Forerunners: The Fabian Socialists

[NYcarbineer]

What's wrong, exactly, in principle, with Fabian socialism?

It's an advocacy for democratic socialism. What's the counterpoint? Undemocratic what?

Fabians have supported such things as a minimum wage and universal healthcare. Other than such ideas being poisonous to the cretins on the Right,

what's the problem?

 

[NYcarbineer]

8. "...Martin Amis, in his powerful book, Koba the Dread, described the fawning credulity and blind dishonesty of the founders of the New Statesman.


.

Excellent.

Martin Amis who said:

“ We can begin by saying, not only that we respect Muhammad, but that no serious person could fail to respect Muhammad - a unique and luminous historical being...Judged by the continuities he was able to set in motion, Muhammad has strong claims to being the most extraordinary man who ever lived...To repeat, we respect Islam - the donor of countless benefits to mankind...But Islamism? No, we can hardly be asked to respect a creedal wave that calls for our own elimination...Naturally we respect Islam. But we do not respect Islamism, just as we respect Muhammad and do not respect Muhammad Atta.[43] ”

Tell us again how much you respect his insight and judgment?

 

[PoliticalChic]

What's wrong, exactly, in principle, with Fabian socialism?

It's an advocacy for democratic socialism. What's the counterpoint? Undemocratic what?

Fabians have supported such things as a minimum wage and universal healthcare. Other than such ideas being poisonous to the cretins on the Right,

what's the problem?

The real question....and I know it doesn't fit your default 'change the subject' strategy....is 'what is wrong with the movers and shakers of the Fabian Socialists lying (you like that part, huh?) about Stalin, and the genocides initiated by the communists.


Care to respond to that, the essence of the thread?


No?

Didn't think so.

 

[PoliticalChic]

8. "...Martin Amis, in his powerful book, Koba the Dread, described the fawning credulity and blind dishonesty of the founders of the New Statesman.


.

Excellent.

Martin Amis who said:

“ We can begin by saying, not only that we respect Muhammad, but that no serious person could fail to respect Muhammad - a unique and luminous historical being...Judged by the continuities he was able to set in motion, Muhammad has strong claims to being the most extraordinary man who ever lived...To repeat, we respect Islam - the donor of countless benefits to mankind...But Islamism? No, we can hardly be asked to respect a creedal wave that calls for our own elimination...Naturally we respect Islam. But we do not respect Islamism, just as we respect Muhammad and do not respect Muhammad Atta.[43] ”

Tell us again how much you respect his insight and judgment?

Ooooo....look!

A perfect example of your 'change the subject' strategy.


Nailed ya' again, huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. Sidney and Beatrice Webb, of the socialist Fabian Society, were among the founders of "The Statesman," and tireless supporters of Stalin's propaganda.


"....they never seemed to lose faith, still acting as cheerleaders for Stalin after many other socialists had begun to have serious doubts about the direction he was taking the USSR in. In their 1935 book Soviet Communism: A New Civilisation, they confidently predicted that the central planning system being introduced in Russia would be a great success and would soon be replicated across the world.

[In fact, the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats of America aim to do exactly that!]



A few years earlier in 1932-3 roughly four million people had died in the Ukraine due to a man-made famine that was genocide in all but name.

[What a coincidence.....just when Franklin Roosevelt reached out to the perpetrators, and offered them America's love!]

The Webbs were in the Ukraine during this period and repeatedly denied in their writings that any famine was taking place and that it was a media invention of anti-communists. Subsequent research has proven conclusively that the famine did indeed take place.

... several journalists did report on it and some of them directly confronted the Webbs with their eyewitness reports. The Webbs refused point-blank to believe them or to do their own investigation."
Political predictions they got wrong No34 Sidney and Beatrice Webb predict the success of the Soviet Union Dr Matthew Ashton s Politics Blog




Know who else was a 'tireless cheerleader for Stalin'?

Loy Henderson, State Department Russian expert said: "Russia does not fight for the same ideals as the United States."

