Founding Fathers against Obama

[The T]

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."

Patrick Henry

Obama is constantly operating in concealment. How much time has he spent in private meetings with union bosses? Why is he promising to take our missiles out of Poland and then when asked for an explanation; all we get is "it's complicated." The Patriot Act is the biggest joke of all. We can get spied on and then never even told that it occurred.

Obama's transparency in action...

 

[kiwiman127]

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."

Patrick Henry

Obama is constantly operating in concealment. How much time has he spent in private meetings with union bosses? Why is he promising to take our missiles out of Poland and then when asked for an explanation; all we get is "it's complicated." The Patriot Act is the biggest joke of all. We can get spied on and then never even told that it occurred.

Yeah, Obama certainly lacks the transparency he promised.
But then, so have previous presidents who also had secret meetings with special interest. Who can forget the secret meetings by the White House with the energy sector and their input into designing America's energy policies? And that's just one example. It went all the way to the Supreme Court because that particluar administration didn't want anyone to now exactly who was involved!!! Or am I off the topic ala the thread?

 

[JakeStarkey]

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."

Patrick Henry

Obama is constantly operating in concealment. How much time has he spent in private meetings with union bosses? Why is he promising to take our missiles out of Poland and then when asked for an explanation; all we get is "it's complicated." The Patriot Act is the biggest joke of all. We can get spied on and then never even told that it occurred.

Both parties are deeply at fault for this, not just Obama. Do you know Romney's position on the Patriot Act. I do, and I am not happy about it.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Read the history. They were men of bravery, virtue, integrity, wisdom, foresight, uprightness, perseverance, knowledge, etc. I don't know what you think a role model is or how a man becomes great; but I know that you cannot point me to a better and more influential group of souls.

The founders were brave men but they also knew that things change over time. If they didn't believe that, then they would have finalized the constitution instead of allowing future governments to add amendments to it. Things change over time and that's something they understood but it doesn't seem like Republicans understands that today.

And if the founders were "perfect" then they wouldn't have left the issue of slavery to somebody else in the future. They would have dealt with it in the beginning.

Yes; but they understood the human nature, the propensity for corruption, checks and balances, solidarity, the importance of states rights, liberties, justice, etc. They were well learned and they understood that the Constitution was the backbone of America. They wisely crafted bylines that could not easily be changed but without the concerted will of the people. You make it sound like they were creating a document for their time only. They had great foresight and many of them prophesied that they had made a document for the ages. How presumptuous that there are those of us that think we are more keen than the founding fathers. I have thoroughly studied them and I can unequivocally tell you that that is not so. They operated on the basis of timeless truths and the highest values.

No wonder they put up such major barriers against limited liability corporations. After all, wasn't that what the real tea party was about. What do you believe they'd think about the Robert's court decision?

 

[francoHFW]

To review- total Pubcrappe for the dupes!! Liberals are liberals, and times change DUH- no matter WHAT some RW hacks wrote. They were the big (but intelligent) gov't liberals of the day- just took a constitution and laws to protect the citizens, in those days. BIG admirers of the French Enlightenment...

The first thing the founding Fathers would do today is hogtie the Pub Propaganda Machine, because BS is BS LOL...ay caramba.

 

[kiwiman127]

The founders were brave men but they also knew that things change over time. If they didn't believe that, then they would have finalized the constitution instead of allowing future governments to add amendments to it. Things change over time and that's something they understood but it doesn't seem like Republicans understands that today.

And if the founders were "perfect" then they wouldn't have left the issue of slavery to somebody else in the future. They would have dealt with it in the beginning.

Yes; but they understood the human nature, the propensity for corruption, checks and balances, solidarity, the importance of states rights, liberties, justice, etc. They were well learned and they understood that the Constitution was the backbone of America. They wisely crafted bylines that could not easily be changed but without the concerted will of the people. You make it sound like they were creating a document for their time only. They had great foresight and many of them prophesied that they had made a document for the ages. How presumptuous that there are those of us that think we are more keen than the founding fathers. I have thoroughly studied them and I can unequivocally tell you that that is not so. They operated on the basis of timeless truths and the highest values.

No wonder they put up such major barriers against limited liability corporations. After all, wasn't that what the real tea party was about. What do you believe they'd think about the Robert's court decision?

