will life be like under a caretaker government? Will there be any room left for people who value freedom as much as security?
 
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Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

Of course health care is a right. I'm not aware of anyone going to jail for receiving health care.

Just because you have the right to something, doesn't mean the rest of us have to pay for you.
 
Nice try, but I ain't that guy. I'm making a valid point. A lot of the enlarged basal ganglias running around here just love to spout off about how everyone needs to pay for the services, but ignore the fact that unless you're actually going to deny them services, you've solved nothing. Medical costs will rise, and premiums will rise in kind, end of story.

Single payer is probably the best for 'Most' people within a system, but I stand by my assertion that an individual mandate is a good common ground.

I'm still waiting for compelling stats showing that unpaid care is a major source of health care inflation. I haven't seen it yet. What I've seen is that most uninsured people do pay their bills, even if they don't have all of it up front. EMTALA only requires immediate emergency care, not long term life-sustaining services.

It's not lack of insurance that's making prices go up. If anything, it's the opposite. It's our national habit of over-insuring that's driving health care inflation. There is virtually no downward price pressure from health care consumer who are 'covered' by standard group plans. In fact, they have exactly the opposite incentive. Once their deductible is met, it's entirely in their interests to seek the best, and the most expensive care they can arrange.

That's what makes the mandate doubly damning. Not only is a blatant abuse of the consumers right to refuse to purchase products they don't want, it's actually doubling down a health care financing strategy that's a proven failure.

What do you consider a lot of money? Not long ago in this thread, Oldstyle complained that: It's estimated that defensive practices by doctors adds 1.4 billion dollars to the cost of health care every year...costs that we pick up.

Here's the link to the first article that came up when I googled "Unpaid hospital bills."
Up to $49 billion unpaid by uninsured for hospitalizations - USATODAY.com



Interesting how virtually everyone who so hates the concept are all people who claim not to be affected by it (Eg, already have insurance anyways). :eusa_eh:

I'm always sort of fascinated by these kinds of comments. You often hear similar disparaging remarks about people who are opposed to heavily progressive taxes - even while they themselves aren't wealthy. Have you ever considered that some people don't view politics from a "what's-in-it-for-me" perspective? Some of us are genuinely worried about what kind of world these policy changes will create. What kind of legacy will we be leaving our children? What kind of debt? What will life be like under a caretaker government? Will there be any room left for people who value freedom as much as security?

No. Everyone acts in their own rational self interests. You've been trained that puffing out your chest at such proposals is the manly, or gallant, or patriotic thing to do (Example: 'If you don't like it here move to Europe!' et al). Why some are so receptive to such training is beyond me.

And btw, you got a little dramatic at the end there. :rolleyes: You continue to engage me with this empathetic approach, but I'm a fan of logic.
 
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It will take a lot of these people having to experience for themself a serious illness with HUGE hospital and medication bills, to fully feel the sting of the costs of healthcare.

I'm still trying to get over the: " I don't care if a baby dies", post. Have you ever watched a BABY TAKE ITS LAST BREATH? Have you ever walked into a house and found a woman's husband of 50 years stiff, and had to tell her that there's nothing you can do?

If you aren't in healthcare already (and I pray to God you aren't), it would do you some good to shadow a nurse and a physician for a few shifts.

This thread is about health care being a right...or not.

You've made no argument whatsoever that it is a right. End of story.

Rights are universal entitlements. And this country has never done that in the area of health care. We fund medicare because (besides being stupid) it is a law. But, despite Lawrence O'Donnel's claim....it is not a right.

All you've done is rant against the health care system and it's costs. I don't see anyone disagree with you. That is one of the reasons you have shared risk in the form of insurance.

And I blame the GOP more than I blame the dems for the mess we are in. We have let it go to far and we have propped up the insurance industry.

Stories of what people face are heartbreaking. But your arguments are bunk.

Just like clearn underwear isn't a right.
 
Nice try, but I ain't that guy. I'm making a valid point. A lot of the enlarged basal ganglias running around here just love to spout off about how everyone needs to pay for the services, but ignore the fact that unless you're actually going to deny them services, you've solved nothing. Medical costs will rise, and premiums will rise in kind, end of story.

Single payer is probably the best for 'Most' people within a system, but I stand by my assertion that an individual mandate is a good common ground.

I'm still waiting for compelling stats showing that unpaid care is a major source of health care inflation. I haven't seen it yet. What I've seen is that most uninsured people do pay their bills, even if they don't have all of it up front. EMTALA only requires immediate emergency care, not long term life-sustaining services.

It's not lack of insurance that's making prices go up. If anything, it's the opposite. It's our national habit of over-insuring that's driving health care inflation. There is virtually no downward price pressure from health care consumer who are 'covered' by standard group plans. In fact, they have exactly the opposite incentive. Once their deductible is met, it's entirely in their interests to seek the best, and the most expensive care they can arrange.

That's what makes the mandate doubly damning. Not only is a blatant abuse of the consumers right to refuse to purchase products they don't want, it's actually doubling down a health care financing strategy that's a proven failure.

What do you consider a lot of money? Not long ago in this thread, Oldstyle complained that: It's estimated that defensive practices by doctors adds 1.4 billion dollars to the cost of health care every year...costs that we pick up.

Here's the link to the first article that came up when I googled "Unpaid hospital bills."
Up to $49 billion unpaid by uninsured for hospitalizations - USATODAY.com

You're confusing how much we spend with price inflation. They're not the same thing. We're a rich country, and each year we get richer. We also have a growing population. Naturally we're spend more on health care, including care for the indigent. But the real problem isn't the total amount spent, it's the fact that the prices for basic health care services are rising much faster than the general rate of inflation. THAT is the core problem with health care. And it's the problem that PPACA and the mandate totally will actually make worse.

No. Everyone acts in their own rational self interests. You've been trained that puffing out your chest at such proposals is the manly, or gallant, or patriotic thing to do (Example: 'If you don't like it here move to Europe!' et al). Why some are so receptive to such training is beyond me.

And btw, you got a little dramatic at the end there. :rolleyes: You continue to engage me with this empathetic approach, but I'm a fan of logic.

Sure, yeah. I was sent to a special 'teabagger' school as a child. I got an A in 'chest puffing'. ;)

Seriously though, why is perplexing to you that people would argue politics on principle (even if the policies in question aren't likely to immediately affect them)? Rational self-interest doesn't have to be short sighted.
 
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