Roosevelt swore to the American public the exact opposite: he declared that Stalin fought for the same ideals!
FDR was lying!



September 30, 1941, FDR claimed that there was freedom of religion in the USSR.

"The claim that Stalin's Russia allowed religious freedom was the first step in a massive pro-Soviet campaign that the White House coordinated for the duration of the war."
"Caught between Roosevelt and Stalin: America's Ambassadors to Moscow," by Dennis J. Dunn, p. 137



Yet, hordes of self-proclaimed intellectuals practice what of what Aquinas called 'ignorantia affectata - a cultivated ignorance'.
For them... nothing could be worse than revealing the truth about FDR!

 

[NYcarbineer]

8. "...Martin Amis, in his powerful book, Koba the Dread, described the fawning credulity and blind dishonesty of the founders of the New Statesman.


.

Excellent.

Martin Amis who said:

“ We can begin by saying, not only that we respect Muhammad, but that no serious person could fail to respect Muhammad - a unique and luminous historical being...Judged by the continuities he was able to set in motion, Muhammad has strong claims to being the most extraordinary man who ever lived...To repeat, we respect Islam - the donor of countless benefits to mankind...But Islamism? No, we can hardly be asked to respect a creedal wave that calls for our own elimination...Naturally we respect Islam. But we do not respect Islamism, just as we respect Muhammad and do not respect Muhammad Atta.[43] ”

Tell us again how much you respect his insight and judgment?

Ooooo....look!

A perfect example of your 'change the subject' strategy.


Nailed ya' again, huh?

You introduced Amis as an 'expert' witness.

Are you sure he opposes democratic socialism? Are you sure he's

Obama is not a proven failure.

So THAT'S why you're known as the NYLiar!

Prove me wrong,

but do it without cutting and pasting one of your preprinted talking points.

Wrong?

Nah....I'll prove you're a liar.

1.More than 6.7 million more Americans have been plunged into poverty since Obama became President.

2.Real household income is down 5%

3. Consumer prices are up 10.2%


4. When Obama took office on Jan. 20, 2009, the debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08. Since then, it has increased $7,514,567,086,650.22--which is $65,443 per household, $70,985 per full-time worker and $84,266 per full-time private-sector worker. Under Obama Federal Debt Up 84 266 Per Full-Time Private-Sector Worker

5. (CNSNews.com) - The federal government drove $789,473,350,613.20 deeper into debt in calendar year 2014, an increase that equaled $6,875 per household, $7,458 per full-time year-round worker, and $8,853 per full-time year-round private-sector worker. According tothe Treasury, the debt started calendar year 2014 at $17,351,970,784,950.10 and ended it at $18,141,444,135,563.30. Under Obama Federal Debt Up 84 266 Per Full-Time Private-Sector Worker

6. Food stamp recipients up 49%


7. Debt held by the public is up 89%


However, the Obama administrationrecently projected an annual deficit of $750 billion in the fiscal year that began Oct. 1, and $626 billion the year after. At that rate, the debt owed to the public will more than double during the Obama presidency.

As of 2012, according to the most recent figures reported by the Census Bureau, median (midpoint) income for all U.S. households was $51,017, which was 4.9 percent lower (in inflation-adjusted dollars) than it was in 2008, the year before Obama took office.

The same story applies to family income, which includes many families with two earners. (The “household” figure includes single persons living alone, as well as families.) Median family income in 2012 was $62,241, or 5.1 percent below the inflation-adjusted 2008 level.

The number of persons living in poverty also worsened again in 2012, according to the most recent Census figures.


8. As of last year, 46,496,000 persons lived in households with income below the official poverty line, an increase of nearly 6.7 million since 2008 and 249,000 since 2011. The total poverty rate remained unchanged in 2012 at 15 percent of the total U.S. population. So for the second straight year, the poverty rate was 1.8 points higher than it was in 2008.

