Fox Wars

[California Girl]

I too worked in radio, TV and newspaper media. Writing, producing, reporting, talking, directing and just good ol' being a jock.

What I remember most though, was my junior year in college, the Dean of Journalism and the Director of Student Publications pulled me into an office one day (I was news editor of the campus paper and they were looking at me for EiC next semester) and said, "if you're going to really make it in this business you have got to become more liberal in your views." I told them I didn't know what they were talking about, what "liberal" was (I didn't) and they began to explain political correctness to me.

I left that meeting going, "hmm.... Did they realize they were talking to a soon to be journalist, a newsman?" And then proceeded to write a award-winning column about that meeting, with verbatim quotes, and all.

Imagine their chagrin. Oh and I turned down the EiC post!

I was probably in the business well before you. In my day ANY detectable bias in a news story whether for print, radio, or television, got your knuckles rapped by the News Desk and, if blatant, would get you fired. We were expected to report Who, Why, What, Where, When, and How and nothing else, and our loyalty was to be to the truth with accuracy and nothing else. Any information that could affect ANYBODY's business, livelihood, privacy, or reputation had to be carefully multiple sourced and verified so that there was no question before it was printed. (Now they put it out there if anybody anywhere says it, even if it is somebody within their own news organization.)

I got out of the business when emotion became more important than hard facts, and I've never regretted leaving. Unfortunately that left most of the media saturated with leftists who deal in emotionalism and facts are almost an afterthought if they are presented at all. Certainly there isn't a lot of effort to be fair and balanced.

Talk radio is often not fair and balanced, but it does at least provide the other side of the story we are getting from the leftist media near monopoly. And Fox News is just about the only mainstream television source we have where we are getting most or all of the news of the day--they will tackle hot button issues that the other media groups ignore or deep six.

So kudos to you for standing on principle. I am hoping that Fox's success will persuade more and more of the media to choose to do so. It won't happen if the Administration is successful in their war on Fox, however.

LMAO.... let's not get into a pissing contest over who has how much experience with the media. I'd lose anyway - I'm not old enough to have that much.

Let's just all agree that the WH was fucking stupid to take on an established member of the press pool.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

It sounds as if many people are making excuses for Fox by saying that even though it is biased to the right - that is ok because everyone else is biased to the left?

That's actually almost a paraphrase of what Rupert Murdoch himself said. That's also where the "fair and balanced" motto comes from, he felt that other networks weren't giving fair hearing to all sides, and weren't balanced in their approach.

Initially, FNC wasn't carried on most cable systems due to ownership of those trying to stop it from getting a foothold. It took a landmark lawsuit to get that wrong righted.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Let's just all agree that the WH was fucking stupid to take on an established member of the press pool.

I think everyone save the sycophants agree this "war" on a media outlet is toweringly stupid, counter-productive and fails to learn the lessons Nixon taught us all on that.

But, like Nixon, Obama is paranoid and exceptionally thin-skinned. And obsessed with "controlling the message."

 

[Foxfyre]

On the high school level, in Journalism 101, it was that way. But when I got into college is where I saw the change. And it's systematic, I saw it elsewhere as well.

Like you, I left the business too, but for greener pastures. I can always make money writing when I'm 60, no need to waste my good years in that rat race. One of my friends, he's been stuck at a medium-low circulation newspaper all his adult life, and has (ooooooh) moved up to assignments editor!

We used to meet annually, comparing our income and drinking beer. I was always making twice, at least, the money he was. And he's miserable, feels trapped. I feel sorry for him, I really do. He's done everything right, everything they have asked, except change some of his strongly held views.

The change started happening in the 70's actually as the 1960's flower children graduated college and began infiltrating the media en masse. By the 1980's it was becoming obvious to those with media savvy, and by the 1990's it was obvious to anybody who cared at all. A true conservative had a really tough time getting hired into the media at all, and frequently found it a very uncomfortable climate if s/he was hired. (That is also unfortunately true in Academia too which no doubt accounts for so many mushbrained observed among the young and perpetuates the problems in the media and Academia.)

