Fox News Reports on Collapse of Building 7 Before It Happens

[LA RAM FAN]

Stop using popular mechanics as a source? Did you not read anything in that post you quoted from me? As I have said a good number of times there are countless number of people that I have used to back up my opinion.

So what was it that was ridiculous from the collection on from the list I gave? Were the people with PHD's unqualified? How about the people with P.E., S.E., S.B., S.M., or the other degrees listed? How about a professors of engineering? Would those people know anything about a building collapse? Would you think that the director of aviation for the VF Corp would know anything about a plane crash? Why don't you read Dr. Mlakars paper that I posted about the Pentagon? Would you think that the the winner of the 2003 Forensic Engineer of the Year know anything about this?www.ascetcfe.org/files/pdf/PaulMlakar_bio.doc

Also, I have seen Griffins book before I even went on this website. It is nothing special. Some of his points can be easily disputed. For example, he says that the steel on the wtc building couldn't have soften enough to collapse because the temp of the gasoline on a plane in flight will be just slightly lower than what is needed to do so. He completely ignores the fact that the temp would OBVIOUSLY increase from the friction caused when the plane hit the tower. Do you know that Griffin was a professor in philosophy and theology! He does not have a P.h.D. in psychics and is not and expert on aviation, engineering, construction, and construction UNLIKE my sources I used. I don't know why you would take his word, but not he individual who won the Forensic Engineer Award! It is interesting that you state I do not read your post throughout when it seems conspicuous that your hardly reading any of mine!

No you havent backed up anything you have said.Eots addressed all your points you brought up and countered them all.Your just in complete denial about it that that you dont want to see the other side of the coin.so what if Griffith isnt the expert on those things you mentioned,he INTERVIEWED those experts you mentioned on demolitions,aviation,engineering,construction in his book.THOSE people dont accept the official version for a second as Griffith has proved in his book.considering you use all those laughable links that have been debunked countless times by experts like that old propaganda site underneath the popular mechanics link you provided,and you havent bothered to address many of my points I brought up on your other thread that I have repeated to you at LEAST 3 times,you always show that contrary to what you say,you DO only read parts of our posts and NOT all of it.you know it,we know it.I have given you links to sites that answer all the points you bring up,you never looked at those sites.you just said that you looked at his book,yeah you LOOKED at it,you didnt read it though obviously.yeah the temperature would increase but he proves in his book,that the designers of the buildings said there would be a great loss of life from the fires but the structures themselves would stay intact and remain standing.Griffith also in his book and in other books out there as well, also shows that the people you mention as experts,that they ALSO have government contracts as well,that they are HARDLY independent experts like popular mechanics claims them to be.sorry but I would say that the people like Kevin Ryan -who actually helped build the towwers,who have said that the towers would withstand an airliner slamming into it and the fires would kill people but not bring the towers down,I'll listen to those people over your sources like popular mechanics anyday of the year.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Stating opinion is not fact. You posted that according to Zogby, 40% of Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job and your "proof" is your claim that you read it but never supplied a link. Meanwhile, I have posted the REAL zogby poll and proved that it was only 4.7% of Americans.

why would a magazine go to the trouble of defeding the official version and popular mechanics and THE go on to say in that article over 40% believe it was an inside job? Believe me I WILL find that article and issue where it stated that.ALSO you never answered my question,which was DO you believe in that other fairy tale commission-the warren commission fairy tale that oswald killed kennedy and was the lone assassin? cause if you have,well then your hopeless to be reasoned with on 9/11 cause if you cant belief that the CIA/MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX was behind kennedys assassination,you'll never accept it that they were behind 9/11 as well.I dont even try to reason with people who still accept the fairy tale that oswald killed kennedy,now the ones who can accept the CIA killed kennedy but believe the official version of 9/11,THOSE people I will TRY to reason with? so AGAIN,whats your answer on kennedy?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

if you want a really good laugh check out the list of experts they consulted it is truly laughable...

yeah I know.First popular mechanics-which Griffith has debunked in his book,THEN NISY who changed their story at least 3 times when the experts pointed holes in it,and NOW Thomas Eager who Kevin Ryan who helped build the towers has debunked NUMEROUS times before in debates.priceless.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Oh by the way Bid D,dont worry I'll read your link on professor Bazent and what he says but im sure its as laughable as your OTHER sources such as POPULAR MECHANICS,links to those two propaganda sites below it that you listed thats been debunked as well,THOMAS EAGER that again Kevin Ryan has debunked MANY times and the findings of NIST which haave been debunked by Griffith and other experts numerous times as well which is why they kept changing their story and could never get their story straight.LOL.meanwhile I will look and hunt for that article I saw and come back and post it here when I find it.till then I'll just enjoy watching Eots take you to school and watch you live in denial.LOl.btw i was watching a special on PBS about the kennedy assassination the other night and of course they were propagating the idea that oswald did it and there was no conspiracy,but they went on at the end to say something like despite all these findings,70% of the public still believe there was a conspiracy.why would over 70% believe in a conspiracy to kill kennedy but that only 4% as you claim would only believe in 9/11?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Conspiracy theories exist because some of us cannot believe our leaders cannot possibly be as incompetent as they appear to be.

