GOP hopefuls remind Iowans they oppose Gay Rights

[Seawytch]

Oh, there's plenty of evidence of what goes on in many public schools. I'm not in the mood to go looking for it all, it's been presented on this board, MANY TIMES. We've covered that subject until it's beaten into a dead horse up here.........Go research, you'll find the same.

Sorry, you made the unverified claim...and so it remains an unverified claim made by you.

WE have and would teach our kids that there is nothing wrong with those kids whose parents are gay. They should be treated just like every other kid..... We have and would teach them that the gay or transgender students should also be treated just like every other kid............And that's all the schools need to be teaching.

So, what are they teaching beyond that? What is it you are claiming is going on in public schools?

I'll offer my kids my opinion on what I think about the sex aspect when they can fully understand the full implications of it all. I'm not going to lie to my kids about my beliefs. I'm going to tell them that I believe that sex between two of the same sex is perverted to the core.

ROFLMAO...I thought you said you didn't teach your kids that gays and lesbians were "icky". That is EXACTLY what you are teaching them.

And i'll tell them exactly why I believe that. I'll tell them that I don't fully believe in gays raising children in that environment...I want more in depth studies on the far reaching effects to those children, before I throw my support behind it.....So far, there has only really been small scale studies. Some supporting of it, others not so much.......It's really a basically new concept. It's not widespread. I'm not going to use two examples of people on this board to form my final decision, for obvious reasons......That's my beliefs, like 'em or not. And they will not be hidden from my children out of the PC bullshit.

No it isn't and there ARE plenty of in-depth studies on gay parenting. The children of gays and lesbians have reached adulthood all over the country and the studies ALL show that the children of gays and lesbians are at no disadvantage to the children of heterosexuals. None, zip, zilch. You might be continuing to ignore the evidence, but the evidence is there and "the kids are all right".

 

[Seawytch]

Was it also pointed out what an unrealistic expectation that is? You are NEVER going to pry the benefits associated with legal marriage away from people.

Irrelevant.

I'll never pry government workers away from feeding at the public trough - doesn't mean I shouldn't oppose them.

Have fun storming the castle and tilting at windmills.

How stupid.

Hopefully you can do better.

You are correct, your answer was incredibly stupid and didn't answer the question. What special privileges? Name ONE.

 

[bodecea]

I'm not teaching my kids that gays are "icky"...So get off that bullshit, and quit playing that fuckin' victim card.

I don't have a problem with teaching tolerance. It should be taught. But it is a fact that many teachers take it beyond it that......Case in point, Heather has two mommy's. Fine, Heather has two mommy's. Some kids have two mommies or daddy's, and that should be tolerated and not used against them. What happens though, is you have teachers who take it beyond that, and start teaching that it's just a wonderful thing. That it should be widely accepted as perfectly normal by everybody.....Well, a kids religion may teach them differently, and it's not up to the schools to teach the virtues of it all.....I'm speaking in terms of personal experience. Our twin daughters came home asking all kinds of bizarre questions about religion and politics when they were 6 year olds. Their teacher (who was eventually fired as a result of our actions and several other parents actions) was continually shoving BS left wing talking points down their throats. It was far out of the realm of what children should be taught. One parent attached a long play digital voice recorder to her kids backpack to see if she could find out what was going on. Because her son too was asking all kinds of weird shit. What was recorded was appalling. It was nothing but a bunch of anti-war, anti-bush, anti- establishment BS....When we sat with the superintendent and listened to it, everybody was blown away...And we would have been just as pissed if it were the opposite being shoved down their throats....Unfortunately, this happens far too often in our public schools. More than people want to admit.....It's why our kids were yanked and put into private school.

Yeah, teach tolerence, i'm all for it, I demand it. But it should never be taken beyond that level. And we see time and time again that it is taken beyond that level.

So you don't share with your kids the attitude you have that allows you to call me some of the foul things you have on this forum? I doubt that very much.

You invite it Bodecea, with your snarky lil' better than thou attitude. You've always been that way......Hopefully, you don't share that snarky better than thou attitude with your kid. You're no different than anybody else.......Yes Bodecea, you have called me foul things in the past so, don't even try and deny it.

