Gun Debate Illustrates Two Different Americas

[francoHFW]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

Once again you are talking out of your ass.

There are many gun owners, and people who appreciate guns- who also believe that there can and should be reasonable restrictions on guns or gun ownership

Should we allow machine guns? Bump stocks? .50 sniper rifles? Armor piercing ammo?

But no one wants to talk about anything in the middle- one is always claiming that the other sides once to take all of their guns, and the other side is always claiming that the first side doesn't care about gun violence.

The majority of Americans want both the right to own guns and also want reasonable restrictions on the purchase and ownership of firearms and their accessories.

That is what neither side wants to talk about.

You said, "shall we allow machine guns? Bump-stocks? .50cal. sniper rifles? Armor piercing ammo? Please point out those individuals who actually own "machine-guns."
While bump-stocks have been in the news because of the action of the Las Vegas shooter and they are being banned, it was only that one violent act in which a bump-stock was used, thus one crime with a bump-stock versus the vast majority of murders are committed by criminals using cheap "pistols" purchased on the black-market. To date, NO .50cal. sniper rifle has been used in a single crime. They're large and cumbersome and very impractical for mass carnage. If you want to cause numerous deaths, it's cheaper and more practical to steal a car or truck and just run down pedestrians. One terrorist managed to kill 85 people in Nice, France, simply by running down pedestrians. Why he went to the trouble of renting the truck instead of stealing one, is what I don't get. A lot of people are under the mistaken belief that the green-tipped NATO 5.56 ammunition is "armor-piercing," it's not classified by the military as "armor-piercing." The military considers that ammunition to have better penetrating power than the standard 5.56 ammunition, but not armor-piercing.
Remember this, there are between 85 and 100 million private citizens "legally" owning over 300 million firearms. Millions of those lawful gun-owning citizens own semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines which hold a varied number of cartridges. They, like myself, are sportsmen at the ranges, aren't out committing crimes, have no intention of committing crimes and are no threat to you or those you love. The dangerous ones are the mentally unstable individuals who have managed to get their hands on a gun and the Islamists who believe every word in the Koran is the true word of some deity.
The 2nd Amendment wasn't designed for we sportsmen, nor was it designed for hunters. It was solely designed to provide a citizen defense for each state, should a tyrannical government become a threat and they meant not only a foreign tyrannical government, but also should our own government become tyrannical. The first thing the potentially tyrannical government institutes, as seen throughout history, is to disarm its populace so that they cannot fight back against oppressive/persecutory legislation.
The armament they envisioned for the citizens was for them to be similarly armed in small arms, as tyrannical government troops would be armed. Our populace complacently agreed to limiting access to fully automatic weapons, but not to strip us of arms that would be effective in a combat situation, should a foreign nation invade, or our nation attempt to disarm us and impose a tyrannical government such as communism or a theocracy.

All those Saturday Night Special murders and Inner City murders are blacks fighting over who gets to sell drugs to the whites. End the drug war and treat the victims. You idiots could not stop any army, absolute idiocy.

 

[francoHFW]

The country is more clearly divided by class and religion and region than guns. Its a nation of divided people.

I say it is Fox listeners Etc versus the real world.

 

[francoHFW]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

Once again you are talking out of your ass.

There are many gun owners, and people who appreciate guns- who also believe that there can and should be reasonable restrictions on guns or gun ownership

Should we allow machine guns? Bump stocks? .50 sniper rifles? Armor piercing ammo?

But no one wants to talk about anything in the middle- one is always claiming that the other sides once to take all of their guns, and the other side is always claiming that the first side doesn't care about gun violence.

The majority of Americans want both the right to own guns and also want reasonable restrictions on the purchase and ownership of firearms and their accessories.

That is what neither side wants to talk about.

