Gingrich safety vs Paul Liberty???

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You were sent to jail and prison for a reason, people boarding a plane have not been convicted of any crime why should they be treated as criminals?

I think you missed the point. I've actually experienced a loss of rights and freedoms. Every right in fact. What you guys are describing is trivial. Once you've experienced the depravity of the true loss of freedom you gain a new perspective on everything.

Edit: I'm not claiming to be special or anything I'm just saying I have a unique perspective on what constitutes freedom. Then of course you could compare are so called losses to nearly any other country on the earth and consider how truly lucky we were to have been born here. Many people take their freedom for granted and don't even know it.

and you lost your freedom for a reason was it in entrapment? something you did with intent? a false accusation? There was a reason unlike people who are flying on a plane.

Oh I did what I was accused of and then some. That's not the point though. Apparently I can't articulate it so it can be understood. I give up

 

[Full-Auto]

Paul top tier candidate? Lol, a little wishful thinking on your part there.

Secondly what freedoms have you lost?

Just the mention of TSA should be adequate for an answer.

Not really. Being able to fly on an airplane isn't a freedom, it's a service.

It's like saying that if a resturant requires you to wear shoes and a shirt, they are limiting your freedom.

Horsecrap. You are using their service and part of that is to make sure you aren't carrying a bomb.

Now, I think there are a lot of problems with the TSA. The political correctness (have to frisk Granny the same way your frisk Abdul.) the going nuts whenever a terrorist comes up with some obscure plan that didn't even work. I think it was thrown together in a hurry and the first thing they saw it as was a jobs program.

But please don't whine about your "freedom" being infringed upon.

Oh brother. so travel is a service.....BULLSHIT............

I am asking the airline to provide a service that I can not freely join until I am treated like a criminal.

 

[Rocko]

Before you make your mind up between these two top tier candidates please read the quote below...

"Those who would give up ESSENTIAL Liberty for a little TEMPORARY Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"(BF).

Why is Ron Paul even being considered for the Presidency, he is 76 years old!!!!! He will be 77 on election day!!!!! That and he is an isolationist, something that is incredibly stupid for a capitalist nation.

Ron Paul isolationist? He wants to start trading with many nations that US don’t trade with today. E.g. Cuba. Did you know that Cuba had a 201.4 billion trade surplus?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

It’s stupid for a captialist nation to isolate itself and not trade with other nations. When has ever Ron Paul been against trading with other nations?->never
Did you know that US has the largest trade deficit in the whole world:-470.200 billion $, that is being isolated. Because of stupid buoycotts.

Ron Paul wants to change this and start trading and earning money, that’s not isolating thats how captialst nation thinks. He wants to get more involved in foreign countries by more trade and earning money, instead of spending and wasting money.

He want's us militarily and political disengaged from the world, which would be suicide for a country of our stature.

 

[Rocko]

Being trteated as a criminal to board a plane is not perception.

Maybe you would like to be on the no fly list and not have been convicted of any crime.

I have been to jail as well as prison and being searched before getting on a plane is nothing like that I assure you. Besides as I said you have a choice.

You were sent to jail and prison for a reason, people boarding a plane have not been convicted of any crime why should they be treated as criminals?

Lets keep in mind Ron Paul isn't the only one against the TSA. He happens to be correct in this case.

 

[Avorysuds]

Before you make your mind up between these two top tier candidates please read the quote below...

"Those who would give up ESSENTIAL Liberty for a little TEMPORARY Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"(BF).

Paul top tier candidate? Lol, a little wishful thinking on your part there.

Secondly what freedoms have you lost?

Latest poll has Paul winning Iowa… You must just hate that lol.

 

[Full-Auto]

I have been to jail as well as prison and being searched before getting on a plane is nothing like that I assure you. Besides as I said you have a choice.

You were sent to jail and prison for a reason, people boarding a plane have not been convicted of any crime why should they be treated as criminals?

Lets keep in mind Ron Paul isn't the only one against the TSA. He happens to be correct in this case.

You do realize TSA had to be renamed.

Federal
Aviation
Transportation
Airport
Security
Service.

Abbreviate that on a jacket.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So everyone thinks the TSA is one problem. Got it.

Now can ANYONE list their own personal freedoms that have been lost because of the Patriot Act? I mean that is what this tussle between Newt and Paul was about.

 

[Katzndogz]

If you get right down to it, cross-walks and red lights are a huge loss of freedom. It doesn't affect you when you choose to fly, but your very ability to use public streets are infringed upon.

