Health Care (A simpler solution)

[Diuretic]

Remember in the day we had CHARITIES for this/ WHY does Government even have to be involved?

Or do you feel more comfortable to FORCE people to give it up?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Charities? What role should charities have?

Apparently YOU are a young PUP, and don't remember the time where services were rendered Pro Bono for the sake of charity. Now the Gubmint calls them "Not For Profits"...

And where does Government come off getting into this fray anyhow>?

Constitutionally? They (Gubmint), are OUT OF BOUNDS. They do all of this for the sake of Control over the rest of us, as to deprive us of Liberty...

Bollocks.

I asked what role charities should have.

 

[Soaring]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

Pretty much the same as medical savings accounts , which you can open now if you want and save money for medical care tax free. Still costs $600-$1200 a month for real health insurance . Something people making minimum wage or even $10 a hour simply cannot afford.

Let me guess darkwind ......... your a ron paul supporter ?

Am I right?

You people all sound alike . Kind of nonsensical and wishful.
No basis in reality.

Show me where it costs 600-1200 a month for real health insurance. You are full of chit.

 

[The T]

I will say this...ANY meaningful legislation WILL have to include TORT REFORM, to get the Vampire Ambulance Chasing Bloodsucking LAWYERS off the backs of Doctors, and the Insurance Companies...or for me? The Deal is OFF and I will spend every DIME I have to defeat the Statist goal...that happen to BE written BY...Blood-Sucking Lawyers...that are in it to make a buck.

 

[Old Rocks]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System
With the current debate concerning health care reform heating up, I want to share with you some thoughts on malpractice law suits and its role in the health care debade. The article was authored by the American Association for Justice of which I am a sustaining member.

Among the crowds gathering at health care town halls, there’s an undercurrent of anger by people who are relying on misinformation to halt any true reform. One of the common myths is that the only change our health care system really needs is tort reform. While some like to tout the perceived "success" of tort reform in their states, the evidence belies their assertion.

A recent Washington Independent article took issue with the push to promote tort reform as a health care panacea. The piece, entitled “Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs”, cites academics like Harvard’s Amitabh Chandra and University of Pennsylvania’s Tom Baker in arguing that tort reform is merely a distraction from what truly ails our current health care system. In fact, Michele Mello, a professor of Law and Public Health at Harvard, tells the Independent that “If you were to list the top five or ten things that you could do to bring down health care costs [tort reform] would not be on the list.” [Also see article in the Atlantic]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System: New York Brain Injury Lawyer - New York Brain Injury Attorney

 

[The T]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System
With the current debate concerning health care reform heating up, I want to share with you some thoughts on malpractice law suits and its role in the health care debade. The article was authored by the American Association for Justice of which I am a sustaining member.

Among the crowds gathering at health care town halls, there’s an undercurrent of anger by people who are relying on misinformation to halt any true reform. One of the common myths is that the only change our health care system really needs is tort reform. While some like to tout the perceived "success" of tort reform in their states, the evidence belies their assertion.

A recent Washington Independent article took issue with the push to promote tort reform as a health care panacea. The piece, entitled “Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs”, cites academics like Harvard’s Amitabh Chandra and University of Pennsylvania’s Tom Baker in arguing that tort reform is merely a distraction from what truly ails our current health care system. In fact, Michele Mello, a professor of Law and Public Health at Harvard, tells the Independent that “If you were to list the top five or ten things that you could do to bring down health care costs [tort reform] would not be on the list.” [Also see article in the Atlantic]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System: New York Brain Injury Lawyer - New York Brain Injury Attorney

Tort is PART of the Solution...the Largest problem is getting the Government Camel's NOSE out from under the tent and let the FREE MARKET handle it.

People will gravitate to the best deals...

And for those that don't have Insurance? It's your own FAULT. YOU are NOT entitled to it. It is a commodity, like anything else. You WANT good healthcare insurance? Then work your ASS off like the REST of us to get it...

Elevate yourself to get to where you want to be, instead of DRAGGING the rest of us down to your level of WHINING, and empowering the GOVERNMENT by the point of a GUN to take it From those of us that WORK HARD for it.

Enough said.

 

[Old Rocks]

Let's see. Every industrial nation on earth, save the US, has a national health care system. And almost all of them have much better results with their systems than we do. Longer lifespans, healthier old ages, and a much lower infant mortality rate. At 1/2 to 3/4 the cost that we pay per capita. And they cover all their citizens.

Are they really that much smarter than we are that they can do this and we cannot?

 

[garyd]

Yes rocks they do and every damn one of them is screaming bloody muderabout the cost of it, short changes their seniors, and has fewer doctors per capita than we do.

We've got plenty of bad examples to choose from and trial lawyers saying they aren't part of the problem is to be expected and an out and out lie.

 

[DiveCon]

Let's see. Every industrial nation on earth, save the US, has a national health care system. And almost all of them have much better results with their systems than we do. Longer lifespans, healthier old ages, and a much lower infant mortality rate. At 1/2 to 3/4 the cost that we pay per capita. And they cover all their citizens.

