Friendly Neighborhood Communist Passing Through

[Marxist_Trash]

Disclaimer 1: This isn't a troll account, I'm actually a Trotskyist.

Disclaimer 2: I'm not anti-religious, a proponent of the concept of "white privilege," or a member of the regressive left. Please don't claim I'm any of the above without knowing what I stand for.

With that out of the way, it's a pleasure to meet everyone here. I'm a college pre-medical/music student that's probably retarded so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt I suppose. But I'm here to provide a case for Marxism and discuss politics in my spare time without fear of ruining unrelated conversations. Seems like it should be fun; it's great to have a place where talking about politics isn't shoved off to the side like an unwanted guest.

Also to meet my anti-capitalist propaganda quota for the day: corporate America sucks, stick it to the man. Or something.

 

[aaronleland]

Welcome....


Been nice knowing ya'.

 

[Pete7469]

Just kill yourself.

If marxism worked the USSR would have liberated us from Reagan.

Venezuela would be exporting food, Cuba would be stopping us from floating to their shores, and the North Koreans would build fences to keep people out.

Collectivist governments fail because of nature, not just because it's a shitty idea.

 

[Marxist_Trash]

And if capitalism worked the third world wouldn't be starving, countries wouldn't be splitting apart at the seams due to ethnic tensions, and the world economy wouldn't be on the verge of imminent collapse. I understand your position and the damage Stalinism has done to the word Communist, but I feel as though the human race is capable of far better than second best.

I have a feeling i'm going to get utterly destroyed on this forum. Can't wait.

 

[TNHarley]

And if capitalism worked the third world wouldn't be starving, countries wouldn't be splitting apart at the seams due to ethnic tensions, and the world economy wouldn't be on the verge of imminent collapse. I understand your position and the damage Stalinism has done to the word Communist, but I feel as though the human race is capable of far better than second best.

I have a feeling i'm going to get utterly destroyed on this forum. Can't wait.

I actually dont have much of a problem with a few of his ideas. I think they would solve alot of the worlds problems. But we would also lose quality of life. In some aspects, at least.
I do NOT think "marxism" is at all capable of running world govts. ESPECIALLY This one with 320+M people. Alot of them being entitled moochers. Its just not viable.

 

[K9Buck]

Marxism has been a catastrophic failure. You obviously have nothing to teach me. You're going on "ignore". Good bye.

 

[Marxist_Trash]

I actually dont have much of a problem with a few of his ideas. I think they would solve alot of the worlds problems. But we would also lose quality of life. In some aspects, at least.
I do NOT think "marxism" is at all capable of running world govts. ESPECIALLY This one with 320+M people. Alot of them being entitled moochers. Its just not viable.

I feel you. But I think the issue with being able to apply Marxism today is a lot of people who call themselves Marxists are stuck reading Lenin's and Marx's treatises from a non-applicable time in history, and treating it as the absolute truth. Similar to biblical literalists. They ultimately fall flat in analyzing the modern world because they weren't written in the modern world. If it were tweaked and an actual, working plan was set into place, I think it's more than possible to run an international govt based on it. That's the main issue people have with it, right? The theoretical basis as it stands is impossible to pull into a practical application.

If anything the reason why I'm here isn't so much to propagandize as I am to learn. Marxist circles are so closed-minded about a lot of things it's actually painful, and I feel I need to understand both what's going on in the world, and how other people see the world, to make any kind of progress in making Marxism viable.

 

[TNHarley]

I feel you. But I think the issue with being able to apply Marxism today is a lot of people who call themselves Marxists are stuck reading Lenin's and Marx's treatises from a non-applicable time in history, and treating it as the absolute truth. Similar to biblical literalists. They ultimately fall flat in analyzing the modern world because they weren't written in the modern world. If it were tweaked and an actual, working plan was set into place, I think it's more than possible to run an international govt based on it. That's the main issue people have with it, right? The theoretical basis as it stands is impossible to pull into a practical application.

