God Is Too Big to Fit Under Your Hat

[Dragon]

God is beyond the comprehension of human minds.

God is, therefore, also beyond description in human language.

God is, therefore, also beyond the ability of scripture to describe Him/Her/It or His/Her/Its will, since scripture is written in human language and suffers from the limitations of human language.

Therefore, all religions are false.

 

[lizzie]

Not necessarily. Maybe dogmatic/ formally organized religions are, maybe not. Religion itself isn't false.

 

[ABikerSailor]

God is beyond the comprehension of human minds.

God is, therefore, also beyond description in human language.

God is, therefore, also beyond the ability of scripture to describe Him/Her/It or His/Her/Its will, since scripture is written in human language and suffers from the limitations of human language.

Therefore, all religions are false.

I don't know that I would say all of 'em are false. If you look at the varied religions, you'd see that many of them carry the same message, just for a different audience. Tao is very closely related to Judaic theology in it's approach to God, and what Yeshua (Jesus) taught is very similar to what Buddha taught after he reached enlightenment.

I think the title of this thread would be more appropriately titled if it said "God is too big to fit in just one religion".

 

[koshergrl]

The Holy Spirit dwells within the bible.

So you're full of shit.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The Holy Spirit dwells within the bible.

So you're full of shit.

Actually, not the entire Bible, just the first 5 books of it known as the Torah.

 

[koshergrl]

Actually, no.

 

[Dragon]

When I say that all religions are false, I mean that no religion states the truth in any straightforward way, because that's impossible. I could just as accurately say that all religions are true, because all of them point towards the truth with metaphorical language and symbol.

As long as one understands that religious doctrines and ideas are metaphors and symbols and not literal statements of reality, one can experience the truth of God in the context of ANY religion. But if one takes religious doctrines and ideas as literal statements of reality, then one will be BLOCKED from finding the truth by ALL religions.

Also, as long as one is aware of the metaphorical and symbolic nature of religious ideas, then all religions become functionally identical, because all of those symbols and metaphors, however much they may seem to differ, are hinting at the same truth. To the extent that religions are true, all are the same religion; to the extent they differ, all are false.

 

[Dragon]

Here's another way of saying the same thing. All religions are a mix of two sorts of thing: symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and comic-book stuff. To the extent that people focus on the comic-book stuff, such as (within Christianity) the miracles of Jesus, the virgin birth, the resurrection, or the idea of life after death and Heaven and Hell, it will seem a unique religion that disagrees with all others. But to the extent one focuses instead on the symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and ESPECIALLY to the degree one actually experiences universal spiritual truth, the religion will seem to agree with all others.

 

[koshergrl]

Please, one time is plenty.

You and Loki are about on the same level when it comes to being enamored of your own verbage.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Here's another way of saying the same thing. All religions are a mix of two sorts of thing: symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and comic-book stuff. To the extent that people focus on the comic-book stuff, such as (within Christianity) the miracles of Jesus, the virgin birth, the resurrection, or the idea of life after death and Heaven and Hell, it will seem a unique religion that disagrees with all others.

Simply because you dont grasp a subject does not mean it is 'comic book stuff', Sherlock.

But to the extent one focuses instead on the symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and ESPECIALLY to the degree one actually experiences universal spiritual truth, the religion will seem to agree with all others.

So it is only of value as long as it blends in with the rest of the pablum of spirituality?

Bullshit.

As to your main point, God is beyond oour limited ability to completely grasp Him, but He is also all knowing and wise enough to translate as much of His characteristics as to provide us all that we need to know.

So dont be so impressed with yourself; your cognitive capacity does not limit God, the universe nor the Body of Christ. Such limitations are just your handicaps, not those of all of us, so you would do yourself a favor to realize that you only speak for yourself and no one else.

 

[Dragon]

Simply because you dont grasp a subject does not mean it is 'comic book stuff', Sherlock.

I do grasp it. The disagreement on this is due to the fact that I know more than you, not less.

So it is only of value as long as it blends in with the rest of the pablum of spirituality?

The fact that you would use the term "pablum" to describe spirituality is proof positive that you have never experienced it, or if you have, never understood it.

As to your main point, God is beyond oour limited ability to completely grasp Him, but He is also all knowing and wise enough to translate as much of His characteristics as to provide us all that we need to know.

There's an old question about omnipotence regarding whether God can create an object too big for him to lift. The generally-accepted answer is "no," and the significance is that omnipotence does not obviate common sense and allow for logical contradictions.

Similarly, God cannot "provide us with all we need to know" because much of what we need to know simply cannot be expressed in human language, even by God. This is a limitation of human language, of course, not of God. Real understanding comes from (as Christians would say it) the Holy Spirit (there are other terms and concepts in other religions that mean the same thing), and it comes without language and beyond the limits of language. Religious teachings are valuable to the extent that they open the doors within and allow the Spirit to come through. They are never literally true, in a sense that can be understood outside of that awakening by the Spirit, and WITHIN that awakening, one comes ultimately to conclusions such as those I've expressed in this thread.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Simply because you dont grasp a subject does not mean it is 'comic book stuff', Sherlock.

