God vs science

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by froggy, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. froggy
    Offline

    froggy Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,309
    Thanks Received:
    1,113
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Ratings:
    +1,632
    GOOD READ!

    GOD VS SCIENCE


    ( In hopes that all our college students are able to articulate this well. )






    In a College classroom with a professor teaching a philosophy lesson: 'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.' The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. 'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'


    'Yes sir,' the student says.


    'So you believe in God?'

    "Absolutely.. 'Is God good?'

    'Sure! God's good.'

    "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

    'Yes'

    'Are you good or evil?'

    'The Bible says I'm evil.'

    The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

    'Yes sir, I would.'

    'So you're good...!'

    'I wouldn't say that.

    'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

    The student does not answer, so the professor continues.

    'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'

    The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

    'Er..yes,' the student says.

    'Is Satan good?"

    The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

    'Then where does Satan come from?'

    The student falters. 'From God'



    'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

    'Yes, sir.'



    'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

    'Yes'

    'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'


    Again, the student has no answer.



    Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

    The student squirms on his feet.

    'Yes.'

    'So who created them?'


    The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer.

    Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.


    'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'



    The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

    The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

    'No sir.. I've never seen Him.'

    'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

    'No, sir, I have not.'

    'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'


    'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

    'Yet you still believe in him?'

    'Yes'

    'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?'

    'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'

    'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

    The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own.

    'Professor, is there such thing as heat?'

    'Yes.

    'And is there such a thing as cold?'

    'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

    'No sir, there isn't.'

    The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet.

    The student begins to explain.

    'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

    Silence across the across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

    'What about darkness, professor.. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

    'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

    'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

    The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester.

    So what point are you making, young man?'

    My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with professor, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

    The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? "Can you explain how?'

    'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor... Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

    'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

    'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

    The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

    Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a
    scientist, but a preacher?'

    The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

    To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

    Now the room is silent... The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

    'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'

    Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

    To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It s just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

    The professor sat down.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  2. uscitizen
    Offline

    uscitizen Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    45,941
    Thanks Received:
    4,791
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    My Shack
    Ratings:
    +4,807
    Logic does not go well with religion.
     
  3. Lumpy 1
    Offline

    Lumpy 1 Diamond Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    33,136
    Thanks Received:
    8,541
    Trophy Points:
    1,370
    Ratings:
    +14,857
    Thanks, it was interesting reading...
     
  4. edthecynic
    Offline

    edthecynic Censored for Cynicism

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    26,597
    Thanks Received:
    3,080
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Ratings:
    +5,699
    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
     
  5. rikules
    Offline

    rikules fighting thugs and cons

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,866
    Thanks Received:
    305
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +305
    ====================


    probably all made up.

    when i post things that dispute the lunacies of conservatives and evangelical christians they ALWAYS DEMAND links...

    where is your link proving that einstein was the student.

    ---------------

    "To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself." Evil is simply the absence of God. It s just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.' "

    trhe professor would have to be a fool to allow himself to be curtailed by this FAULTY logic.

    in fact the professor has alrerady addressed the answer;

    god made the devil
    god made all things
    so god made evil

    further
    being probably more familiar with the nonsense that is in the bible I would have to say that god is NOT good

    god promotes slavery in the bible

    slavery is NOT good (or...do you think slavery IS good?)

    god says to kill witches and homosexuals and athiests....

    hardly the acts of a GOOD god.

    god sounds to me more like a BAD god
    a deranged, evil maniacal bloodthirsty overlypunitive jerk

    tossing a GOOD and DECENT PERSON into the fires of hell for ALL eternity simply for NOT believeing in god is NOT the act of a GOOD god.

    it is the act of a VERY VERY BAD god
     
  6. edthecynic
    Offline

    edthecynic Censored for Cynicism

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    26,597
    Thanks Received:
    3,080
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Ratings:
    +5,699
    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
    Definately made up!

    snopes.com: Einstein Humiliates Atheist

    Christians habitually transpose principles of science with biblical dogma to try to sucker people into defending the bible and attacking science. As the above bible quote shows, it is the bible the says that darkness was "created" by God, not science. It is science that says darkness is the absence of light.

    Science lesson plans: Unit 1d: Light and dark lesson plans: Key stage 1 & 2 lesson plans: Primary school lessons: Schoolsnet

    Another example is, it is often preached from the pulpit in describing the Big Bang that science says "First there was nothing, and then it went bang." Science according to the First Law of Thermodynamica says there is no such thing as nothing, and the bible actually says "No thing (God) created everything from nothing" or to put it in the same terms Christians use, "First there was nothing, and then it spoke."
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  7. Kalam
    Offline

    Kalam Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    8,866
    Thanks Received:
    773
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +773
    Albert Einstein? Bullshit. :rolleyes:
     
  8. froggy
    Offline

    froggy Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,309
    Thanks Received:
    1,113
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Ratings:
    +1,632
    OK since the A. E. part is disturbing to some ill remove it, But what of the content the student states, do you disagree with his statements and why?
     
  9. froggy
    Offline

    froggy Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,309
    Thanks Received:
    1,113
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Ratings:
    +1,632
    To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It s just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.' This is what atheist use as their excuse that "God causes all the evil in the bible", when in truth evil comes from the mind and hands of humans,
     
  10. Bill O'Olberman
    Offline

    Bill O'Olberman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    818
    Thanks Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +124
    But God is omnipresent. So since God is everywhere and in everything, even in people who commit morally questionable acts, evil, or what we percieve to be evil, isnt the absence of God.

    Am I also to assume that darkness, cold, and evil are all supposed to be undesirable? Because if there is too much heat, less(cold) can be good. If there is to much light, less(darkness) can be good. So can I to assume that there can be too much "God" in people and that less(evil) can be a remedy to too much God? Is there some kind of equilibrium?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010

Share This Page