If anything the reason why I'm here isn't so much to propagandize as I am to learn. Marxist circles are so closed-minded about a lot of things it's actually painful, and I feel I need to understand both what's going on in the world, and how other people see the world, to make any kind of progress in making Marxism viable.

Any ideas for the bolded?

 

[SeaGal]

Welcome - I'm quite pleased with our Democratic Republic.

Anyway a true story, as a music student you might appreciate this - during the Christmas season a few years ago, I took my elderly mother to an outdoor performance of Christmas music by our local symphony orchestra. The guest conductor was an immigrant from Russia. One of the selections was from the Nutcracker suite - Dance of the Sugarplum Fairy - you may have heard of it.

Here's where it gets really interesting - the conductor introduced himself, told a little of his life - and shared with us the sad story that though this beautiful music was written by a fellow countryman, it was forbidden in his homeland - and he was deeply moved to be able to conduct a performance of Tchaikovsky's work in a little town square on a cold December night.

One more thing before I use more than my fair share of bandwidth...a few words from a former fellow traveler of yours and retired chess champion.

'I often talk about the need to restore a vision of America as a positive force in the world, a force for liberty and peace. The essential complement to this is having big positive dreams at home as well, of restoring America’s belief in ambition and risk, of innovation and exploration, of free markets and free people. America transformed the 20th century in its image with its unparalleled success. American technology created the modern world while American culture infused it and American values inspired it.'

Garry Kasparov: Hey, Bernie, Don’t Lecture Me About Socialism. I Lived Through It.

 

[Marxist_Trash]

Any ideas for the bolded?

I'm a dumbass so at the moment not a lot. I think the main part of why it's so difficult to start it up, however, has to do with the fact that the current state of the working class is one of subtle, rather than overt exploitation. I think it's easy for everyone to say that corporations and governments can do some horrific things in the name of profit and power, but they're swept under the rug, framed out of the picture by the media, not always directly affecting the affluent (though shrinking) middle class, etc. Nobody cares enough to do anything about it...not even necessarily something in a Marxist context, just anything at all. There isn't even a real labor party in the US for example, no real fight for workers...that's the reason why Trump managed to win the US election, he was giving workers something to look forward to, regardless of the fact that he was running for the leadership of an overtly pro-business party. In short, there's no real fire for reform, because life is mediocre for most in the developed world, and mediocre is something people are willing to live with. Ignite said fire, and Marxism can begin looking viable again.

As for a path to actually instituting it, it's something that i'm researching to understand a lot better before I even say anything about it. I have no answers in that regard. Or at least, only half-formed ideas. Like I mentioned, it's why I'm here to learn.

'I often talk about the need to restore a vision of America as a positive force in the world, a force for liberty and peace. The essential complement to this is having big positive dreams at home as well, of restoring America’s belief in ambition and risk, of innovation and exploration, of free markets and free people. America transformed the 20th century in its image with its unparalleled success. American technology created the modern world while American culture infused it and American values inspired it.'

Thank you for sharing words with me. I've never attempted to defend what happened after Stalin took control of Russia and I never will. There are a lot of people who will talk about how property became communal or something and that it was something worth defending, but imo it was farcical. I will be the first to admit that Stalinism is a failure.

But I don't think it's possible for America to be seen as a force for positivity, liberty, or peace right now. It has the most well-funded army in the world, with bases scattered across the globe to keep dibs on American financial interests. It instigates conflict more than it resolves it. There's also a cancerous sort of hatred being bred in every level of american politics, as well as intra-class animosity, which rules out the positivity part. As for liberty? I think it can be defended, I am grateful to live in a place with robust protection of freedom of speech and gun rights. But true Marxism is as much of a proponent of liberty as a democratic republic. Arguably even more, as its ideal form is a government that starts with local democracy first. A bottom up, rather than the top down approach of the federal republic. After all, I think it's safe to say that many of us feel extraordinarily left out from what goes on in Congress.

I've got stuff to do atm so I can't respond to anything else immediately, but it was a pleasure meeting you all!