People become conspiracy theorists because they have faith that those in charge are NOT IDIOTS.

When we see how badly they fuck up, it simply stretches our imaginations that they can possible have been so dumb as apparently, they have been.

So, in a desperate attempt to make our presumption(that our leaders are not dumber than a box of rocks) people try to connect the dots to explain why things are going so badly.

So conspiracy theories are a leap of faith.

The leap of faith to believe that our leaders are evil bastards, rather than complete morons.

this post is so moronic its laughable. Bush,Clinton and Cheney are far more than incompetent.They are evil men who have committed atrocities that rivals Hitlers that you'll never hear about from the corporate controlled media.the only ones making desperate attempts are people such as you and diva con to try and prove that it wasnt an inside job.the conspiracy theorists such as me and Eots are the ones who are not afraid of the truth and can think outside the box.The conicidence theorists such as you guys are the ones who cannot connect the dots that it was an inside job.Matter of fact I was at a 9/11 truth movement once and someone there who works for the airlines was there and she told me that she was very suspecious of the official 9/11 commission report when it first came out and knew it was an inside job because she told me they have procedures that they follow in case something like this happens prevent this kind of disater from happening and to make sure an airliner DOESNT crash into a tower like that which were not followed that day and were violated.

The reason this post is so moronic is that the proof that it wasnt just a matter of incompetence by Bush is that if it WERE and Norad was just plain incompetent that day,there would have been multiple heads rolling with multiple firings for their incompetence at NORAD yet not one single person got fired or demoted that day at Norad or in the pentagan .Bush in fact PROMOTED the commander in charge of Norad after 9/11.thats proof that it was an inside job.Only I'll spell it out for you but you'll come back and post something to try and save face that it Wasnt.thats one of the many similarities in the kennedy assassination and 9/11 is the proof that it was an inside job by the CIA to kill kennedy and not just mere incompetence of the secret service and dallas police dept that day is that nobody from the secret service or dallas police dept got fired and there should have been MULTIPLE firings there as well.

 

[DiveCon]

This is really scraping at the bottom of the barrel.you need to look at that newscast again cause they were NOT behind.They were all up to the minute on it for at LEAST 3 weeks all fighting to be first.Havent you ever seen on local news where they say things like important news break,you will see this only on channel 5,or you will see it here on channel 9 FIRST? News stations are always fighting to be the first with news stories.Theres no way in hell they would have reported it 23 minutes before it falls unless it was already scripted. obviously you only looked at like a few minutes of the things that 911truth.org website says if you went there at all because the evidence there is overwhelming that it was an inside job with constant updates all the time.It takes dozens and dozens of hours to look through that material there to see all the information there they have that proves it all.thats what I did.you cant just look at it for only a few minutes and make a decision.LOL.

no shit moron, they try to be FIRST
usually means they are NOT correct

 

[Big_D]

This is really scraping at the bottom of the barrel.you need to look at that newscast again cause they were NOT behind.They were all up to the minute on it for at LEAST 3 weeks all fighting to be first.Havent you ever seen on local news where they say things like important news break,you will see this only on channel 5,or you will see it here on channel 9 FIRST? News stations are always fighting to be the first with news stories.Theres no way in hell they would have reported it 23 minutes before it falls unless it was already scripted. obviously you only looked at like a few minutes of the things that 911truth.org website says if you went there at all because the evidence there is overwhelming that it was an inside job with constant updates all the time.It takes dozens and dozens of hours to look through that material there to see all the information there they have that proves it all.thats what I did.you cant just look at it for only a few minutes and make a decision.LOL.

How do you know that they were not behind? How do you know that the connection was to the video wasnt simply behind from what the newscasters are getting word?
If you believe that the newscasters were aware of the attacks beforehand then why dont you just simply supply me information proving it.

There are also other reports that came out early. This is not the first time in history this has happened. For example, Dewey defeating Truman. People have been report to be dead beforehand. This would include Gerald Ford, Dick Cheney, Bill Henry (baseball player), Pope John Paul II, and MANY others. I've made this point beforehand to no response.