And it is true that most in journalism at any level do make fairly mediocre salaries any more unless they can land an anchor job or rise to the top. A modern American consevative has a really tough time doing that too.

So I hope both the Left and Right appreciate the tremendous and necessary service that is being given us through Fox News and talk radio. Without it many of us would have little or no knowledge of many of the issues that affect our lives and chip away at our freedoms. Even some dyed-in-the-wool leftists value freedom. Defend Fox News. Don't help them destroy it.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

On the high school level, in Journalism 101, it was that way. But when I got into college is where I saw the change. And it's systematic, I saw it elsewhere as well.

Like you, I left the business too, but for greener pastures. I can always make money writing when I'm 60, no need to waste my good years in that rat race. One of my friends, he's been stuck at a medium-low circulation newspaper all his adult life, and has (ooooooh) moved up to assignments editor!

We used to meet annually, comparing our income and drinking beer. I was always making twice, at least, the money he was. And he's miserable, feels trapped. I feel sorry for him, I really do. He's done everything right, everything they have asked, except change some of his strongly held views.

The change started happening in the 70's actually as the 1960's flower children graduated college and began infiltrating the media en masse. By the 1980's it was becoming obvious to those with media savvy, and by the 1990's it was obvious to anybody who cared at all. A true conservative had a really tough time getting hired into the media at all, and frequently found it a very uncomfortable climate if s/he was hired. (That is also unfortunately true in Academia too which no doubt accounts for so many mushbrained observed among the young and perpetuates the problems in the media and Academia.)

And it is true that most in journalism at any level do make fairly mediocre salaries any more unless they can land an anchor job or rise to the top. A modern American consevative has a really tough time doing that too.

So I hope both the Left and Right appreciate the tremendous and necessary service that is being given us through Fox News and talk radio. Without it many of us would have little or no knowledge of many of the issues that affect our lives and chip away at our freedoms. Even some dyed-in-the-wool leftists value freedom. Defend Fox News. Don't help them destroy it.

It's been a generational degradation to get it to the point where it is now. Slow infiltration....

 

[Coyote]

Without it many of us would have little or no knowledge of many of the issues that affect our lives and chip away at our freedoms. Even some dyed-in-the-wool leftists value freedom. Defend Fox News. Don't help them destroy it.

I defend their right to speak and present the news as I do any news network. But I do not agree with their partisan character smears. They've carried it to new lows but I think that has been going on in the media for while now.

What will we end up with I wonder?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Without it many of us would have little or no knowledge of many of the issues that affect our lives and chip away at our freedoms. Even some dyed-in-the-wool leftists value freedom. Defend Fox News. Don't help them destroy it.

I defend their right to speak and present the news as I do any news network. But I do not agree with their partisan character smears. They've carried it to new lows but I think that has been going on in the media for while now.

What will we end up with I wonder?

Again: The opinions of the opinion show hosts do not represent the opinion of Fox News. Any more than syndicated columnists represent the opinion of the newspapers they are printed in.

If Glenn Beck wants to call Obama a racist, that is HIS opinion. Not FNC's. By the same token, if Warren Ballentine wants to call Juan Williams an Uncle Tom by saying "get back on the porch Juan" that's HIS opinion, not the show host's or the network's.

When Janene Garafalo called all the "tea baggers" racists, no one said that was MSNBC's opinion.

Most people instinctively know this.

 

[Coyote]

Without it many of us would have little or no knowledge of many of the issues that affect our lives and chip away at our freedoms. Even some dyed-in-the-wool leftists value freedom. Defend Fox News. Don't help them destroy it.

I defend their right to speak and present the news as I do any news network. But I do not agree with their partisan character smears. They've carried it to new lows but I think that has been going on in the media for while now.

What will we end up with I wonder?

