French call for stronger EU to keep America in check

[CSM]

whow....never see so much stupid things in only one message.



Take it part by part :



No. I mean : look at the good sides ofr france and at the bad for USA. both made and make still good and bad things.
But you only look to the bad sides opf france, and to the good of USA : for you, USA has no default, is the most perfect nation, and France is a fucking nation, condamned to be destroy.....look to some foreigner newspappers, ask some europeans, who are not for USA and not against : USA are not the most perfect nation.



never say that.
But the fact is that you REFUSE to the the TRUTH when this truth is good for France, when it give the good role to france, you refuse, and say that i'm stupid. But it is not me : fior History, it taken from BOOKS. some written by english or US guys....
And if some Europeans think that the US guys are dummies, it is because, and admit it, in a lot of central states, the young people are not rerally enlightned...Some TV report ask youngs from a city in Montana, they ignore where was france, who was UK's pirme minister, who was Jacques Chirac.....
Some Us citizens are unnable to put Spain on a world map !
Fortunatly, on the coast, it is often better, like in NY.
But be sure, I don't globalize to the whole USA.


never say it was agood thing. I just say that it had not only bad sides. Some sides were good.
Do you wabnt an example dear :
the US territory was a british colony for the east, a french for the middle, a spanish for the south.
And the uS nation came from the british colony. So.....
the colonialism give to USA progress......if this phenomene was not here, USA would have not exist.

Another good point : France forbide strictly the slavery in 1848 in the french colonies. So, no more slavery in 2/5 of the african territory....


But of course, colonialism is really bad for the colonized people if you think to the right of these people to chose their own way.
this is a big bad side.




Most generous people ?
I believe that the people who give the more money to the poor countries are the scandinavian countries and France, and some others....not USA.

DOn't forget that the US progress in science, who are awesome, were authorized by the european progress in all ther History.
Don't believe that only USA did something for Humanity.....

Why do you speak of the "Grande Armée" ? pof Légion Etrangère ?
first, know that USA are not against the idea to have a corps like the Légion etrangère....

Second : know, dear, that the "Grande Armée" came from the french revolutionnary army, an army of citizen, a national army.
Maybe more than the US continental army of 1776
So, the french military is made of citizens....WWI and WWII : all the french male in age to wear uniform >> army.
And for Legion : when a soldier is wounded >> he become french citizen - when he is not -

And the Grande Armée at the end had some foreigners, from the occupied territory.
But the Grande amrée was french.
in 1805, at Austerlitz : only French...

And UAS are not in good position to criticized to foreign way of war : during the Secession war, the Union use a lot of ZOUAVES...... the Zouaves came from the french army : the US spectator of Crimea War were surpised and admirated in frony of these soldiers, in Sebastopol >> USA wanted to have their own corp of Zouave.
And for the Gen. BLENKER division ? in Bull run ? all foreigners.


You're too proud of your nation, you don't see the troubles, refuse to see the truth when it hurts your conception of the perfect USA nation......

I am going to say this just once. I have never called you stupid. In fact I have never called your posts stupid. I try very hard not to resort to name calling. If you persist in calling me names, I will place you on ignore.

And once again, I say that the things you accuse me of (placing the USA first, thinking it is better than other nations etc...in other words, nationalism) is the very thing YOU are guilty of (if nationalism is something to feel guilty over!). I do not believe that anyone should feel guilty for loving their country.

Your understanding of the people of the United States is sorely lacking as evidenced by your posts.

And lastly, I could give a rats ass what the rest of the world thinks of the USA. Am I arrogant? Probably. Do I think the USA is perfect? NO; but it's a hell of a lot better than any other country in the world today. Do I think France and most of the European nations are a bunch of lying, cheating underhanded snakes? You bet I do.

 

[dilloduck]

whow....never see so much stupid things in only one message.