Do you mean when corporations had to go state by state for charters to operate within a state. Or are you pointing out that corporations were allowed to exist for only 30-40 years and offer just one commodity to sell?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Yes; but they understood the human nature, the propensity for corruption, checks and balances, solidarity, the importance of states rights, liberties, justice, etc. They were well learned and they understood that the Constitution was the backbone of America. They wisely crafted bylines that could not easily be changed but without the concerted will of the people. You make it sound like they were creating a document for their time only. They had great foresight and many of them prophesied that they had made a document for the ages. How presumptuous that there are those of us that think we are more keen than the founding fathers. I have thoroughly studied them and I can unequivocally tell you that that is not so. They operated on the basis of timeless truths and the highest values.

No wonder they put up such major barriers against limited liability corporations. After all, wasn't that what the real tea party was about. What do you believe they'd think about the Robert's court decision?

Do you mean when corporations had to go state by state for charters to operate within a state. Or are you pointing out that corporations were allowed to exist for only 30-40 years and offer just one commodity to sell?

I give T-Jeff all the props in the world for prophesying about the potential corruption of corporations. But remember that he was not exactly a domestic commerce visionary. He figured that this land would be farms for centuries to come.

And no, the T-Party was not about corporations. It was about no taxation without representation and it evolved to independence.

I agree that corporations need to have their power reigned in. Absolutely. But let's not pervert history in that endeavor.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."

Patrick Henry

Obama is constantly operating in concealment. How much time has he spent in private meetings with union bosses? Why is he promising to take our missiles out of Poland and then when asked for an explanation; all we get is "it's complicated." The Patriot Act is the biggest joke of all. We can get spied on and then never even told that it occurred.

Both parties are deeply at fault for this, not just Obama. Do you know Romney's position on the Patriot Act. I do, and I am not happy about it.

Which is why I supported Ron Paul initially. Hopefully Romney's position will "evolve" though.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why people have so much respect for the founding fathers I cant fathom. While they were decent men, I surely dont have any more respect for them than anyone else. They werent perfect nor role models in any way shape or form.

Then you really know nothing about history or human nature.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It won't, and we will be stuck with it. I, as you, will vote for him, and I will continue working with my allies here to limit the far right and libertarian influence in our county and regional party committees.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Why people have so much respect for the founding fathers I cant fathom. While they were decent men, I surely dont have any more respect for them than anyone else. They werent perfect nor role models in any way shape or form.

Then you really know nothing about history or human nature.

Here is the best example of projection one will ever find. Cecilie1200 completely outed herself.

 

[Listening]

To review- total Pubcrappe for the dupes!! Liberals are liberals, and times change DUH- no matter WHAT some RW hacks wrote. They were the big (but intelligent) gov't liberals of the day- just took a constitution and laws to protect the citizens, in those days. BIG admirers of the French Enlightenment...

The first thing the founding Fathers would do today is hogtie the Pub Propaganda Machine, because BS is BS LOL...ay caramba.

I see your rep keeps declining (each time it gets to 10....it slides).

Could not happen to a nicer guy.

As usual, you are full of crap and don't know what you are saying. The founders put up with all kinds of propaganda. The whole basis of the Federalist Papers were the falsehoods (and some truths) that were being published about the constitution.

And then John Adams and Co. tried things like the Aliens and Sedition acts. That is why, in 1800, after a very bitter campaign, Adams and his centralists were swept onto the street and Jefferson took over.

Get a clue asshole.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Read the history. They were men of bravery, virtue, integrity, wisdom, foresight, uprightness, perseverance, knowledge, etc. I don't know what you think a role model is or how a man becomes great; but I know that you cannot point me to a better and more influential group of souls.

The founders were brave men but they also knew that things change over time. If they didn't believe that, then they would have finalized the constitution instead of allowing future governments to add amendments to it. Things change over time and that's something they understood but it doesn't seem like Republicans understands that today.

And if the founders were "perfect" then they wouldn't have left the issue of slavery to somebody else in the future. They would have dealt with it in the beginning.

1) Who ever said they were perfect?

2) It's easy to sit here from the vantage point of the work already having been done for you and bloviate on how the people who actually did it didn't accomplish it fast enough to suit you.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

It won't, and we will be stuck with it. I, as you, will vote for him, and I will continue working with my allies here to limit the far right and libertarian influence in our county and regional party committees.

Libertarians are the answer. I don't care if you call them far right or whatever. Dems and Republicans have been walking lock-step on the plank.

 

[The T]

It won't, and we will be stuck with it. I, as you, will vote for him, and I will continue working with my allies here to limit the far right and libertarian influence in our county and regional party committees.

Libertarians are the answer. I don't care if you call them far right or whatever. Dems and Republicans have been walking lock-step on the plank.

And pushing each other off the cliff in the meantime...