I have asked this question now numerous times and NEVER got a response but will ask it again: If the American Govt was behind the attacks why would they inform two large news media?

 

[Big_D]

No you havent backed up anything you have said.

First, YOU have made the claim that 9/11 is done by the CFR through the govt and NEVER backed anything up with that. Never proved that clinton nor bush was responsible NOTHING. I am not making those accusations and therefore do not have to back anything up. However, I have anyways showed that bin laden admitted to the attacks and had NUMEROUS experts prove they have the same opinion I do.

Eots addressed all your points you brought up and countered them all.Your just in complete denial about it that that you dont want to see the other side of the coin.

Do you really think that? Go over this thread and see all the questions I asked about this silly theory and never got a response from him or you.

so what if Griffith isnt the expert on those things you mentioned,

The point was that you and eots thought little of the experts I provided. Meanwhile these people were professors at high universities, had very advanced degrees, won awards and then you downgrade them by saying that Griffin countered all their points when he is no expert at all.

If you want a good reading then check this out from this article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic.../12/MN101866.DTL&hw=STRUCTURAL&sn=025&sc=505:
"That impact was too much, and no building could possibly withstand such weight, so floor after floor came down in what we call progressive collapse"
-Hassan Astaneh
His Creditentials:
"CEE professor Hassan Astaneh has been teaching at Berkeley since 1986. He has taught classes on the design of steel structures and advanced steel design engineering mechanics-static. He is an expert in the effects of disasters on steel structures and has testified before Congress on how the structural integrity of the World Trade Center reacted to the terrorist attack."

http://www.coe.berkeley.edu/engnews/fall03/EN10F/Prof Min.html

I'll take this gentleman's opinion! Or the following...
"Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.
His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
- Dr. Steffen
His Creditentials:
http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/struct/kas/
http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~kas14/

There you go two opinions from a professor at the University of Cambridge (UK) and one from Berkley. Two amazingly high universities. I can post more but I think we all got the point.

he INTERVIEWED those experts you mentioned on demolitions,aviation,engineering,construction in his book.THOSE people dont accept the official version for a second as Griffith has proved in his book.

So did the people at popular mechanics. They also interviewed people were are experts in those fields who DO accept the official version.

considering you use all those laughable links

What about them are laughable? Answer this question: What was it about the winner of the 2003 Forensic Engineer of the year Award that was laughable? Or how about the individual who, "was elected to the National Academy of Engineering in 1996 and to the National Academy of Sciences in 2002, 1 of only 153 members with such a dual appointment." (Inaugural Article: Biography of Zdeněk P. Bažant) Why dont you inform us how the professors at MIT, Edinburgh, University of Sydney, Purdue, or other high universities. As I said to Eots; You made this state now back it up. Sadly enough it appears that the more you all make statements it appears that you can say that my experts are invalid, but can NEVER back it up.

that have been debunked countless times by experts like that old propaganda site underneath the popular mechanics link you provided,and you havent bothered to address many of my points I brought up on your other thread that I have repeated to you at LEAST 3 times,you always show that contrary to what you say,you DO only read parts of our posts and NOT all of it.

What point was that you said three times now that I havent responded too? I have asked you all NUMEROUS questions to support your theory that went unanswered. For example, I have probably asked about five time now why our govt would inform the media about their plans of attacks and your response is crickets chirping. I have also asked countless times why my experts are so far-fetched to the same response. I have also shown that Bin Laden has admitted to these attacks and was never given an adequate reply. Eots did supply some links in regards to it but they were EASILY dismissible.

you know it,we know it.I have given you links to sites that answer all the points you bring up,you never looked at those sites.you just said that you looked at his book,yeah you LOOKED at it,you didnt read it though obviously.

Do you have a camera in my home and are spying at me? How do you know how much I have read or not read? You ASSUME I didnt do anything because it weakens your argument when I claim (and have) read your posts and done what else you asked of me. The fact of the matter is you and eots are just not that convincing. For example, I asked why you believe the Clinton, Bush's administrations were behind the attacks. You replied b/c they are the CFR puppets and are willing to do whatever they ask. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing this. You then say that Obama knows of the attacks and is unable to inform us because he is also a puppet for the CFR. Of course you never back up this statement as well. Bush is the president and Obama will be one on 1/20. NOBODY, can tell them what they can or cannot do. It is interesting that these are and were the most powerful people on the planet yet are being told what to do by the CFR. Meanwhile, they CFR and our govt cant keep alex jones quiet!

yeah the temperature would increase but he proves in his book,that the designers of the buildings said there would be a great loss of life from the fires but the structures themselves would stay intact and remain standing.