Take it part by part :



No. I mean : look at the good sides ofr france and at the bad for USA. both made and make still good and bad things.
But you only look to the bad sides opf france, and to the good of USA : for you, USA has no default, is the most perfect nation, and France is a fucking nation, condamned to be destroy.....look to some foreigner newspappers, ask some europeans, who are not for USA and not against : USA are not the most perfect nation.



never say that.
But the fact is that you REFUSE to the the TRUTH when this truth is good for France, when it give the good role to france, you refuse, and say that i'm stupid. But it is not me : fior History, it taken from BOOKS. some written by english or US guys....
And if some Europeans think that the US guys are dummies, it is because, and admit it, in a lot of central states, the young people are not rerally enlightned...Some TV report ask youngs from a city in Montana, they ignore where was france, who was UK's pirme minister, who was Jacques Chirac.....
Some Us citizens are unnable to put Spain on a world map !
Fortunatly, on the coast, it is often better, like in NY.
But be sure, I don't globalize to the whole USA.


never say it was agood thing. I just say that it had not only bad sides. Some sides were good.
Do you wabnt an example dear :
the US territory was a british colony for the east, a french for the middle, a spanish for the south.
And the uS nation came from the british colony. So.....
the colonialism give to USA progress......if this phenomene was not here, USA would have not exist.

Another good point : France forbide strictly the slavery in 1848 in the french colonies. So, no more slavery in 2/5 of the african territory....


But of course, colonialism is really bad for the colonized people if you think to the right of these people to chose their own way.
this is a big bad side.




Most generous people ?
I believe that the people who give the more money to the poor countries are the scandinavian countries and France, and some others....not USA.

DOn't forget that the US progress in science, who are awesome, were authorized by the european progress in all ther History.
Don't believe that only USA did something for Humanity.....

Why do you speak of the "Grande Armée" ? pof Légion Etrangère ?
first, know that USA are not against the idea to have a corps like the Légion etrangère....

Second : know, dear, that the "Grande Armée" came from the french revolutionnary army, an army of citizen, a national army.
Maybe more than the US continental army of 1776
So, the french military is made of citizens....WWI and WWII : all the french male in age to wear uniform >> army.
And for Legion : when a soldier is wounded >> he become french citizen - when he is not -

And the Grande Armée at the end had some foreigners, from the occupied territory.
But the Grande amrée was french.
in 1805, at Austerlitz : only French...

And UAS are not in good position to criticized to foreign way of war : during the Secession war, the Union use a lot of ZOUAVES...... the Zouaves came from the french army : the US spectator of Crimea War were surpised and admirated in frony of these soldiers, in Sebastopol >> USA wanted to have their own corp of Zouave.
And for the Gen. BLENKER division ? in Bull run ? all foreigners.


You're too proud of your nation, you don't see the troubles, refuse to see the truth when it hurts your conception of the perfect USA nation......

We have posted MANY things wrong with our country on here----Why do you ignore that? Are you unable to change your perspective on Americans? I think so

 

[Said1]

Said1 :
UK was in palestine, now big trouble.
France and UK were in africa, now big trouble.
In algeria, big and awful atrocities in the 90's.
But it is not the fault of France, or of the ancient colonial power. Religious problem.
You nkow, these country were under the rule of France, UK, or others. So, not ethnical problems too, not a lot, because the colonial power make a police mission. Now, these countries are independant. For some of them, they fight for their independance.
So, they are sovereign. France has not the right to put her nose in their own business.
I want to say that you can't say that France or UK are respàonsable of the actual events, or not of all these events.
Some have religious origins, who appear afetr the independabce >> no relation with the colonialsim. Maybe even, the colonial power had maybe stop the progression of this fanatism. maybe not. Who knows ?

In some instances you're right, they are religious problems, often times made worse by interference from colonial powers giving certain groups rights and recognition that they wouldn't other wise have unless they fought for it themselves, which does have relation to colonialism. Western Europe isn't the only place to look for examples of religious manipulation - The Treaty of Kuchuk (177? I'm bad with dates) with Russia and The Otto empire is a good example of using minority religious groups to maintain influence in Christian dominated areas of the Ottoman Empire.

