Government Regulations Discussion (Philosophical and/or Constitutional)

SS doesn't count as you have an expectation of getting it back.

And yes, I doubt you.

Yeah keep thinking you'll get it back. And SS is still a tax.

It's OK you can be lazy and have no idea where your money is going. It would make you no different than the rest of the sheep.
 
SS doesn't count as you have an expectation of getting it back.

And yes, I doubt you.

America's Tax Bill Tops $26,738 Per Household - by Andrew Chamberlain and Gerald Prante - Budget & Tax News

Personal Finance | Control Your Spending

The largest average annual expenditure is housing at 17K per year and the average tax bill is almost 27K a year

So tell me again that taxes are not the single largest annual expenditure for most people.
The payroll taxes, according to your article, are around $7,000. I assumed you were talking about payroll taxes since this message board is mostly about discussing national issues...not state or local.

$7,000 is not the biggest expenditure of anyone that is middle class or above and certainly people that make less money pay less than the average amount of $7,000...and people that make more pay more, of course.

You haven't convinced me.
 
Is economic liberty included in your definition?
Sure. But economic liberty doesn't mean you aren't obligated to pay your taxes.

No it means that the government is run at a minimal level so as to leave us all more of the money we earn. Not at a level where taxes are the largest annual expenditure for most people.
I'd say housing costs and food are the largest annual expenditure for most people.
 
..in fact I doubt that they are the largest annual expenditure for anyone.
Unless you were incredibly rich and living incredibly frugally.
Also not taking advantage of the many tax breaks and tax loopholes, off shore bank accounts and investments the very rich have access to.
 
SS doesn't count as you have an expectation of getting it back.

And yes, I doubt you.
I think I get a reasonably good return in government services in exchange for all the taxes I pay.
 
SS doesn't count as you have an expectation of getting it back.

And yes, I doubt you.

America's Tax Bill Tops $26,738 Per Household - by Andrew Chamberlain and Gerald Prante - Budget & Tax News

Personal Finance | Control Your Spending

The largest average annual expenditure is housing at 17K per year and the average tax bill is almost 27K a year

So tell me again that taxes are not the single largest annual expenditure for most people.

"Welcome to the Heartland Institute


friedman_thumb.jpg
The Heartland Institute is a national nonprofit research and education organization, tax exempt under Section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code, and founded in Chicago in 1984. It is not affiliated with any political party, business, or foundation.
Heartland's mission is to discover, develop, and promote free-market solutions to social and economic problems. Such solutions include parental choice in education, choice and personal responsibility in health care, market-based approaches to environmental protection, privatization of public services, and deregulation in areas where property rights and markets do a better job than government bureaucracies.
http://www.heartland.org/about/
 
What things are you not ok with the government regulating?

Is there a litmus test concerning acceptable vs not acceptable regulation in your opinion?

Basically, regulation is acceptable, in my mind, when its sole purpose is to protect the rights and well-being of the people (eg: regulating what frequencies may broadcast on protects everyone's right to use broadcasting means to exercise their 1st amendment rights without another party preventing them from doing so by jamming their signal ; requiring full disclosure and transparency in the market and banking institutions protects the right to be informed of all terms and conditions of a contract as well as helping to prevent abuse and corruption by the higher-ups).

Do your philosophical/ideological views on the matter differ from your understanding of what is acceptable constitutionally?
As inconsistently as the Constitution has been applied and as dated as some parts are, I have to put the document and Scotus' haphazard enforcement thereof second to my principles.
 
Even putting aside the stark demonstrations of consititutional ignorance, the discussion about television commercial volume has been pretty interesting and leads me to consider some fundamental questions about government regulation in general.

What things are you ok with the government (i.e. the people) regulating?

What things are you not ok with the government regulating?

Is there a litmus test concerning acceptable vs not acceptable regulation in your opinion?

Do your philosophical/ideological views on the matter differ from your understanding of what is acceptable constitutionally?

Personally, I believe the Federal Government's powers should be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce, while the State Government's powers should extend to all the objects which in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives and liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement and prosperity of the State, as long as neither federal nor state powers interfere with the individuals right to do anything they wish as long as they do not infringe upon the individual rights of another.

If the Constitution is interpreted as the founders intended, and explained in their correspondence at the time, I find no difference between it and my views.
 
SS doesn't count as you have an expectation of getting it back.

And yes, I doubt you.

