Foreign sexual molesters hassle women on "Carnival of Cultures" in Berlin "Cologne style"

[Coyote]

It absolutely was taken out of context.

The gist of my response was: First stick to the truth and try to uncover the facts, rather than rely on hysteria.

If you rush to judgement, ahead of examining the evidence - you create hysteria and a hell of a lot of unfounded "hoaxes" that get repeated as "facts" that are used to broad brush entire groups.

There are plenty of examples of this historically, the Salem witch trials, for one - where suddenly masses of people were coming forward claiming to be victims of witchcraft, and accusing anyone who seemed odd or annoying of witchcraft.

Another example, more modern day is accusations of child molestation (and how much do you want to bet someone is going to take this and distort it to claim I somehow "excuse" child abuse) - back when such things as Megan's law were being formed to protect children from predators, there were also a lot of unfounded accusations flying about due, in part, to heavy media exposure of child predators, public fear, and some rather dodgy psychiatric methods of trying to determine if a very young child has been molested. The end result was, not unlike the Salem witch trials - you had some legitimate cases, and you had some questionable cases and you had some outright fraudulant cases. I remember two: one, a highschool coach accused by one student, then several students, who eventually recanted and said they had made it up. Another case involved a daycare run by a couple and this one was particularly ugly - they were found innocent, but their lives were ruined (where's there's smoke there's fire sort of thing). Rape and child molestation are particularly ugly crimes - at least in our culture - child rapists aren't even tolerated by other criminals. If a person is innocent - it doesn't matter, because they will be forever tainted. When you broad brush that to an entire ethnic or religious group, it's even uglier. That's why I think it's important to examine the facts, and put them in a proper context. When you don't, you perpetrate hoaxes about groups that get repeated so often they are uncritically accepted as truth.

Look at the ones below - how many of them have you just assumed are truth? I've seem them bandied about here as "facts".

For example...

Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones
FALSE: Paris Under Muslim Siege
Muslims in Japan
Muslim Men Can Have 4 Wives on Welfare in Michigan?
Muslim Men Auctioning off Women in England
Blackout of Muslims Chanting 'Death to America' on Video?
Muslim Demographics
Muslim Government in the U.S.
City in Michigan First to Fully Implement Sharia Law

That is a lie.

Rape
Isis' Theology of Rape
84 schools in England show NO white British pupils...
Let's rape each other a little.
Americas Rape Culture
Americas Rape Culture
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Worst Places for Women
Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize

etc.

I want to see facts from reputable sources confirming that it was based on "Islam", that it was "racist" as opposed to cultural misogyny. I'd like to see facts as to how many incidents actually occurred before jumping on the bandwagon. And I've stated that if the law is broken, they should be punished. Refusing to accept your "analysis" is not "defending" anything it's asking for facts not opinion.

What "assumptions" specifically? I try to provide sources to support my "assumptions" - where have I erred?

That is certainly quite the huge number of words and links devoted towards the avoidance of any statement that might hint that there is anything wrong with Muslim rape gangs targeting European women.

The "Witch hunt" reference couldn't be further from the truth. The European press is burying this phenomenon rather than highlighting it.

.

I think you miss the point. ANY rape is wrong, regardless of who does it.

I think the "witch hunt" reference is very apt - mass hysteria, mass reports, mass groupthink - and - what are the facts in these incidents? We know at least one was utterly made up. Why are people so resistant to examining the facts - applying critical thinking - especially to highly inflammatory and serious claims such as rape. What's the one thing that can fire up people to violence and lynchings? "they're raping our women and children" - it's been used throughout history to inflame gang violence, usually targeting innocent people.

Have you considered telling this to the people of Rotherham?

Doing so in person might be best.

And you totally miss my point.

No we see it very clearly when you state that rape is wrong, eviction is wrong, arrest for criminal activity is wrong.

Well, I have clearly and repeatedly said rape is wrong, but where have I said arrest for criminal activity is wrong? I haven't. As for eviction - I have no problem with evicition if a non-citizen commits a felony like rape. I think that's perfectly appropriate as long as he serves his sentance first.

 

[Coyote]

You took my comment completely out of context.

First of all, this is what I was replying to:

And second, you snipped my quote - this is the entirety of it, and keep in mind - IT WAS IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE.

Given that, what am I supposed to say "is wrong"? Integration? Uncovering the facts?

What is wrong with uncovering the facts FIRST before rushing to judgement?

Nothing at all was taken out of context. You were asked if you were a Muslim -- presumably, because of your extreme degree of identification with all things Islamic along with your automatic defense thereof -- and asked what you thought of the unfolding of events in Europe. Your only response was to talk about "hysteria".