Obama s Numbers October Update


9...in today’s recovery — the slowest in the modern era going back to 1947 — private capital investment has lagged badly. ... so has the jobs situation, with 92 million dropping out of the workforce altogether. A labor-participation rate of 62.8% and an employment-to-population rate of 58% are historic lows indicative of the anemic jobs recovery.Big Business Swings Behind a Mantra of Growth - The New York Sun


10. Tavis Smiley: 'Black People Will Have Lost Ground in Every Single Economic Indicator' Under Obama

Tavis Smiley Black People Will Have Lost Ground in Every Single Economic Indicator Under Obama


11. . ".... the... [dollar] has today a value of barely a 1,250th of an ounce of gold, a staggering plunge from an 853rd of an ounce on the day Mr. Obama took office...." Fiat Wages - The New York Sun



12. "CBO says deficits slated to shrink in coming years, but will soar again if spending or tax changes are not made


Federal deficits have soared between 2009 and 2012, bring the total long-term debt to a level equal to 73 percent of the nation’s GDP. “Between 2009 and 2012, the federal government recorded the largest budget deficits relative to the size of the economy since 1946, causing federal debt to soar.”

CBO says deficits slated to shrink in coming years but will soar again if spending or tax changes are not made Dallas Morning News


13. "Incomes Have Dropped Twice as Much During the 'Recovery' as During the Recession
. ...the Census Bureau's Current Population Survey ....indicate that the real (inflation-adjusted)median annual household income in America has fallen by 4.4 percent during the "recovery," after having fallen by 1.8 during the recession.

Incomes Have Dropped Twice as Much During the Recovery as During the Recession The Weekly Standard

14. "(CNSNews.com) - The real median income of American women dropped a little more than four percent in the first three full years after the end of the last recession,..... Census Bureau income data, the median income of American women was $21,520 in constant 2012 dollars. That was down $914 dollars—or about 4.1 percent—from 2009." Median Income of Women Dropped 4 --In First 3 Years of Recovery


15. "US economy slowed to 0.1 percent growth rate in Q1

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. economy slowed drastically in the first three months of the year...to a barely discernible 0.1 percent annual rate in the January-March quarter, the Commerce Department said Wednesday. That was the weakest pace since the end of 2012 and was down from a 2.6 percent rate in the previous quarter.... the anemic growth last quarter is surely a topic for discussion at the Federal Reserve's latest policy meeting,..."

My Way News - US economy slowed to 0.1 percent growth rate in Q1


16. "More Than 92 Million Americans Remain Out Of Labor Force
The unemployment rate dropped to 6.3 percent in April from 6.7 percent in March, the lowest it has been since September 2008 when it was 6.1 percent. The sharp drop, though, occurred because the number of people working or seeking work fell. The Bureau of Labor Statistics does not count people not looking for a job as unemployed.

The bureau noted that the civilian labor force dropped by 806,000 last month, following an increase of 503,000 in March."

Report More Than 92 Million Americans Remain Out Of Labor Force CBS DC

The amount (not seasonally adjusted) of Americans not in thelabor force in April rose to 92,594,000, almost 1 million more than the previous month.


17. "The U.S. economy contractedat a much steeper pace than previously estimated in the firstquarter, but there are indications that growth has sincerebounded strongly.

The Commerce Department said on Wednesday gross domesticproduct fell at a 2.9 percent annual rate, the economy's worstperformance in five years, instead of the 1.0 percent pace ithad reported last month." Final US first quarter GDP contracts

18. (CNSNews.com) - The number of Americans 16 and older who did not participate in the labor force climbed to a record high of 92,120,000 in June, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)..... the labor force participation rate for Americans was 62.8 percent, matching a 36-year low. Record Number of Americans Not in Labor Force in June

19. (CNSNews.com)– The unemployment rate for black Americans is more than double that of white Americans, according to the latest data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).... In the numbers released today, covering the month of June, the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for black Americans age 16 and over was 10.7%, reported the BLS. The unemployment rate for white Americans in the same age group and time-frame was 5.3%, said the BLS. Black Unemployment 10.7 More Than Double White Unemployment 5.3