America's Tax Bill Tops $26,738 Per Household - by Andrew Chamberlain and Gerald Prante - Budget & Tax News

Personal Finance | Control Your Spending

The largest average annual expenditure is housing at 17K per year and the average tax bill is almost 27K a year

So tell me again that taxes are not the single largest annual expenditure for most people.
The payroll taxes, according to your article, are around $7,000. I assumed you were talking about payroll taxes since this message board is mostly about discussing national issues...not state or local.

$7,000 is not the biggest expenditure of anyone that is middle class or above and certainly people that make less money pay less than the average amount of $7,000...and people that make more pay more, of course.

You haven't convinced me.

nice try but payroll taxes are only a piece of the pie.

What about all the other taxes that add up to over 26K

Jun07%20BTN%20Fig1.jpg


you do like to live with your head in the sand don't you?
 
SS doesn't count as you have an expectation of getting it back.

And yes, I doubt you.

America's Tax Bill Tops $26,738 Per Household - by Andrew Chamberlain and Gerald Prante - Budget & Tax News

Personal Finance | Control Your Spending

The largest average annual expenditure is housing at 17K per year and the average tax bill is almost 27K a year

So tell me again that taxes are not the single largest annual expenditure for most people.

"Welcome to the Heartland Institute


friedman_thumb.jpg
The Heartland Institute is a national nonprofit research and education organization, tax exempt under Section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code, and founded in Chicago in 1984. It is not affiliated with any political party, business, or foundation.
Heartland's mission is to discover, develop, and promote free-market solutions to social and economic problems. Such solutions include parental choice in education, choice and personal responsibility in health care, market-based approaches to environmental protection, privatization of public services, and deregulation in areas where property rights and markets do a better job than government bureaucracies.
http://www.heartland.org/about/

you don't like that link then how about this one

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

Table 2 shows the full list of taxes Americans pay to the federal government in Washington each year, and Table 3 shows the taxes they pay to state and local governments at home. To make the figures easier to understand, we’ve presented them on a per-household basis—total collections divided by the roughly 113 million U.S. households in 2004. Those who prefer totals can simply multiply the figures by 113,476,000.

In 2004 Americans paid a total of $3 trillion in total taxes—$26,738 per U.S. household. Of those taxes, roughly $2 trillion or $17,338 per household is paid to the federal government, and roughly $1 trillion or $9,400 per household is paid to state and local governments. To give a sense of how large this total tax bill is, if one government agency manually collected all U.S. taxes like a bank teller accepting cash deposits, the agency would have to process $96,211 per second—24 hours per day, seven days per week—for an entire year to collect $3 trillion.

And that was in 2004. Tell me has your tax bill gone up or down in the last 5 years and will it go up or down in the next 5 years?
 
But wait there's more

Stephen Moore: The New Year Brings Tax Chaos - WSJ.com
When the clock hit midnight on Jan. 1, some 70 new taxes on the middle class and small businesses went into effect, thanks to Congress's failure to prevent the expiration of popular and economically vital tax breaks on time. So some 25 million middle class Americans are now slated to get hit with the alternative minimum tax (AMT) this year. Remember: This is the tax that was originally supposed to only hit the richest 100 Americans.

This year, the alternative minimum tax will gather $63 billion from American families with an income of as little as $75,000, according to the Senate Finance Committee. The AMT may now hit tax filers who are school teachers, construction workers and bus drivers. Call them the new rich.

The middle class will get soaked other ways, too. The new homebuyer tax credit goes away. That will hit working families with a $10.8 billion tab. The tax deduction for state and local taxes also disappears, so shoppers of all incomes will cough up $1.85 billion more.

Got a kid in college? The federal tax deduction for college tuition and fees has disappeared. That's another $1.5 billion tax hike on the nonrich.

The nation's employers are none too happy either with Congress's failure to extend these tax cuts before the New Year. The research tax credit, which businesses depend on for new innovation and R&D, has been suspended. This will raise R&D costs by more than $7 billion in 2010.

The 50% write-off for small businesses for capital purchases—such as expanding their facilities, purchasing new equipment or machinery, or building a new plant—has vanished. Without those tax incentives, small businesses are likely to put any plans to expand their operations on hold. That means less jobs and fewer pay raises. A study by the National Center for Policy Analysis found that about 90% of the benefits from capital investment goes to workers in the form of higher wages due to increased productivity.

But the biggest debacle is the estate tax. On Jan. 1 it fell to zero for the year, and then in 2011 it goes back up to 55%. Estate tax attorneys are full of stories of wealthy heirs with living wills that ask their dependents to take account of the estate tax when determining when to pull the plug on the life support system. Don't be surprised if death rates of wealthy Americans rises substantially this year.