You said, "shall we allow machine guns? Bump-stocks? .50cal. sniper rifles? Armor piercing ammo? Please point out those individuals who actually own "machine-guns."
While bump-stocks have been in the news because of the action of the Las Vegas shooter and they are being banned, it was only that one violent act in which a bump-stock was used, thus one crime with a bump-stock versus the vast majority of murders are committed by criminals using cheap "pistols" purchased on the black-market. To date, NO .50cal. sniper rifle has been used in a single crime. They're large and cumbersome and very impractical for mass carnage. If you want to cause numerous deaths, it's cheaper and more practical to steal a car or truck and just run down pedestrians. One terrorist managed to kill 85 people in Nice, France, simply by running down pedestrians. Why he went to the trouble of renting the truck instead of stealing one, is what I don't get. A lot of people are under the mistaken belief that the green-tipped NATO 5.56 ammunition is "armor-piercing," it's not classified by the military as "armor-piercing." The military considers that ammunition to have better penetrating power than the standard 5.56 ammunition, but not armor-piercing.
Remember this, there are between 85 and 100 million private citizens "legally" owning over 300 million firearms. Millions of those lawful gun-owning citizens own semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines which hold a varied number of cartridges. They, like myself, are sportsmen at the ranges, aren't out committing crimes, have no intention of committing crimes and are no threat to you or those you love. The dangerous ones are the mentally unstable individuals who have managed to get their hands on a gun and the Islamists who believe every word in the Koran is the true word of some deity.
The 2nd Amendment wasn't designed for we sportsmen, nor was it designed for hunters. It was solely designed to provide a citizen defense for each state, should a tyrannical government become a threat and they meant not only a foreign tyrannical government, but also should our own government become tyrannical. The first thing the potentially tyrannical government institutes, as seen throughout history, is to disarm its populace so that they cannot fight back against oppressive/persecutory legislation.
The armament they envisioned for the citizens was for them to be similarly armed in small arms, as tyrannical government troops would be armed. Our populace complacently agreed to limiting access to fully automatic weapons, but not to strip us of arms that would be effective in a combat situation, should a foreign nation invade, or our nation attempt to disarm us and impose a tyrannical government such as communism or a theocracy.

It is our army and our law that that protects us not you redneck idiots.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The country is more clearly divided by class and religion and region than guns. Its a nation of divided people.

Correct, but guns were added by the Democrats to divide us even more.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nobody will take my gun.

Ya know why?

I aiin't a nut.

 

[francoHFW]

Once again you are talking out of your ass.

There are many gun owners, and people who appreciate guns- who also believe that there can and should be reasonable restrictions on guns or gun ownership

Should we allow machine guns? Bump stocks? .50 sniper rifles? Armor piercing ammo?

But no one wants to talk about anything in the middle- one is always claiming that the other sides once to take all of their guns, and the other side is always claiming that the first side doesn't care about gun violence.

The majority of Americans want both the right to own guns and also want reasonable restrictions on the purchase and ownership of firearms and their accessories.

That is what neither side wants to talk about.

That's not it at all.

What we on the right realize is what the left's entire goal is, and in this topic, it's to disarm Americans.

Oh sure, they will say they only want "this" or they only want "that" but anybody who knows the Democrat party realizes they want it tall, it's just that they use their successful tactic of incrementalism to accomplish their ultimate goal.

So we on the right refuse to give them that first step. Why? Because we all know Democrats are never to be trusted. If we give them the first step, it will only be a year or two later they want another step, then another, then another.

and there
Is the real problem, brainwashed right wing dupes of the Pander to the rich NRA GOP. Owned and operated by the greedy idiot rich.

Why is it a problem? Again, we all know how Democrats are. We all know what they ultimately want. And if the NRA never existed, we gun owners would still feel the same way. How did the NRA get involved in this? The MSM and Democrat party dragged them in. They had nothing to do with the school shooting, nothing to do with creating laws in this country, and nothing to do with how gun owners feel and believe. The brainwashers brainwashed you into believing this is a NRA issue because they instructed you to believe it.

Ohio firearms bill sparks strong views | News, Sports, Jobs - Marietta Times

And any GOP representative who crosses
The NRA gets primaried out of power. By the NRA and its Goons. No one is against hunting rifles and shotguns. And handguns for a very few. And that was always enough until this NRA Dupe insanity.

The NRA and "the goons" don't vote in the primary--voters do.

