Hard workers and those who live off their hard work.

[Vast LWC]

Why don't labor pools start the companies? I know some do, but it is rare. How come it's mostly a capital investment by an individual or perhaps a few and then the wage labor thinks they have some right to the business earnings? They don't. They have the right to receive the wage they signed onto through the employer/employee contract. that is all. They have no other right to any profit beyond that.

You may as well ask why the investors don't work on the line to support their investment?

The company makes a profit due to a combination of effort. Some monetary, some through labor.

Neither can work without the other.

What happens when a company decides to downsize its workforce and then make the employees work more to cover the deficit, while the investors reap the rewards? (which happens all the time nowadays)

What happens when a company starts cutting worker hours so that they can avoid paying health care costs that the employees had every expectation of receiving when they signed on, and the investors reap the rewards?

Finally, what happens when a vulture capitalist essentially steals 300+ million dollars worth of "restructuring fees" from Hostess, and then lets the company go bankrupt, defaulting on all the money that company owes in pension costs?

The investors DON'T have a right to profit from fucking their workers over. But that's what's been happening every single day in America, thanks to attitudes like you just expressed.

 

[ilia25]

I hold your head under water and cause you to drown.. glad you voluntarily inhaled the water causing your death

Wrong -- if I hold your head under the water you don't have a choice but to drown. If I point a gun to your head and demand your wallet, you do have a choice. You may still refuse to give it to me.

Thread killer.

And so I would be, if you geniuses weren't arguing the obvious.

 

[neomalthusian]

Why don't labor pools start the companies? I know some do, but it is rare. How come it's mostly a capital investment by an individual or perhaps a few and then the wage labor thinks they have some right to the business earnings? They don't. They have the right to receive the wage they signed onto through the employer/employee contract. that is all. They have no other right to any profit beyond that.

You may as well ask why the investors don't work on the line to support their investment?

The company makes a profit due to a combination of effort. Some monetary, some through labor.

Neither can work without the other.

What happens when a company decides to downsize its workforce and then make the employees work more to cover the deficit, while the investors reap the rewards? (which happens all the time nowadays)

What happens when a company starts cutting worker hours so that they can avoid paying health care costs that the employees had every expectation of receiving when they signed on, and the investors reap the rewards?

Job satisfaction declines and employee turnover increases? It costs more to replace and retrain workers? Tons of things happen.

Finally, what happens when a vulture capitalist essentially steals 300+ million dollars worth of "restructuring fees" from Hostess, and then lets the company go bankrupt, defaulting on all the money that company owes in pension costs?

Failed business practices lead to failed businesses. That's a good thing. We don't want failed business models to succeed. We want successful business models to succeed.

The investors DON'T have a right to profit from fucking their workers over.

Fucking workers over can lead to very negative consequences.

But that's what's been happening every single day in America, thanks to attitudes like you just expressed.

That's as much the fault of US consumers for deal-seeking, rewarding only the companies who've carved the most cost out of production. The US consumer rewards these practices, almost exclusively.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why don't labor pools start the companies? I know some do, but it is rare. How come it's mostly a capital investment by an individual or perhaps a few and then the wage labor thinks they have some right to the business earnings? They don't. They have the right to receive the wage they signed onto through the employer/employee contract. that is all. They have no other right to any profit beyond that.

You may as well ask why the investors don't work on the line to support their investment?

The company makes a profit due to a combination of effort. Some monetary, some through labor.

Neither can work without the other.

What happens when a company decides to downsize its workforce and then make the employees work more to cover the deficit, while the investors reap the rewards? (which happens all the time nowadays)

What happens when a company starts cutting worker hours so that they can avoid paying health care costs that the employees had every expectation of receiving when they signed on, and the investors reap the rewards?

Finally, what happens when a vulture capitalist essentially steals 300+ million dollars worth of "restructuring fees" from Hostess, and then lets the company go bankrupt, defaulting on all the money that company owes in pension costs?

The investors DON'T have a right to profit from fucking their workers over. But that's what's been happening every single day in America, thanks to attitudes like you just expressed.

Talk to former House Speaker Richard Gephardt (D-MO) about those fees

 

[TNHarley]

Why don't labor pools start the companies? I know some do, but it is rare. How come it's mostly a capital investment by an individual or perhaps a few and then the wage labor thinks they have some right to the business earnings? They don't. They have the right to receive the wage they signed onto through the employer/employee contract. that is all. They have no other right to any profit beyond that.

