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I am 36 and the odds of us facing a tyrannical US government is about as likely as seeing a unicorn. To be honest I find that argument to be the least valid. Lets go with the unlikely scenario that the government does decide to take over, do you honestly think that the citizens would stand a chance against the military? Take the arsenal of your choosing and you still do not stand a chance, that time has come and gone. Hundreds of years ago, I understand the argument. Living in a place like Syria, I understand the argument... Living in the USA in 2016... Your freedom is better defended with your voice and your vote than it is with your gun. Many of you with this old school way of thinking need to get with the times... You would better support your cause with a stronger argument. In my opinionI'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.
Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...
Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.
View attachment 59771
Three of the first four posts supply your answer all in the same way: the old Slippery Slope fallacy.
Post 11, as is his wont, prefers the Strawman.
The "slippery slope" argument is the one that I do not understand. Why oppose something that makes sense in fear of possible future proposals that may or may not take away your rights? Why not do what is right now in an effort to help a big problem (even if it just helps a little) and fight proposals that impede your rights if/when they are proposed?
Two questions:
Are you college aged?
And do you understand that confiscation of weapons can and does sometimes leads to a tyrannical government?
Why would you take that chance when our government has taken a chunk of control in the form of gov run healthcare?
Next comes the cashless society where they can monitor your purchases.
You already cant go anywhere without being recorded or tracked on a toll road.
It's getting to be to close to 1984 for my taste...
I am 36 and the odds of us facing a tyrannical US government is about as likely as seeing a unicorn. To be honest I find that argument to be the least valid. Lets go with the unlikely scenario that the government does decide to take over, do you honestly think that the citizens would stand a chance against the military? Take the arsenal of your choosing and you still do not stand a chance, that time has come and gone. Hundreds of years ago, I understand the argument. Living in a place like Syria, I understand the argument... Living in the USA in 2016... Your freedom is better defended with your voice and your vote than it is with your gun. Many of you with this old school way of thinking need to get with the times... You would better support your cause with a stronger argument. In my opinionI'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.
Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...
Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.
View attachment 59771
Three of the first four posts supply your answer all in the same way: the old Slippery Slope fallacy.
Post 11, as is his wont, prefers the Strawman.
The "slippery slope" argument is the one that I do not understand. Why oppose something that makes sense in fear of possible future proposals that may or may not take away your rights? Why not do what is right now in an effort to help a big problem (even if it just helps a little) and fight proposals that impede your rights if/when they are proposed?
Two questions:
Are you college aged?
And do you understand that confiscation of weapons can and does sometimes leads to a tyrannical government?
Why would you take that chance when our government has taken a chunk of control in the form of gov run healthcare?
Next comes the cashless society where they can monitor your purchases.
You already cant go anywhere without being recorded or tracked on a toll road.
It's getting to be to close to 1984 for my taste...
Only a paranoid fanatic is preparing for the next civil war. I hope you got your bunker fully stocked, because as you stock your arsenal preparing for the war that will never come, the majority of us are trying to do things that actually make a difference.Only a blithering idiot would think that all military personnel would back a socialist asshole as commander-in-chief and go against the people.I am 36 and the odds of us facing a tyrannical US government is about as likely as seeing a unicorn. To be honest I find that argument to be the least valid. Lets go with the unlikely scenario that the government does decide to take over, do you honestly think that the citizens would stand a chance against the military? Take the arsenal of your choosing and you still do not stand a chance, that time has come and gone. Hundreds of years ago, I understand the argument. Living in a place like Syria, I understand the argument... Living in the USA in 2016... Your freedom is better defended with your voice and your vote than it is with your gun. Many of you with this old school way of thinking need to get with the times... You would better support your cause with a stronger argument. In my opinionThree of the first four posts supply your answer all in the same way: the old Slippery Slope fallacy.
Post 11, as is his wont, prefers the Strawman.
The "slippery slope" argument is the one that I do not understand. Why oppose something that makes sense in fear of possible future proposals that may or may not take away your rights? Why not do what is right now in an effort to help a big problem (even if it just helps a little) and fight proposals that impede your rights if/when they are proposed?
Two questions:
Are you college aged?
And do you understand that confiscation of weapons can and does sometimes leads to a tyrannical government?
Why would you take that chance when our government has taken a chunk of control in the form of gov run healthcare?
Next comes the cashless society where they can monitor your purchases.
You already cant go anywhere without being recorded or tracked on a toll road.
It's getting to be to close to 1984 for my taste...
Now go hide
What is with all the references to the war on drugs?? I don't see the relation, that is a completely different subject.
"Gun Control - What's the Problem?"
Problems, actually.
Such as many on the right who are ignorance of Second Amendment jurisprudence, who refuse to accept the fact that the Second Amendment right is not absolute, and conservatives who contrive and propagate ridiculous lies about 'gun confiscation.'