I do grasp it. The disagreement on this is due to the fact that I know more than you, not less.

That is not a fact, that is your megalomaniacal opinion. You dont even know me, and yet you assert it is a 'fact' that I know less than you on the matter, lol.

There is your problem with understanding God; you cannot imagine that others might understand what you can not.

And you cannot because you are too full of yourself, too arrogant and too presumptive.

So it is only of value as long as it blends in with the rest of the pablum of spirituality?

The fact that you would use the term "pablum" to describe spirituality is proof positive that you have never experienced it, or if you have, never understood it.

From my experience, 99% of human generated religion is mystical bullshit. That you find value to it does not mean I dont get it. Meditation, for example, is great for relaxation, giving a moments pause to look at one's situation more calmly, etc, but it is not in and of itself truthful, etc. And there are so many ways of meditating it is almost universal and innate.

Those who lead religion tend to exagerate the value of what they give so that by it they elevate themselves. I dont give a flying whoop about that crap any more. God is all that really matters and He is very understandable to the extent I need to understand Him, a need that grows year by year.

As to your main point, God is beyond oour limited ability to completely grasp Him, but He is also all knowing and wise enough to translate as much of His characteristics as to provide us all that we need to know.

There's an old question about omnipotence regarding whether God can create an object too big for him to lift. The generally-accepted answer is "no," and the significance is that omnipotence does not obviate common sense and allow for logical contradictions.

No, the answer is 'no' because any object God creates is finite, and since God has infinite power God can always move any finite object.

And while omnipotence does not give God the capability of doing that which is self-contradictory, the ability of God to convey to us those things we need is not of such a self-contradictory nature.

Just as one does not have to understand every nook and cranny of all navigable ocean waters in order to cross the Straights of Dover, one does not need to understand every aspect of God in order to understand Him well enough to meet our needs.

Similarly, God cannot "provide us with all we need to know" because much of what we need to know simply cannot be expressed in human language, even by God.

And God can communicate to us by more than mere language. Part of the most profound facets of the Judeo-Christian experience is precisely that God uses the course of human events over multiple millenia to communicate to us progressively complex and profound understanding of Him as the human race has grown to become capable of understanding Him over time, and by doing so He goes way beyond the bounds of human language.

This is a limitation of human language, of course, not of God.

And human language does not limit God's creative means by which He can communicate to us.

Real understanding comes from (as Christians would say it) the Holy Spirit (there are other terms and concepts in other religions that mean the same thing), and it comes without language and beyond the limits of language.

The Holy Spirit leads us, but the HS communicates by language mostly, as St Paul said we must translate the meaning of what the HS guides us to say so that we might understand it in human speech, other wise it is meaningless blather.

Religious teachings are valuable to the extent that they open the doors within and allow the Spirit to come through.

In part, but also its value goes far beyond only that. It also can teach us what God wants us to live like and behave like and understand in our heart, mind and soul.

They are never literally true, in a sense that can be understood outside of that awakening by the Spirit, and WITHIN that awakening, one comes ultimately to conclusions such as those I've expressed in this thread.

They are most often literally true, but can also be true for those of us who have had certain experiences that others cannot grasp, but God has explained to us what we need to know in order to live as He wants us to and go to live with Him in Heaven.

That is the core message of Christianity and why it has flourished for nearly two millenia into the largest Abrahamic sect and largest religious faith of any religion on this planet.

It did not grow because we had oh so edumakated poohbahs like you to tell us how to know God. God Himself has already done that for us.

 

[Dragon]

That is not a fact, that is your megalomaniacal opinion.

It is a fact.

You dont even know me

No, but I know what you are saying, and unless you don't believe what you are saying that tells me things about what you know and don't know.

There is your problem with understanding God; you cannot imagine that others might understand what you can not.

That isn't so. I know very well that there are people on this planet whose understanding of God is much greater than mine. But I can also clearly see that you are not one of them.

From my experience, 99% of human generated religion is mystical bullshit.

The fact that you would call mysticism "bullshit" is proof positive that you have never experienced it, or if you have, never understood it.

And while omnipotence does not give God the capability of doing that which is self-contradictory, the ability of God to convey to us those things we need is not of such a self-contradictory nature.

Yes, it is, for the reason I already stated.

Just as one does not have to understand every nook and cranny of all navigable ocean waters in order to cross the Straights of Dover, one does not need to understand every aspect of God in order to understand Him well enough to meet our needs.

No, because our needs -- the ultimate goal of all religion -- is to become as God himself. In fact, that's clear from Jesus' own teachings, if you understand them properly.

The Holy Spirit leads us, but the HS communicates by language mostly

The fact that you believe this about the Spirit is proof positive that you have never experienced it, or if you have, you have failed to understand its message.