This is what doesnt make sense. He said the temp on the planes were just slightly below the temp for the steel structure to soften. Then the friction from the crash would obviously cause it to increase above that amount. What I would like to know is how he knows how much the exact temp would increase from the crash. As I have said there are also MANY experts who agree with me. Like the award winners and the professors of MIT, Purdue, and from the other Universities I gave. Sorry, but I will take their word over someone who is a retired philosophy professor!

Griffith also in his book and in other books out there as well, also shows that the people you mention as experts,that they ALSO have government contracts as well,that they are HARDLY independent experts like popular mechanics claims them to be. sorry but I would say that the people like Kevin Ryan -who actually helped build the towwers,who have said that the towers would withstand an airliner slamming into it and the fires would kill people but not bring the towers down,I'll listen to those people over your sources like popular mechanics anyday of the year.

So do the some of the people listed from Eots list are also govt employees! As I have shown now I also have a few professors that are not even Americans. Therefore our govt has no control over what they say and they still agree with me. For example the professors at the Univeristy of Sydney and Edinburgh. Are you saying the American govt is making them say this? If you are then why cant they stop Alex Jones and company from apparently revealing the conspiracy? I know you said why you think the govt wont kill Jones, but when I asked why dont they just simply threaten his life and his family you gave no response. Just another issue I made that never received a reply from the two of you. Sorry, but I will take the word of the individuals with a number of degrees, professors, and engineer award winner and MANY other awards over your people.

 

[Big_D]

why would a magazine go to the trouble of defeding the official version and popular mechanics and THE go on to say in that article over 40% believe it was an inside job? Believe me I WILL find that article and issue where it stated that.

Because the magazine DIDNT say that. At least not from what i could find. I have supplied a poll of what I thought you were talking about and never got a response. Here is the link again: “9/11″ Zogby Poll Commissioned By Iran | Sweetness & Light
If this is the one you are talking about then you are completely ignorant of the facts.
FACT: this article is NOT asking if the people believe if they believe 9/11 was an inside job. They are asking if the govt LET it happen. Letting something happen isnt the same as making something happen. A point I have PROVEN to you both COUNTLESS times.

FACT: ONLY 4.7% of Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf
This poll was amazingly sponsored by the 9/11 truth movement.

Nobody can deny this FACT.

As I said before almost 4 TIMES the amount of peolpe believe in big foot than the attacks being a hoax.

ALSO you never answered my question,which was DO you believe in that other fairy tale commission-the warren commission fairy tale that oswald killed kennedy and was the lone assassin? cause if you have,well then your hopeless to be reasoned with on 9/11 cause if you cant belief that the CIA/MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX was behind kennedys assassination,you'll never accept it that they were behind 9/11 as well.I dont even try to reason with people who still accept the fairy tale that oswald killed kennedy,now the ones who can accept the CIA killed kennedy but believe the official version of 9/11,THOSE people I will TRY to reason with? so AGAIN,whats your answer on kennedy?

I didnt answer this b/c I thought it was just a hypothetical question nor is it relevant. To be honest, I have not researched this at all. However, I did see a documentary of this on the history channel and they went through all the points in the movie one by one. They dismissed all the points thoroughly. However, I am sure that you do not believe them at all. Other than this I have not heard anything else on the topic. If you want to start a new thread or have one to show me otherwise then please do so.

 

[Big_D]

yeah I know.First popular mechanics-which Griffith has debunked in his book,THEN NISY who changed their story at least 3 times when the experts pointed holes in it,and NOW Thomas Eager who Kevin Ryan who helped build the towers has debunked NUMEROUS times before in debates.priceless.

You take the opinion of a former philosophy professor (Griffith) over Physic and engineering experts! I have a hard time believing that anyone would be able to debunk Thomas Eager. Having a different opinion doesnt debunk anything. He is a professor at MIT! According to these sites MIT is the top engineering school in the nation!
Best Engineering Colleges 2009 | Electronics News and Comment | Blog on Design News - 1823
Top Ranked Engineering Colleges/Universities, Best Colleges Engineering
Best Engineering Colleges By Salary Potential

and this site has it listed as the best engineering school in the World!
http://skorcareer.com.my/blog/10-worlds-top-engineering-universities-schools-2007/2008/05/16/

Yet, you do not think he knows what he is talking about. Again, he is an engineering professor at the top engineering college in the WORLD and he agrees with me!