Dupes like you, you mean. They just bring up us taking your guns, abortions, immigrants, and good candidates are out.
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nobody will take my gun.

Ya know why?

I aiin't a nut.

Correct. Nobody will take away your gun. And if you want to keep it that way, make sure Democrats never have leadership in this country again.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's not it at all.

What we on the right realize is what the left's entire goal is, and in this topic, it's to disarm Americans.

Oh sure, they will say they only want "this" or they only want "that" but anybody who knows the Democrat party realizes they want it tall, it's just that they use their successful tactic of incrementalism to accomplish their ultimate goal.

So we on the right refuse to give them that first step. Why? Because we all know Democrats are never to be trusted. If we give them the first step, it will only be a year or two later they want another step, then another, then another.

and there
Is the real problem, brainwashed right wing dupes of the Pander to the rich NRA GOP. Owned and operated by the greedy idiot rich.

Why is it a problem? Again, we all know how Democrats are. We all know what they ultimately want. And if the NRA never existed, we gun owners would still feel the same way. How did the NRA get involved in this? The MSM and Democrat party dragged them in. They had nothing to do with the school shooting, nothing to do with creating laws in this country, and nothing to do with how gun owners feel and believe. The brainwashers brainwashed you into believing this is a NRA issue because they instructed you to believe it.

Ohio firearms bill sparks strong views | News, Sports, Jobs - Marietta Times

And any GOP representative who crosses
The NRA gets primaried out of power. By the NRA and its Goons. No one is against hunting rifles and shotguns. And handguns for a very few. And that was always enough until this NRA Dupe insanity.

The NRA and "the goons" don't vote in the primary--voters do.

Dupes like you, you mean. They just bring up us taking your guns, abortions, immigrants, and good candidates are out.
.

They don't bring up anything you brainwashed fool. It's the people that Republicans are listening to, not the NRA or anybody else. Republicans believe in the US Constitution, and Republican representatives support our cause.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nobody will take my gun.

Ya know why?

I aiin't a nut.

Correct. Nobody will take away your gun. And if you want to keep it that way, make sure Democrats never have leadership in this country again.

Dummy. I'm now a Democratic party "operative". I spend every free moment working to get Democrats elected to office. From city council to US senator.

And I ain't worried about anyone coming for my gun.

 

[francoHFW]

and there
Is the real problem, brainwashed right wing dupes of the Pander to the rich NRA GOP. Owned and operated by the greedy idiot rich.

Why is it a problem? Again, we all know how Democrats are. We all know what they ultimately want. And if the NRA never existed, we gun owners would still feel the same way. How did the NRA get involved in this? The MSM and Democrat party dragged them in. They had nothing to do with the school shooting, nothing to do with creating laws in this country, and nothing to do with how gun owners feel and believe. The brainwashers brainwashed you into believing this is a NRA issue because they instructed you to believe it.

Ohio firearms bill sparks strong views | News, Sports, Jobs - Marietta Times

And any GOP representative who crosses
The NRA gets primaried out of power. By the NRA and its Goons. No one is against hunting rifles and shotguns. And handguns for a very few. And that was always enough until this NRA Dupe insanity.

The NRA and "the goons" don't vote in the primary--voters do.

Dupes like you, you mean. They just bring up us taking your guns, abortions, immigrants, and good candidates are out.
.

They don't bring up anything you brainwashed fool. It's the people that Republicans are listening to, not the NRA or anybody else. Republicans believe in the US Constitution, and Republican representatives support our cause.

And the people, that is the chumps, are listening to Fox and Rush and Heritage, that is, Mega Rich greedy idiot lying GOP billionaires.

 

[initforme]

Ray I was an NRA member for 30 some years. When I called and asked the person on the line where every last cent of my dues went they couldn't tell me. When I got testy the person didn't like it although its their job to listen. My guns are perfectly safe. I own several. I might add any self respecting hunter wouldn't step foot in the woods with an ar15. We would not permit the!m to step foot in our hunting camp nor would they be worthy of hunting with us.

 

[Rustic]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

Once again you are talking out of your ass.