None of congress' enumerated powers would permit them to enact a law criminalizing gun acquisition or possession.
Only a paranoid fanatic is preparing for the next civil war. I hope you got your bunker fully stocked, because as you stock your arsenal preparing for the war that will never come, the majority of us are trying to do things that actually make a difference.Only a blithering idiot would think that all military personnel would back a socialist asshole as commander-in-chief and go against the people.I am 36 and the odds of us facing a tyrannical US government is about as likely as seeing a unicorn. To be honest I find that argument to be the least valid. Lets go with the unlikely scenario that the government does decide to take over, do you honestly think that the citizens would stand a chance against the military? Take the arsenal of your choosing and you still do not stand a chance, that time has come and gone. Hundreds of years ago, I understand the argument. Living in a place like Syria, I understand the argument... Living in the USA in 2016... Your freedom is better defended with your voice and your vote than it is with your gun. Many of you with this old school way of thinking need to get with the times... You would better support your cause with a stronger argument. In my opinionTwo questions:
Are you college aged?
And do you understand that confiscation of weapons can and does sometimes leads to a tyrannical government?
Why would you take that chance when our government has taken a chunk of control in the form of gov run healthcare?
Next comes the cashless society where they can monitor your purchases.
You already cant go anywhere without being recorded or tracked on a toll road.
It's getting to be to close to 1984 for my taste...
Now go hide
What is with all the references to the war on drugs?? I don't see the relation, that is a completely different subject.
No, not really. Recreational narcotics have been against the law as long as I've been alive. Yet the people that want drugs get them. That's the relationship.
It's the same way with guns. If Democrats had their dream which is to make all guns illegal, then only the criminal and police would have guns because the criminals are not about to give their guns up.
Thanks for posting an intelligent argument and not just calling the Pres an asshat. I see the relationship between drugs and guns that you are talking about but the big difference is drugs are illegal and guns are not. When it comes to prescription meds there are ton of hoops you have jump through to get those, like seeing a doctor and getting a prescription. I just don't agree that Dems only want cops and criminals to have guns and even if that is the desire of some, that is not a realistic possibility and I don't see anybody rational leader proposing that. The measures that have been put on the table all make sense, but yet the pro-gunners fight tooth and nail against an invisible agenda of what they think will come in the future. If it is just about the issues proposed i'd think any responsible person, especially gun owners would support them. If not then please explain how they are harming your rights. I'm talking about closing the gun show loophole, improving background checks and the database etc...
I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.
Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...
Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.
View attachment 59771
Gun culture in this country has gotten pretty far out there... its got me shaking my head and i'm a gun owner,. #embarrassing
1min 40sec
Guns for sale - inside an American gun show - BBC News
You guys are still missing the whole point... Nobody is arguing that you can't have a gun!!!! You are defending that position but nobody is trying to take that away. Show me the legislation proposing that... There is none.
You say that making improvements to the purchase process won't prevent criminals from getting guns but you still don't explain why you think it is a bad idea???? Why are you fighting against actions that intend on securing that only responsible individuals are able to buy guns????
You guys are still missing the whole point... Nobody is arguing that you can't have a gun!!!! You are defending that position but nobody is trying to take that away. Show me the legislation proposing that... There is none.
You say that making improvements to the purchase process won't prevent criminals from getting guns but you still don't explain why you think it is a bad idea???? Why are you fighting against actions that intend on securing that only responsible individuals are able to buy guns????
Why are you fighting against actions that intend on securing that only responsible individuals are able to buy guns???
So? No gangbangers are buying overpriced firearms at gun shows. In How many of these killing do the firearms come from gun shows??
This is an nonissue...
The only way to avoid a background check is to buy from a private seller. Gunshow or not. The claim of a "gunshow loophole" is a blatant lie told by the anti-liberty left in their pursuit to end civil rights.
Centinel, Please elaborate... Because Congress can not make it illegal it is a bad idea? That doesn't make sense.
Correct. If congress enacts laws for which it has no constitutional authority, then that's a bad idea.
I agree with that statement Centinel, but it is also a question of interpretation. As the 2nd allows us the right to bare arms it certainly does not say without regulation or restriction. It is a privilege and a huge responsibility to own a gun and it is up to us to decide who and how we allow to have one, especially in a society that has shown continued abuse and recklessness which has resulted in many deaths. Much like driving a car, we must be of age and pass a test verifying that we are responsible enough to handle that privilege. There are many auto deaths a year and we are continuously working to make that system as safe as possible. I'd hope for a similar effort with guns but there is so much resistance.
So? No gangbangers are buying overpriced firearms at gun shows. In How many of these killing do the firearms come from gun shows??
This is an nonissue...