 

[Pete7469]

And if capitalism worked the third world wouldn't be starving, countries wouldn't be splitting apart at the seams due to ethnic tensions, and the world economy wouldn't be on the verge of imminent collapse. I understand your position and the damage Stalinism has done to the word Communist, but I feel as though the human race is capable of far better than second best.

I have a feeling i'm going to get utterly destroyed on this forum. Can't wait.

Oh yeah, because the third world is exclusively governed by free market constitutional republics rather than despotic oligarchies that deliberately prevent their lowest classes from achieving a higher standard of living.

I'll give you a break in that you probably are idealistic and want more prosperity around the world and the elimination of poverty, but if you believe that can be achieved through marxist commissars collectivizing the production of society you are going to get destroyed in any forum except leftist echo chambers like Huff Po. You may as well worship Santa Claus.

You're probably not a bad dude, and I apologize for coming right out of the box recommending a retroactive self abortion. I've just seen too many commie pukes come and go. You should ignore most of what I post because most of what I do is belittle leftists. Engage others that may be able to expand your view and encourage you to think. You will find this forum very valuable in that case because it is an unfiltered and unregulated free flow of ideas. I think it's the best on the internet.

So in closing, welcome to USMB.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Disclaimer 1: This isn't a troll account, I'm actually a Trotskyist.

Disclaimer 2: I'm not anti-religious, a proponent of the concept of "white privilege," or a member of the regressive left. Please don't claim I'm any of the above without knowing what I stand for.

With that out of the way, it's a pleasure to meet everyone here. I'm a college pre-medical/music student that's probably retarded so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt I suppose. But I'm here to provide a case for Marxism and discuss politics in my spare time without fear of ruining unrelated conversations. Seems like it should be fun; it's great to have a place where talking about politics isn't shoved off to the side like an unwanted guest.

Also to meet my anti-capitalist propaganda quota for the day: corporate America sucks, stick it to the man. Or something.

Not sure how you can claim to be a communist and not a leftist at the same time, but all the same.

 

[Leo123]

And if capitalism worked the third world wouldn't be starving, countries wouldn't be splitting apart at the seams due to ethnic tensions, and the world economy wouldn't be on the verge of imminent collapse. I understand your position and the damage Stalinism has done to the word Communist, but I feel as though the human race is capable of far better than second best.

I have a feeling i'm going to get utterly destroyed on this forum. Can't wait.

Oh yeah, because the third world is exclusively governed by free market constitutional republics rather than despotic oligarchies that deliberately prevent their lowest classes from achieving a higher standard of living.

I'll give you a break in that you probably are idealistic and want more prosperity around the world and the elimination of poverty, but if you believe that can be achieved through marxist commissars collectivizing the production of society you are going to get destroyed in any forum except leftist echo chambers like Huff Po. You may as well worship Santa Claus.

You're probably not a bad dude, and I apologize for coming right out of the box recommending a retroactive self abortion. I've just seen too many commie pukes come and go. You should ignore most of what I post because most of what I do is belittle leftists. Engage others that may be able to expand your view and encourage you to think. You will find this forum very valuable in that case because it is an unfiltered and unregulated free flow of ideas. I think it's the best on the internet.

So in closing, welcome to USMB.

Excellent reply!! Facts always 'trump' idealistic Communist/Oligarcy/Dictator regime propaganda for those willing to see them. For instance, in the U.S. we have a 2nd amendment that gives 'We Tho People' the RIGHT to have a standing militia which is: "an organization that operates like an army but whose members are not professional soldiers"....

And...even with that RIGHT leftist-commies want US to be limited to hunting guns. Per the verbiage in the 2nd amendment (which I just posted) We The People should be able to have automatic weapons, grenades, tanks, etc. The tyrants (mostly Democrats) in America have been successful in propagating and promoting their false premise that law abiding citizens will somehow start killing each other if these armaments are made legal when the TRUTH is that IF these weapons of war were made available to the private sector they would be used as a sledge hammer against radical, leftist dogma that permeates and rots our society today.