20. (CNSNews.com) - 11.4 million Americans age 16 and over have left the workforce since President Obama took office in January 2009, according to data released today from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).
In July 2014, there were 92,001,000 Americans, 16 and over, who were classified as “not in the labor force,” meaning they not only did not have a job, but they didn’t actively seek one in the last four weeks

11 472 000 Americans Have Left Workforce Since Obama Took Office

21. "The 35.4 Percent: 109,631,000 on Welfare
109,631,000 Americans lived in households that received benefits from one or more federally funded "means-tested programs" — also known as welfare — as of the fourth quarter of 2012,according to data released Tuesdayby the Census Bureau. When those receiving benefits from non-means-tested federal programs — such as Social Security, Medicare, unemployment and veterans benefits — were added to those taking welfare benefits, it turned out that 153,323,000 people were getting federal benefits of some type at the end of 2012.

Subtract the 3,297,000 who were receiving veterans' benefits from the total, and that leaves 150,026,000 people receiving non-veterans' benefits."

The 35.4 Percent 109 631 000 on Welfare CNS News

22. "(CNSNews.com)-- In June 2014, there were 46,496,145 recipients of the food stamp program, which is enough to fill the Yankee Stadium 925 times, according todata fromthe Department of Agriculture " 46 496 145 Food Stamp Recipients Can Fill Yankee Stadium 925 Times

23. In a stunning Tuesday report, Gallup CEO and Chairman Jim Clifton revealed that “for the first time in 35 years, American business deaths now outnumber business births.”Clifton says for the past six years since 2008, employer business startups have fallen below the business failure rate, spurring what he calls“an underground earthquake” that only stands to worsen as lagging U.S. Census data becomes available.
“Let’s get one thing clear: This economy is never truly coming back unless we reverse the birth and death trends of American businesses,” writes Clifton." Economic Death Spiral More American Businesses Dying Than Starting - Breitbart

24. "Disability insurance entitlement explodes under Obama
Those of you paying attention have noticed that the Obama administration is actually doing what it promised: transforming America into a gigantic welfare state." Disability insurance entitlement explodes under Obama - tribunedigital-baltimoresun

25. Washington, D.C.- An unabated influx of illegal aliens along the southern border of the United States is causing a health crisis in the border region. Actions by the Obama Administration to disperse illegals across America while providing an incentive for more illegals to come could lead to a nationwide health crisis that is likely to manifest itself first within our public schools.....It has spread as far north as southern Mexico and south into Panama. Diseases such as this could be carried across our border by illegal immigrants and could create a nationwide health crisis. Chicken pox, measles, mumps and tuberculosis are already causing problems." — Project 21 member Michael Dozier, Ph.D., an expert in homeland security issues and talk radio host who has worked with humanitarian aid missions in Africa, Asia, the Balkans and the United States

Public Schools Face Health Threat from Illegal Aliens


26. "Despite the improving economy, most Americans continue to say that they are falling behind the cost of living. Overall, 55% said in theJan. 7-11 surveythat their family’s income is falling behind the cost of living,.... Views on this question have shown no improvement over the course of the last year..." Public opinion on the economy and Obama s handling of it Pew Research Center


27. "But with February’s slow down the 12-month wage growth rate ticked down to 2%....[Under Reagan: 'In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years.Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics Facts And Figures - Forbes ] Totalemployment gains in December and January were therefore 18,000 lower than what BLS previously reported. The labor force participation rate ticked lower to 62.8% from 62.9%, ..." Jobs Report U.S. Economy Added 295 000 Jobs In February Unemployment Down To 5.5 - Forbes

a. "But wage gains continued to lag, rising only 0.1 percent in February for private-sector workers after a reported 0.5 increase in January.... .“We hear we’re on the road to recovery, but people aren’t convinced of that.”http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/07/business/economy/jobs-report-unemployment-february.html?_r=0