 

[francoHFW]

To review- total Pubcrappe for the dupes!! Liberals are liberals, and times change DUH- no matter WHAT some RW hacks wrote. They were the big (but intelligent) gov't liberals of the day- just took a constitution and laws to protect the citizens, in those days. BIG admirers of the French Enlightenment...

The first thing the founding Fathers would do today is hogtie the Pub Propaganda Machine, because BS is BS LOL...ay caramba.

I see your rep keeps declining (each time it gets to 10....it slides).

Could not happen to a nicer guy.

As usual, you are full of crap and don't know what you are saying. The founders put up with all kinds of propaganda. The whole basis of the Federalist Papers were the falsehoods (and some truths) that were being published about the constitution.

And then John Adams and Co. tried things like the Aliens and Sedition acts. That is why, in 1800, after a very bitter campaign, Adams and his centralists were swept onto the street and Jefferson took over.

Get a clue asshole.

I could give a shytte about reps, they're for circle jerk dupes who are the world's laughingstock- just like the circle jerk BULLSHYTTE Pub Propaganda machine you idolize...you're ALL a disgrace.

Things have moved on since the FF's, though they are to be admired, at least you got THAT far in History class. Now read about the disgraceful 1980-2008 Pub disaster- SEE SIG PP1 and 3, moron.

 

[Urkie]

Read the history. They were men of bravery, virtue, integrity, wisdom, foresight, uprightness, perseverance, knowledge, etc. I don't know what you think a role model is or how a man becomes great; but I know that you cannot point me to a better and more influential group of souls.

The founders were brave men but they also knew that things change over time. If they didn't believe that, then they would have finalized the constitution instead of allowing future governments to add amendments to it. Things change over time and that's something they understood but it doesn't seem like Republicans understands that today.

And if the founders were "perfect" then they wouldn't have left the issue of slavery to somebody else in the future. They would have dealt with it in the beginning.

1) Who ever said they were perfect?

2) It's easy to sit here from the vantage point of the work already having been done for you and bloviate on how the people who actually did it didn't accomplish it fast enough to suit you.

He implied that they were pretty close to perfect I would say. Just re-read his post.

I admitted that the founders were great men but they did not have an answer for everything. They had good foresight but they could not have foreseen some of the issues this country has gone though and they knew that would happen.

And yes it is easy to look back but slavery becoming an issue should have been obvious to them. They chose to ignore it and created a problem that wasn't resolved for almost 200 years.

 

[francoHFW]

The FF's would be all for Obama and justice, against lying, cheating Pubs and their stupid dupes...Tory morons...

 

[Listening]

To review- total Pubcrappe for the dupes!! Liberals are liberals, and times change DUH- no matter WHAT some RW hacks wrote. They were the big (but intelligent) gov't liberals of the day- just took a constitution and laws to protect the citizens, in those days. BIG admirers of the French Enlightenment...

The first thing the founding Fathers would do today is hogtie the Pub Propaganda Machine, because BS is BS LOL...ay caramba.

I see your rep keeps declining (each time it gets to 10....it slides).

Could not happen to a nicer guy.

As usual, you are full of crap and don't know what you are saying. The founders put up with all kinds of propaganda. The whole basis of the Federalist Papers were the falsehoods (and some truths) that were being published about the constitution.

And then John Adams and Co. tried things like the Aliens and Sedition acts. That is why, in 1800, after a very bitter campaign, Adams and his centralists were swept onto the street and Jefferson took over.

Get a clue asshole.

I could give a shytte about reps, they're for circle jerk dupes who are the world's laughingstock- just like the circle jerk BULLSHYTTE Pub Propaganda machine you idolize...you're ALL a disgrace.

Things have moved on since the FF's, though they are to be admired, at least you got THAT far in History class. Now read about the disgraceful 1980-2008 Pub disaster- SEE SIG PP1 and 3, moron.

Heeeeellllllllooooooo Dickweed !

You there ?

Paying attention ?

You were whining about the propaganda machine (somehow you are one of those pissant lemmings who only thinks the other side does it....lol....moron dupe (to coin a phrase)).

The founders were all to aware of this and they never would have moved to shut anything down. Adams tried and got tossed out on his ass.

Wake up and take a history class.

You were a teacher ?

 

[Listening]

The FF's would be all for Obama and justice, against lying, cheating Pubs and their stupid dupes...Tory morons...

No, they would have put him to work in the fields.

And not because he is black.

Just because that would be the one place he could not screw anything up.

And your sorry ass would be right next to him.....if you were lucky.