If you can dish out, but can't take it, then maybe you should go find a "discover your inner sensitivity" board. Where everything thing is unicorns, rainbows, rose scented fairy dust farts, pretty meadows, and lilac scented shit.

So so-called snarky attitudes cause you to use foul language and accuse me of being a pedophile? And your kids don't pick up on that being the way to behave? Truely?

And go ahead and share with us some of the "foul things" I've called you in the past. Then I'll share what you've called me.....we'll see who has the foulest thoughts on their mind and on their tongue.

 

[gekaap]

Have you ever read anything Rand wrote? I don't mean articles ABOUT what she wrote posted on Daily KOS, have you read anything directly?

Yes, I have. As a matter of fact, in the thread about Atlas Shrugged, I gave a critical review of the book.

As a moderate, do you find Michael Moore to be just a little too conservative, or way too conservative?

What?

Why?

Obama's mentor, Bill Ayers carried a gun.

Good for him. You're dodging the facts, though, in your fool hardy attempt to paint me as a some left winger, just because I don't agree with you.

Sure, having a dog definitely proves that....

IT'S A DINGO! WHAT KIND OF AMERICAN HAS AN AVATAR OF AN AUSTRALIAN DOG! YOU MUST HATE AMERICA!!! A REAL AMERICAN WOULD HAVE A CHESAPEAKE BAY RETRIEVER, A NICE AMERICAN DOG!!

 

[gekaap]

I stated half a dozen pages back that I preferred the federal and state governments completely out of marriage.

Then how do you justify having the government EVEN MORE involved, by outlawing gay marriage?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Sorry, you made the unverified claim...and so it remains an unverified claim made by you.

So, what are they teaching beyond that? What is it you are claiming is going on in public schools?


ROFLMAO...I thought you said you didn't teach your kids that gays and lesbians were "icky". That is EXACTLY what you are teaching them.


No it isn't and there ARE plenty of in-depth studies on gay parenting. The children of gays and lesbians have reached adulthood all over the country and the studies ALL show that the children of gays and lesbians are at no disadvantage to the children of heterosexuals. None, zip, zilch. You might be continuing to ignore the evidence, but the evidence is there and "the kids are all right".

I don't teach them they are "icky" (icky?...what are you, ten years old?). Stop with the damn victim card.

But, I WILL make make my opinion known that I believe their sex lives are perverted. And I WILL explain in a very up front way why I, and many others believe that. They will also be taught that many heteros are also perverted, but what anybody does behind closed doors, hetero or homo, is their business, and should not reflect on how you treat them as a whole beyond those doors.....They will be judged when the time comes, and whatever price they pay, is their problem. Good or bad......Life is full of choices. You make the wrong choices you may pay in a very big way.

Look, you're not going to change my views. I really don't care if you like them or not. If it bothers you that i'm going to be honest to my children about my views, that's your problem, I don't care.....Our kids aren't sheltered. They are exposed to all views. At 11 years old, they are straight A students already being courted by the top prep schools in the area....They fully have the ability to process views and come up with their own views and beliefs.

Are you trying to say that a person who may think it's a perversion, still can't treat someone with respect and dignity?

'cause that's the way you're going with it......... It's that victim BS.

And, there is still not enough eveidence out there to form any opinion on gay parents. I've seen a study by one university, that said as a whole, those kids SEEM to turn out Ok, However, they did find that daughters of lesbian parents tended to be more open sexually, and promiscuous later in life....Where the exact opposite was shown in their sons.

I want more in depth studies.....Of course you are going to believe that the "kids are all right", it fits in to your agenda......I'm not buyin' into it as of yet.....And if that bothers you, too bad!

 

[Wicked Jester]

So you don't share with your kids the attitude you have that allows you to call me some of the foul things you have on this forum? I doubt that very much.

You invite it Bodecea, with your snarky lil' better than thou attitude. You've always been that way......Hopefully, you don't share that snarky better than thou attitude with your kid. You're no different than anybody else.......Yes Bodecea, you have called me foul things in the past so, don't even try and deny it.

If you can dish out, but can't take it, then maybe you should go find a "discover your inner sensitivity" board. Where everything thing is unicorns, rainbows, rose scented fairy dust farts, pretty meadows, and lilac scented shit.

