Freedom of Religion? Christian Artists Face Jail Time For Not Making Same-Sex Wedding Invitations

[martybegan]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

The question is does public accommodation automatically override the 1st amendment. If so, well, welcome to tyranny land, if not, one has to set the bar to where the government has to fix the situation using the least imposing method possible.

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

Way to 'cherry-pick' scripture....

these so called christian are doing the same thing

I'll bet you 100 bucks these so called christians have no problem printing wedding invitations for divorcees and second marriages or for people who have had sex out of wedlock

Who cares?

Evidently only religious people need to be 100% consistent in their belief structures. everyone else can be freaking hypocrites, right?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The bible states that all kinds of things are sins so do these so called christians dent business to divorced people getting married a second time?

Being a Christian isn't like joining one huge fraternity where everyone has to believe the exact same thing - to expect all people to do so is ludicrous. The Constitution states 'freedom of religion - not any specific one - and the exercise thereof - not the exercise of any ONE agreed upon religious belief.

they specifically said they were christian. the bible is the instruction book for christians

 

[BlindBoo]

All people have the right to receive service, free from discrimination, from any business that obtains or solicits customers from the general public. It is against the law for any such business in Phoenix to discriminate against a person on the basis of:

• Age
• Sex
• Race
• Color
• Religion
• Disability
• Marital status

• National origin

• Sexual orientation

• Gender identity or expression

Equal Opportunity Public Accommodations Discrimination

City of Phoenix's law.

 

[martybegan]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

The question is does public accommodation automatically override the 1st amendment. If so, well, welcome to tyranny land, if not, one has to set the bar to where the government has to fix the situation using the least imposing method possible.

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

1. Who are you or I to judge how a person practices their religion?

2. See # 1.

As long as it isn't 1) government discriminating or 2) said discrimination impacting interstate commerce (at the federal level) or involving a needed, time sensitive service good, or if going to another provider would be unreasonably burdensome, why should people be forced to do things they don't want to do?

I'm not judging. I am asking what is sinful about printing words on a piece of paper? And where is that covered in the bible?
And if these people will print words for adulterers or murderers or divorced people why not gay people

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that shit

No, you are just asking for the State to have power to ruin someone over an invitation, a cake, or a photograph.

 

[hadit]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

The Constitution doesn't protect human sacrifice no matter how religious someone might claim it is.

Thank God no one's doing that.

 

[martybegan]

All people have the right to receive service, free from discrimination, from any business that obtains or solicits customers from the general public. It is against the law for any such business in Phoenix to discriminate against a person on the basis of:

• Age
• Sex
• Race
• Color
• Religion
• Disability
• Marital status

• National origin

• Sexual orientation

• Gender identity or expression

Equal Opportunity Public Accommodations Discrimination

City of Phoenix's law.

So that automatically overrides all Bill of Rights protections?

 

[Skull Pilot]

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. I suppose you'd have difficulty understanding something as simple as this if you're a proponent for LGBT decay.

Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that. I suppose you'd have difficulty understanding something as simple as this if you're a proponent for LGBT decay.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book. I see, so it's your way or the highway. They should participate because you say so.

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. I see, so if you don't participate then you're judging. Thus we can conclude Christians must participate in anything you want them to. If they don't bend over for you we can conclude they're hypocrites and sinners.

and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people? Please tell me where in the bible does it state you must not open your male quasi-puss for a leftist on demand?

printing words on a piece of paper is NOT participating in anything. They won't be at the ceremony hence they will not be participating

but why is it OK for them to print words for adulterers or divorcees and not gay people after all those are sins too

 

[easyt65]

these so called Christian are doing the same thing

That's your opinion, but most Christians I know read and weigh the full context of God's teachings.

And maybe what is getting liberals, who are a great deal about CONTROL, is that they do not get to impose their will / religious belief on others, which - again - is WHY we have 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof'!

YOU don't get to tell someone what is and what is not part of their religious faith / beliefs, what they can and can not believe in / live. It's not up to you!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

However any law that is contradictory to the United States Constitution is itself illegal. The United States Constitution provides for the Freedom of Religion and the 'exercise thereof'.

Where in the bible does it say one cannot print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

Their business is NOT a religion

One does not give up constitutional rights because one wants to sell something.

you have yet to tell me how printing words on paper stops those people from practicing their religion

 

[Skull Pilot]

these so called Christian are doing the same thing

That's your opinion, but most Christians I know read and weigh the full context of God's teachings.

And maybe what is getting liberals, who are a great deal about CONTROL, is that they do not get to impose their will / religious belief on others, which - again - is WHY we have 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof'!

YOU don't get to tell someone what is and what is not part of their religious faith / beliefs, what they can and can not believe in / live. It's not up to you!

Ah so it's OK for these people to be hypocrites and serve some sinners and not others

Sorry but that dog won't hunt.

 

[easyt65]

printing words on a piece of paper is NOT participating in anything. They won't be at the ceremony hence they will not be participating

I know - this is your opinion, that you keep repeating over and over. Again, you do not get to impose YOUR definitions, beliefs, etc onto someone else in regards to religion - you are brilliantly demonstrating WHY we have 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof'. Thank yp\ou.

 

[easyt65]

you have yet to tell me how printing words on paper stops those people from practicing their religion

I already have - go back and re-read.

 

[Moonglow]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Those people are free to exercise their religion, if they be Christians their religion teaches about love and forgiveness...Not discrimination to what someone does in the privacy of their own home...The Christian religion does not state that no business shall not do business with sinners...

 

[easyt65]

Ah so it's OK for these people to be hypocrites and serve some sinners and not others

Sorry but that dog won't hunt.

People are free to exercise their religion - period.

'That dog won't hunt' - according to a liberal who wants to generalize, fit all Christians in 1 box, ands control the way they think and how they exercise their religion.

Again, you are brilliantly demonstrating why we have protected 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof'...

 

[Skull Pilot]

you have yet to tell me how printing words on paper stops those people from practicing their religion

I already have - go back and re-read.

no you didn't

because it doesn't.

and if these people can't print words for sinners then they better close shop

 

[easyt65]

[QUOTE="Moonglow, post: 15984818, member: 30820
Those people are free to exercise their religion, if they be Christians their religion teaches about love and forgiveness...Not discrimination to what someone does in the privacy of their own home...The Christian religion does not state that no business shall not do business with sinners...[/QUOTE]
The bible teaches homosexuality is a sin and not to participate in, facilitate, enable, or encourage sin. The choice not to do so has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with exercising their faith. Their actions is supported and taught biblically.

To refuse to do something for people who are black, women/men, etc... is not supported biblically and thus would indeed be discriminatory.

 

[mdk]

Why should these people be forced to print anything, for anyone, aganist their wishes?

 

[BlindBoo]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

Yeah it's about making them um, er them Gays, into second class citizens not worthy of service in the real America!

 

[martybegan]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

However any law that is contradictory to the United States Constitution is itself illegal. The United States Constitution provides for the Freedom of Religion and the 'exercise thereof'.

Where in the bible does it say one cannot print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

Their business is NOT a religion

One does not give up constitutional rights because one wants to sell something.

you have yet to tell me how printing words on paper stops those people from practicing their religion

they are doing something against their moral code, due to government coercion. The whole idea of the 1st amendment is to allow them to do so, and place a burden on the government to say why forcing them to do so is needed, and to do so in such a way as to minimally impact their right to practice religion as they see fit.

 

[easyt65]

no you didn't...because it doesn't.

Now you're being completely illogical and irrational. Just because you do not agree with what I presented does not mean I did not present it. Get a grip and try again.