I thought that I would also throw in another mans opinion. You can read his paper here: http://www.nist.gov/testimony/2002/abwtc.html

- Dr. Arden Bement
His Credentials:
""Dr. Bement joined the Purdue faculty in 1992 after a 39-year career in industry, government and academia. His positions included: vice president of technical resources and of science and technology for TRW Inc. (1980-1992); deputy under secretary of defense for research and engineering (1979-1980); director, Office of Materials Science, DARPA (1976-1979); professor of nuclear materials, MIT (1970-1976); manager, Fuels and Materials Department and the Metallurgy Research Department, Battelle Northwest Laboratories (1965-1970); and senior research associate, General Electric Co. (1954-1965). He has also been a director of Keithley Instruments Inc. and the Lord Corp. and a member of the Science and Technology Advisory Committee for the Howmet Corp., a division of ALCOA."

http://www.nsf.gov/news/speeches/bement/bement_bio.jsp

AGAIN, how does this guy not know what he is talking about? Or how was it about the winner of the 2003 Forensic Engineer of the year Award that was silly? Or how about the individual who, "was elected to the National Academy of Engineering in 1996 and to the National Academy of Sciences in 2002, 1 of only 153 members with such a dual appointment." (Ihttp://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=518768) Why dont you inform us how the professors at MIT, Edinburgh, University of Sydney, Purdue, or other high universities are not qualified to voice their opinions! Instead of keep avoiding this issue why don't you hit it head on? I am still waiting for you both to do so.

 

[Big_D]

Oh by the way Bid D,dont worry I'll read your link on professor Bazent and what he says but im sure its as laughable as your OTHER sources such as POPULAR MECHANICS,

Good I look forward to reading it. FYI his is another exert from his credentials:
"In 1996, he received the Prager Medal from the Society of Engineering Science (SES) and the Newmark Medal from the American Society of Civil Engineers. In 1997, the American Society of Mechanical Engineers awarded him the Warner Medal, which recognizes outstanding contributions to the engineering literature. He has received four honorary doctorates and will be presented with a fifth this fall from l'Institut National des Sciences Appliquées in Lyon, France. Bažant has authored or coauthored six books and more than 450 articles in refereed journals. In 2001, he received the award of Highly Cited Researcher, which is given by the Institute for Scientific Information to only 250 authors worldwide across all engineering fields. In addition, he served as president of SES and was founding president of the International Association of Fracture Mechanics and Concrete Structures."
Inaugural Article: Biography of Zdeněk P. Bažant

Sounds to me he knows what he is talking about.

As I asked before, please explain to me how this gentleman and the countless others I posted are laughable?

links to those two propaganda sites below it that you listed thats been debunked as well,THOMAS EAGER that again Kevin Ryan has debunked MANY times and the findings of NIST which haave been debunked by Griffith and other experts numerous times as well which is why they kept changing their story and could never get their story straight.LOL.meanwhile I will look and hunt for that article I saw and come back and post it here when I find it.

Even if those stories are debunked that still leaves COUNTLESS others that I have supplied that believe me. As I said before Eager is an engineering professor at the top engineering school in the WORLD. Yet, you dont think he knows what he is talking about. Again, having a different opinion doesnt debunk anything. Meanwhile, you will believe Griffiths word over NUMEROUS experts in physics and engineering when he was only a philosophy professor!

till then I'll just enjoy watching Eots take you to school and watch you live in denial. LOl.

By "Take me to school" do you mean make points how my experts are fools and NEVER backs that up? Or do you mean how he said that the bin laden tapes are fake and NEVER backed it up. I also asked him, "Why cant the govt stop 9/11 conspiracy believers from exposing them if they pulled off the biggest conspiracy of all time?" about five times to no reply whatsoever. He continually avoided it over and over again and went on to other aspects I was arguing that were more in his favor. You will NEVER win a discussion that way. Or do you mean when I make many other points to no response? Sorry, but I will believe Bin Laden when he said he did the attacks.

btw i was watching a special on PBS about the kennedy assassination the other night and of course they were propagating the idea that oswald did it and there was no conspiracy,but they went on at the end to say something like despite all these findings,70% of the public still believe there was a conspiracy.why would over 70% believe in a conspiracy to kill kennedy but that only 4% as you claim would only believe in 9/11?

You seem to be doing me a favor with that info. If you are saying that the kennedy assassination is true and that is why 70 percent of the people then the 9/11 conspiracy must NOT be true as it has only 4 percent that agree with you.