I would have to say stopping fanaticism, is reaching a little too far. Some religious sects and movements met their creation as a direct response to fear of western domination, and loss of religious culture - direct response to colonialism! Some of these fanatics are still around today.

For the most part, I would say a lot of conflicts are/were mostly tribal and territorial matters, made worse by tribal manipulation and super imposed boarders drawn by colonial powers (I'm referring to Africa here). Look at the some of the conflicts today, some are Muslims fighting Muslims, but they are of different tribes fighting for territory and/or overall dominance, not much to do with religion. You're right though, a lot of this stuff did exist before colonialism, BUT the colonists used it to their advantage.

 

[padisha emperor]

CSM

I am going to say this just once. I have never called you stupid. In fact I have never called your posts stupid. I try very hard not to resort to name calling. If you persist in calling me names, I will place you on ignore.

And once again, I say that the things you accuse me of (placing the USA first, thinking it is better than other nations etc...in other words, nationalism) is the very thing YOU are guilty of (if nationalism is something to feel guilty over!). I do not believe that anyone should feel guilty for loving their country.

Your understanding of the people of the United States is sorely lacking as evidenced by your posts.

And lastly, I could give a rats ass what the rest of the world thinks of the USA. Am I arrogant? Probably. Do I think the USA is perfect? NO; but it's a hell of a lot better than any other country in the world today. Do I think France and most of the European nations are a bunch of lying, cheating underhanded snakes? You bet I do.

For the names, sorry, but you make me angry.

For my poor understanding of the US, maybe, but I don't thin you're representative of the whole US society....
NAd I hope you don't believe that your understanding of the European countries and of France is better than mine for the US......

Amazing, your last sentence......
in Europe, we believe that USA is a country who want to rule all over the world, new kind of colonialism, who lie to make wars, who cheat with international rules...


And again, abvout the french army : you mean that a lot of foreigners are in, but no : only in the Foreign Legion, and less than 50% are really foreigners.
USA use often foreigners : American Independance war(european advisors, like La Fayette, the polish Kosciuszko..........), secession war(Blenker's division....)....

So, why did you speak of that ?

 

[no1tovote4]

no1vote4, i think you miss the point.
Some ladies were rape, but not by the french soldiers : FRENCH ladies were rape, by Ivorians, NOT by French.......
The french soldiers rape nobody.........





For the ivory coast intervention, and for those you say it is illegal and illegitim :

France receive a mandate from UNO, to act and send troops in this country
France did an interventin of "international police".
This kind of intervention os admitted by the International laws : France can send the troops to protect the lives of the french citizens in this country, if there is a big danger.
france did it in 1978, in Kolwezi : the Legion's paras were dropped upon this city of Zaïre, to save the French.

I think you missed the point, there were atrocities committed by the French troops and you want to throw stones. You are living in a glass house and are ignoring the atrocities committed by the French while blaming the entire world's troubles on the US.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32276

The United Nations debate over Iraq has been a most welcome diversion, as France has long managed to support and direct bloody dictatorships, genocide and at-will military interventions across the map of Africa with self-assured impunity.

Your country commits the exact same acts for which you are condemning the US? I understand the US has much to work on, but you ignore your own to blast us?!

As I said before, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. The Iron Hand of the French army gives Africa the beating of their life and you are most worried about what the US is doing.... Priorities, you can do best by changing the way your country effects the world rather than attempting to lead ours in your own direction.

 

[CSM]

CSM


For the names, sorry, but you make me angry.

For my poor understanding of the US, maybe, but I don't thin you're representative of the whole US society....
NAd I hope you don't believe that your understanding of the European countries and of France is better than mine for the US......

Amazing, your last sentence......
in Europe, we believe that USA is a country who want to rule all over the world, new kind of colonialism, who lie to make wars, who cheat with international rules...


And again, abvout the french army : you mean that a lot of foreigners are in, but no : only in the Foreign Legion, and less than 50% are really foreigners.
USA use often foreigners : American Independance war(european advisors, like La Fayette, the polish Kosciuszko..........), secession war(Blenker's division....)....

So, why did you speak of that ?