So so-called snarky attitudes cause you to use foul language and accuse me of being a pedophile? And your kids don't pick up on that being the way to behave? Truely?

And go ahead and share with us some of the "foul things" I've called you in the past. Then I'll share what you've called me.....we'll see who has the foulest thoughts on their mind and on their tongue.

What I say up here, does not translate to what I say in front of my children. Get it?

And, if you want to settle old scores Bodey, go ahead.....We're both guilty, so what?.....Fact of the matter is, I can't stand you, you can't stand me. We hammer each other. It's the way it is, and it's not going to change. I will never like you for certain reasons, you'll never like me for certain reasons.......You talk shit, i'll talk shit. I talk shit, you'll talk shit......I haven't liked you from day one and vise versa so, we'll both continue to say things.

And yes, i am foul mouthed....Want an example?.......Cover your ears!

SHIT, PISS, FUCK, ****, COCKSUCKER, MOTHERFUCKER, AND........TITS,

 

[bodecea]

You invite it Bodecea, with your snarky lil' better than thou attitude. You've always been that way......Hopefully, you don't share that snarky better than thou attitude with your kid. You're no different than anybody else.......Yes Bodecea, you have called me foul things in the past so, don't even try and deny it.

If you can dish out, but can't take it, then maybe you should go find a "discover your inner sensitivity" board. Where everything thing is unicorns, rainbows, rose scented fairy dust farts, pretty meadows, and lilac scented shit.

So so-called snarky attitudes cause you to use foul language and accuse me of being a pedophile? And your kids don't pick up on that being the way to behave? Truely?

And go ahead and share with us some of the "foul things" I've called you in the past. Then I'll share what you've called me.....we'll see who has the foulest thoughts on their mind and on their tongue.

What I say up here, does not translate to what I say in front of my children. Get it?

And, if you want to settle old scores Bodey, go ahead.....We're both guilty, so what?.....Fact of the matter is, I can't stand you, you can't stand me. We hammer each other. It's the way it is, and it's not going to change. I will never like you for certain reasons, you'll never like me for certain reasons.......You talk shit, i'll talk shit. I talk shit, you'll talk shit......I haven't liked you from day one and vise versa so, we'll both continue to say things.

And yes, i am foul mouthed....Want an example?.......Cover your ears!

SHIT, PISS, FUCK, ****, COCKSUCKER, MOTHERFUCKER, AND........TITS,

I'm sorry, but your personality comes thru on your posts. Are you seriously trying to make us believe you don't have these attitudes towards gay people and aren't as obvious about it in real life?

 

[Wicked Jester]

So so-called snarky attitudes cause you to use foul language and accuse me of being a pedophile? And your kids don't pick up on that being the way to behave? Truely?

And go ahead and share with us some of the "foul things" I've called you in the past. Then I'll share what you've called me.....we'll see who has the foulest thoughts on their mind and on their tongue.

What I say up here, does not translate to what I say in front of my children. Get it?

And, if you want to settle old scores Bodey, go ahead.....We're both guilty, so what?.....Fact of the matter is, I can't stand you, you can't stand me. We hammer each other. It's the way it is, and it's not going to change. I will never like you for certain reasons, you'll never like me for certain reasons.......You talk shit, i'll talk shit. I talk shit, you'll talk shit......I haven't liked you from day one and vise versa so, we'll both continue to say things.

And yes, i am foul mouthed....Want an example?.......Cover your ears!

SHIT, PISS, FUCK, ****, COCKSUCKER, MOTHERFUCKER, AND........TITS,

I'm sorry, but your personality comes thru on your posts. Are you seriously trying to make us believe you don't have these attitudes towards gay people and aren't as obvious about it in real life?

What attitudes?.....They are beliefs and opinions........Yeah, I believe gays in their sex lives are perverts. I believe they are making a choice. I'm not convinced that them raising children is a good thing. I need more evidence. I'm not necessarily for or against it. The jury is still out for me........I make my views known when the discussion comes up.......Do I ride up and down the streets of West Hollywood, screaming at the top my lungs, "GAYS ARE PERVERTS!"?........Of course not.......Would I do it in front of my children?.....of course not.
Have I made my views known to gays when the subject comes up?.....Absolutely. That's what debate is all about........Do I get all uppity when they vehemently object to my views?....No, everybody has their opinion.......Will I stand up and protect our gay neighbor if I see him physically attacked for his lifestyle?.......Damn right!. He's a nice guy, despite what I may think of his choice of sex life.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes, I have. As a matter of fact, in the thread about Atlas Shrugged, I gave a critical review of the book.