 

[eots]

[

QUOTE=Big_D;938457]Good I look forward to reading it. FYI his is another exert from his credentials:
"In 1996, he received the Prager Medal from the Society of Engineering Science (SES) and the Newmark Medal from the American Society of Civil Engineers. In 1997, the American Society of Mechanical Engineers awarded him the Warner Medal, which recognizes outstanding contributions to the engineering literature. He has received four honorary doctorates and will be presented with a fifth this fall from l'Institut National des Sciences Appliquées in Lyon, France. Bažant has authored or coauthored six books and more than 450 articles in refereed journals. In 2001, he received the award of Highly Cited Researcher, which is given by the Institute for Scientific Information to only 250 authors worldwide across all engineering fields. In addition, he served as president of SES and was founding president of the International Association of Fracture Mechanics and Concrete Structures."
Inaugural Article: Biography of Zdeněk P. Bažant

Sounds to me he knows what he is talking about.

As I asked before, please explain to me how this gentleman and the countless others I posted are laughable?

there are not countless others..and you cherry pick the best one ther where legions of magazines editors and other such laughable experts listed do I really need to post them again ?

Even if those stories are debunked that still leaves COUNTLESS others that I have supplied that believe me. As I said before Eager is an engineering professor at the top engineering school in the WORLD. Yet, you dont think he knows what he is talking about. Again, having a different opinion doesnt debunk anything. Meanwhile, you will believe Griffiths word over NUMEROUS experts in physics and engineering when he was only a philosophy professor!

don't pretend it s just griffin

By "Take me to school" do you mean make points how my experts are fools and NEVER backs that up? Or do you mean how he said that the bin laden tapes are fake and NEVER backed it up

.

I most defiantly did..not going to do it again..fbi..tapes nonconclusive

I also asked him, "Why cant the govt stop 9/11 conspiracy believers from exposing them if they pulled off the biggest conspiracy of all time?" about five times to no reply whatsoever.

..answer ..they have..so far...its called a cover up[/I ]and its a ridiculous question..why wont they ,,is a better one....because intelligent a patriotic Americans will demand answers until the truth is told

He continually avoided it over and over again and went on to other aspects I was arguing that were more in his favor. You will NEVER win a discussion that way. Or do you mean when I make many other points to no response? Sorry, but I will believe Bin Laden when he said he did the attacks.

of course you do

You seem to be doing me a favor with that info. If you are saying that the kennedy assassination is true and that is why 70 percent of the people then the 9/11 conspiracy must NOT be true as it has only 4 percent that agree with you

polling is not how we investigate a crime

 

[Big_D]

Another post by eots and another example of how he cannot back up what he is saying and avoided a number of issues.

[

there are not countless others..and you cherry pick the best one ther where legions of magazines editors and other such laughable experts listed do I really need to post them again ?

There were magazine editors and newspaper writers on that list but as I have said a great number of times now, so were professors, scientists, high officers in the armed forces, and people with numerous degrees. The magazine editors and newspaper writers were there because they used information from an article written. They didnt ask these people about a field they are not in. What I gave you was the sources page for the popular mechanics article, therefore they had to give them credit for their work. So why dont you back up your statement and explain why the rest of the collection on popular mechanics were laughable? Were the people with PHD's unqualified? How about the people with P.E., S.E., S.B., S.M., or the other degrees listed? How about a professors of engineering? Would those people know anything about a building collapse? What about the Physics professors? Please explain who unqualified they are. Would you think that the director of aviation for the VF Corp would know anything about a plane crash? Would you think that the squadron commander of the U.S. airforce know anything about air defense? Here are my lists again: http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...uilding-7-before-it-happens-7.html#post931319, http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...ilding-7-before-it-happens-10.html#post936466

I also have A LOT more that just popular mechanics. I asked what about professors Bazant and you never responded how he was unqualified. So I will ask again: How is he unqualified? Why dont you answer the question this time? Here is his credentials again in case you forgot: Inaugural Article: Biography of Zdeněk P. Bažant His credentials clearly speak for themselves. Also dont stop at him. Since you just said my experts were laughable then please inform me how ALL of them are so.
How about the list of the following people who also agree with me? I will post the individual with their credentials. As I have shown in previous posts, ALL of these people agree with me.
Dr. Asif Usmani: Fire Safety Engineering
Dr. Jose Torero: Fire Safety Engineering
Dr. Tim Wilkinson: Tim Wilkinson - Civil Engineering - The University of Sydney
Dr. Hassan Astaneh: Engineering News, Date (his credentials are under his photo)
Dr. Ronald Greeley : https://sec.was.asu.edu/directory/person/39261
Dr. W. Gene Corley: W. Gene Corley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dr. Robert L. Parker: Robert L. Parker
Dr. Thomas R. Edwards: Thomas R. Edwards, Jr. Memorial Service
Dr. James G. Quintiere:James G. Quintiere, Faculty, Department of Fire Protection Engineering, University of Maryland
Dr. Mete Sozen: https://engineering.purdue.edu/CE/People/view_person?resource_id=2260
Dr. Fred Culick: GALCIT :: Fred Culick
Dr. Ching S. Chang: The College of Engineering University of Massachusetts | C.S. Chang
There are plenty more, but that is all I feel like posting at this time.
So again, inform me how these people are laughable?