Again: The opinions of the opinion show hosts do not represent the opinion of Fox News. Any more than syndicated columnists represent the opinion of the newspapers they are printed in.

If Glenn Beck wants to call Obama a racist, that is HIS opinion. Not FNC's. By the same token, if Warren Ballentine wants to call Juan Williams an Uncle Tom by saying "get back on the porch Juan" that's HIS opinion, not the show host's or the network's.

Most people instinctively know this.

Agreed but - what if it spills over? Is news driving opinion or opinion driving news on Fox? When they have their opinion hosts on the news as commentators - they blur that distinction and, it is blurred even more by the high percentage of opinion mixed in with the news by their commentators. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I defend their right to speak and present the news as I do any news network. But I do not agree with their partisan character smears. They've carried it to new lows but I think that has been going on in the media for while now.

What will we end up with I wonder?

Again: The opinions of the opinion show hosts do not represent the opinion of Fox News. Any more than syndicated columnists represent the opinion of the newspapers they are printed in.

If Glenn Beck wants to call Obama a racist, that is HIS opinion. Not FNC's. By the same token, if Warren Ballentine wants to call Juan Williams an Uncle Tom by saying "get back on the porch Juan" that's HIS opinion, not the show host's or the network's.

Most people instinctively know this.

Agreed but - what if it spills over? Is news driving opinion or opinion driving news on Fox? When they have their opinion hosts on the news as commentators - they blur that distinction and, it is blurred even more by the high percentage of opinion mixed in with the news by their commentators. That's what I'm talking about.

Do you watch it? At all?

Their straight news shows stay straight. Their opinion shows stay opinion. Their feature shows stay feature.

If one of their opinion show hosts makes news, they might interview him/her about that news. I have never seen that yet, on one of the straight news shows. Baier has never had Hannity, Beck or O'Reilly on. neither has Shepperd Smith. Neither have the morning shows, the afternoon drive, or even Cavuto. You won't see Julie Banderas or Brit Hume interviewing Glenn Beck on their straight news shows.

Beck appearing on O'Reilly isn't blurring any lines, for example. Limbaugh on Greta's show, same thing.

 

[Mike458877]

Again: The opinions of the opinion show hosts do not represent the opinion of Fox News. Any more than syndicated columnists represent the opinion of the newspapers they are printed in.

If Glenn Beck wants to call Obama a racist, that is HIS opinion. Not FNC's. By the same token, if Warren Ballentine wants to call Juan Williams an Uncle Tom by saying "get back on the porch Juan" that's HIS opinion, not the show host's or the network's.

Most people instinctively know this.

Agreed but - what if it spills over? Is news driving opinion or opinion driving news on Fox? When they have their opinion hosts on the news as commentators - they blur that distinction and, it is blurred even more by the high percentage of opinion mixed in with the news by their commentators. That's what I'm talking about.

Do you watch it? At all?

Their straight news shows stay straight. Their opinion shows stay opinion. Their feature shows stay feature.

If one of their opinion show hosts makes news, they might interview him/her about that news. I have never seen that yet, on one of the straight news shows. Baier has never had Hannity, Beck or O'Reilly on. neither has Shepperd Smith. Neither have the morning shows, the afternoon drive, or even Cavuto. You won't see Julie Banderas or Brit Hume interviewing Glenn Beck on their straight news shows.

Beck appearing on O'Reilly isn't blurring any lines, for example. Limbaugh on Greta's show, same thing.

Midnight, your spot on. Well said.

Mike

 

[Coyote]

Again: The opinions of the opinion show hosts do not represent the opinion of Fox News. Any more than syndicated columnists represent the opinion of the newspapers they are printed in.

If Glenn Beck wants to call Obama a racist, that is HIS opinion. Not FNC's. By the same token, if Warren Ballentine wants to call Juan Williams an Uncle Tom by saying "get back on the porch Juan" that's HIS opinion, not the show host's or the network's.

Most people instinctively know this.

