France, 1930's: A Fatal Flaw in Liberalism

[Dragon]

Uh huh. The people who were in the WTC would probably have something different to say about that.

They might; on the other hand, all the casualties we've taken in Iraq and Afghanistan might see things my way. The worst menace is the one hurting you, personally, right?

And in fact, it's quite doubtful that bin Ladin would have been any danger to us if it weren't for the Cheneys in our post-WWII history (although to assign all that blame to Cheney himself would be a bit much). Maybe he'd have blown up the Saudi royal family instead.

It can't be doubted, though, that the greatest menace to our liberty is always going to be our own government rather than any foreigner. A foreign government may be tyrannical, but it has no jurisdiction here, while our own government does.

 

[daveman]

Uh huh. The people who were in the WTC would probably have something different to say about that.

They might; on the other hand, all the casualties we've taken in Iraq and Afghanistan might see things my way. The worst menace is the one hurting you, personally, right?

And in fact, it's quite doubtful that bin Ladin would have been any danger to us if it weren't for the Cheneys in our post-WWII history (although to assign all that blame to Cheney himself would be a bit much). Maybe he'd have blown up the Saudi royal family instead.

It can't be doubted, though, that the greatest menace to our liberty is always going to be our own government rather than any foreigner. A foreign government may be tyrannical, but it has no jurisdiction here, while our own government does.

Yeah. So why do you give Obama a free pass?

 

[rdean]

Conservatism has no flaws:

At least they don't seem to see any.

 

[rightwinger]

Conservatives of that day are not the same as conservatives now. Similarly, liberals of that day have nothing in common with liberals today.

Liberals then supported individual liberties, small Federal government, and State's rights. You can tell because they built the government that way.

Liberals today think those are horrible ideas.

You figured that one out did you? Nothing today is like it was in 1776, especially our country

What is the same is that each new generation faces challenges. They can face those challenges with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Liberals will say, we can do better.......conservatives will say, let's keep things the way they are

Today's liberals are saying "We can do better -- even though our ideas have all been proven failures by history. No, really, it'll work this time, honest!!"

Our ideas have not been proven wrong by history...

Civil rights
Womens rights
Worker protections
Environmental protections
Gay rights
Social Security
Medicare

All were pursued by liberals......all were opposed by conservatives

Conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history......they still are

 

[Peach]

Of course, what PC neglects to tell us is that FDR was our greatest Liberal President and that it was the US Conservatives that urged us to mind our own business and stay out of the war

**********************************************
This is forgotten in the claims FDR allowed Pearl harbor, adored Stalin, etc.

 

[daveman]

Conservatism has no flaws:

At least they don't seem to see any.

Odd...you posted a picture of liberalism's foreign policy.

 

[daveman]

You figured that one out did you? Nothing today is like it was in 1776, especially our country

What is the same is that each new generation faces challenges. They can face those challenges with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Liberals will say, we can do better.......conservatives will say, let's keep things the way they are

Today's liberals are saying "We can do better -- even though our ideas have all been proven failures by history. No, really, it'll work this time, honest!!"

Our ideas have not been proven wrong by history...

Civil rights
Womens rights
Worker protections
Environmental protections
Gay rights
Social Security
Medicare

All were pursued by liberals......all were opposed by conservatives

Conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history......they still are

I agree, if you're using leftist revisionist history.

 

[rightwinger]

Today's liberals are saying "We can do better -- even though our ideas have all been proven failures by history. No, really, it'll work this time, honest!!"

Our ideas have not been proven wrong by history...

Civil rights
Womens rights
Worker protections
Environmental protections
Gay rights
Social Security
Medicare

All were pursued by liberals......all were opposed by conservatives

Conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history......they still are

I agree, if you're using leftist revisionist history.

History doesn't lie. Conservatives opposed all those initiatives, many conservatives still do

 

[Peach]

You figured that one out did you? Nothing today is like it was in 1776, especially our country

What is the same is that each new generation faces challenges. They can face those challenges with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Liberals will say, we can do better.......conservatives will say, let's keep things the way they are

Today's liberals are saying "We can do better -- even though our ideas have all been proven failures by history. No, really, it'll work this time, honest!!"

Our ideas have not been proven wrong by history...

Civil rights
Womens rights
Worker protections
Environmental protections
Gay rights
Social Security
Medicare

All were pursued by liberals......all were opposed by conservatives

Conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history......they still are

************************************************
France formed a coalition against Germany with GB and Poland in 1939 also; I see this thread as incorrect about history actually.

 

[Dragon]

To be completely fair about this, you have to distinguish real conservatism from the ideology of the "conservative movement" today, which is a radical movement and therefore not really conservative at all.

It's also important to point out that, when we are speaking of real conservatives, it was their job, their role in the dialog, to oppose all of those things on Rightwinger's list. Conservatives maintain a society's traditions and coherence, while progressives push for improvements. Not all progressive ideas are good ones (see: 18th Amendment), and it's important for them to prove themselves against objections before being implemented.