I'll look it up, though I get the feeling I'll be in for some shrill recitation of web based attacks.

What?

You view yourself in the "center," correct? I'm just trying to gauge how far someone like Moore is to the right of that center...

Good for him. You're dodging the facts, though,

Not at all, supporting the right to be armed doesn't make one conservative nor even moderate.

IT'S A DINGO! WHAT KIND OF AMERICAN HAS AN AVATAR OF AN AUSTRALIAN DOG! YOU MUST HATE AMERICA!!! A REAL AMERICAN WOULD HAVE A CHESAPEAKE BAY RETRIEVER, A NICE AMERICAN DOG!!

She is the best dog I've ever had. Smart, loyal and well behaved.

I take it you have cats, lots and lots of cats, right?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Then how do you justify having the government EVEN MORE involved, by outlawing gay marriage?

Not having government intrude is having government more involved?

 

[bodecea]

Then how do you justify having the government EVEN MORE involved, by outlawing gay marriage?

Not having government intrude is having government more involved?

DOMA is not having government intrude? Laws in states like TX and VA and FL stating quite clearly that they will not recognize any legal paperwork protecting gay couples is not having government intrude?

 

[gekaap]

I'll look it up, though I get the feeling I'll be in for some shrill recitation of web based attacks.

Actually I had praise and criticism. I felt the plot development was well paced and that Rand did a good job developing a complex plot, with allusions early in the story that could easily be all but forgotten until being "magically" made relevant deep into the story. Her style of description is appropriately unique for an artist. Sometimes she describes something in a way that makes the think it's an unusual way to describe what she's saying. But it is always effective and identifies the work as her own. But I find the plot, as a matter of realism, not realistic, and only able to flow "naturally" by positing exceptional characters in exceptional circumstances, resulting in an end story that is directed. This would not be, itself, an issue for a plain novel. But because Rand was writing more than a novel, and intended her work to illustrate her idea of a "what if," the ultimate conclusions she implies do not flow from a realistic scenario. It only works in a Rand universe, kinda like how two hobbits beating Sauron only works in a LOTR universe.

I could go on in more depth to analyze the book, but it's really not the issue here, is it?

You view yourself in the "center," correct? I'm just trying to gauge how far someone like Moore is to the right of that center...

Okay, I get it. You want to see if I would consider the very left wing Michael Moore to be to my right, which would place me even farther on the left than he. Har har.

Not at all, supporting the right to be armed doesn't make one conservative nor even moderate.

No single issue can map one's place on the political spectrum, unless one believes in purist concepts of polar partisanism.

She is the best dog I've ever had. Smart, loyal and well behaved.

I'm sure she is. My point is that relying on an avatar to make wide sweeping assumptions about a person is rather silly.

I take it you have cats, lots and lots of cats, right?

As much as I love all animals, I am not able to fairly provide for the needs of anyone other than myself at this point. So no, I have no cats. But one day I plan to have two cheetahs, King cheetahs preferably. A male, whom I will name Ghengis, and a female whom I will name Khan.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually I had praise and criticism. I felt the plot development was well paced and that Rand did a good job developing a complex plot, with allusions early in the story that could easily be all but forgotten until being "magically" made relevant deep into the story.

Fair enough, I agree with some of what you wrote. I don't go as far as saying the characters are one dimensional, but they are clearly vehicles to illustrate Objectivist thought, rather than fully fleshed out characters.

Okay, I get it. You want to see if I would consider the very left wing Michael Moore to be to my right, which would place me even farther on the left than he. Har har.

I'm just trying to rectify the dichotomy of what you claim to what you post.

No single issue can map one's place on the political spectrum, unless one believes in purist concepts of polar partisanism.

Exactly.

I'm sure she is. My point is that relying on an avatar to make wide sweeping assumptions about a person is rather silly.