 

[SeaGal]

But true Marxism is as much of a proponent of liberty as a democratic republic. Arguably even more, as its ideal form is a government that starts with local democracy first. A bottom up, rather than the top down approach of the federal republic. After all, I think it's safe to say that many of us feel extraordinarily left out from what goes on in Congress.

I've got stuff to do atm so I can't respond to anything else immediately, but it was a pleasure meeting you all!

I have heard this reasoning before...'it hasn't been done right'. But it has been done 'right', and the results have been the same. The fatal flaw in Marx's theory - he fails to account for human nature...and fails to identify the cause of human misery. The promises made by communism on paper never materialize in practice. Marx theory in practice will always allow the bullies to take charge - our form of government is designed to keep the bullies at bay.

Pol Pot, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro - may have formed classless, stateless societies but never could they have been considered humane.

Marxism attempts to fundamentally transform human nature - a constitutional republic seeks to mitigate the worst of it. Not perfect, no - but you do realize that a global Utopia could exist only with brutal and rigid regulation, unchallengeable dogma...'crushing all that is human from humanity.' (Huxley).

The failure of Marx theory to relieve human suffering is not in the flawed application, it is the theory itself that is flawed.



.

 

[Marxist_Trash]

Oh yeah, because the third world is exclusively governed by free market constitutional republics rather than despotic oligarchies that deliberately prevent their lowest classes from achieving a higher standard of living.

I'll give you a break in that you probably are idealistic and want more prosperity around the world and the elimination of poverty, but if you believe that can be achieved through marxist commissars collectivizing the production of society you are going to get destroyed in any forum except leftist echo chambers like Huff Po. You may as well worship Santa Claus.

You're probably not a bad dude, and I apologize for coming right out of the box recommending a retroactive self abortion. I've just seen too many commie pukes come and go. You should ignore most of what I post because most of what I do is belittle leftists. Engage others that may be able to expand your view and encourage you to think. You will find this forum very valuable in that case because it is an unfiltered and unregulated free flow of ideas. I think it's the best on the internet.

So in closing, welcome to USMB.

Ty much. I'm glad there's still a vibrant culture of free speech alive somewhere at least...hopefully I'll be able to remain open-minded as you suggest. I'll be honest when I say I used to scoff at a lot of what the right said. But I've taken the time to watch people like Milo, some stuff from Prager U, even Alex Jones once or twice. Though I don't always agree, I find myself understanding better why the right exists and what it stands for, and even adopting some of their standpoints on certain issues.

Not sure how you can claim to be a communist and not a leftist at the same time, but all the same.

I say it like that because I'm simply not a part of the mainstream left in America. The "left" is now a pitiful excuse to get votes out of minorities and bleeding hearts instead of treating all workers with the respect they deserve, regardless of color or nationality. The American Left is capitalistic and pro-business...making it not really a political left at all, in my opinion...i'd categorize it as more center right. And certainly, their attempts to contain free speech and gun rights is blatantaly authoritarian rather than libertarian. Also, as I mentioned before, there really is no labor party left in existence...even the ones that call themselves labor parties (looking at Jeremy Corbyn's dumbass especially). Interestingly enough the right is what taught me much of this before I ever became a Marxist lol.

Excellent reply!! Facts always 'trump' idealistic Communist/Oligarcy/Dictator regime propaganda for those willing to see them. For instance, in the U.S. we have a 2nd amendment that gives 'We Tho People' the RIGHT to have a standing militia which is: "an organization that operates like an army but whose members are not professional soldiers"....

And...even with that RIGHT leftist-commies want US to be limited to hunting guns. Per the verbiage in the 2nd amendment (which I just posted) We The People should be able to have automatic weapons, grenades, tanks, etc. The tyrants (mostly Democrats) in America have been successful in propagating and promoting their false premise that law abiding citizens will somehow start killing each other if these armaments are made legal when the TRUTH is that IF these weapons of war were made available to the private sector they would be used as a sledge hammer against radical, leftist dogma that permeates and rots our society today.