Over time, liberals are supposed to win and always do, but they have to win against conservative opposition, and not TOO easily, or society will fall apart.

 

[Peach]

To be completely fair about this, you have to distinguish real conservatism from the ideology of the "conservative movement" today, which is a radical movement and therefore not really conservative at all.

It's also important to point out that, when we are speaking of real conservatives, it was their job, their role in the dialog, to oppose all of those things on Rightwinger's list. Conservatives maintain a society's traditions and coherence, while progressives push for improvements. Not all progressive ideas are good ones (see: 18th Amendment), and it's important for them to prove themselves against objections before being implemented.

Over time, liberals are supposed to win and always do, but they have to win against conservative opposition, and not TOO easily, or society will fall apart.

*********************************************
The first states to ratify the 18th Amendment are now Republican strongholds.

 

[daveman]

Our ideas have not been proven wrong by history...

Civil rights
Womens rights
Worker protections
Environmental protections
Gay rights
Social Security
Medicare

All were pursued by liberals......all were opposed by conservatives

Conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history......they still are

I agree, if you're using leftist revisionist history.

History doesn't lie. Conservatives opposed all those initiatives, many conservatives still do

History doesn't lie.

But you do.

 

[daveman]

To be completely fair about this, you have to distinguish real conservatism from the ideology of the "conservative movement" today, which is a radical movement and therefore not really conservative at all.

It's also important to point out that, when we are speaking of real conservatives, it was their job, their role in the dialog, to oppose all of those things on Rightwinger's list. Conservatives maintain a society's traditions and coherence, while progressives push for improvements. Not all progressive ideas are good ones (see: 18th Amendment), and it's important for them to prove themselves against objections before being implemented.

Over time, liberals are supposed to win and always do, but they have to win against conservative opposition, and not TOO easily, or society will fall apart.

Oh, goody. I was just thinking to myself, "Y'know, we need a blowhard leftist around here to define what a 'real conservative' is based on his stereotypes and leftist programming".

Thanks!

 

[elvis]

You figured that one out did you? Nothing today is like it was in 1776, especially our country

What is the same is that each new generation faces challenges. They can face those challenges with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Liberals will say, we can do better.......conservatives will say, let's keep things the way they are

Today's liberals are saying "We can do better -- even though our ideas have all been proven failures by history. No, really, it'll work this time, honest!!"

Our ideas have not been proven wrong by history...

Civil rights
Womens rights
Worker protections
Environmental protections
Gay rights
Social Security
Medicare

All were pursued by liberals......all were opposed by conservatives

Conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history......they still are

This is such pointless you're playing... but Abraham Lincoln was a republican. Andrew Johnson was a democrat. How proud you must be of those two facts.

 

[rightwinger]

Today's liberals are saying "We can do better -- even though our ideas have all been proven failures by history. No, really, it'll work this time, honest!!"

Our ideas have not been proven wrong by history...

Civil rights
Womens rights
Worker protections
Environmental protections
Gay rights
Social Security
Medicare

All were pursued by liberals......all were opposed by conservatives

Conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history......they still are

This is such pointless you're playing... but Abraham Lincoln was a republican. Andrew Johnson was a democrat. How proud you must be of those two facts.

Where did I mention anything about Democrats or Republicans?

 

[elvis]

Our ideas have not been proven wrong by history...

Civil rights
Womens rights
Worker protections
Environmental protections
Gay rights
Social Security
Medicare

All were pursued by liberals......all were opposed by conservatives

Conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history......they still are

This is such pointless you're playing... but Abraham Lincoln was a republican. Andrew Johnson was a democrat. How proud you must be of those two facts.

Where did I mention anything about Democrats or Republicans?

This is such a stupid game. But I've played stupid games before.
How many years did "liberals" win because of the "Solid South"? FDR is one of many who won because of it.

 

[rightwinger]

This is such pointless you're playing... but Abraham Lincoln was a republican. Andrew Johnson was a democrat. How proud you must be of those two facts.

Where did I mention anything about Democrats or Republicans?

This is such a stupid game. But I've played stupid games before.
How many years did "liberals" win because of the "Solid South"? FDR is one of many who won because of it.

There actually was a time in the land of far, far away when you had Republicans who fought for liberal ideals and Democrats who supported racist Jim Crow laws.

 

[Peach]

Where did I mention anything about Democrats or Republicans?

This is such a stupid game. But I've played stupid games before.
How many years did "liberals" win because of the "Solid South"? FDR is one of many who won because of it.

There actually was a time in the land of far, far away when you had Republicans who fought for liberal ideals and Democrats who supported racist Jim Crow laws.

*****************************************************
True, and FRANCE was with Roland and Great Britain against Nazi Germany by 1939.

 

[Peach]

Poland.

 

[rdean]

Conservatism has no flaws:

At least they don't seem to see any.

Odd...you posted a picture of liberalism's foreign policy.

Odd. It was Republicans who let Bin Laden go. It wasn't Republicans who got him.