Since you said that these people are laughable I expect you to back it up. However, the more and more you post the more it shows that you cannot do this. I am STILL waiting for you two to do so.

don't pretend it s just griffin

As you can see from the links I provided there are CLEARLY numerous other experts who agree with the true story of 9/11. As ANYONE can see there a great number of experts, that are more knowledgeable than Griffin is on this subject matter, that agree with me.

I most defiantly did..not going to do it again..fbi..tapes nonconclusive

Do you really believe that? After stating about five times or so that Bin Laden admitted to the attacks you finally respond to it with three youtube clips. As I have said, this response was overturned as all three were ridiculous. The first one you showed was a clip of a newscast talking about a bin laden video that wasnt even shown to the public yet! The newscasters said that the upcoming video COULD have been a fake. Then NEVER said it was one. The second youtube clip was an interview with bin ladens son. I have NO idea why you posted that one. You claim that he said that his fathers videos are fakes but he never even mentions the videos. Nowhere in the clip does he say that his father's tapes are fakes. In fact, when the newscaster asked him if on 9/11 he thought his father was responsible, he responded, "Yeah, maybe." Sounds like Bin Laden's own son agrees with me. The last clip claimed that one of bin ladens videos is fake. The clip is only 42 seconds long. The announcer only gives us two reasons why they are fake. 1) Bin Laden is "shown" in the video writing a note with his right hand when in fact he is left handed. However, as anyone can see from the video his arm is clearly out of the shot. We do not know what he is doing with his right hand and the announcer is presuming that he is writing a note. 2) Bin laden looks different in this video than the other ones. However, the guy actually admits at the beginning of the clip that this video is of poor quality. That is why he looks different! If the govt actually did create this video I'm sure they have the funds to make it as accurate as possible. As a result, NONE of the youtube clips you provided were able to prove that the bin laden tapes are fake. In fact, he has made a number of different ones and your best video only criticized the one.

..answer ..they have..so far...its called a cover up[/I ]and its a ridiculous question..why wont they ,,is a better one....because intelligent a patriotic Americans will demand answers until the truth is told

That doesn't make sense. You all agree that Alex Jones is exposing the govt correct? If so then they would obviously stop him from doing so. Why cant they threaten him so that he then agrees with the govt or talk about something else? Noway would the govt just LET someone expose them on the air waves. If the govt can convince over 95% of the people of a "hoax" then they can accomplish this.

of course you do

If 9/11 was an inside job then why is osama bin laden not even exposing the govt? The biggest enemy this nation has agrees that our govt is not responsible for the attacks! Bin laden is still a powerful man in the middle east. If he would say that our govt did it to ourselves then it would convince many more middle easterners.

polling is not how we investigate a crime

You're right. It doesnt change the fact that 9/11 inside job had the incorrect poll. I also have a hard time believing that if the 9/11 hoax believers had better points then they would be able to convince more than 4.7% of the people. Evidently, the big foot believers have more points to go on as much more people believe in that compared to the 9/11 conspiracy!

 

[eots]

"Yes, it sounds like him, but the voice is not as soft as previous tapes by Osama bin Laden, and delivery is not as slow as previous delivery," said Melham. "I really can't say with any degree of certainty that that's him."

CNN.com - Is it the voice of bin Laden? - Nov. 14, 2002

 

[eots]

so big d ..please tell me about the bio weapon experiment conducted in NY by the government on its citizens...

 

[Big_D]

"Yes, it sounds like him, but the voice is not as soft as previous tapes by Osama bin Laden, and delivery is not as slow as previous delivery," said Melham. "I really can't say with any degree of certainty that that's him."

CNN.com - Is it the voice of bin Laden? - Nov. 14, 2002

This is not one of the videos where bin laden admitted to the 9/11 attacks, so this article is pointless. The videos were he did claim responsibility are not regarded as fakes. That is why they hold water. When he says, "...delivery is not as slow as previous delivery," wouldn't you then believe that Melham thinks the prevoius tapes are real? This would include the ones where bin laden claims responsibility.