You may as well ask why the investors don't work on the line to support their investment?
You dont like jobs?
The company makes a profit due to a combination of effort. Some monetary, some through labor.
True
Neither can work without the other.
True
What happens when a company decides to downsize its workforce and then make the employees work more to cover the deficit, while the investors reap the rewards? (which happens all the time nowadays)
Overtime? My employer hates overtime. But in your scenario, that is the result
What happens when a company starts cutting worker hours so that they can avoid paying health care costs that the employees had every expectation of receiving when they signed on, and the investors reap the rewards?
They got to stay afloat. Ask obama that
Finally, what happens when a vulture capitalist essentially steals 300+ million dollars worth of "restructuring fees" from Hostess, and then lets the company go bankrupt, defaulting on all the money that company owes in pension costs?
Prison I wish
The investors DON'T have a right to profit from fucking their workers over. But that's what's been happening every single day in America, thanks to attitudes like you just expressed.

You may as well ask why the investors don't work on the line to support their investment?
You dont like jobs?
The company makes a profit due to a combination of effort. Some monetary, some through labor.
True
Neither can work without the other.
True
What happens when a company decides to downsize its workforce and then make the employees work more to cover the deficit, while the investors reap the rewards? (which happens all the time nowadays)
Overtime? My employer hates overtime. But in your scenario, that is the result
What happens when a company starts cutting worker hours so that they can avoid paying health care costs that the employees had every expectation of receiving when they signed on, and the investors reap the rewards?
They got to stay afloat. Ask obama that
Finally, what happens when a vulture capitalist essentially steals 300+ million dollars worth of "restructuring fees" from Hostess, and then lets the company go bankrupt, defaulting on all the money that company owes in pension costs?
Prison I wish
The investors DON'T have a right to profit from fucking their workers over. But that's what's been happening every single day in America, thanks to attitudes like you just expressed

 

[gallantwarrior]

Are you saying that everyone should try and start a business?

im saying everyone should take responsibility for themselves

Meaning those less talented and less lucky should live in misery?

Describe "living in misery", please.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Its not only about hard work, but right choices.............

A single mother of five from 4 different fathers probably wont be starting a business franchise anytime soon...................But deserves taxpayer assistance of course !!!

She deserves taxpayer assistance to live the same quality of life that the successful entrepreneur does. That is what's fair...

 

[gallantwarrior]

There was no suggestion Franchise owners and stock holders don't take risks.

There was no suggestion that Franchise owners don't work hard, some do, some don't.

The thread was in response to the constant comments and threads by callous conservatives that the poor and working poor are lazy and seeking government aid. Some are and some do, but many work more than one PT job earning minimum wage with no benefits.

Blaming those who may have made poor choices, or had no choices to make is what makes many of those who posted above callous individuals; the irony being many of those claim to be Christians.

One measure of whether a thread is spot on is by the response of those who have differing opinions. When the response is to attack me personally and not respond critically to the theme is gratifying.

If you are older than 18 and trying to work minimum wage jobs to support a family, you are FLAT OUT STUPID

If you have not advanced enough to have a skillset that can draw a salary higher than minimum wage, you are FLAT OUT STUPID or FLAT OUT LAZY

Who else are you gonna blame for poor choices?? Society?? The boogeyman??

I might add, if you have not achieved the ability to earn better than minimum wage, you should consider NOT starting a family you cannot afford to support. There are many who find the chore of supporting your ill-planned family repugnant.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Start your own restaurant.

Save your excess minimum wage earning and build up the $1 Million plus in liquid assets, in addition to the franchise fee and cost of building the structure that a McD's franchisee has to have.

Good fucking luck. (read: keeping people down and living hand to mouth and then saying they should VC their own enterprises, is not just woefully ignorant, it makes you a heartless fucking piece of shit.)

Try to be a better person. You might like yourself more. So there's that.

You have obviously never felt the sheer joy of pressing your jackbooted foot on the throat of some poor, innocent, helpless parasite, have you?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Meaning those less talented and less lucky should live in misery?

If they dont want to better themselves then yes.