Rather childish to resort to name calling when some person makes you angry...just an observation. you are correct, I neither speak for nor represent the whole of US society...nor do I wish to. I am very, very glad that I am allowed to hold my own views and opinions without fear of reprisal. I will also say that I am not unique either. I dont see a lot of Americans emigrating to France!

I do not pretend to understand France or any other European nation, but I do understand their policies and their impact on US national interests which leads very nicely into your description in the next sentence which I firmly believe describes very accurately France's actions regarding Iraq and the UN sanctions. Also, It has been publicly stated that France views the EU as a counterbalance to US power...a nice way of saying they are at odds with the US and its policies. An economic war, but a war geared towards world domination through economics.

I referred to the Foriegn Legion only to point out that the French are not above exploiting non-French people to do their dirty work. It is well known that the French Foreign Legion gets the hardest and most dangerous military tasks...the ones that the French military sees as necessary but are unwilling to spend French blood to accomplish.

Yes, there are many many different nationalities that have been and still are in the US military. We are a nation comprised of many nationalities from all over the world. I do not view this as a bad thing. The fact that the French military does not allow anyone but French citizens into its military (other than the foreign Legion) speaks volumes about French nationalism, in my opinion.

 

[Said1]

I referred to the Foriegn Legion only to point out that the French are not above exploiting non-French people to do their dirty work. It is well known that the French Foreign Legion gets the hardest and most dangerous military tasks...the ones that the French military sees as necessary but are unwilling to spend French blood to accomplish.

Yes, there are many many different nationalities that have been and still are in the US military. We are a nation comprised of many nationalities from all over the world. I do not view this as a bad thing. The fact that the French military does not allow anyone but French citizens into its military (other than the foreign Legion) speaks volumes about French nationalism, in my opinion.

Great post! Would give you points but I can't yet!!

 

[padisha emperor]

no1vote4 : your link is real, of course, but seems to come from a anti-french site......


CSM :

Rather childish to resort to name calling when some person makes you angry...just an observation. you are correct, I neither speak for nor represent the whole of US society...nor do I wish to. I am very, very glad that I am allowed to hold my own views and opinions without fear of reprisal. I will also say that I am not unique either. I dont see a lot of Americans emigrating to France!

I do not pretend to understand France or any other European nation, but I do understand their policies and their impact on US national interests which leads very nicely into your description in the next sentence which I firmly believe describes very accurately France's actions regarding Iraq and the UN sanctions. Also, It has been publicly stated that France views the EU as a counterbalance to US power...a nice way of saying they are at odds with the US and its policies. An economic war, but a war geared towards world domination through economics.

I referred to the Foriegn Legion only to point out that the French are not above exploiting non-French people to do their dirty work. It is well known that the French Foreign Legion gets the hardest and most dangerous military tasks...the ones that the French military sees as necessary but are unwilling to spend French blood to accomplish.

Yes, there are many many different nationalities that have been and still are in the US military. We are a nation comprised of many nationalities from all over the world. I do not view this as a bad thing. The fact that the French military does not allow anyone but French citizens into its military (other than the foreign Legion) speaks volumes about French nationalism, in my opinion.

maybe not a lot of American immigrate in France, but some do.
pierre Salinger, I believe. And lot of others.
Lot of UK's citizens come to live in France.......it shows that it is not a so awful country......



France consider that EU can be a counterbalance to US.
Yes. other countries think that.
Now, in the wolrd, there is ONE might : USA.
2 mights is better, for the concurrence, the competition.....
China can be this 2nd might.
EU too. When the propblems will be solved, soon I hope, the EU will be not far from US, even maybe 1st. but it is not the case now, so....


For the 2 last patrs of your message :

For the last time, more han half of the Foreign Legion are French. The Officers are french. When a soldier is wounded, he become French >> so, french blood.
the fact that Legion is often sent is that ther Lzegion is the best army coprs all over the world. Better even than the Navy Seals (and Seals are commandos, the Légion is a regular force)
So, it is not to let bleeding foreign blood. Come in a legion's camp : they are a entire part of the french amry. The french amry respect the Legion. the french people love them. Everybody consider that if a french foreign legion's memebr who is really foreigners is killed in action, a french is dead. Not a foreigner.