 

[Rocko]

Let the passengers go through normal screening, and have armed military personnel on board. The cost would be less, it would be less invasive, and probably a lot safer.

 

[Avorysuds]

So everyone thinks the TSA is one problem. Got it.

Now can ANYONE list their own personal freedoms that have been lost because of the Patriot Act? I mean that is what this tussle between Newt and Paul was about.

Posted this before, you're just to stupid to keep up.


RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS WE HAVE NEEDLESSLYLOST IN THE NAME OF NATIONAL SECURITY

Through the enactment of the USA PATRIOT Act and subsequentexecutive directives and regulations, essential rights and freedomsthat were once guaranteed to all individuals have been substantiallydegraded. Many Americans still do not realize the significance ofwhat we have lost. The resulting expansion of government powers,and the erosion of 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th amendment rights and freedoms have transformed the United States.

1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH• The Patriot Act broadly expands the official definition ofterrorism, so that many domestic groups that engage innonviolent civil disobedience could very well find themselveslabeled as terrorists.• The Government may now prosecute librarians or keepersof any other records if they reveal that the governmentrequested information on their clients or members in thecourse of an investigation. It has become a crime for theseindividuals to try to safeguard your privacy or to tell youthat you are under investigation.

1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION• Government agents may now monitor the First Amendment-protected activities of religious and political institutions, andthen infiltrate these groups with no suspicion of criminalactivity. This is a return to domestic spying on law-abidingreligious and political groups.• You may now be the subject of a government investigationsimply because of the political, activist, or advocacygroups you are involved in, or the statements you makewithin these groups.

1st AMENDMENT RIGHT TO ACCESSGOVERNMENT INFORMATION• A U.S. Department of Justice directive actively encouragesfederal, state, and local officials to resist and/or limit accessto government records through Freedom of Information Act(FOIA) requests.• The Government has conducted immigration hearings insecret behind closed doors. Such proceedings were onceopen to the public. Hundreds, if not thousands, of immigrantshave already been deported in secret.

RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS WE’VE LOST SINCE 9-11

4th AMENDMENT FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES &SEIZURES• Law Enforcement authorities may now conduct secret searches and wiretaps in your home or officewithout showing “probable cause.” They need only to claim that intelligence gathering is “a significantpurpose” of their intrusion, even when the primary goal is ordinary law enforcement. They may alsomonitor where and to whom you send and receive e-mail, or where you go on the Internet, recordingevery e-mail address and website you have been in contact with.• Law Enforcement may now demand any personal records held by any source including your doctor,employer, accountant, or library. All they have to do is claim that it is related to an investigation into“terrorism.” The record keepers may not reveal that your records were provided to the government.• Judicial oversight of secret searches has been effectively minimized. The Patriot Act directs judges toconsent to secret searches based only on the Government’s assertion that a “significant” purpose ofan investigation is gathering information related to “terrorism,” as the government defines it.

5th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS & FREEDOM FROM BEING HELD WITHOUT CHARGE

Americans can now be jailed without a formal charge & without the right to confront the witnesses orevidence against them. American citizens are now being held in military jails without charge and with-out a clear path of appeal for their indefinite confinement.• Hundreds of Arab, Muslim and South Asian men were rounded up in the Ashcroft raids followingSeptember 11, and held for weeks without charges until all were cleared of terrorism charges

6th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION

Hundreds of U.S. residents have been detained for months at a time, and denied access to the adviceand advocacy of an attorney. The Government may now monitor conversations between attorneys &clients in federal jails.• The Bush Administration filed papers in court that arguing that an American citizen held in a militaryjail without charge should be denied access to legal counsel because such access would interfere withthe process of his interrogation.

6th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL

The U.S. Government may now jail its residents and citizens indefinitely without charge & without a public trial.

8th AMENDMENT FREEDOM FROM CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENTS

The U.S. Government has taken into custody individuals they identify as “material witnesses,” trans-ported them across the country, and held them for months in solitary confinement without charge orcontact with their family.• According to the Justice Department’s own Inspector General, immigrant men rounded up in theAshcroft raids following September 11 and held in the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, NYwere subjected to a pattern of “physical and verbal abuse.”

14th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO EQUAL PROTECTION

Over 82,000 men from Arab, Muslim and South Asian countries registered with the Governmentunder the Special Registration program. Over 13,000 are now in deportation proceedings. Nonehave been charged with terrorism

 

[Avorysuds]

Let the passengers go through normal screening, and have armed military personnel on board. The cost would be less, it would be less invasive, and probably a lot safer.