Sen. Max Baucus has vowed to raise the estate tax back to between 35% and 55% this year, and to make that change retroactive to Jan. 1. But this will be of questionable constitutionality. Can Congress impose a new estate tax, say in April, on someone who was already dead and buried in February? Let's hope not.

Sometime within the next few months Congress promises that it will enact a new tax law to reinstate many of the tax breaks that have expired. It's highly doubtful that in an election year this Congress is going to hit 25 million Americans with a surprise AMT bill. But where is House Speaker Nancy Pelosi going to find the $63 billion in revenues to "pay for" that tax cut is anyone's guess.

What no one in Congress seems to understand is that there is a very real economic cost to constantly tinkering with the tax laws. Uncertainty is the enemy of investment. Do businesses want to make major investment decisions based on congressional promises of a future tax break? Likely not. So right now millions of businesses and tens of millions of individual tax filers are stranded in a tax purgatory.

All of this only makes the case stronger for a simple flat-rate income tax with a low rate below 20%, no deductions and no double taxation (i.e. the termination of the death tax forever). The tax rules should be simple, nonintrusive, pro-growth, and set in stone.

Congress's failure to settle the tax laws for 2010 is an unforgivable dereliction of duty. The federal government isn't so understanding when American citizens are late paying their taxes: The IRS imposes strict civil fines and even criminal penalties. We should hold Congress to the same standards.

Are you ostriches paying attention yet?
 
America's Tax Bill Tops $26,738 Per Household - by Andrew Chamberlain and Gerald Prante - Budget & Tax News

Personal Finance | Control Your Spending

The largest average annual expenditure is housing at 17K per year and the average tax bill is almost 27K a year

So tell me again that taxes are not the single largest annual expenditure for most people.
The payroll taxes, according to your article, are around $7,000. I assumed you were talking about payroll taxes since this message board is mostly about discussing national issues...not state or local.

$7,000 is not the biggest expenditure of anyone that is middle class or above and certainly people that make less money pay less than the average amount of $7,000...and people that make more pay more, of course.

You haven't convinced me.

nice try but payroll taxes are only a piece of the pie.

What about all the other taxes that add up to over 26K

Jun07%20BTN%20Fig1.jpg


you do like to live with your head in the sand don't you?

More Heartland misinformation.
 
The payroll taxes, according to your article, are around $7,000. I assumed you were talking about payroll taxes since this message board is mostly about discussing national issues...not state or local.

$7,000 is not the biggest expenditure of anyone that is middle class or above and certainly people that make less money pay less than the average amount of $7,000...and people that make more pay more, of course.

You haven't convinced me.

nice try but payroll taxes are only a piece of the pie.

What about all the other taxes that add up to over 26K

Jun07%20BTN%20Fig1.jpg


you do like to live with your head in the sand don't you?

More Heartland misinformation.

the same numbers are found via the tax foundation the link to which I already provided but here it is again if you care to take your head out of the sand long enough to look.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

You ostriches just can't believe that the benevolent government takes more money from you annually than you spend on anything else.
 
nice try but payroll taxes are only a piece of the pie.

What about all the other taxes that add up to over 26K

Jun07%20BTN%20Fig1.jpg


you do like to live with your head in the sand don't you?

More Heartland misinformation.

the same numbers are found via the tax foundation the link to which I already provided but here it is again if you care to take your head out of the sand long enough to look.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

You ostriches just can't believe that the benevolent government takes more money from you annually than you spend on anything else.
You ungrateful spoiled child whines about having to pay taxes. You want it all for free. Lazy bum!
 
More Heartland misinformation.

the same numbers are found via the tax foundation the link to which I already provided but here it is again if you care to take your head out of the sand long enough to look.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

You ostriches just can't believe that the benevolent government takes more money from you annually than you spend on anything else.
You ungrateful spoiled child whines about having to pay taxes. You want it all for free. Lazy bum!

I am not whining, I am merely stating a fact that taxes are the highest annual expenditure for the average American. You refuse to believe it.

I have no problem paying taxes for services I receive.

I have a problem paying taxes that are used for activities which the government has no business doing.

I have a problem when the government confiscates my money then tells me that I have to buy the health insurance they tell me to buy or face additional taxes.

I have a problem when the government tell me that I have to pay additional taxes if I smoke or drink

I have a problem with the government becoming more intrusive therefore more expensive therefore taking more of what I earn away from me making harder to secure my and my family's financial future.

Government should be one of the smallest personal expenditures not the single largest
 
Geez, looks like Skull Pilot has lots and lots of problems.

Maybe he should change his name to Skull Fucked.
 

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