Free Internet at Your Expense for Low Income Families

[Foxfyre]

That works out to just over .13/taxpayer based on filings from 2009. Yes, I think I can handle paying an additional .13/year for this program.

I think your math is a little off if you count only those who are actually working and paying into the national treasury without getting back most or more than they pay in. And again you are only counting one U.S. city. Add in ALL the U.S. cities and I think you'll be looking at paying a substantial amount every year to fund such a program.

$2.1M (per you) for the cost of the program in FL divided by the number of tax filers in 2009 (156M) equals just over .13/filer. Where is my math off?

Millions upon millions file tax returns every year but pay little or nothing in taxes and many of those receive more from the national treasury than they pay in. That's where your math is off. You're paying their .13 cents for Tampa along with yours and then again you need to multiply it by the tens of thousands of low income housing projects that are also eligible for this kind of project now that the precedent is set.

 

[daveman]

Thanks, Daveman...from your link:

At the same time, the cash-strapped city began withdrawing crucial services like police patrols, transit services, and routine building maintenance. Lawns were paved over to save on maintenance, failed lights were left for months, and apartments damaged by fire were simply boarded up instead of rehabilitated and reoccupied. Later phases of public housing development (such as the Green Homes, the newest of the Cabrini–Green buildings) were built on extremely tight budgets and suffered from maintenance problems due to the low quality of construction.

Indeed. Liberals can't do anything right, can they?

 

[bucs90]

Here is the best part:

WE ALREADY OFFER FREE INTERNET TO POOR PEOPLE.

It's call the damn Public Library, free internet, free books.

Problem is they are too damn lazy to GO THERE. They want it wireless, in home, like the rest of us.

Remember: Liberalism is about envy. They got free internet now, it's just not as convenient to them as the rest of us who PAY FOR IT in our homes. So.....out of envy, they want the same thing we PAY for to be given to them for FREE.

 

[Jeremy]

Here is the best part:

WE ALREADY OFFER FREE INTERNET TO POOR PEOPLE.

It's call the damn Public Library, free internet, free books.

Problem is they are too damn lazy to GO THERE. They want it wireless, in home, like the rest of us.

Remember: Liberalism is about envy. They got free internet now, it's just not as convenient to them as the rest of us who PAY FOR IT in our homes. So.....out of envy, they want the same thing we PAY for to be given to them for FREE.

 

[VaYank5150]

Thanks, Daveman...from your link:

At the same time, the cash-strapped city began withdrawing crucial services like police patrols, transit services, and routine building maintenance. Lawns were paved over to save on maintenance, failed lights were left for months, and apartments damaged by fire were simply boarded up instead of rehabilitated and reoccupied. Later phases of public housing development (such as the Green Homes, the newest of the Cabrini–Green buildings) were built on extremely tight budgets and suffered from maintenance problems due to the low quality of construction.

Indeed. Liberals can't do anything right, can they?

Sorry. I was just getting the impression that the point you were trying to make was that the deplorable condition of these housing units were the sole cause of the inhabitants.

 

[daveman]

Thanks, Daveman...from your link:

Indeed. Liberals can't do anything right, can they?

Sorry. I was just getting the impression that the point you were trying to make was that the deplorable condition of these housing units were the sole cause of the inhabitants.

They sure didn't help, did they?

 

[High_Gravity]

This used to be a nice building. It was built to house people at low or no cost to them.

Look what happened to it.

Who's the slum lord in charge of maintenance there?

The Vice Lords.

 

[bucs90]

Thanks, Daveman...from your link:

Indeed. Liberals can't do anything right, can they?

Sorry. I was just getting the impression that the point you were trying to make was that the deplorable condition of these housing units were the sole cause of the inhabitants.

It mostly is. Go to any inner city gov't housing project. The people have very little pride in taking care of their property. If something's broke or needs a face-lift, they expect government to do it.

 

[High_Gravity]

Who's the slum lord in charge of maintenance there?

The Chicago Housing Authority. That's Cabrini-Green.

Was.


They are almost all gone now. There is maybe 2 buildings left and I believe they are scheduled to be removed as well. Good riddance.

Good riddance? were do you think these people that live there are going to do? some of them might end up being your new neighbors.

 

[goldcatt]

I dunno, Foxfyre. I'm less enthusiastic about the computers being sold at such a low cost than I am about the internet being provided...but it's possible they worked a deal and are just passing along the low price.

I'd be happier if the city wanted to embed computer labs in the projects that people could come and use, but I guess this dun set my hair on fire. Certainly does seem likely to lead to some new hope for the impoverished residents.