Thanks for supporting Ron Paul's position.

 

[Rocko]

Let the passengers go through normal screening, and have armed military personnel on board. The cost would be less, it would be less invasive, and probably a lot safer.

Thanks for supporting Ron Paul's position.

When he's right, he's right.

 

[imbalance]

Ron Paul is also in favor of pilots being allowed to keep handguns in the cockpit which keeps government out of the equation alltogether. Think of the difference had the airline staff been able to counter the razor blades of the 911 hijackers with handguns. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight?

In any case, hijacking airliners turning them into missles will never happen again because everyday people are aware of what happened on 911. People won't just remain seated thinking they're hostages expecting the plane to land somewhere, they'd know it's a suicide mission. Every hijack attempt would end up like United 93 and jihadist terrorists know this so they aren't going to try it again.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Ron Paul is also in favor of pilots being allowed to keep handguns in the cockpit which keeps government out of the equation alltogether. Think of the difference had the airline staff been able to counter the razor blades of the 911 hijackers with handguns. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight?

In any case, hijacking airliners turning them into missles will never happen again because everyday people are aware of what happened on 911. People won't just remain seated thinking they're hostages expecting the plane to land somewhere, they'd know it's a suicide mission. Every hijack attempt would end up like United 93 and jihadist terrorists know this so they aren't going to try it again.

Wrong. Terrorists will ALWAYS target planes. Since 9/11 we've had several attempts to blow them up mid flight. And the attempts will continue because the amount of damage and casualities you can inflict for very little effort makes them much more effective.

 

[paulitician]

Can't trust Gingrich on anything. He'll have a different stance on this next week. Remember those warm & fuzzy Global Warming commercials he did with Nancy Pelosi? He's part of the old school check-pant Neocon fraternity. The GOP needs to start distancing themselves from phonies like Gingrich. I trust Ron Paul so i'll go with him.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Not really. Being able to fly on an airplane isn't a freedom, it's a service.

That has yet to be determined, the issue isn’t whether flying on an airplane is a ‘freedom,’ but whether agents of the state may conduct an unwarranted search without probable cause – which flying doesn’t constitute.

Does the state have a compelling reason to search you just because you’re planning on flying. What evidence does the state have that such searches are effective?

It's like saying that if a resturant requires you to wear shoes and a shirt, they are limiting your freedom.

A restaurant is a private entity, not subject to Constitutional restraint.

Horsecrap. You are using their service and part of that is to make sure you aren't carrying a bomb.

The searches aren’t being conducted by the airlines, they’re being conducted by the state.

Now, I think there are a lot of problems with the TSA. The political correctness (have to frisk Granny the same way your frisk Abdul.) the going nuts whenever a terrorist comes up with some obscure plan that didn't even work. I think it was thrown together in a hurry and the first thing they saw it as was a jobs program.

The above is evidence that the program is not effective and the state lacks justification to preempt Americans’ Fourth Amendment right “to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures…”

But please don't whine about your "freedom" being infringed upon.

The concerns are legitimate and hardly ‘whining.’

 

[JoeB131]

It's like saying that if a resturant requires you to wear shoes and a shirt, they are limiting your freedom.

A restaurant is a private entity, not subject to Constitutional restraint.

.’

Blah, blah blah... I just wanted to respond to this nonsense.

So if a resturant insists that they can refuse to serve black folks, the government shouldn't have anything to say about that, then...

Uh, no, not really.

Let's apply a little common sense here. You are going to fly. YOu should already be wearing shoes that are comfortable to remove, and there's a whole bunch of things you should know not to bring on your person. It's really simple enough.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It's like saying that if a resturant requires you to wear shoes and a shirt, they are limiting your freedom.

A restaurant is a private entity, not subject to Constitutional restraint.

.’

Blah, blah blah... I just wanted to respond to this nonsense.

So if a resturant insists that they can refuse to serve black folks, the government shouldn't have anything to say about that, then...

Uh, no, not really.

Let's apply a little common sense here. You are going to fly. YOu should already be wearing shoes that are comfortable to remove, and there's a whole bunch of things you should know not to bring on your person. It's really simple enough.

A restaurant can refuse service to anyone they chose to.

 

[paulitician]

I can't understand how anyone can trust Gingrich. That's just shocking to me. Go with Ron Paul.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I can't understand how anyone can trust Gingrich. That's just shocking to me. Go with Ron Paul.

I can't understand how you don't realize that Paul acts like were still in the 1700's. That's just crazy to me. Go with anyone who isn't a little insane.