There are many gun owners, and people who appreciate guns- who also believe that there can and should be reasonable restrictions on guns or gun ownership

Should we allow machine guns? Bump stocks? .50 sniper rifles? Armor piercing ammo?

But no one wants to talk about anything in the middle- one is always claiming that the other sides once to take all of their guns, and the other side is always claiming that the first side doesn't care about gun violence.

The majority of Americans want both the right to own guns and also want reasonable restrictions on the purchase and ownership of firearms and their accessories.

That is what neither side wants to talk about.

You know nothing of firearms

 

[Rustic]

Ray I was an NRA member for 30 some years. When I called and asked the person on the line where every last cent of my dues went they couldn't tell me. When I got testy the person didn't like it although its their job to listen. My guns are perfectly safe. I own several. I might add any self respecting hunter wouldn't step foot in the woods with an ar15. We would not permit the!m to step foot in our hunting camp nor would they be worthy of hunting with us.

Lol
You know nothing of firearms you spineless motherfucker

 

[Rustic]

The country is more clearly divided by class and religion and region than guns. Its a nation of divided people.

It is divided by rural and urban more than anything else. Frivolous gun laws have no place in rural America

 

[initforme]

I'll take my bolt action over any junk ar15. I am not against owning them but they would not be welcomed in our deer camp. If that makes me spineless then so be it. Been hunting with the same rifle for 30 years. Why the name calling? That's not very nice.

 

[initforme]

Its divided by socio economic class first....urban and rural a teeny bit.

 

[Yarddog]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

Well, said! when I was about 10 my uncle who was in Vietnam, took me out to the desert one day where we found a safe spot to practice shooting his M-1 rifle against a bare mountainside. Funny, it didnt corrupt me, make me want to seek violence, but rather it gave me a huge sense of caution and respect for what that thing could do. I went on to do other shooting later in life... never in the military, but it seemed just like a normal thing to do and like driving a car, you have to know where the red and green lights are or you kill people.

I've often thought that one of the things that made us so effective against nazi Germany and the Japanese in the 20th century was a large number of our guys we sent off to fight already knew how to shoot and hunt even before military training and probably at very early ages. I couldn't imagine how bad it would have ended if we had the same type of culture as the Europeans who produced the army of "blue" helmets... who don't know what action to take when people are being slaughtered. The same soft culture who let Hitler roll free...... yet to many of the elites in our country, that type of culture is superior to what we consider American.

 

[protectionist]

There never were two cultures until the NRA bought the GOP and all these psycho guns came on the market.

This post was refuted 3 hours ago, in Post # 13.

 

[protectionist]

The country is more clearly divided by class and religion and region than guns. Its a nation of divided people.

I don't know if I'd use the word "more". It's divided by a lot of things, but this thread is talking about one of those things (guns), not all of them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why is it a problem? Again, we all know how Democrats are. We all know what they ultimately want. And if the NRA never existed, we gun owners would still feel the same way. How did the NRA get involved in this? The MSM and Democrat party dragged them in. They had nothing to do with the school shooting, nothing to do with creating laws in this country, and nothing to do with how gun owners feel and believe. The brainwashers brainwashed you into believing this is a NRA issue because they instructed you to believe it.

Ohio firearms bill sparks strong views | News, Sports, Jobs - Marietta Times

And any GOP representative who crosses
The NRA gets primaried out of power. By the NRA and its Goons. No one is against hunting rifles and shotguns. And handguns for a very few. And that was always enough until this NRA Dupe insanity.

The NRA and "the goons" don't vote in the primary--voters do.

Dupes like you, you mean. They just bring up us taking your guns, abortions, immigrants, and good candidates are out.
.

They don't bring up anything you brainwashed fool. It's the people that Republicans are listening to, not the NRA or anybody else. Republicans believe in the US Constitution, and Republican representatives support our cause.

And the people, that is the chumps, are listening to Fox and Rush and Heritage, that is, Mega Rich greedy idiot lying GOP billionaires.

So do you have a point? What lying are you talking about? It seems that conservative outlets are the only place you find the truth. As for the rest........RUSSIA!