It absolutely was taken out of context.

The gist of my response was: First stick to the truth and try to uncover the facts, rather than rely on hysteria.

If you rush to judgement, ahead of examining the evidence - you create hysteria and a hell of a lot of unfounded "hoaxes" that get repeated as "facts" that are used to broad brush entire groups.

There are plenty of examples of this historically, the Salem witch trials, for one - where suddenly masses of people were coming forward claiming to be victims of witchcraft, and accusing anyone who seemed odd or annoying of witchcraft.

Another example, more modern day is accusations of child molestation (and how much do you want to bet someone is going to take this and distort it to claim I somehow "excuse" child abuse) - back when such things as Megan's law were being formed to protect children from predators, there were also a lot of unfounded accusations flying about due, in part, to heavy media exposure of child predators, public fear, and some rather dodgy psychiatric methods of trying to determine if a very young child has been molested. The end result was, not unlike the Salem witch trials - you had some legitimate cases, and you had some questionable cases and you had some outright fraudulant cases. I remember two: one, a highschool coach accused by one student, then several students, who eventually recanted and said they had made it up. Another case involved a daycare run by a couple and this one was particularly ugly - they were found innocent, but their lives were ruined (where's there's smoke there's fire sort of thing). Rape and child molestation are particularly ugly crimes - at least in our culture - child rapists aren't even tolerated by other criminals. If a person is innocent - it doesn't matter, because they will be forever tainted. When you broad brush that to an entire ethnic or religious group, it's even uglier. That's why I think it's important to examine the facts, and put them in a proper context. When you don't, you perpetrate hoaxes about groups that get repeated so often they are uncritically accepted as truth.

Look at the ones below - how many of them have you just assumed are truth? I've seem them bandied about here as "facts".

For example...

Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones
FALSE: Paris Under Muslim Siege
Muslims in Japan
Muslim Men Can Have 4 Wives on Welfare in Michigan?
Muslim Men Auctioning off Women in England
Blackout of Muslims Chanting 'Death to America' on Video?
Muslim Demographics
Muslim Government in the U.S.
City in Michigan First to Fully Implement Sharia Law

My response to you had to do with measures you could take to differentiate your own positions from those of the most hardened Islamist. You did not criticize the practice of gang rape. You did not criticize the obvious misogyny involved.

That is a lie.

Rape
Isis' Theology of Rape
84 schools in England show NO white British pupils...
Let's rape each other a little.
Americas Rape Culture
Americas Rape Culture
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Worst Places for Women
Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize

etc.

You did not criticize the way men were working in concert to target the women of their new host country. You did not acknowledge the Islamic nature of such behavior. You did not find anything wrong with the racist nature of the attacks. All you did was defend by trying to distract the conversation by trying to portray this behavior as being no different than European behavior.

I want to see facts from reputable sources confirming that it was based on "Islam", that it was "racist" as opposed to cultural misogyny. I'd like to see facts as to how many incidents actually occurred before jumping on the bandwagon. And I've stated that if the law is broken, they should be punished. Refusing to accept your "analysis" is not "defending" anything it's asking for facts not opinion.

You talk about "facts" while indulging in your own assumptions that are so completely inconsistent with established patterns of behavior as to indicate an intent to deny them rather than any actual exploration into the behavior involved.

What "assumptions" specifically? I try to provide sources to support my "assumptions" - where have I erred?

That is certainly quite the huge number of words and links devoted towards the avoidance of any statement that might hint that there is anything wrong with Muslim rape gangs targeting European women.

The "Witch hunt" reference couldn't be further from the truth. The European press is burying this phenomenon rather than highlighting it.

.

I think you miss the point. ANY rape is wrong, regardless of who does it.

I think the "witch hunt" reference is very apt - mass hysteria, mass reports, mass groupthink - and - what are the facts in these incidents? We know at least one was utterly made up. Why are people so resistant to examining the facts - applying critical thinking - especially to highly inflammatory and serious claims such as rape. What's the one thing that can fire up people to violence and lynchings? "they're raping our women and children" - it's been used throughout history to inflame gang violence, usually targeting innocent people.

No get it right you want to believe that one was made up so that you can concentrate on that one and ignore the rest.

You seem to have trouble "getting it right" - I'm saying examine the facts first, apply critical thinking (I'm assuming you are capable of this) and then make your judgements. I already pointed out one claim that was falsified.