I'm pro-gun rights. Anyone actually on the left I feel shouldn't be afraid of giving the average joe power.

As for grenades and tanks, seems a bit extreme to me tho lol, would have to think about it somewhat. But at any rate, the "radical leftist dogma" is in my opinion just a veil for the doctrine of globalism. Corporations prefer people to be globalistic because it stabilizes the economy, providing room for more profit to be made. Thus, it's something that's promoted ad nauseum under the guise of everyone needing to love each other. In reality, it's just a way for the corporate elite to maintain their stranglehold on the working class. At least in my opinion...just I believe that in a world where most rational actors are self-serving, the elite would not promote a doctrine without it serving them in some way.

I have heard this reasoning before...'it hasn't been done right'. But it has been done 'right', and the results have been the same. The fatal flaw in Marx's theory - he fails to account for human nature...and fails to identify the cause of human misery. The promises made by communism on paper never materialize in practice. Marx theory in practice will always allow the bullies to take charge - our form of government is designed to keep the bullies at bay.

Pol Pot, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro - may have formed classless, stateless societies but never could they have been considered humane.

Marxism attempts to fundamentally transform human nature - a constitutional republic seeks to mitigate the worst of it. Not perfect, no - but you do realize that a global Utopia could exist only with brutal and rigid regulation, unchallengeable dogma...'crushing all that is human from humanity.' (Huxley).

The failure of Marx theory to relieve human suffering is not in the flawed application, it is the theory itself that is flawed.

Perhaps this is contradictory and idealistic, but I've never associated Marxism in the purely ideological form with authoritarianism. It's meant to give the working class power. The little guys at the bottom of the corporate pyramid flipping everything upside down. If anything I think it goes very well with human nature; all rational actors are self-serving as I mentioned, therefore why wouldn't the working class try and gain power from those above them that selfishly abuse it? And wouldn't it be better if power were spread out amongst a large group of people instead of a very small plutocratic elite? That's the foundation of democracy, and why many believe it to be one of humanity's greatest achievements. I just think Marxism is trying to take that aspect of it a step further.

It'd be stupid of me to say that Communism has worked. But I don't think it's an idea worth giving up on. I dunno, perhaps I'll be able to come up with something during my time learning here and present it. I'm always happy to be critiqued, just helps me iron out the flaws in my thinking.

Or maybe I'll throw it all out the window, I dunno lol. I've jumped from a lot of different ideologies in the past, it's quite possible I end up being very different after reading and writing here.

 

[Leo123]

I'm pro-gun rights. Anyone actually on the left I feel shouldn't be afraid of giving the average joe power.

As for grenades and tanks, seems a bit extreme to me tho lol, would have to think about it somewhat. [/quote]

A Militia is a non government-military force. Therefore, they are entitled to the same weapons as the government military if they can afford them.

But at any rate, the "radical leftist dogma" is in my opinion just a veil for the doctrine of globalism. Corporations prefer people to be globalistic because it stabilizes the economy, providing room for more profit to be made.

Corporations go where the most money can be made. That's what they do.

Thus, it's something that's promoted ad nauseum under the guise of everyone needing to love each other. In reality, it's just a way for the corporate elite to maintain their stranglehold on the working class. At least in my opinion...just I believe that in a world where most rational actors are self-serving, the elite would not promote a doctrine without it serving them in some way.

Correct...but there is nothing wrong with rational actors being free to conduct their businesses for the most profit.

 

[Pete7469]

Ty much. I'm glad there's still a vibrant culture of free speech alive somewhere at least...hopefully I'll be able to remain open-minded as you suggest. I'll be honest when I say I used to scoff at a lot of what the right said. But I've taken the time to watch people like Milo, some stuff from Prager U, even Alex Jones once or twice. Though I don't always agree, I find myself understanding better why the right exists and what it stands for, and even adopting some of their standpoints on certain issues.

I would not call Alex "Captain Bullshit" Jones a "right winger".

