CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[Mac1958]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

They don't want to. So, they avoid it.
.

We want to. We do. You and Skull refuse to acknowledge when we do. It's a YOU problem.

This particular discussion is a refutation of your claim that "pop culture" is responsible for gun violence.

I have been trying to get you people to address where 70% of all murders occur

And we have. In many of the OTHER threads where you bring that up.

The sad part is that you won't even say what you WANT to say about it. Your PC is stopping you.

Start a thread on the topic and tag me. I'll respond sometime today.

Idiot.

Fuck you

I'll bring up what the fuck I want where the fuck I want

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

 

[Humorme]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

 

[Skull Pilot]

They don't want to. So, they avoid it.
.

We want to. We do. You and Skull refuse to acknowledge when we do. It's a YOU problem.

This particular discussion is a refutation of your claim that "pop culture" is responsible for gun violence.

I have been trying to get you people to address where 70% of all murders occur

And we have. In many of the OTHER threads where you bring that up.

The sad part is that you won't even say what you WANT to say about it. Your PC is stopping you.

Start a thread on the topic and tag me. I'll respond sometime today.

Idiot.

Fuck you

I'll bring up what the fuck I want where the fuck I want

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

 

[LoneLaugher]

We want to. We do. You and Skull refuse to acknowledge when we do. It's a YOU problem.

This particular discussion is a refutation of your claim that "pop culture" is responsible for gun violence.

I have been trying to get you people to address where 70% of all murders occur

And we have. In many of the OTHER threads where you bring that up.

The sad part is that you won't even say what you WANT to say about it. Your PC is stopping you.

Start a thread on the topic and tag me. I'll respond sometime today.

Idiot.

Fuck you

I'll bring up what the fuck I want where the fuck I want

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have been trying to get you people to address where 70% of all murders occur

And we have. In many of the OTHER threads where you bring that up.

The sad part is that you won't even say what you WANT to say about it. Your PC is stopping you.

Start a thread on the topic and tag me. I'll respond sometime today.

Idiot.

Fuck you

I'll bring up what the fuck I want where the fuck I want

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

Not really

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have been trying to get you people to address where 70% of all murders occur

And we have. In many of the OTHER threads where you bring that up.

The sad part is that you won't even say what you WANT to say about it. Your PC is stopping you.

Start a thread on the topic and tag me. I'll respond sometime today.

Idiot.

Fuck you

I'll bring up what the fuck I want where the fuck I want

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

 

[Mac1958]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

I was concentrating on popular culture, but you make an important point - we could look beyond popular culture - internet, video games, violence in TV, movies, video games - to our culture in general. Drugs, dependence, lowered standards and expectations, absent parents, etc.

Our young people are being damaged by both, and for us to pretend that these various influences are not causing damage is denial in the extreme.

One of my daughters is a teacher, kindergarten. The stories she tells me about both the children and their parents (when they're there) are absolutely depressing. The children are so wild and uncontrollable that the school is having trouble keeping teachers. I could go and on with examples, but I suspect you get my drift.

Laws and regulations can be changed relatively quickly, but a sick culture is going to take time. We have a long way to go.
.

 

[Weatherman2020]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

In 1962 a simple prayer almost every kid in public school would recite for their teacher, parents and fellow students was removed.

 

[LoneLaugher]

And we have. In many of the OTHER threads where you bring that up.

The sad part is that you won't even say what you WANT to say about it. Your PC is stopping you.

Start a thread on the topic and tag me. I'll respond sometime today.

Idiot.

Fuck you

I'll bring up what the fuck I want where the fuck I want

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fuck you

I'll bring up what the fuck I want where the fuck I want

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

The subject of the thread is NOT gun violence

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

The subject of the thread is NOT gun violence

Sure it is. Don't be an ass.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fuck you

I'll bring up what the fuck I want where the fuck I want

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

Yes you can't look at the actual data or where it was gathered so you say the source is no good

I looked at the data and where it came from and I also double checked items using the crime data on this site

Crime Rates, Statistics and Crime Data for every Address in America - NeighborhoodScout

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

The subject of the thread is NOT gun violence

Sure it is. Don't be an ass.