Agreed but - what if it spills over? Is news driving opinion or opinion driving news on Fox? When they have their opinion hosts on the news as commentators - they blur that distinction and, it is blurred even more by the high percentage of opinion mixed in with the news by their commentators. That's what I'm talking about.

Do you watch it? At all?

Their straight news shows stay straight. Their opinion shows stay opinion. Their feature shows stay feature.

If one of their opinion show hosts makes news, they might interview him/her about that news. I have never seen that yet, on one of the straight news shows. Baier has never had Hannity, Beck or O'Reilly on. neither has Shepperd Smith. Neither have the morning shows, the afternoon drive, or even Cavuto. You won't see Julie Banderas or Brit Hume interviewing Glenn Beck on their straight news shows.

Beck appearing on O'Reilly isn't blurring any lines, for example. Limbaugh on Greta's show, same thing.

I don't watch it often - which I've said. But I have noticed opinion on the news mixed in with the news as part of the "banter" - more so than other news channels where the banter is mostly irrelevant.

 

[Foxfyre]

Without it many of us would have little or no knowledge of many of the issues that affect our lives and chip away at our freedoms. Even some dyed-in-the-wool leftists value freedom. Defend Fox News. Don't help them destroy it.

I defend their right to speak and present the news as I do any news network. But I do not agree with their partisan character smears. They've carried it to new lows but I think that has been going on in the media for while now.

What will we end up with I wonder?

I wonder how you define partisan character smears? Whether or not you agree with say a Glenn Beck that President Obama in a racist in his views on whatever, so long as the characterization is explained with verifiable criteria, is that a partisan character smear? Did the treatment of Clarence Thomas, Robert Bork, and many others on the right qualify as character smears? How about treatment of Jimmy the Greek, Don Imus, Marge Shott, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, Trent Lott, Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin? Was any of that partisan character smears?

Are you sure that you want to characterize personal opinion of public figures as character smears?

 

[Coyote]

I wonder how you define partisan character smears? Whether or not you agree with say a Glenn Beck that President Obama in a racist in his views on whatever, so long as the characterization is explained with verifiable criteria, is that a partisan character smear?

What verifiable criteria? Racist is an incredibly strong word.

Did the treatment of Clarence Thomas, Robert Bork, and many others on the right qualify as character smears? How about treatment of Jimmy the Greek, Don Imus, Marge Shott, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, Trent Lott, Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin? Was any of that partisan character smears?

Depends on what was said by whom and what distortions were made and what facts supported what was said. You've lumped a whole lot of figures into one generalization here.

Are you sure that you want to characterize personal opinion of public figures as character smears?

No. I'm characterizing some reporting as character smears.

 

[CurveLight]

Without it many of us would have little or no knowledge of many of the issues that affect our lives and chip away at our freedoms. Even some dyed-in-the-wool leftists value freedom. Defend Fox News. Don't help them destroy it.

I defend their right to speak and present the news as I do any news network. But I do not agree with their partisan character smears. They've carried it to new lows but I think that has been going on in the media for while now.

What will we end up with I wonder?

Again: The opinions of the opinion show hosts do not represent the opinion of Fox News. Any more than syndicated columnists represent the opinion of the newspapers they are printed in.

If Glenn Beck wants to call Obama a racist, that is HIS opinion. Not FNC's. By the same token, if Warren Ballentine wants to call Juan Williams an Uncle Tom by saying "get back on the porch Juan" that's HIS opinion, not the show host's or the network's.

When Janene Garafalo called all the "tea baggers" racists, no one said that was MSNBC's opinion.

Most people instinctively know this.

All msm sucks but the main difference with Fox is we already have the unfiltered admission it has political agendas yet it proclaims "we report, you decide." Frankly, anyone who denies this contradiction is either ignorant or a liar.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Agreed but - what if it spills over? Is news driving opinion or opinion driving news on Fox? When they have their opinion hosts on the news as commentators - they blur that distinction and, it is blurred even more by the high percentage of opinion mixed in with the news by their commentators. That's what I'm talking about.