He is a total fraud. Maybe not a leftist bed wetter either, but not someone who is promoting Constitutional limits on government. He promotes himself. He agitates malcontents who embarrass those of us who believe in constitutional restraints on federal power, and marginalizes the endeavor by attaching himself to anti-globalist movements and candidates.

Someone who has spent over a decade ranting about government agents blowing up their own building and creating 9/11 is not an advocate of truth. In his own deposition in a custody suit he had to admit he was a fraud.

If you believe the welfare of an individual takes priority over that of the state, I doubt you will embrace "marxism" for long. I recommend reading the book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Robert Heinlein. I had the same sort of "marxist" beliefs you shared before reading it. I even supported more gun control in those days.

Of course prattle about civilians stock piling grenades and maintaining tanks is silly, but we absolutely should be empowered with the right to own individual small arms for a variety of reasons. Among them is the capacity to repel criminals and rouge government agents. The purges of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, et al. could not have taken place had the peasantry been armed.

I can respect your belief the "workers" in the country are being "exploited". I would not call the political powers that maintain the status quo "center right" though. I'd call them fascists. Fascism is NOT "right wing", I don't care what bed wetters say. It's a system of strict centralized government that can dictate wages, limit profits, forbid or FORCE unions, not just make them voluntary and provide a nanny state.

I don't want to go on a long rant here, because there are moonbats to insult, but I appreciate your willingness to seek the opinions of others and determination think for yourself. You're smarter than you give yourself credit for, and a fucking intellectual juggernaut compared to pieces of shit like these assholes...

ProgressivePatriot

JakeStarkey

NYcarbineer

deanrd


.

 

[Kat]

Guys, please remember this is an Intro thread.

 

[SeaGal]

Or maybe I'll throw it all out the window, I dunno lol. I've jumped from a lot of different ideologies in the past, it's quite possible I end up being very different after reading and writing here.

Your best teacher in this case may be history. I'd be happy to converse further, but we've been 'gently reminded' that this isn't the place. See ya in politics...or philosophy.

 

[Penelope]

And if capitalism worked the third world wouldn't be starving, countries wouldn't be splitting apart at the seams due to ethnic tensions, and the world economy wouldn't be on the verge of imminent collapse. I understand your position and the damage Stalinism has done to the word Communist, but I feel as though the human race is capable of far better than second best.

I have a feeling i'm going to get utterly destroyed on this forum. Can't wait.

Oh yeah, because the third world is exclusively governed by free market constitutional republics rather than despotic oligarchies that deliberately prevent their lowest classes from achieving a higher standard of living.

I'll give you a break in that you probably are idealistic and want more prosperity around the world and the elimination of poverty, but if you believe that can be achieved through marxist commissars collectivizing the production of society you are going to get destroyed in any forum except leftist echo chambers like Huff Po. You may as well worship Santa Claus.

You're probably not a bad dude, and I apologize for coming right out of the box recommending a retroactive self abortion. I've just seen too many commie pukes come and go. You should ignore most of what I post because most of what I do is belittle leftists. Engage others that may be able to expand your view and encourage you to think. You will find this forum very valuable in that case because it is an unfiltered and unregulated free flow of ideas. I think it's the best on the internet.

So in closing, welcome to USMB.

Excellent reply!! Facts always 'trump' idealistic Communist/Oligarcy/Dictator regime propaganda for those willing to see them. For instance, in the U.S. we have a 2nd amendment that gives 'We Tho People' the RIGHT to have a standing militia which is: "an organization that operates like an army but whose members are not professional soldiers"....

And...even with that RIGHT leftist-commies want US to be limited to hunting guns. Per the verbiage in the 2nd amendment (which I just posted) We The People should be able to have automatic weapons, grenades, tanks, etc. The tyrants (mostly Democrats) in America have been successful in propagating and promoting their false premise that law abiding citizens will somehow start killing each other if these armaments are made legal when the TRUTH is that IF these weapons of war were made available to the private sector they would be used as a sledge hammer against radical, leftist dogma that permeates and rots our society today.

the 2nd amendment is not needed anymore, we have the NG and the cops.