b. "White youths saw their rate decrease 1.4 percent to 15 percent, but young African-Americans saw theirs reach 30 percent, a 0.3 percent increase.... For the population as a whole, participation rates are still hovering around their 1978 lows at 62.8 percent,..." Unemployment Down To 5.5 Percent In February The Daily Caller

c. "92,898,000 Americans were not in the labor force in February, according todatareleased from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) on Friday. ...The 157,002,000 who participated in the labor force was 62.8 percent of the 249,899,000 civilian noninsttutional population, which matches the 62.8 percent rate in April, May, June, and October of 2014 as well as the participation rate in March of 1978. The participation rate hit its lowest level since February 1978 (62.7 percent) in September and December of 2014. 62.8 Labor Force Participation Has Hovered Near 37-Year-Low for 11 Months

(CNSNews.com) - A record 56,023,000 women, age 16 years and over, were not in the labor force in February.,,, According to the BLS, 56.7 percent of women were participating in the labor force in February, a drop from 56.8 percent in January. 56 023 000 Record Number of Women Not in Labor Force

28. "Surprise: U.S. Economic Data Have Been the World's Most Disappointing
It's not only the just-released University of Michigan consumer confidence report and February retail sales on Thursday that surprised economists and investors with another dose of underwhelming news. Overall, U.S. economic data have been falling short of prognosticators' expectations by the most in six years." Surprise U.S. Economic Data Have Been the World s Most Disappointing - Bloomberg Business

29. "More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up
'Business deaths now exceed business births for the first time' in decades.
The American economy is less entrepreneurial now than at any point in the last three decades. That's the conclusion of anew study out from the Brookings Institution, which looks at the rates of new business creation and destruction since 1978.

Not only that, but during the most recent three years of the study -- 2009, 2010 and 2011 -- businesses were collapsing faster than they were being formed, a first. Overall, new businesses creation (measured as the share of all businesses less than one year old) declined by about half from 1978 to 2011." More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up The Weekly Standard

30. Americans Not in Labor Force Exceed 93 Million for First Time; 62.7% Labor Force Participation Matches 37-Year Low
Americans Not in Labor Force Exceed 93 Million for First Time 62.7 Labor Force Participation Matches 37-Year Low

31. Except for rich, Americans' incomes fell last year
In fresh data that adds fire to a growing debate over income inequality, the department said that Americans on average saw income decline for the second straight year in the 12 months to June 2014.

The average pre-tax income fell 0.9 percent from the same period a year earlier, to $64,432. Except for rich Americans incomes fell last year - Yahoo News

32. "The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment
The official unemployment rate, as reported by the U.S. Department of Labor, is extremely misleading.

Right now, we're hearing much celebrating from the media, the White House and Wall Street about how unemployment is "down" to 5.6%. The cheerleading for this number is deafening. The media loves a comeback story, the White House wants to score political points and Wall Street would like you to stay in the market.

While you are as unemployed as one can possibly be, and tragically may never find work again, you arenotcounted in the figure we see relentlessly in the news -- currently 5.6%. Right now, as many as 30 million Americans are either out of work or severely underemployed. Trust me, the vast majority of them aren't throwing parties to toast "falling" unemployment.

Right now, the U.S. is delivering at a staggeringlylow rate of 44%, which is the number of full-time jobs as a percent of the adult population,..." The Big Lie 5.6 Unemployment

a. "....the number of Americans not in the labor force rose once again, this time to 93,194K from 93,175K, with the result being a participation rate of 69.45 or just above the lowest percentage since 1977, will merely catalyze even more upside to the so called "market" which continues to reflect nothing but central bank liquidity, and thus - the accelerating deterioration of the broader economy." Americans Not In The Labor Force Rise To Record 93 194 000 Zero Hedge

33. "Even if you leave out the first quarter of 2009—when the recession that started in December 2007 was still ongoing--President Barack Obama has presided over the lowest average first-quarter GDP growth of any president who has served since 1947, which is the earliest year for which the Bureau of Economic Analysis has calculated quarterly GDP growth. " Blame It on Global Cooling Obama Has Lowest Average 1stQ GDP Growth of Any President on Record CNS News