Do you watch it? At all?

Their straight news shows stay straight. Their opinion shows stay opinion. Their feature shows stay feature.

If one of their opinion show hosts makes news, they might interview him/her about that news. I have never seen that yet, on one of the straight news shows. Baier has never had Hannity, Beck or O'Reilly on. neither has Shepperd Smith. Neither have the morning shows, the afternoon drive, or even Cavuto. You won't see Julie Banderas or Brit Hume interviewing Glenn Beck on their straight news shows.

Beck appearing on O'Reilly isn't blurring any lines, for example. Limbaugh on Greta's show, same thing.

I don't watch it often - which I've said. But I have noticed opinion on the news mixed in with the news as part of the "banter" - more so than other news channels where the banter is mostly irrelevant.

You should start watching it, perchance to have an informed, first-person opinion of it. Guests interviewed on news shows get to express their opinion. That doesn't make it the opinion of the interviewer or the network.

Know what's on right now? Cavuto. Know what he's doing? He's got the certified, Guinness Book world's fastest reader Howard Berg on, reading the latest 1,900 page House health care bill, live! You're simply not going to see anything like this anywhere else, and THIS is why the rest are getting their asses kicked!

Creativity that is also very informative. Because Cavuto keeps cutting back to this poor man, asking him what it says so far, and the dude not only knows, he tells us!

Where else are you going to see this? Nowhere. It's humorous and entertaining, yes. But also quite informative. Cavuto is a business news, talk/opinion show. Cavuto keeps it straight news until the end, where he sometimes has an editorial comment that is labeled as such.

THIS is why FNC is killing the competition, in a nutshell. They are winning in the arena of ideas.

Cavuto just ended. He didn't have an editorial today. Beck is on now.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I defend their right to speak and present the news as I do any news network. But I do not agree with their partisan character smears. They've carried it to new lows but I think that has been going on in the media for while now.

What will we end up with I wonder?

Again: The opinions of the opinion show hosts do not represent the opinion of Fox News. Any more than syndicated columnists represent the opinion of the newspapers they are printed in.

If Glenn Beck wants to call Obama a racist, that is HIS opinion. Not FNC's. By the same token, if Warren Ballentine wants to call Juan Williams an Uncle Tom by saying "get back on the porch Juan" that's HIS opinion, not the show host's or the network's.

When Janene Garafalo called all the "tea baggers" racists, no one said that was MSNBC's opinion.

Most people instinctively know this.

All msm sucks but the main difference with Fox is we already have the unfiltered admission it has political agendas yet it proclaims "we report, you decide." Frankly, anyone who denies this contradiction is either ignorant or a liar.

There's been no "admission" of a political agenda, filtered or otherwise. You're an indiscriminate imbiber and regurgitator of the WH kool aid.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

No. I'm characterizing some reporting as character smears.

If a opinion show host says something, anything... It's NOT reporting.

Get it yet?

 

[tigerbob]

Krauthammer? ROTFL! How can anyone cite his work then pontificate about integrity in journalism?

Who cited Krauthammer?

And, he's not a journalist by the way.

I did. Check out the OP.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Krauthammer? ROTFL! How can anyone cite his work then pontificate about integrity in journalism?

Who cited Krauthammer?

And, he's not a journalist by the way.

I did. Check out the OP.

Duh. I read the OP and forgot you had Krauthammer's column in it.

The point is still valid, Krauthammer's not a journalist and doesn't claim to be. And Curvelight would rather attack people than actually read what they say then see if he/she agrees with it, and why.

Very narrow, closed minded wouldn't you say tigerbob?

 

[tigerbob]

Krauthammer? ROTFL! How can anyone cite his work then pontificate about integrity in journalism?

OK, so you believe that CK lacks integrity. Care you say why, or do you normally leave your opinions unsupported?

Unless of course you were attacking my views, in which case perhaps you could give an example of something specific that you disagree with.