The facts are that violent crime has increased as migration has increased. Sex crimes have increased as migration has increased. Child rape has increased as migration has increased. Racist attacks on Jews and Christians have increased as migration has increased. Can you see the common denominator in all this, correct it is migrants. Don't need to inflame peoples feelings when the facts speak for themselves, and in this case as far back as 1990 the people in Ritherham and Rochdale were complaining about the rape of 12 year old girls by muslims. The government action was to arrest those complaining and threaten them with prison.

First off - do you have a reputable source indicating that an increase in those crimes IS occurring and that it IS related to migration specifically?

A reputable source - not one of your hate sites.

Does Immigration Increase Crime?

Spenkuch assembled more-accurate data by comparing two sets of records from 1980 to 2000: nationwide crime statistics from the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting program; and local records from every county in the continental U.S., which listed the percentage of local residents who were immigrants. “From the 1980s onward, the data is really good,” Spenkuch says. “So I thought, let’s get a sample that’s nationally representative by including all these reports for the entire U.S.”


The results of his analysis are clear: “There’s essentially no correlation between immigrants and violent crime,” he asserts. Given some media depictions of immigrants as violent, or associated with human trafficking and the drug trade, this finding may come as a surprise to many, says Spenkuch. “There’s a long perception that immigration increases crime, and when you look at neighborhoods where lots of immigrants live, these are typically not the best neighborhoods. These are violent places. So there’s this anecdotal association [between immigrants and violent crime] that just doesn’t turn out to be true in the data.”
​

Immigration and Crime: Evidence for the UK and Other Countries | The Migration Observatory

Bell et al. (2013) examine local crime patterns in England and Wales from 2002 to 2009 in order to determine whether there is any causal effect of an increase in the foreign-born population on crime. They focus on two large groups of migrants that arrived in the UK over this period. First, asylum seekers arising initially from the dislocations in former Yugoslavia and subsequently from war-torn societies such as Iraq and Afghanistan. Second, the large migrant flows coming from the A8 countries, particularly Poland, since 2004. The research showed that it is possible to derive causal estimates for both migrant groups and found that the share of asylum seekers in the local population was related to a rise in property crime, while a rise in A8 migrants was associated with a fall in property crime. Neither group was associated with statistically significant changes in violent crime. Estimates suggest that a one percentage point increase in the asylum seeker share of the local population is associated with a 1.1% rise in property crime. Since asylum seekers accounted for only around 0.1% of the population, the macro effects were small. A one percentage point increase in the share of the population that was born in the A8 countries leads to 0.4% fall in property crime.

The share of asylum seekers in the local population is related to a 1.1% rise in property crime but no change in violent crime. A rise in A8 migrants as a share of the population is associated with a 0.4% fall in property crime and has no relationship to violent crime


Bell et al. (2013) suggest that the estimated effects for asylum seekers and A8 migrants may be the result of differences in the labour market opportunities of the two groups. The A8 migrants who arrived in the UK came almost entirely for work reasons and have higher employment rates than the UK-born. The motivation of asylum seekers was different, and they are not allowed to work in the UK upon arrival and also have reduced access to welfare benefits. Given the lengthy process involved in deciding asylum applications, this restriction is likely to have increased the relative returns to crime.​

Do migrants cause more crime?

The immigration crime wave is largely imaginary. In fact, the evidence suggests that in overall terms, diverse migrant communities actually lead to lower crime rates. Highly paid migrants are less likely to commit crimes than locals; and all migrants have an additional incentive to stay on the right side of the law because they may risk deportation if arrested.

The real connection is between crime and poverty. This means arrival of some poor migrant groups in a neighbourhood – such as asylum seekers – may lead to a marginal increase in crime. But it is still poverty – rather than any inherent “criminality” – that is the main driver, and it is especially important to recognise that in the case of asylum seekers, such poverty is the result of deliberate government policy 24.

It’s also true that newly arrived migrants can put a strain on police resources, especially if they need help with translators or are more likely to be the perpetrators (or the victims) of new types of crime. But this is a question of resource allocation, which needs to be considered in terms of migrants’ broader fiscal contributions.

In the final analysis, it’s easy to declare that no migrant should commit any crime, and that the best way of achieving this is to only admit the highly-skilled and the highly-paid. But there’s no evidence low-paid migrants are any more likely to commit crimes, and we need them too. The real links we need to pay attention to are the complex long-term links between social integration, poverty and crime. And that’s not just a question about immigrants: it’s a discussion about citizens too.​

 

[Coyote]

Time to do what Israel is doing and give them a good thrashing, then see if they like being treated as they treat others. If the EU had any balls it would garrison the borders and turn back every muslim

But what can the EU do with those Muslims who already have citizenship of the EU states?