34. After 6 1/2 years of Obama, 47% of Americans could not handle a $400 expense:

"The survey results reveal a lack of economic preparedness among many adults. Only 53 percent of respondents indicate that they could cover a hypothetical emergency expense costing $400 without selling something or borrowing money. Thirty-one percent of respondents report going without some form of medical care in the past year because they could not afford it." FRB Press Release--Federal Reserve Board issues Report on the Economic Well-Being of U.S. Households--May 27 2015

Excellent link showing the economy US Household Income Department of Numbers



Need foreign policy failures too?

I said without cutting and pasting your preprinted talking points.

None of that taken separately as a whole proves Obama has been a failure, for reasons not the least of which are that most of it represents things that Obama has or had no control over.

It's amazing how many RWnuts are too stupid to understand something as basic as cause and effect.

"I said without cutting and pasting your preprinted talking points."
Ah, you little cloaca, you....you seem beside yourself today.

So....an inadvertent admission that every single one on my list is true, accurate, and sourced!
Excellent!

You fools regularly attack the manner of presentation, 'cut and paste,' because you cannot deny the truth that I provide.


And never forget.....I will be in your face like Cagney with a grapefruit half…

You provided no cause and effect evidence for anything you posted that would attribute it to Obama.


Answering only yes or no,
Do you understand what cause and effect is?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What's wrong, exactly, in principle, with Fabian socialism?

It's an advocacy for democratic socialism. What's the counterpoint? Undemocratic what?

Fabians have supported such things as a minimum wage and universal healthcare. Other than such ideas being poisonous to the cretins on the Right,

what's the problem?

The real question....and I know it doesn't fit your default 'change the subject' strategy....is 'what is wrong with the movers and shakers of the Fabian Socialists lying (you like that part, huh?) about Stalin, and the genocides initiated by the communists.


Care to respond to that, the essence of the thread?


No?

Didn't think so.

What's wrong with Winston Churchill wanting a formal alliance with Stalin in the 1930's?

We have democratic socialism all over the world today, not Stalinism. And the world is better for it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

9. Sidney and Beatrice Webb, of the socialist Fabian Society, were among the founders of "The Statesman," and tireless supporters of Stalin's propaganda.


"....they never seemed to lose faith, still acting as cheerleaders for Stalin after many other socialists had begun to have serious doubts about the direction he was taking the USSR in. In their 1935 book Soviet Communism: A New Civilisation, they confidently predicted that the central planning system being introduced in Russia would be a great success and would soon be replicated across the world.

[In fact, the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats of America aim to do exactly that!]



A few years earlier in 1932-3 roughly four million people had died in the Ukraine due to a man-made famine that was genocide in all but name.

[What a coincidence.....just when Franklin Roosevelt reached out to the perpetrators, and offered them America's love!]

The Webbs were in the Ukraine during this period and repeatedly denied in their writings that any famine was taking place and that it was a media invention of anti-communists. Subsequent research has proven conclusively that the famine did indeed take place.

... several journalists did report on it and some of them directly confronted the Webbs with their eyewitness reports. The Webbs refused point-blank to believe them or to do their own investigation."
Political predictions they got wrong No34 Sidney and Beatrice Webb predict the success of the Soviet Union Dr Matthew Ashton s Politics Blog




Know who else was a 'tireless cheerleader for Stalin'?

Loy Henderson, State Department Russian expert said: "Russia does not fight for the same ideals as the United States."

Roosevelt swore to the American public the exact opposite: he declared that Stalin fought for the same ideals!
FDR was lying!



September 30, 1941, FDR claimed that there was freedom of religion in the USSR.