Also, Melham went on to state in the article: "That soft spoken diabolical voice, if you will, attracted some people, obviously, and because it was as distinct as I said earlier, and that's why when I heard it the first time it didn't hit me as this is the authentic Osama, but I could be wrong"
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/11/12/binladen.voice.id/]CNN.com - Is it the voice of bin Laden? - Nov. 14, 2002
I will admit that this tape the are referring to at least has a good possibility of being a fake but since he is not accepting credit for the 9/11 attacks it is irrelevant.

 

[eots]

Dick Cheney admits Bin Laden is innocent
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I22AmlZFzKg]YouTube - Dick Cheney admits Bin Laden is innocent[/ame]

 

[Big_D]

so big d ..please tell me about the bio weapon experiment conducted in NY by the government on its citizens...

So what is this, another conspiracy? Why dont you tell us how my list of experts I have posted earlier today were "laughable." You seem to be avoiding that issue.

Dick Cheney admits Bin Laden is innocent
YouTube - Dick Cheney admits Bin Laden is innocent

Do you remember what I said in regards to this video beforehand? Cheney is not saying that Bin Laden is innocent. NOWHERE in that video does he say that. Watch the video to find out for yourself. Bin laden confessed to this on a few different occasions:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1550477.cms
Bin Laden claims responsibility for 9/11
Bin Laden, Most Wanted For Embassy Bombings?
Bin Laden says he ordered 9/11 attacks

 

[eots]

just admit the facts bin laden is not on the the fbi most wanted for 911..reason no conclusive...if you wish to phone them and ask the reason yourself feel free..I DID
FBI - Most Wanted - The FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives

]...none of the are government counter terrorism directors or norad tac directors or top gun flight instructors...6 man to walk on the moon..head of the depleted uranium program awarded with the highest of military and presidential medals..it just does not compare


and the biggest irony is the director of NIST calls the investigation failed and a cover -up as do many of the 911 commission members yet you hold there reports up as truth
so you disagree with those you are agreeing with





Timothy J. Roemer, PhD, 9/11 Commissioner – Former 6-term Congressman from Indiana (1991 - 2003). Former member of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Currently President of the Center for National Policy.

CNN Article 8/2/06 : "A member of the 9/11 commission said Wednesday that panel members so distrusted testimony from Pentagon officials that they referred their concerns to the Pentagon's inspector general. ... "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting," Roemer told CNN. "We were not sure of the intent, whether it was to deceive the commission or merely part of the fumbling bureaucracy."



John F. Lehman, Jr., PhD – 9/11 Commissioner. Former Secretary of the Navy 1981 - 1987. Former staff member to Henry Kissinger on the National Security Council. Member, Project for the New American Century (PNAC).
Article Washington Post 8/2/06: "Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate. ...

"My view of that was that whether it was willful or just the fog of stupid bureaucracy, I don't know," Lehman said. "But in the order of magnitude of things, going after bureaucrats because they misled the commission didn't seem to make sense to me." washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

John J. Farmer, Jr., Senior Counsel, 9/11 Commission – Former Attorney General of the State of New Jersey. Former Chief Counsel to former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman. Former Commissioner of the State Commission of Investigations. Former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey.

Washington Post Article 8/2/06 - "Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate. ...

"I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described," John Farmer, a former New Jersey attorney general who led the staff inquiry into events on Sept. 11, said in a recent interview. "The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. ... This is not spin. This is not true." http://www.washingtonpost





Peter Rundlet, Counsel for the 9/11 Commission – Former Associate Counsel to President Clinton. Former White House Fellow, serving in the Office of the Chief of Staff to President Clinton. Former Vice President for National Security and International Affairs, Center for American Progress.

Currently Director of Policy and Government Relations for Humanity United, an independent grantmaking organization committed to building a world where modern-day slavery and mass atrocities are no longer possible.
Essay 9/30/06: "A mixture of shock, anger, and sadness overcame me when I read about revelations in Bob Woodward’s new book about a special surprise visit that George Tenet and his counterterrorism chief Cofer Black made to Condi Rice, also on July 10, 2001 ...

If true, it is shocking that the administration failed to heed such an overwhelming alert from the two officials in the best position to know. Many, many questions need to be asked and answered about this revelation — questions that the 9/11 Commission would have asked, had the Commission been told about this significant meeting. Suspiciously, the Commissioners and the staff investigating the administration’s actions prior to 9/11 were never informed of the meeting.



Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation

by Alan Miller Page 1 of 3 page(s)


OpEdNews » Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation


Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

 

[eots]

and pleases share with me on your insights on the bioweapon experiments in NY