The same thing they do with nonMuslims who have citizenship.

There is a precedent among German men indulging in this same sort of behavior where large groups work in concert to molest women of a different ethnicity and religion, and doing so for a principle outlined in their own religion?

Sure, it's called gang rape and it happens all over the world.

Most of the perpetrators happen to be muslims, and it is done as a form of terrorism. But you refuse to see that aspect because it would burst your bubble

Umh no. I don't "refuse" to see it, I only ask for facts and evidence from reputable sources - got a problem with that?

 

[Coyote]

What can I say about it? .

You could always try saying it is wrong.



Jumping in to defend without even a hint that you find it objectionable gives quite the different appearance than were you to denounce it for what it is.

You took my comment completely out of context.

First of all, this is what I was replying to:

Are you a Muslim? What can you say about all that stuff regarding Muslims which has swamped some European countries? I mean what would be a final of the migration crisis and islamophobic hysteria and how high are the odds that Muslims will integrate in European societies?

And second, you snipped my quote - this is the entirety of it, and keep in mind - IT WAS IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE.

What can I say about it? First stick to the truth and try to uncover the facts, rather than rely on hysteria.

As far as integration, that depends on on many factors such as the cultures they come from (which are of many countries) and that of the countries they go to. Some countries are very successful at integrating immigrant populations while others are not so much. For Europe, they are swamped with more than they can handle right now.

Given that, what am I supposed to say "is wrong"? Integration? Uncovering the facts?

What is wrong with uncovering the facts FIRST before rushing to judgement?

Nothing at all was taken out of context. You were asked if you were a Muslim -- presumably, because of your extreme degree of identification with all things Islamic along with your automatic defense thereof -- and asked what you thought of the unfolding of events in Europe. Your only response was to talk about "hysteria".

It absolutely was taken out of context.

The gist of my response was: First stick to the truth and try to uncover the facts, rather than rely on hysteria.

If you rush to judgement, ahead of examining the evidence - you create hysteria and a hell of a lot of unfounded "hoaxes" that get repeated as "facts" that are used to broad brush entire groups.

There are plenty of examples of this historically, the Salem witch trials, for one - where suddenly masses of people were coming forward claiming to be victims of witchcraft, and accusing anyone who seemed odd or annoying of witchcraft.

Another example, more modern day is accusations of child molestation (and how much do you want to bet someone is going to take this and distort it to claim I somehow "excuse" child abuse) - back when such things as Megan's law were being formed to protect children from predators, there were also a lot of unfounded accusations flying about due, in part, to heavy media exposure of child predators, public fear, and some rather dodgy psychiatric methods of trying to determine if a very young child has been molested. The end result was, not unlike the Salem witch trials - you had some legitimate cases, and you had some questionable cases and you had some outright fraudulant cases. I remember two: one, a highschool coach accused by one student, then several students, who eventually recanted and said they had made it up. Another case involved a daycare run by a couple and this one was particularly ugly - they were found innocent, but their lives were ruined (where's there's smoke there's fire sort of thing). Rape and child molestation are particularly ugly crimes - at least in our culture - child rapists aren't even tolerated by other criminals. If a person is innocent - it doesn't matter, because they will be forever tainted. When you broad brush that to an entire ethnic or religious group, it's even uglier. That's why I think it's important to examine the facts, and put them in a proper context. When you don't, you perpetrate hoaxes about groups that get repeated so often they are uncritically accepted as truth.

Look at the ones below - how many of them have you just assumed are truth? I've seem them bandied about here as "facts".

For example...

Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones
FALSE: Paris Under Muslim Siege
Muslims in Japan
Muslim Men Can Have 4 Wives on Welfare in Michigan?
Muslim Men Auctioning off Women in England
Blackout of Muslims Chanting 'Death to America' on Video?
Muslim Demographics
Muslim Government in the U.S.
City in Michigan First to Fully Implement Sharia Law

My response to you had to do with measures you could take to differentiate your own positions from those of the most hardened Islamist. You did not criticize the practice of gang rape. You did not criticize the obvious misogyny involved.

That is a lie.

Rape
Isis' Theology of Rape
84 schools in England show NO white British pupils...
Let's rape each other a little.
Americas Rape Culture
Americas Rape Culture
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Israeli warden charged with rape assault
Worst Places for Women
Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize

etc.

You did not criticize the way men were working in concert to target the women of their new host country. You did not acknowledge the Islamic nature of such behavior. You did not find anything wrong with the racist nature of the attacks. All you did was defend by trying to distract the conversation by trying to portray this behavior as being no different than European behavior.

