Greece Collapsing Under Weight of Massive Welfare

[The Rabbi]

Greece was a bad credit risk. All the money markets had cut it off. Then Goldman Sachs opened their bar.

Simple as that.

And they did that, why? Because Goldman Sachs is in the business of losing money? Think, nincompoop, think!

 

[The Rabbi]

Greece could have defaulted between 2009-2010, got good terms from creditors

Nice fantasy, except those creditors steadfastly refused to take a haircut. By the time the creditors were willing to accept a haircut, the debt had snowballed past the point of no return.

They were expecting the IMF and the governments to bail them out. Which in fact happened. Most of the debt is owed to those folks.

 

[g5000]

A lot of Greece's debt was also hidden, with the able aid of Goldman Sachs. The government was punitive toward anyone in Greece who tried to expose the true extent of the debt. Actually jailed them.

So it is pretty fucking hard for the EU to "restructure" when the banks and the government are colluding to hide the extent of the problem.

 

[g5000]

Greece could have defaulted between 2009-2010, got good terms from creditors

Nice fantasy, except those creditors steadfastly refused to take a haircut. By the time the creditors were willing to accept a haircut, the debt had snowballed past the point of no return.

They were expecting the IMF and the governments to bail them out. Which in fact happened. Most of the debt is owed to those folks.

That debt was originally owed to banks and the financial sector. As I have said several times, investors.

The IMG and the governments bailed out the banks and now the taxpayers of those countries are left holding the bag. Greek debt was passed from the private sector to the public sector. The private investors win again.

But you think that's okay.

 

[The Rabbi]

A lot of Greece's debt was also hidden, with the able aid of Goldman Sachs. The government was punitive toward anyone in Greece who tried to expose the true extent of the debt. Actually jailed them.

So it is pretty fucking hard for the EU to "restructure" when the banks and the government are colluding to hide the extent of the problem.

The Greeks outright lied to the EU about their financial condition, claiming they were meeting austerity goals and debt to GDP guidelines, when in fact they were cooking the books.
Banks had little to do with that.

 

[The Rabbi]

Greece could have defaulted between 2009-2010, got good terms from creditors

Nice fantasy, except those creditors steadfastly refused to take a haircut. By the time the creditors were willing to accept a haircut, the debt had snowballed past the point of no return.

They were expecting the IMF and the governments to bail them out. Which in fact happened. Most of the debt is owed to those folks.

That debt was originally owed to banks and the financial sector. As I have said several times, investors.

The IMG and the governments bailed out the banks and now the taxpayers of those countries are left holding the bag.

Yup. Aint Socialism grand?

 

[g5000]

1) European banks were bailed out, not the people of Greece
It is not the people of Greece who have benefitted from bailout loans from the IMF, EU and European Central Bank, but the European and Greek banks which recklessly lent money to the Greek State in the first place.

When the IMF, European and ECB bailouts began in 2010, €310 billion had been lent to the Greek government by reckless banks and the wider European financial sector. Since then, the ‘Troika’ of the IMF, EU and European Central Bank have lent €252 billion to the Greek government.[1] Of this, €34.5 billion of the bailout money was used to pay for various ‘sweeteners’ to get the private sector to accept the 2012 debt restructuring. €48.2 billion wasused to bailout Greek banks following the restructuring, which did not discriminate between Greek and foreign private lenders. €149.2 billion has been spent on paying the original debts and interest from reckless lenders. This means less than 10% of the money has reached the people of Greece.

Today the Greek government debt is still €317 billion. However, now €247.8 billion – 78% of the debt – is owed to the ‘Troika’ of the IMF, European Union and European Central Bank, ie, public institutions primarily in the EU but also across the world. The bailouts have been for the European financial sector, whilst passing the debt from being owed to the private sector, to the public sector.

Six key points about Greece s debt - Jubilee Debt Campaign UK

 

[g5000]

A lot of Greece's debt was also hidden, with the able aid of Goldman Sachs. The government was punitive toward anyone in Greece who tried to expose the true extent of the debt. Actually jailed them.

So it is pretty fucking hard for the EU to "restructure" when the banks and the government are colluding to hide the extent of the problem.

The Greeks outright lied to the EU about their financial condition, claiming they were meeting austerity goals and debt to GDP guidelines, when in fact they were cooking the books.
Banks had little to do with that.

Read the links I provided earlier. The banks had EVERYTHING to do with cooking the books.

 

[g5000]

Greece was a bad credit risk. All the money markets had cut it off. Then Goldman Sachs opened their bar.

Simple as that.

And they did that, why? Because Goldman Sachs is in the business of losing money? Think, nincompoop, think!

Because they could count on being bailed out. And they were.

Think, retard, think!