"The claim that Stalin's Russia allowed religious freedom was the first step in a massive pro-Soviet campaign that the White House coordinated for the duration of the war."
"Caught between Roosevelt and Stalin: America's Ambassadors to Moscow," by Dennis J. Dunn, p. 137



Yet, hordes of self-proclaimed intellectuals practice what of what Aquinas called 'ignorantia affectata - a cultivated ignorance'.
For them... nothing could be worse than revealing the truth about FDR!

The minimum wage is Stalinism? Universal healthcare is Stalinism?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Never trust a socialist/communist......they lie about everything.


10. "The [Fabian Socialists, the] Webbs were equally partisan when reporting on Stalin’s leadership of the USSR. In several books and articles they claimed that he was a completely decent human being and in no way could be considered a dictator. In 1935 they wrote:

“We have given particular attention to this point, collecting all the available evidence, and noting carefully the inferences to be drawn from the experience of the past eight years (1926-1934) We do not think that the Party is governed by the will of a single person or that Stalin is the sort of person to claim or desire such a position. He has himself very explicitly denied any such personal dictatorship in terms which, whether or not he is credited with sincerity, certainly accord with our own impression of the facts”.

They then wrote that, “In short, the government of the USSR during the past decade has been clearly no better than that of a committee. Our inference is that it has been, in fact, the very opposite of a dictatorship”. Political predictions they got wrong No34 Sidney and Beatrice Webb predict the success of the Soviet Union Dr Matthew Ashton s Politics Blog


Such is the source of most Progressive's knowledge about Stalin, the Soviet Union, and communism....the parent of today's Liberalism, and the Democrat Party.


Although the author Daniel Silva used this description in a different connection, nothing could be more appropriate as a description of Liberals:

They come in two varieties- those willing to be used, and those too stupid to realize that they are being used.

 

[amrchaos]

I think PC is trying to demonstrate the parallels between Stalin's economy and how his government 'fooled' the liberal intellectuals of his time with Obama's economy and how his government is fooling the liberal intellectuals of our time.

There is a subtle point coming across as well. Liberal intellectuals are uncritical supporters of leftist policies. Liberals will fool themselves into believing these policies are successful even when they are not.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think PC is trying to demonstrate the parallels between Stalin's economy and how his government 'fooled' the liberal intellectuals of his time with Obama's economy and how his government is fooling the liberal intellectuals of our time.

There is a subtle point coming across as well. Liberal intellectuals are uncritical supporters of leftist policies. Liberals will fool themselves into believing these policies are successful even when they are not.

Actually, economic policies are the least of it.

It is more that "Liberal intellectuals are uncritical supporters of" genocide, murder, and oppression.

 

[Socialist]

This thread is a laughable disaster.

 

[PoliticalChic]

This thread is a laughable disaster.

What is truly amusing is that a total imbecile....you.....imagine that you have the knowledge, insight...or cachet....to understand, much less judge, this or any other thread I provide.

 

[Moonglow]

How did you make the jump from a Fabian socialism in England to a communist dictatorship in Russia?
Liberals were not like by communist.
Social Democrats are closer to Marxist communist, but not the same....
The Soviet was created in 1905....The movement against the monarchy of Russia was about not getting reforms and losing battles in two wars....
yet your only ambition is to try and slur democrats that you claim I guess are communists....
Weak....And as this thread shows as your past ones, it is your only goal here at USMB. You have no other interest you post about....which leads me to believe you are nothing more than a paid shill...

 

[PoliticalChic]

How did you make the jump from a Fabian socialism in England to a communist dictatorship in Russia?
Liberals were not like by communist.
Social Democrats are closer to Marxist communist, but not the same....
The Soviet was created in 1905....The movement against the monarchy of Russia was about not getting reforms and losing battles in two wars....
yet your only ambition is to try and slur democrats that you claim I guess are communists....
Weak....And as this thread shows as your past ones, it is your only goal here at USMB. You have no other interest you post about....which leads me to believe you are nothing more than a paid shill...

"How did you make the jump from a Fabian socialism in England to a communist dictatorship in Russia?
Liberals were not like by communist."

1. Progressives are one iteration of the totalitarian outlook, one which finds the collective rather than the individual as the basis for governance.