Are they really that much smarter than we are that they can do this and we cannot?

and dont those countries also exempt those doctors from law suits?

 

[PeterS]

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account.[/COLOR] And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

Huh? A few questions:

1) I can find in the constitution the authority to tax but where is the clause that grants government the authority to force me to save?

2) If I am currently happy with my health insurance am I still required to save? If so, then isn't this now a tax?

3) If I have sufficient wealth to already cover any medical expense am I still required to save and if so aren't you destroying jobs?

4) How do you cover the gap between insufficient savings and the average medical cost? If it is the individual then this is no different then we have now with the uninsured and under insured. How have you solved a problem by leaving it unchanged?

5) How are you lowering medical costs? You seem to be adding another layer that ties up even more dollars but basically does nothing more than we have now. This would mean that you have increased, not lowered, costs. How are even higher costs a solution to our problem?

 

[auditor0007]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System
With the current debate concerning health care reform heating up, I want to share with you some thoughts on malpractice law suits and its role in the health care debade. The article was authored by the American Association for Justice of which I am a sustaining member.

Among the crowds gathering at health care town halls, there’s an undercurrent of anger by people who are relying on misinformation to halt any true reform. One of the common myths is that the only change our health care system really needs is tort reform. While some like to tout the perceived "success" of tort reform in their states, the evidence belies their assertion.

A recent Washington Independent article took issue with the push to promote tort reform as a health care panacea. The piece, entitled “Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs”, cites academics like Harvard’s Amitabh Chandra and University of Pennsylvania’s Tom Baker in arguing that tort reform is merely a distraction from what truly ails our current health care system. In fact, Michele Mello, a professor of Law and Public Health at Harvard, tells the Independent that “If you were to list the top five or ten things that you could do to bring down health care costs [tort reform] would not be on the list.” [Also see article in the Atlantic]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System: New York Brain Injury Lawyer - New York Brain Injury Attorney

Tort is PART of the Solution...the Largest problem is getting the Government Camel's NOSE out from under the tent and let the FREE MARKET handle it.

People will gravitate to the best deals...

And for those that don't have Insurance? It's your own FAULT. YOU are NOT entitled to it. It is a commodity, like anything else. You WANT good healthcare insurance? Then work your ASS off like the REST of us to get it...

Elevate yourself to get to where you want to be, instead of DRAGGING the rest of us down to your level of WHINING, and empowering the GOVERNMENT by the point of a GUN to take it From those of us that WORK HARD for it.

Enough said.

Tell the person who gets cancer, loses his job and subsequently his insurance, that he should work harder, and if he doesn't it is his own fault. How about the person with a pre-existing condition that wants to go out on his own and work for himself. He can't get any insurance period, but that is his fault, right? You are an absolute idiot. I hope that one day you find yourself in this situation so you will understand how fucked up our current system is.

 

[DiveCon]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System
With the current debate concerning health care reform heating up, I want to share with you some thoughts on malpractice law suits and its role in the health care debade. The article was authored by the American Association for Justice of which I am a sustaining member.

Among the crowds gathering at health care town halls, there’s an undercurrent of anger by people who are relying on misinformation to halt any true reform. One of the common myths is that the only change our health care system really needs is tort reform. While some like to tout the perceived "success" of tort reform in their states, the evidence belies their assertion.

A recent Washington Independent article took issue with the push to promote tort reform as a health care panacea. The piece, entitled “Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs”, cites academics like Harvard’s Amitabh Chandra and University of Pennsylvania’s Tom Baker in arguing that tort reform is merely a distraction from what truly ails our current health care system. In fact, Michele Mello, a professor of Law and Public Health at Harvard, tells the Independent that “If you were to list the top five or ten things that you could do to bring down health care costs [tort reform] would not be on the list.” [Also see article in the Atlantic]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System: New York Brain Injury Lawyer - New York Brain Injury Attorney

Tort is PART of the Solution...the Largest problem is getting the Government Camel's NOSE out from under the tent and let the FREE MARKET handle it.

People will gravitate to the best deals...

And for those that don't have Insurance? It's your own FAULT. YOU are NOT entitled to it. It is a commodity, like anything else. You WANT good healthcare insurance? Then work your ASS off like the REST of us to get it...

Elevate yourself to get to where you want to be, instead of DRAGGING the rest of us down to your level of WHINING, and empowering the GOVERNMENT by the point of a GUN to take it From those of us that WORK HARD for it.

Enough said.

Tell the person who gets cancer, loses his job and subsequently his insurance, that he should work harder, and if he doesn't it is his own fault. How about the person with a pre-existing condition that wants to go out on his own and work for himself. He can't get any insurance period, but that is his fault, right? You are an absolute idiot. I hope that one day you find yourself in this situation so you will understand how fucked up our current system is.

but the solution to that isnt a total take over of the healthcare system by the government

 

[Diuretic]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System
With the current debate concerning health care reform heating up, I want to share with you some thoughts on malpractice law suits and its role in the health care debade. The article was authored by the American Association for Justice of which I am a sustaining member.