Millions of us managed to get an education without free internet or computers being provided. Heck, there wasn't any such thing as personal computers during much of my formal education. If you wanted to be educated you had to get your butt out of bed, get to a school campus someplace, and attend classes.

EVERY school from first through twelfth grade, every junior college, every university, every community center, etc. etc. etc. has computers provided for use. Not as convenient as being able to stay home in your jammies with your beer and pretzels for sure, but perhaps creating a work ethic to have to get out and get it done.

Small rural communities without broadband access may just have to work together to bring it in like all rural communities have had to do with sewer systems, electricity, natural gas, and telephones. And availability of broadband access is not a problem in Tampa FL.

If we were going to spend the money, infrastructure for rural broadband access instead would be my choice.

It's not just about personal use, there are also lots of farms and businesses out here in the sticks that could and would benefit. You can't expand to internet sales or use many business applications on dialup service, and for many rural small businesses the cost of satellite service (assuming it's available) eats into the bottom line. As hard hit as some cities are, the rural economy in many areas got the bust without really benefiting much from the boom years before it. Any hand up to new opportunity would be helpful.

Although every phone bill has included a fee for rural broadband for years, makes me wonder what's been done with that money.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How much is this program costing the individual taxpayer?

You tell me. $2.1 million to provide free internet service plus some other perks for one low income housing project in Tampa Fl. How much would that be if all low income housing projects in Florida are included. In all of the southeast? In all of the south? In all of the country?

The point isn't so much the amount allocated for this project but the precedent being set and the implications of that.

There have been proposals before to use government money to bring broadband to rural areas. The customers would pay a cost, as I understand them, but the ISPs are not incentivized to string wire so far away from heavily populated areas.

I suppose you can argue that broadband is akin to any other utility nowadays.

Only if other utilities require the investor to build a power plant or pumping station every couple of miles. That makes broadband significanly less cost effective than string eletrical wires or running water and sewage services. Yet, somehow, it is unfair to charge rural customers more than people who live in a large city that live within existing infrastructure.

 

[uscitizen]

Why not? Tampa funded a new football stadium with a tax increase.
And I did not like supporting for profit sports.

 

[boedicca]

Although every phone bill has included a fee for rural broadband for years, makes me wonder what's been done with that money.

Now you're sounding like a fiscal conservative.

The moral hazard of taking a bunch of money away from one group to give to another is always fraught with waste, fraud, and mismanagement.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Free internet is available at your public library.

And at most Krogers and Safeway grocery stores.

And it is available for a $1 at McDonalds.

This is unnecessary.

I can do better than that.

Free internet is available to anyone who has a phone line. I still have a valdi Netzero account if I am ever stuck somewhere where I need to access the internat and all I can do is plug in a phone and use dial up. There is no reason the government has to get involved and try to set up free internet for people just because they live in public housing.

 

[Claudette]

Here is the best part:

WE ALREADY OFFER FREE INTERNET TO POOR PEOPLE.

It's call the damn Public Library, free internet, free books.

Problem is they are too damn lazy to GO THERE. They want it wireless, in home, like the rest of us.

Remember: Liberalism is about envy. They got free internet now, it's just not as convenient to them as the rest of us who PAY FOR IT in our homes. So.....out of envy, they want the same thing we PAY for to be given to them for FREE.

Your so right.

My local public Library has 12 or more computers set up for public use. Anyone can use them.

I really don't see why the taxpayer should foot the bill for computers or internet access for anyone. Jeeze. They gave TV's to folks in low income houseing and they were stolen and sold. They get cell phones at taxpayer expense now also.

Enough is enough in my book. It these folks want these things let em buy em for themselves or take advantage of the Public Library.

 

[Foxfyre]

I dunno, Foxfyre. I'm less enthusiastic about the computers being sold at such a low cost than I am about the internet being provided...but it's possible they worked a deal and are just passing along the low price.

I'd be happier if the city wanted to embed computer labs in the projects that people could come and use, but I guess this dun set my hair on fire. Certainly does seem likely to lead to some new hope for the impoverished residents.

Millions of us managed to get an education without free internet or computers being provided. Heck, there wasn't any such thing as personal computers during much of my formal education. If you wanted to be educated you had to get your butt out of bed, get to a school campus someplace, and attend classes.

EVERY school from first through twelfth grade, every junior college, every university, every community center, etc. etc. etc. has computers provided for use. Not as convenient as being able to stay home in your jammies with your beer and pretzels for sure, but perhaps creating a work ethic to have to get out and get it done.