Regardless if an investor makes any money, or loses money, the middleman ALWAYS makes money. Especially with the use of derivatives to transfer all the risk to the rubes.

I can't believe how ignorant you people are of how the world financial system operates.

 

[hipeter924]

Greece could have defaulted between 2009-2010, got good terms from creditors

Nice fantasy, except those creditors steadfastly refused to take a haircut.

Not a fantasy but fact. Back then Europe was much more prepared to negotiate when the Eurozone was unprepared for a Greek exit, and there were a lot of outstanding liabilities. Now that sort of issue is over, so the creditors are not going to bother to negotiate, as Greece (whether truthful the claim is or not) failed to deliver on the terms of the bailout, and have reneged on their prior agreement. The IMF, World Bank and ECB are not charities.

An orderly default in 2009-2010 would have meant that Greece would have been able to leave the Eurozone, with some support and assistance; also they could have avoided austerity entirely if they so wished, or alternatively pursued their own austerity policies.

So instead of just defaulting in 2015 into a chaotic situation, they could have defaulted early, fixed their issues, and by 2015 be making an effort to one day return to the Eurozone.

You are the one fantasizing, if you believed that Greece ever had a viable chance of repaying its debt without a default.

 

[g5000]

Greece could have defaulted between 2009-2010, got good terms from creditors

Nice fantasy, except those creditors steadfastly refused to take a haircut. By the time the creditors were willing to accept a haircut, the debt had snowballed past the point of no return.

They were expecting the IMF and the governments to bail them out. Which in fact happened. Most of the debt is owed to those folks.

That debt was originally owed to banks and the financial sector. As I have said several times, investors.

The IMG and the governments bailed out the banks and now the taxpayers of those countries are left holding the bag.

Yup. Aint Socialism grand?

Ah! You are finally beginning to see it isn't capitalism the banks are doing! Well done. You get a gold star.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

What happens when more people depend on government spending than the number who contribute? Well, you realize what happens when leftist politicians take you on an unsustainable course. Since you always run out of other peoples' money, the only end is that eventually you will collapse under your own weight.

Instead of making needed cuts in spending and making the necessary changes to recover, they will now have nothing.

I see no difference in the policies the Dems are embracing here. Are they wanting us to collapse or are they so ignorant that they think they can do the same thing that's been done before and have a different outcome for once?

Politics Under weight of massive welfare state Greece about to default on IMF loans Best of Cain

Greece will pull the EU down, possibly trigger a depression there, that will, more than likely come here.

since everyone saw it coming or was told it was coming, I have to assume this was the plan.

No party would intentionally crush it's own country unless that was the plan.

are we looking at a government take over?
the UN running everything?

I used to laugh at people that talked about the "new world order", now, not so much

Stopped laughing about seven years ago myself.
To many hinky things going on for them all to be coincidence.

 

[g5000]

I arrange a loan to a horrible borrower, and get a fee. I immediately pass the paper for that loan to a sucker. The risk is out of my hands, and now I have more cash to make more bad loans, and make more fees. All the while, all that bad debt is getting passed on to rube private investors who buy into my hocus-pocus marketing gibberish. I even convince the ratings agencies that toxic debt is AAA gold! MWA-HA-HA-HA!

The day of reckoning will come when it is time to revolve all that bad credit, and the house will crash down. But don't worry, the government will rescue the rich investors, and the public will assume all that toxic debt. Yay capitalism! Nothing wrong here!

Even better, the very public I just fucked up the ass will say...get this... I was forced to make those bad loans! You will never never never hear ME say it, but THEY will. BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Oh my god, it's so unfuckinglybelievably good to be in this life.

 

[Toro]

Just like with the housing bubble, the banks used derivatives to transfer risk from bad borrowers to rube lenders.

Exactly the same model. Exactly.

Without those tools, and the banks helping them, there is no way Greece could have possibly gotten its hands on all that money. They were a subprime borrower! They had shitty credit!

Figure it out, tards.

Greece called up Wall Street and said "Find a way for us to hide our debts. We want to lie about our indebtedness."

 

[Toro]

I arrange a loan to a horrible borrower, and get a fee. I immediately pass the paper for that loan to a sucker. The risk is out of my hands, and now I have more cash to make more bad loans, and make more fees. All the while, all that bad debt is getting passed on to rube private investors who buy into my hocus-pocus marketing gibberish. I even convince the ratings agencies that toxic debt is AAA gold! MWA-HA-HA-HA!

The day of reckoning will come when it is time to revolve all that bad credit, and the house will crash down. But don't worry, the government will rescue the rich investors, and the public will assume all that toxic debt. Yay capitalism! Nothing wrong here!