Among the crowds gathering at health care town halls, there’s an undercurrent of anger by people who are relying on misinformation to halt any true reform. One of the common myths is that the only change our health care system really needs is tort reform. While some like to tout the perceived "success" of tort reform in their states, the evidence belies their assertion.

A recent Washington Independent article took issue with the push to promote tort reform as a health care panacea. The piece, entitled “Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs”, cites academics like Harvard’s Amitabh Chandra and University of Pennsylvania’s Tom Baker in arguing that tort reform is merely a distraction from what truly ails our current health care system. In fact, Michele Mello, a professor of Law and Public Health at Harvard, tells the Independent that “If you were to list the top five or ten things that you could do to bring down health care costs [tort reform] would not be on the list.” [Also see article in the Atlantic]

Tort Reform No Cure For What Ails Our Health Care System: New York Brain Injury Lawyer - New York Brain Injury Attorney

Tort is PART of the Solution...the Largest problem is getting the Government Camel's NOSE out from under the tent and let the FREE MARKET handle it.

People will gravitate to the best deals...

And for those that don't have Insurance? It's your own FAULT. YOU are NOT entitled to it. It is a commodity, like anything else. You WANT good healthcare insurance? Then work your ASS off like the REST of us to get it...

Elevate yourself to get to where you want to be, instead of DRAGGING the rest of us down to your level of WHINING, and empowering the GOVERNMENT by the point of a GUN to take it From those of us that WORK HARD for it.

Enough said.

Ah, the 'fuck you, I've got mine' argument.

 

[Diuretic]

Yes rocks they do and every damn one of them is screaming bloody muderabout the cost of it, short changes their seniors, and has fewer doctors per capita than we do.

We've got plenty of bad examples to choose from and trial lawyers saying they aren't part of the problem is to be expected and an out and out lie.

 

[Diuretic]

Let's see. Every industrial nation on earth, save the US, has a national health care system. And almost all of them have much better results with their systems than we do. Longer lifespans, healthier old ages, and a much lower infant mortality rate. At 1/2 to 3/4 the cost that we pay per capita. And they cover all their citizens.

Are they really that much smarter than we are that they can do this and we cannot?

and dont those countries also exempt those doctors from law suits?

I know one that doesn't.

 

[DiveCon]

Let's see. Every industrial nation on earth, save the US, has a national health care system. And almost all of them have much better results with their systems than we do. Longer lifespans, healthier old ages, and a much lower infant mortality rate. At 1/2 to 3/4 the cost that we pay per capita. And they cover all their citizens.

Are they really that much smarter than we are that they can do this and we cannot?

and dont those countries also exempt those doctors from law suits?

I know one that doesn't.

oh?
do they limit the damages any?

 

[Emma]

Apparently YOU are a young PUP, and don't remember the time where services were rendered Pro Bono for the sake of charity. Now the Gubmint calls them "Not For Profits"...

And where does Government come off getting into this fray anyhow>?

Constitutionally? They (Gubmint), are OUT OF BOUNDS. They do all of this for the sake of Control over the rest of us, as to deprive us of Liberty...

Do you think charity would be able to take over what the government is doing now??

 

[Emma]

Let's see. Every industrial nation on earth, save the US, has a national health care system. And almost all of them have much better results with their systems than we do. Longer lifespans, healthier old ages, and a much lower infant mortality rate. At 1/2 to 3/4 the cost that we pay per capita. And they cover all their citizens.

Are they really that much smarter than we are that they can do this and we cannot?

and dont those countries also exempt those doctors from law suits?

I don't think that is such a wonderful idea, either.

 

[Diuretic]

and dont those countries also exempt those doctors from law suits?

I know one that doesn't.

oh?
do they limit the damages any?

Some states have limited damages payouts. They were duchessed by the insurance companies. Mine told them to get stuffed.

 

[auditor0007]

Tort is PART of the Solution...the Largest problem is getting the Government Camel's NOSE out from under the tent and let the FREE MARKET handle it.

People will gravitate to the best deals...

And for those that don't have Insurance? It's your own FAULT. YOU are NOT entitled to it. It is a commodity, like anything else. You WANT good healthcare insurance? Then work your ASS off like the REST of us to get it...

Elevate yourself to get to where you want to be, instead of DRAGGING the rest of us down to your level of WHINING, and empowering the GOVERNMENT by the point of a GUN to take it From those of us that WORK HARD for it.

Enough said.

Tell the person who gets cancer, loses his job and subsequently his insurance, that he should work harder, and if he doesn't it is his own fault. How about the person with a pre-existing condition that wants to go out on his own and work for himself. He can't get any insurance period, but that is his fault, right? You are an absolute idiot. I hope that one day you find yourself in this situation so you will understand how fucked up our current system is.

but the solution to that isnt a total take over of the healthcare system by the government

This may well be true, and I don't have an issue with those who want to discuss/argue over possible solutions. However, when someone tells me that anyone without insurance only has themself to blame...... well, then they are morons for not understanding how this current system works.

 

[editec]

Sounds like a great plan until you attempt to get the HC insurance companies to go alongg with it.

They'll tell you that they don't WANT to accept people with pre-existing conditions because they KNOW they're going to lose money on those clients.