Where in the title of the thread does it say "Gun violence"

here's a hint

nowhere

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yeah. That's what I thought. You don't want me to respond to your 70% issue when that's the subject of the thread.

You prefer to run around claiming that no libs want to discuss it. Typical.

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

Yes you can't look at the actual data or where it was gathered so you say the source is no good

I looked at the data and where it came from and I also double checked items using the crime data on this site

Crime Rates, Statistics and Crime Data for every Address in America - NeighborhoodScout

You insult my intelligence.

 

[Humorme]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

I was concentrating on popular culture, but you make an important point - we could look beyond popular culture - internet, video games, violence in TV, movies, video games - to our culture in general. Drugs, dependence, lowered standards and expectations, absent parents, etc.

Our young people are being damaged by both, and for us to pretend that these various influences are not causing damage is denial in the extreme.

One of my daughters is a teacher, kindergarten. The stories she tells me about both the children and their parents (when they're there) are absolutely depressing. The children are so wild and uncontrollable that the school is having trouble keeping teachers. I could go and on with examples, but I suspect you get my drift.

Laws and regulations can be changed relatively quickly, but a sick culture is going to take time. We have a long way to go.
.

What you say is right, but you're spending time trying to cut down weeds when you focus on firearms rather than the stuff we know is going on.

Among the items we KNOW, for a fact, are associated with mass shooters is an obsession with violent video games, movies, and one parent / dysfunctional families.

Part of solving the problem is admitting that we have a problem. And, at the end of the day, our government is the biggest problem, as they are the enablers... they may as well be the major drug dealer.

 

[Mac1958]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

I was concentrating on popular culture, but you make an important point - we could look beyond popular culture - internet, video games, violence in TV, movies, video games - to our culture in general. Drugs, dependence, lowered standards and expectations, absent parents, etc.

Our young people are being damaged by both, and for us to pretend that these various influences are not causing damage is denial in the extreme.

One of my daughters is a teacher, kindergarten. The stories she tells me about both the children and their parents (when they're there) are absolutely depressing. The children are so wild and uncontrollable that the school is having trouble keeping teachers. I could go and on with examples, but I suspect you get my drift.

Laws and regulations can be changed relatively quickly, but a sick culture is going to take time. We have a long way to go.
.

What you say is right, but you're spending time trying to cut down weeds when you focus on firearms rather than the stuff we know is going on.

Among the items we KNOW, for a fact, are associated with mass shooters is an obsession with violent video games, movies, and one parent / dysfunctional families.

Part of solving the problem is admitting that we have a problem. And, at the end of the day, our government is the biggest problem, as they are the enablers... they may as well be the major drug dealer.

I dunno, I look at a culture in decay as the root cause of most of our problems, our biggest threat. We're in a constant sprint to lower standards. The people we elect are merely a reflection of the decay. Our willingness to enable them are merely a symptom of the decay.
.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't feel like starting a thread

and I no one as yet has wanted to discuss it you included

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

Yes you can't look at the actual data or where it was gathered so you say the source is no good

I looked at the data and where it came from and I also double checked items using the crime data on this site

Crime Rates, Statistics and Crime Data for every Address in America - NeighborhoodScout

You insult my intelligence.

Gee that was easy

 

[Pop23]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

This single post needs to be read before Congress before any hearing that involves a discussion regarding gun control.

/thread

 

[LoneLaugher]

That is incorrect. You bring it up in every gun thread as a diversion. You've had people discuss it with you.

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

Yes you can't look at the actual data or where it was gathered so you say the source is no good

I looked at the data and where it came from and I also double checked items using the crime data on this site

Crime Rates, Statistics and Crime Data for every Address in America - NeighborhoodScout

You insult my intelligence.

Gee that was easy

You should have some respect for others and not lie so easily. You looked at nothing. This "report" was passed around RW news sources last year you saw it and it fit your preconceived notions about crime in America. You did not look at the data where it came from. You simply lied here.

Own it, at least. I'll forgive you.