I said "less talented and less lucky" -- should they live in misery?

If that is what they chose, yes. Absolutely. Only they are responsible for their "misery".

 

[gallantwarrior]

If they dont want to better themselves then yes.

I said "less talented and less lucky" -- should they live in misery?

I know what you said. Do i need to copy and paste for your ass? Do your shit for you?

That is apparently what is expected of successful business people...do the shit for all the unskilled minimum wage workers...

 

[gallantwarrior]

The freedom to succeed does not mean the freedom to become rich at the expense of others.

Expense of others?? Funny, it is the one earning a wage from the owners and investors that are the expense

What's really funny, are some people believing that the employee wages are a charity by the owner.

Not at all. The employees' wages are what the owner feels each job is worth. Each employee who holds a position has contracted with the owner to provide his labor and accepted that wage as a starting point.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I said "less talented and less lucky" -- should they live in misery?

I know what you said. Do i need to copy and paste for your ass? Do your shit for you?

I just wanted to check whether you are a fucking asshole.

Do you like checking assholes much?

 

[gallantwarrior]

What's really funny, are some people believing that the employee wages are a charity by the owner.

No.. it is a voluntarily negotiated contract

We've been there already. Everything you do, you do "voluntarily", including giving your wallet to an armed robber, or paying triple to a monopoly. It doesn't make it right, though.

Sorry, I don't consider handing over my wallet at the point of a weapon to be voluntary.
Really, where do you get your material?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

im saying everyone should take responsibility for themselves

Meaning those less talented and less lucky should live in misery?

Describe "living in misery", please.

It means not having all the things you have.

 

[gallantwarrior]

And how can you compare volunteering with working for money?

Where did he say that?

Read the whole fucking thread -- I was replying to an assertion that those working for money do it "voluntarily".

They do. They don't need to work for money. The don't need to work at all. They are quite welcome to starve in the street, or forage in the countryside, or whatever legal activity fills their belly. Hell, I'd offer them room and board for an honest day's labor. Ample food and a warm place to lay their head...not a bad trade for a days work shoveling shit.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Wry is an expert at living off the hard work of others

Yeah, but he/she/it already tucked tail and ran, leaving the others to a battle of the wits with no defense at all.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Why Is U.S. Minimum Wage Less Than Half What Australia Pays Their Workers?

 

[gallantwarrior]

not saying that a paid position is the same as a volunteer or non-compensated position

Then stop using the v word -- you are getting people confused and starting to quote dictionary definitions.

Working for money is no more volunteering that giving your wallet to a robber -- in other case you are simply choosing a more favorable -- to you -- outcome.

That is the basis of survival...choosing the outcome most favorable to your survival. You choose wrong, you lose. Duh!

 

[gallantwarrior]

Why don't labor pools start the companies? I know some do, but it is rare. How come it's mostly a capital investment by an individual or perhaps a few and then the wage labor thinks they have some right to the business earnings? They don't. They have the right to receive the wage they signed onto through the employer/employee contract. that is all. They have no other right to any profit beyond that.

You may as well ask why the investors don't work on the line to support their investment?

The company makes a profit due to a combination of effort. Some monetary, some through labor.

Neither can work without the other.

What happens when a company decides to downsize its workforce and then make the employees work more to cover the deficit, while the investors reap the rewards? (which happens all the time nowadays)

What happens when a company starts cutting worker hours so that they can avoid paying health care costs that the employees had every expectation of receiving when they signed on, and the investors reap the rewards?

Finally, what happens when a vulture capitalist essentially steals 300+ million dollars worth of "restructuring fees" from Hostess, and then lets the company go bankrupt, defaulting on all the money that company owes in pension costs?

The investors DON'T have a right to profit from fucking their workers over. But that's what's been happening every single day in America, thanks to attitudes like you just expressed.

You guys just don't get it, do you? If the investors act as parasites, eventually they kill the host...in this case, the workers who generate an profit. Most workers feel "fucked over" because some jerk, for whatever personal reason (greed, revenge, whatever) convinces them they are "fucked over". The weak-minded victims believe it and will help slaughter the golden goose. They will destroy their employer in order to get even with the shareholders...you know, cut off you nose to spite your face. Then, when they find they have no job, they cry a river and suck down taxpayer money to support their sorry asses.