Progressives/Liberals/Democrats are 'blood brothers' to communists, socialists, fascists, etc.



2. "How did you make the jump from a Fabian socialism in England to a communist dictatorship in Russia?"
You dope...i didn't make that 'jump'.....the Fabian Socialists did.

From the OP: "The New Statesmanis a British political and cultural magazine published in London. Founded as a weekly review of politics and literature on 12 April 1913, connected with Sidney and Beatrice Webb, and other leading members of the socialistFabian Society. The magazine has, according to its present self-description, a left-of-centre political position.

TheNew Statesmanprovoked further controversy with its coverage ofJoseph Stalin's Soviet Union. In 1932, Keynes reviewed [editor Kingsley] Martin's book on the Soviet Union,Low's Russian Sketchbook.

Keynes argued that Martin was"a little too full perhaps of good will" towards Stalin, and that any doubts about Stalin's rule had "been swallowed down if possible".[9]....In a 17 September 1932 editorial, theNew Statesmanaccused the British Conservative press of misrepresentingthe Soviet Union's agricultural policy, but added "the serious nature of the food situation is no secret and no invention".

The magazine defended the Soviet collectivization policy,but also said the policy had "proceeded far too quickly and lost the cooperation of farmers."[10]New Statesman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



3. "Liberals were not like by communist."
That's a lie, you fool.

1. "The progressive left, and the liberal left, while not themselves communists, share many of the same sympathies, such of redistribution of wealth, and worker’s rights, nationalizations of industry, etc, but are not quite as far left as the communists, and would not go to the same lengths as the communists to achieve their goals. This does not mean, though, that the help of these dupes is not necessary in order for the communists to achieve victory. Even at their peak, in the ‘30’s, the Communist Party of the United States never had more than 100 thousand members: so deception of the ‘dupes’ was critical.
   1. The archives tell a tale of plans and schemes between the CPUSA and the Communist International in Moscow, to dupe progressives and liberals: “go to rallies,” “don’t let them know you are a communist!,” “If anyone reveals that you are a communist, claim it is red-baiting,” “yell ‘McCarthyism!”
      Dr. Paul Kengor, Hoover Institution, Stanford “DUPES: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century”

4. "yet your only ambition is to try and slur democrats that you claim I guess are communists."
Since post-war, it is Liberals who have shielded and defended communists.

. ‘Moreover, it is obvious that a penetration so complete would have been impossible if the Communists had not been able to depend on the blindness or indifference of many of the far larger number of ordinary liberals who dominated the Roosevelt Administration. As early as the late 1930s, even known Communists in government were often regarded by their colleagues as merely "liberals in a hurry." And during the war, of course, they could be excused as simply enthusiasts for America's doughty ally, "good old Joe." Small wonder, then, that liberals, after the onset of the Cold War with the Soviet Union in 1946, dreaded so profoundly the disclosure of the appalling degree of governmental penetration that they now began to suspect the Communists had achieved on their watch in the 1930s and the first half of the 1940s.’
http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.1375/article_detail.asp

"....even known Communists in government were often regarded by their colleagues as merely "liberals in a hurry."


5. "as this thread shows as your past ones, it is your only goal here at USMB. You have no other interest you post about....which leads me to believe you are nothing more than a paid shill."

This is the vapid excuse of a defender of Leftists.....you.....who cannot refute a single thing I've posted.


Laminate this for your wallet: every single thing I post is true, accurate, and documented.

Everything.

 

[Votto]

What's wrong, exactly, in principle, with Fabian socialism?

It's an advocacy for democratic socialism. What's the counterpoint? Undemocratic what?

Fabians have supported such things as a minimum wage and universal healthcare. Other than such ideas being poisonous to the cretins on the Right,

what's the problem?

So Fabians support a minimum wage and universtal health care? So did Hitler.

And like Hitler, Fabians favor euthenasia for such people they deem mentally inferior. Death camps are just around the corner...........