Unless of course one chooses an avatar which has a distinct political attack at it's base, as you have.

Again, your review of Atlas was reasonable, but your avatar is simply stupid. The two do not mesh.

I find the blind bashing of Rand to be based on ignorance, as is the blind bashing of Marx.

Recognizing that Marx had valid and valuable insights doesn't make one a Marxist - no more than recognizing that Rand had many valid points makes one an Objectivist.

I am neither, yet recognize wisdom from both.

 

[gekaap]

Unless of course one chooses an avatar which has a distinct political attack at it's base, as you have.

Again, your review of Atlas was reasonable, but your avatar is simply stupid. The two do not mesh.

I find the blind bashing of Rand to be based on ignorance, as is the blind bashing of Marx.

Recognizing that Marx had valid and valuable insights doesn't make one a Marxist - no more than recognizing that Rand had many valid points makes one an Objectivist.

I am neither, yet recognize wisdom from both.

I don't even recognize Rand as a politico with a philosophy. To me, she's a philosopher with a politicology, if you will. Philosophically speaking, Rand is a failure. She trips over herself and contradicts herself on a philosophical level. Her "philosophy" at best boils down to a list of points around which a methodology is expected to form in an audience's mind. She fails to provide any structure to her philosophy and her political crossovers eventually become akin to a priest teaching biology class, or a biologist teaching Sunday school.

One of the most interesting and paradoxical elements of Rand's work, philosophically speaking, is her strong reliance on Nietzsche as inspiration, yet also spitting in the face and defying the quintessence of his work. Nietzsche took us beyond good and evil and presented to us that our moral interpretations were nothing but foreground estimates. It's a bastardization of that for Rand to offer presentations of people like John Galt, Dagny Taggart, and Hank Rearden as Nietzchean over-men, who uphold their own happiness and pleasure as a thing with moral value, either good or bad. And if it is to have any moral value, how can it be a positive one, when the same philosophy of the over-man from which they were born would further decry pursuit of their happiness and pleasure above all else as decadence? Nietzsche's influence on Rand's work is inescapable, but it is also inescapably shallow and ultimately contradictory.

 

[Gadawg73]

Oh, there's plenty of evidence of what goes on in many public schools. I'm not in the mood to go looking for it all, it's been presented on this board, MANY TIMES. We've covered that subject until it's beaten into a dead horse up here.........Go research, you'll find the same.

WE have and would teach our kids that there is nothing wrong with those kids whose parents are gay. They should be treated just like every other kid..... We have and would teach them that the gay or transgender students should also be treated just like every other kid............And that's all the schools need to be teaching.

I'll offer my kids my opinion on what I think about the sex aspect when they can fully understand the full implications of it all. I'm not going to lie to my kids about my beliefs. I'm going to tell them that I believe that sex between two of the same sex is perverted to the core. And i'll tell them exactly why I believe that. I'll tell them that I don't fully believe in gays raising children in that environment...I want more in depth studies on the far reaching effects to those children, before I throw my support behind it.....So far, there has only really been small scale studies. Some supporting of it, others not so much.......It's really a basically new concept. It's not widespread. I'm not going to use two examples of people on this board to form my final decision, for obvious reasons......That's my beliefs, like 'em or not. And they will not be hidden from my children out of the PC bullshit.

This guy, I believe. Give him time, his views will change. He is already 4/5 there anyway.
Sounds like a clone of me 10 years ago.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Look at the first link I provided. It cleary showed that lesbian violence and gay male violence was higher among couples than heterosexual violence among couples. With lesbian violence being the highest.........That's from the USDOJ......I trust that far more than the numerous LGBT blogs out there.

You can't sit there and tell me that homosexual marriages are more stable when statistics show that homosexuals on average are more violent in their relationships. That homosexuals are more inclined to stray in their relationships.

I want real numbers on gay marriage divorce rates. There are no real studies out there to provide any statistics......That's why the lies and propoganda has to stop from the gay activists, because they have nothing to back it up.......It's all false propoganda and lies at this point, put out to try and further their cause.

I am still waiting for you to show us the hetero to homo MARRIED domestic violence stats, Wicked Jester.

There are none, Bodecea!