Even better, the very public I just fucked up the ass will say...get this... I was forced to make those bad loans! You will never never never hear ME say it, but THEY will. BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Oh my god, it's so unfuckinglybelievably good to be in this life.

If you call a hit man and say "I want to kill XXX," who is more at fault for the murder?

 

[Toro]

The USA is doing exactly what Greece did, but on a larger scale so it will take longer to crash.

We are 18 trillion in debt, the govt is borrowing 40% of every dollar is spends. this is fiscal lunacy, and no G5000 it was not caused by the stock market, it was caused by incompetent government policies.

They aren't the same. Not even close.

The US prints its own currency. Greece does not.

Greece should not, nor should they ever have been in the eurozone.

 

[Toro]

I'm sorry. You're telling us that the bank did what, coerced, blackmailed, forced, threatened, cajoled, what? What did these big banks do to FORCE these unsuspecting government to borrow?

Bank: We need fees, sigh here. Nevermind, we'll just sign for you

Country: Hmmkay

The banks did not force Greece to borrow. They FACILITATED Greece's borrowing. That's how banks make money, tard.

Greece was a shitty credit risk that wanted money. In normal circumstances, the world market would say to such a country, "Tough shit" and Greece would be unable to get its hands on the money.

But Goldman Sachs found a way for them. "Here", they said, "we will use the magic of derivatives to transfer risk from the shitty borrower to the rube lenders. It's been working wonders in the world housing market!"

Oopsie!

Same model. Same timeframe.

Did Greece come to the banks with a need for money?

Yes. Every day, every deficit spending country, including Merka, comes to the banks with a need for money.

Did the banks facilitate that request and supply Greece with the money?

Absolutely. See link I provided earlier.

Has anything illegal, immoral or fattening taken place here? Answer: No.

Immoral? Absolutely. You betcha.

Illegal? No. The banks own the governments who write the regulations. Just take a peek at any politician and see who their biggest donors are.

Go ahead. Democrat or Republican. Doesn't matter. You'll be lucky if you find more than two or three who aren't owned by Wall Street.

OK so the banks provided a service to a government that needed it.
Nothing illegal was done.
Nothing immoral was done, despite whatever bullshit you think.
A non issue.

And if Greece had managed to unfuck its economy and generate some tax revenue via an expanding economy and not pillaging its citizens it would have been able to make its interest payments. Duh.

People evade taxes in Greece, no matter what the tax rate.

Isn't this what conservatives promote? Pay lower taxes and everything will be fine?

 

[bendog]

I arrange a loan to a horrible borrower, and get a fee. I immediately pass the paper for that loan to a sucker. The risk is out of my hands, and now I have more cash to make more bad loans, and make more fees. All the while, all that bad debt is getting passed on to rube private investors who buy into my hocus-pocus marketing gibberish. I even convince the ratings agencies that toxic debt is AAA gold! MWA-HA-HA-HA!

The day of reckoning will come when it is time to revolve all that bad credit, and the house will crash down. But don't worry, the government will rescue the rich investors, and the public will assume all that toxic debt. Yay capitalism! Nothing wrong here!

Even better, the very public I just fucked up the ass will say...get this... I was forced to make those bad loans! You will never never never hear ME say it, but THEY will. BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Oh my god, it's so unfuckinglybelievably good to be in this life.

I'm not sure the thread's touched upon it, but you noted the banks got bailed out, not the Greeks. There's a problem with calling for more austerity in that unemployment in Greece is trending over 25%, and I'm sure it's a lot worse if you just measured workers in the private sector. Simply put, there are a lot of retirees who retired in their 40s who are now supporting out of work adult children with their pensions. Not that any of it's "right," but in a sense Greece needs a bankruptcy to let it re-start.

And, The OP's a bit of dramaqueen, imo.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

A lot of Greece's debt was also hidden, with the able aid of Goldman Sachs. The government was punitive toward anyone in Greece who tried to expose the true extent of the debt. Actually jailed them.

So it is pretty fucking hard for the EU to "restructure" when the banks and the government are colluding to hide the extent of the problem.

WTF? How do you think Greece got into financial trouble in the first place?
Answer me that and then we can go on from there.

 

[Toro]

An alcoholic can't get drunk if you cut him off. Is it illegal to sell alcohol to an alcoholic? Not when you get to write the rules.

Greece was the alcoholic, and Wall Street was the bartender that kept pouring. And that bartender made sure Congress didn't outlaw serving booze to drunks.

And now Greece is running people over while the bartender banks his profits.

Along comes Rabbi, "Was anything illegal done by selling that booze to Greece?"

Maybe you don't know any alcoholics.

I do.

What happens is that if the alcoholic can't buy booze at one place, they'll keep going from place to place to place.