For the last part :
You speak of nationality, yes, but I speak of the fact that some of the soldiers of Union belong to OTHER countries. La Fayette, or the blenker division : not a part of the US melting pot, but more like mercenaries.

Not sure that the US army accept the french, or the english.
The fact that the French military does not allow anyone but French citizens into its military (other than the foreign Legion) speaks volumes about French nationalism, in my opinion.

?????
what about french nationalism ?
Do you know the french conception of the nation ? of Ernest RENAN ? the nation is the reunion of the people who want to live together.
Show me a larger conception....
But maybe I have bad understand your meaning. Can you explain to me ?

 

[no1tovote4]

no1vote4 : your link is real, of course, but seems to come from a anti-french site......

That does not make it any less accurate. Actually it isn't anti-french, more like anti-left. It is one way we can actually get information that isn't always slanted leftwards.

And it doesn't negate my point. Attempting to bash the US for actions that your government also takes part in is simply hypocritical. You won't see me on a French site telling people how to run their government, I come to a US site to talk about how my government is doing things. It might be best to make your own government perfect before attempting to change ours to your liking.

If all your government wants to do is be a counterpoint because they think there should be one regardless of shared belief then it simply is working against what it believes. If it never does believe in the same things then it should leave our mutually beneficial NATO.

You too could take part in the same power with the US but simply chose to be against them only to be contrary, just for contrariness' sake not for logical and real differences.

 

[padisha emperor]

Oh...
and the Legion is not the only corps who is always sent in operation.
the TROUPES de MARINE are on the battlefield of all the french battles. Everywhere the french army is engaged >> Troupes de Marine. (Indochina, Algeria,Gulf, Rwanda, Kosovo, Ivory Coast.............)

 

[padisha emperor]

No1vote4 : for you, the left corrupt the information ?
What about the right ? the neocon, I think do the same !

 

[no1tovote4]

No1vote4 : for you, the left corrupt the information ?
What about the right ? the neocon, I think do the same !

Right, and therefore it is best to get more than one information source rather than trusting what you have been spoon fed by those who hold the same opinion.

As I said before information doesn't become inaccurate because it comes from a site that doesn't hold your opinion. Sometimes it is more accurate than you want to believe.

 

[padisha emperor]

of course, several information sources is best than 1, above all when this one is like your opinion.

For your site :
I don't see it bad, but : imagine an anti Bush site : all the things you refuse will be here. You won't believe them because the ideology makes that they are maybe not correct.
I meant that your link's ideology MAY change the truth to kick France.
But it can be also correct.
I will search myself on the web, and will see

 

[no1tovote4]

of course, several information sources is best than 1, above all when this one is like your opinion.

For your site :
I don't see it bad, but : imagine an anti Bush site : all the things you refuse will be here. You won't believe them because the ideology makes that they are maybe not correct.
I meant that your link's ideology MAY change the truth to kick France.
But it can be also correct.
I will search myself on the web, and will see

Fair 'nuff.

But an Anti-Bush site wouldn't necessarily be against my opinions. While I thought he was better than Kerry, and ended up voting for his reelection, it was only slightly better in my opinion.

 

[padisha emperor]

Anti Bush, or anything else....
Anti USA, if you prefer >> no question of opinion.

and : Fair 'nuff ? what does it mean ?

 

[no1tovote4]

Anti Bush, or anything else....
Anti USA, if you prefer >> no question of opinion.

and : Fair 'nuff ? what does it mean ?

It means fair enough. Sorry, I used a coloquialism when clear language is necessary.