What i'm trying to show you is that you cannot sit here and claim that Homosexuals are any different in their relationships.....And that no doubt translates to marriage and divorce.....In fact, I'll say it again, the DOJ shows that Homosexuals have a higher propensity for violence in their relationships.......That too will translate to marriage.

Until studies are done, you activists need to stop with the propoganda. Because you have zero evidence to support it......And you know it!

Even if your claim was true, you don't deny civil rights to individuals in this country because they happen to belong to a demographic that statistically, as a group, has a worse track record than some other group.

The worst sub group of marriages where domestic violence is more likely to occur is one where alcohol is involved. Should we deny legal marriage to people who drink?

 

[Seawytch]

I don't teach them they are "icky" (icky?...what are you, ten years old?). Stop with the damn victim card.

But, I WILL make make my opinion known that I believe their sex lives are perverted. And I WILL explain in a very up front way why I, and many others believe that. They will also be taught that many heteros are also perverted, but what anybody does behind closed doors, hetero or homo, is their business, and should not reflect on how you treat them as a whole beyond those doors.....They will be judged when the time comes, and whatever price they pay, is their problem. Good or bad......Life is full of choices. You make the wrong choices you may pay in a very big way.

LOL...if you teach your children that gays are "perverted"...it's the same exact thing as "icky". You ARE teaching your kids that gays are icky. Nice that you also teach them not to beat up on the icky gays though. We do need more of that.

Look, you're not going to change my views. I really don't care if you like them or not. If it bothers you that i'm going to be honest to my children about my views, that's your problem, I don't care.....Our kids aren't sheltered. They are exposed to all views. At 11 years old, they are straight A students already being courted by the top prep schools in the area....They fully have the ability to process views and come up with their own views and beliefs.

Nobody is saying you can't. You still haven't answered the question posed; What is being taught in school regarding same sex relationships that you object to? Can you give ANY specific examples?

Are you trying to say that a person who may think it's a perversion, still can't treat someone with respect and dignity?

'cause that's the way you're going with it......... It's that victim BS.

Not at all...just haven't seen it in practice all that often. Perhaps you are better at it than most. Good on you!

And, there is still not enough eveidence out there to form any opinion on gay parents. I've seen a study by one university, that said as a whole, those kids SEEM to turn out Ok, However, they did find that daughters of lesbian parents tended to be more open sexually, and promiscuous later in life....Where the exact opposite was shown in their sons.

I want more in depth studies.....Of course you are going to believe that the "kids are all right", it fits in to your agenda......I'm not buyin' into it as of yet.....And if that bothers you, too bad!

It has nothing to do with an "agenda" and everything to do with personal experience and scientific evidence.

For the most part, the organizations are relying on a relatively small but conclusive body of research -- approximately 67 studies -- looking at children of gay parents and compiled by the American Psychological Association. In study after study, children in same-sex parent families turned out the same, for better or for worse, as children in heterosexual families.

Moreover, a 2001 meta-analysis of those studies found that the sexual orientation of a parent is irrelevant to the development of a child's mental health and social development and to the quality of a parent-child relationship.

Read more: What happens to kids raised by gay parents?

Let me guess....you looked up studies at Narth right?

I am a gay parent. I have two kids and I'll stack 'em up against anybody's kids any old day. Kids need parents, preferably two of them, that love them unconditionally. The gender of the parents IS completely irrelevant.

Now, are you EVER going to answer the question about what is allegedly being taught in schools that you object to?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't even recognize Rand as a politico with a philosophy. To me, she's a philosopher with a politicology, if you will. Philosophically speaking, Rand is a failure. She trips over herself and contradicts herself on a philosophical level.

When I read your review of Atlas in the other thread, I had hopes for something that went beyond Jeff Walker's heavy handed attacks on Rand. Here we see the recitation of Walker's tired diatribe.

It's a shame, really.

Now this isn't to say I don't see flaws with Rand, I see many and deep ones. I will acknowledge my own prejudice here by stating that economically I am most influenced by Murray Rothbard. If you are unaware of the attacks by Rand on Rothbard and the Libertarian party, suffice it to say that they were plenty. The cult like behavior is undeniable as was the megalomania which gripped Rand.