Small rural communities without broadband access may just have to work together to bring it in like all rural communities have had to do with sewer systems, electricity, natural gas, and telephones. And availability of broadband access is not a problem in Tampa FL.

If we were going to spend the money, infrastructure for rural broadband access instead would be my choice.

It's not just about personal use, there are also lots of farms and businesses out here in the sticks that could and would benefit. You can't expand to internet sales or use many business applications on dialup service, and for many rural small businesses the cost of satellite service (assuming it's available) eats into the bottom line. As hard hit as some cities are, the rural economy in many areas got the bust without really benefiting much from the boom years before it. Any hand up to new opportunity would be helpful.

Although every phone bill has included a fee for rural broadband for years, makes me wonder what's been done with that money.

Sadly the huge lion's share of all federal monies is swallowed up by the bureaucracy and never gets to its intended target. That is why I oppose the federal government doing muich of anything outside of its constitutionally mandated responsibilities. Most state governments are far more efficient and local governments evenmoreso--the best solution for most rural problems are private coops by which almost all of the funding collected is assigned to fixing the problem.

I know there are exceptions and we all can probably name at least one. But I think Americans have become far too dependent on government instead of looking to correct what needs fixing themselves. There is a solution for almost every situation if enough heads determine to figure it out and then muster the gumption to just do it.

However there are areas in New Mexico that still do not have any form of public utilities--no electricity, no public telephone service, no broadband, no piped in natural gas, etc. The people who choose to live in those areas accept that as the way it is for those who choose to live where they live. They use propane lighting, heating, etc., or utilize wind chargers or propane fueled generators, satellite phones and computer service, etc. etc. and they get along just fine. After visiting with some of the rugged individuals who choose that lifestyle they wouldn't give up their freedom and way of life for the amenities that we folks in the city enjoy for anything. I sort of envy them actually.

 

[VaYank5150]

Indeed. Liberals can't do anything right, can they?

Sorry. I was just getting the impression that the point you were trying to make was that the deplorable condition of these housing units were the sole cause of the inhabitants.

It mostly is. Go to any inner city gov't housing project. The people have very little pride in taking care of their property. If something's broke or needs a face-lift, they expect government to do it.

You paint with a VERY broad brush, don't you think?

 

[jillian]

How much is this program costing the individual taxpayer?

You tell me. $2.1 million to provide free internet service plus some other perks for one low income housing project in Tampa Fl. How much would that be if all low income housing projects in Florida are included. In all of the southeast? In all of the south? In all of the country?

The point isn't so much the amount allocated for this project but the precedent being set and the implications of that.

what is a 'perk', hon? are they getting credit cards to go to bloomingdales? starbucks gift certificates? coops on park avenue? free porn for all?

let's define terms. your poll says as choice a "lets give them all of it" then choice b says 'only educational sites'.

what's an educational site. i can tell you that my 13 year old son couldn't excel in school without the ability to do research. that includes the site his english teacher downloads their reading assignments to downloading information from wikipedia as a beginning point to his research.

is wikipedia an 'educational site'?

how about cbs?

how about comedy central if a teacher wants them to watch something on jon stewart?

is there a difference in cost if they get 'all of it'? or is that just a way to be spiteful? (not you, the policy).

and why on earth would it bother you? how much money do we give that subsidizes agriculture? how much have we spent building infrastructure in iraq while ignoring our own?

seriously...

we spent 70 million investigating a failed land deal and got a blue dress; darryl issa the idiot wants to spend millions doing 'an investigation a day'. we have spent trillions on an unnecessary war of choice. we spent a million dollars when baby bush was president on a study to ascertain if prayer works and we're going to haggle over kids getting the internet?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Internet access is an unalienable right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Internet access is neither a right nor a necessity. The government has no right using my money to provide it to anyone.

Democracy in Iraq is neither their right nor a necessity, the government has no right using my money to provide it to them. However, Internet access is going to cost you .13/year. How much will our invasion, occupation and nation building in Iraq ultimately cost you? Not to mention the loss of 4,000 American lives....

You are making erroneous assumptions to come to that $.13 cost. There is no way this project is only costing $308.82 for each resident of those housing projects, there is additional money coming in from somewhere that the story is not mentioning. I would guess that that grant is a matching funds grant, and that the Tampa housing authority had to come up with at leat that much, more likely twice as much, to get the grant. That at least doubles the burden on the individual taxpayer, and more than doubles it for those who are actually under the taxing envelope of the Tampa Housing Authority. Expanding this nationwide would be prohibitive, and not expanding it would be even worse. Federal funds whould not be used for local projects.