 

[j07950]

I was first alarmed by how stupid your comment was but then I saw you were only 20 years old and having myself lived in the US for 6 years I know how much young peole are ignorent...It's not your fault in a way, they only teach you about the history they want you to know. I did the whole junior high school and high school thing in NJ and it was a shock when I went back home. You guys are ignorent about what's out there, you believe everything you see on TV, and knowing that most of the media is controlled by your government or at least pressured into going it's way it's very scary. I've met a lot of americans who have gone around travelling the world and they now have such a different opinion, they are so much open minded and aware of what is really out there, and totally against the Bush policy, because that's all it is really. No one (from europe) hates the American people, we've got nothing against you people, I loved the people I met while living in the US, they are some of the nicest people I've ever met, all we disaprove of is the government in place. Clinton for instance was very much liked (appart from his "I did not have sexual intercourse blah blah, but then again he's a man like any other, he needs some love...). So don't think we've got a problem with america, we only do with the people who are governing it, because in the end, you have the right to be governed by your own people, only that those people in place today don't rightfully represent you. No hard feelings... Oh and if you wanted to attack France or any other country for that matter I'm sure you'd go through it as fast as you did with Irak right? How many soldiers and civilians have been killed since? Oh and is it over? Nevermind...
Wars are ugly, I think people will agree on that, think peace and stop being stupid and saying things such as "what are we gonna do with France after we roll through in 4 days?", that is insulting to the people who fought for freedom in europe from 1914-1945...and insulting to the people (among them French) who helped americans gain independance from Great Britain in 1776...


In responce of: ("Come one Kentucky what are we gonna do with France after we roll through in 4 days? Also if this does leed to a confertation I believe we would win. Also with the help of the British we would stomp through europe. You know whats more disturbing is, cause they don't like our policies they don't like us. Also if they want a fight I can think of many Americans who will give em' one hell of one. They should look at our record so far, only one we retreated from(for political puposes), and another one techniclly never lost nor won still going on. All the others we won so I glady so don't do it europe we don't want to hurt you")

 

[dilloduck]

and now you live where ??

 

[freeandfun1]

if you can't spell IGNORANT, I would be careful about calling others that.....

 

[freeandfun1]

I was first alarmed by how stupid your comment was but then I saw you were only 20 years old and having myself lived in the US for 6 years I know how much young peole are ignorent...It's not your fault in a way, they only teach you about the history they want you to know. I did the whole junior high school and high school thing in NJ and it was a shock when I went back home. You guys are ignorent about what's out there, you believe everything you see on TV, and knowing that most of the media is controlled by your government or at least pressured into going it's way it's very scary. I've met a lot of americans who have gone around travelling the world and they now have such a different opinion, they are so much open minded and aware of what is really out there, and totally against the Bush policy, because that's all it is really. No one (from europe) hates the American people, we've got nothing against you people, I loved the people I met while living in the US, they are some of the nicest people I've ever met, all we disaprove of is the government in place. Clinton for instance was very much liked (appart from his "I did not have sexual intercourse blah blah, but then again he's a man like any other, he needs some love...). So don't think we've got a problem with america, we only do with the people who are governing it, because in the end, you have the right to be governed by your own people, only that those people in place today don't rightfully represent you. No hard feelings... Oh and if you wanted to attack France or any other country for that matter I'm sure you'd go through it as fast as you did with Irak right? How many soldiers and civilians have been killed since? Oh and is it over? Nevermind...
Wars are ugly, I think people will agree on that, think peace and stop being stupid and saying things such as "what are we gonna do with France after we roll through in 4 days?", that is insulting to the people who fought for freedom in europe from 1914-1945...and insulting to the people (among them French) who helped americans gain independance from Great Britain in 1776...


In responce of: ("Come one Kentucky what are we gonna do with France after we roll through in 4 days? Also if this does leed to a confertation I believe we would win. Also with the help of the British we would stomp through europe. You know whats more disturbing is, cause they don't like our policies they don't like us. Also if they want a fight I can think of many Americans who will give em' one hell of one. They should look at our record so far, only one we retreated from(for political puposes), and another one techniclly never lost nor won still going on. All the others we won so I glady so don't do it europe we don't want to hurt you")

This is one of the most IGNORANT posts I have ever read.

I have lived overseas and I travel overseas often and I know that it is YOUR history of the world that is based on IGNORANCE!