The only way to avoid a background check is to buy from a private seller. Gunshow or not. The claim of a "gunshow loophole" is a blatant lie told by the anti-liberty left in their pursuit to end civil rights.
You can watch it straight from the horses mouth in the BBC news piece I posted earlier... I know its hard to take a break from Fox but i promise everything will be ok... Hannity will still be on later tonight.
Are you stupid in the head??Centinel, Please elaborate... Because Congress can not make it illegal it is a bad idea? That doesn't make sense.
Correct. If congress enacts laws for which it has no constitutional authority, then that's a bad idea.
I agree with that statement Centinel, but it is also a question of interpretation. As the 2nd allows us the right to bare arms it certainly does not say without regulation or restriction. It is a privilege and a huge responsibility to own a gun and it is up to us to decide who and how we allow to have one, especially in a society that has shown continued abuse and recklessness which has resulted in many deaths. Much like driving a car, we must be of age and pass a test verifying that we are responsible enough to handle that privilege. There are many auto deaths a year and we are continuously working to make that system as safe as possible. I'd hope for a similar effort with guns but there is so much resistance.
No one has an right to a car.
Firearms are an right.
Firearms are an right? Ok genius... So you do think a 5 year old has the right to take a gun to school? Do you think an ex-con fresh out of jail should be able to stroll into a gun store and buy a gun? How about the mentally disturbed? If you have any brain you'd say no to these loaded examples, but it validates the point that there are limits and restrictions that should be put in place. Now if you said yes to any of those examples i'd love to hear your rationale
You guys are still missing the whole point... Nobody is arguing that you can't have a gun!!!! You are defending that position but nobody is trying to take that away. Show me the legislation proposing that... There is none.
You say that making improvements to the purchase process won't prevent criminals from getting guns but you still don't explain why you think it is a bad idea???? Why are you fighting against actions that intend on securing that only responsible individuals are able to buy guns????
Other than circumvent congress, what did Obama's recent executive actions do that will prevent future shootings like the ones he cited as his call to action? What will they do to prevent guns from getting into the hands of criminals?
Oh yeah... NOTHING.
So while I have no problem with the effects these executive orders will have, I take issue with his use of the executive orders to circumvent congress on this issue.
If I were a cynic, I'd think this was just a foot in a door President Obama hopes to pry open with more executive orders, more circumventing congress...
I feel like you all are reading from the same talking points and are fighting this invisible ghost agenda. How can we make progress without a first step. You said you have no problems with the effects of the executive actions and I think many would agree if they took them at face value. So my question is why can't we just take them at face value and if that horrible follow up occurs where your rights are violated and your guns are trying to be taken away then state your objections. The way the Pro-Gunners act now just adds more fuel to the fire and creates more polarity. Its the same reason why things are at a standstill in Washington. People would rather fight, argue and banter than work together and create change.
So my question is why can't we just take them at face value and if that horrible follow up occurs where your rights are violated and your guns are trying to be taken away then state your objections.
Boy, 8, Accidentally Kills Self at Gun Show
Man Shot, Killed Outside Cedar Park Gun Show
Five Injured After Firearms Go Off In Ohio, NC, Indiana Gun Shows
Woman Shot at Gun Show in Bloomsburg
Pastor Shot Dead by Son-In-Law Outside Gun Show in Tragic Sunday Accident
---- What exactly does the word "ZERO" mean on your planet, Sparkles?
I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.
Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...
Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.
View attachment 59771
Three of the first four posts supply your answer all in the same way: the old Slippery Slope fallacy.
Post 11, as is his wont, prefers the Strawman.
The "slippery slope" argument is the one that I do not understand. Why oppose something that makes sense in fear of possible future proposals that may or may not take away your rights? Why not do what is right now in an effort to help a big problem (even if it just helps a little) and fight proposals that impede your rights if/when they are proposed?
because this is not the first time people have demanded registration of guns to keep people safe......it happened in Germany, Britain and Australia....the most prominent and known examples...then years later...they banned and confiscated all guns.
This is not made up, it has actually happened......
and in the worst case scenario...12 million people were sent to the gas chambers when Europe was disarmed.
You guys are still missing the whole point... Nobody is arguing that you can't have a gun!!!! You are defending that position but nobody is trying to take that away. Show me the legislation proposing that... There is none.
You say that making improvements to the purchase process won't prevent criminals from getting guns but you still don't explain why you think it is a bad idea???? Why are you fighting against actions that intend on securing that only responsible individuals are able to buy guns????
They're doing that because their attachment is on a purely emotional level. It's because what they're dealing with is, after all, a fetish. And not at all unlike the baby who cries when his pacifier's taken away, they bawl on the internet. The only difference is they're bawling before it happens, because they're old enough to have learned not only the fetishism, but the paranoia to go with it.
I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.
Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...
Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.
View attachment 59771