I want to see facts from reputable sources confirming that it was based on "Islam", that it was "racist" as opposed to cultural misogyny. I'd like to see facts as to how many incidents actually occurred before jumping on the bandwagon. And I've stated that if the law is broken, they should be punished. Refusing to accept your "analysis" is not "defending" anything it's asking for facts not opinion.

You talk about "facts" while indulging in your own assumptions that are so completely inconsistent with established patterns of behavior as to indicate an intent to deny them rather than any actual exploration into the behavior involved.

What "assumptions" specifically? I try to provide sources to support my "assumptions" - where have I erred?

No go areas are rife in the UK, mostly sharia ran muslim enclaves that look like the Warsaw Ghetto

Has been and we have seen the video's and picture's to prove it

Very few and far between, they are against a culture that is similar to their own

They can if they use the right forms

TRUE and it was common with 12 and 13 year old girls 12 years ago

Would not know

All you read is true and the facts support it

If you have a muslim community then they will have a sharia court

Possible as it has happened in the UK.


Over 20 cases in Germany alone since last year, and in each case it has been gangs of muslims involved. that is a fact. In the UK the courts have said that the attacks on white girls were racist terrorism

No go areas are a hoax.

 

[Phoenall]

I have and gave the conclusion of 17 years of living in trepidation of the next bomb or attack. When you face this you might understand how we in the UK have had to walk on eggshells in case we hurt the feelings of the muslims.



The Government Office of national statistics for starters that stated violent crime increased with migration, but here are a few reports

Violent crime jumps 27 per cent in new figures released by the Office for National Statistics

Rapes now at their highest ever level, ONS figures reveal

 

[ESay]

Two young women were encircled by ten foreign teenagers and men, were groped and held back when they tried to flee until a brave citizen came to their help, creating evidence and calling the police. The police searches for more victims. This ironically happened on the "Carnival of Cultures" event in Berlin.

Männergruppe bedrängt Frauen beim Karneval der Kulturen in Berlin

Time to do what Israel is doing and give them a good thrashing, then see if they like being treated as they treat others. If the EU had any balls it would garrison the borders and turn back every muslim

But what can the EU do with those Muslims who already have citizenship of the EU states?

Rescind their status and send them packing on their other passport

Where to send them to? If they are British citizens and have no other passport of if they were born in Britain and never had other citizenship except of British? And what are you ready to propose those countries who may receive these outcasts?

 

[Coyote]

I have and gave the conclusion of 17 years of living in trepidation of the next bomb or attack. When you face this you might understand how we in the UK have had to walk on eggshells in case we hurt the feelings of the muslims.



The Government Office of national statistics for starters that stated violent crime increased with migration, but here are a few reports

Violent crime jumps 27 per cent in new figures released by the Office for National Statistics

Rapes now at their highest ever level, ONS figures reveal

First article makes the following statement (the only part where it mentions immigration):

“The pattern of immigration is part of a cocktail of factors that has led to the increase in the murder figures,” said David Wilson, professor of criminology at Birmingham City University.

“The wider range of tasks that detectives have been asked to do in the last five years, and the decline in detective numbers, will also have an impact – but this will only really become apparent when data on clear-up rates emerge as time goes on.”

A murder squad detective, who declined to be named, said: “We have anecdotal evidence that we’re seeing growing numbers of murders involving migrants, particularly eastern European men. Large numbers of men in this group come here to work … and tend to live in house shares where they do a lot of drinking.

“This can lead to fallings out, and violence, particularly at weekends. We need to do more work on this because it’s only just starting to show up in the figures.” ​

Second article doesn't says anything linking immigrants to increase in violent crime.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

For all the noise about Cologne there havent been any convictions for the alleged crimes on New Years Eve. Six months ago.

 

[Esmeralda]

As far as integration, that depends on on many factors such as the cultures they come from (which are of many countries) and that of the countries they go to.

Let’s say Pakistanis in England and Arabs (Syrians and Iraqis) in Germany.

Some countries are very successful at integrating immigrant populations

What countries do you mean?

There have been Pakistanis in England for most of the last century. I was there 40 years ago and there were plenty at that time. There have been Turks in Austria and Germany for many decades as well. I lived in both countries, and there was not any particular problem with them. It is a problem now because of recent wars in Islamic countries and a lot of immigrants to deal with. When you get people fleeing from war, you get mostly the lower economic people, the least educated. That's why the crime seems to rise. You have a lot of people who are not educated and not sophisticated.