Nonetheless, to dismiss some of the extraordinary contributions of Rand, particularly the essay cum speech of Francisco d'Aconia in Atlas, is to seriously embrace ignorance over intellect.

With the encroachment of fascism under Obama, where public treasuries are raided on behalf of Goldman Sachs, where the line of authority between the administration and the GS board of directors is obscured to the point of non-existence, when the federal government at the behest of Obama and on behalf of the corrupt UAW openly merges with General Motors, then words such as these transcend merely profound and become prophetic.

{"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion – when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing – when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors – when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you – when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot. }

 

[Wicked Jester]

I don't teach them they are "icky" (icky?...what are you, ten years old?). Stop with the damn victim card.

But, I WILL make make my opinion known that I believe their sex lives are perverted. And I WILL explain in a very up front way why I, and many others believe that. They will also be taught that many heteros are also perverted, but what anybody does behind closed doors, hetero or homo, is their business, and should not reflect on how you treat them as a whole beyond those doors.....They will be judged when the time comes, and whatever price they pay, is their problem. Good or bad......Life is full of choices. You make the wrong choices you may pay in a very big way.

LOL...if you teach your children that gays are "perverted"...it's the same exact thing as "icky". You ARE teaching your kids that gays are icky. Nice that you also teach them not to beat up on the icky gays though. We do need more of that.

Look, you're not going to change my views. I really don't care if you like them or not. If it bothers you that i'm going to be honest to my children about my views, that's your problem, I don't care.....Our kids aren't sheltered. They are exposed to all views. At 11 years old, they are straight A students already being courted by the top prep schools in the area....They fully have the ability to process views and come up with their own views and beliefs.

Nobody is saying you can't. You still haven't answered the question posed; What is being taught in school regarding same sex relationships that you object to? Can you give ANY specific examples?

Are you trying to say that a person who may think it's a perversion, still can't treat someone with respect and dignity?

'cause that's the way you're going with it......... It's that victim BS.

Not at all...just haven't seen it in practice all that often. Perhaps you are better at it than most. Good on you!

And, there is still not enough eveidence out there to form any opinion on gay parents. I've seen a study by one university, that said as a whole, those kids SEEM to turn out Ok, However, they did find that daughters of lesbian parents tended to be more open sexually, and promiscuous later in life....Where the exact opposite was shown in their sons.

I want more in depth studies.....Of course you are going to believe that the "kids are all right", it fits in to your agenda......I'm not buyin' into it as of yet.....And if that bothers you, too bad!

It has nothing to do with an "agenda" and everything to do with personal experience and scientific evidence.

For the most part, the organizations are relying on a relatively small but conclusive body of research -- approximately 67 studies -- looking at children of gay parents and compiled by the American Psychological Association. In study after study, children in same-sex parent families turned out the same, for better or for worse, as children in heterosexual families.

Moreover, a 2001 meta-analysis of those studies found that the sexual orientation of a parent is irrelevant to the development of a child's mental health and social development and to the quality of a parent-child relationship.

Read more: What happens to kids raised by gay parents?

Let me guess....you looked up studies at Narth right?

I am a gay parent. I have two kids and I'll stack 'em up against anybody's kids any old day. Kids need parents, preferably two of them, that love them unconditionally. The gender of the parents IS completely irrelevant.

Now, are you EVER going to answer the question about what is allegedly being taught in schools that you object to?

What's being taught in public schools?

How about the "Fisting incident" where the sex act was taught in PUBLIC school.

How about 'HEATHER HAS TWO MOMMIES" to kids who aren't yet old enough to debate the issue, let alone fully understand it?

How about the "Brokeback mountain" incident where the movie was shown to kids who aren't yet old enough enough to attend R movies without their parents?.....Where the parents were never informed that it was going to be shown?

How about the following crap......It goes far beyond what is necessary. This should require a permission slip to attend......It should never be required curriculum.....It needs to stop!.....No kid should be taken to a gay pride assembly behind their parents backs......This is no different whatsoever than if public schools were conducting bible study as part of required curriculum....Or having kids participate in political grandstanding like singing "mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack Hussein Obama!"
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9z4uIUBJk&NR=1[/ame]