 

[Douger]

God is beyond the comprehension of human minds.

God is, therefore, also beyond description in human language.

God is, therefore, also beyond the ability of scripture to describe Him/Her/It or His/Her/Its will, since scripture is written in human language and suffers from the limitations of human language.

Therefore, all religions are false.

Hey. He talks to Dubya, Newt, Bachmann, Mitt(witt). How complicated can he be ?

 

[Dragon]

Religious claims fall into two categories on another basis, too: those that are based on personal experience, and those that are based on arbitrary authority. Religious claims based on personal experience are always mystical in nature; they involve a sense of the presence of something sacred, of expansion of one's self-concept beyond its usual boundaries; of an awareness that one's normal identity is an illusion; of a blurring of boundaries and a sense of the oneness of the cosmos.

Anyone who has experienced something like this knows how difficult it is to put into words. The reason is that human language evolved words that tag common experience. We have words for things perceived by the senses, for emotions, and for abstract thoughts based around sensory experience and emotions. But spiritual experience isn't common, and so there are no words that can easily describe it, and the more profound the experience the more true this becomes.

And yet this is the only real authority that any religion has ever had. All other religious claims are empty and baseless, founded on assertions without proof and without even the potential for subjective self-verification. And it is from this sort of arbitrary authoritarianism that all religious conflicts arise.

Muslims often express hostility towards the infidels, but Sufis know that the truth in Islam is the universal truth of all religions. Christians are often as hostile and intolerant as Muslims, but there are Christian mystics who know better. And so on. Religious doctrine is part of the illusion from which we strive to waken. When we do, when we remember, we laugh, and at the same time cry.

 

[JimBowie1958]

That is not a fact, that is your megalomaniacal opinion.

It is a fact.

That you think it a fact that you know more on a subject than a person you do not even know, at all, demonstrates your arrogance, self absorption and the pointlessness of bothering to discuss anything with someone like yourself who apaprently thinks he defines what is Truth.

Or, in the venacular, you are full of shit.

 

[AmericanFirst]

God is beyond the comprehension of human minds.

God is, therefore, also beyond description in human language.

God is, therefore, also beyond the ability of scripture to describe Him/Her/It or His/Her/Its will, since scripture is written in human language and suffers from the limitations of human language.

Therefore, all religions are false.

You and cammmpbell must be lovers. You are both psyco idiots.

 

[AmericanFirst]

The Holy Spirit dwells within the bible.

So you're full of shit.

Actually, not the entire Bible, just the first 5 books of it known as the Torah.

Actually you are totally off your rocker. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down in the book of Acts, new testament, not old testament.

 

[AmericanFirst]

When I say that all religions are false, I mean that no religion states the truth in any straightforward way, because that's impossible. I could just as accurately say that all religions are true, because all of them point towards the truth with metaphorical language and symbol.

As long as one understands that religious doctrines and ideas are metaphors and symbols and not literal statements of reality, one can experience the truth of God in the context of ANY religion. But if one takes religious doctrines and ideas as literal statements of reality, then one will be BLOCKED from finding the truth by ALL religions.

Also, as long as one is aware of the metaphorical and symbolic nature of religious ideas, then all religions become functionally identical, because all of those symbols and metaphors, however much they may seem to differ, are hinting at the same truth. To the extent that religions are true, all are the same religion; to the extent they differ, all are false.

Only two true religions and only one points the way towards Heaven. What is impossible is your ability to grasp the truth. But ignorance is bliss isn't it.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Simply because you dont grasp a subject does not mean it is 'comic book stuff', Sherlock.

I do grasp it. The disagreement on this is due to the fact that I know more than you, not less.

So it is only of value as long as it blends in with the rest of the pablum of spirituality?

The fact that you would use the term "pablum" to describe spirituality is proof positive that you have never experienced it, or if you have, never understood it.

As to your main point, God is beyond oour limited ability to completely grasp Him, but He is also all knowing and wise enough to translate as much of His characteristics as to provide us all that we need to know.

There's an old question about omnipotence regarding whether God can create an object too big for him to lift. The generally-accepted answer is "no," and the significance is that omnipotence does not obviate common sense and allow for logical contradictions.

Similarly, God cannot "provide us with all we need to know" because much of what we need to know simply cannot be expressed in human language, even by God. This is a limitation of human language, of course, not of God. Real understanding comes from (as Christians would say it) the Holy Spirit (there are other terms and concepts in other religions that mean the same thing), and it comes without language and beyond the limits of language. Religious teachings are valuable to the extent that they open the doors within and allow the Spirit to come through. They are never literally true, in a sense that can be understood outside of that awakening by the Spirit, and WITHIN that awakening, one comes ultimately to conclusions such as those I've expressed in this thread.

If you knew the truth you would know that you are an idiot. You are exactly what Jesus warned us about, false profits. Go away fool.